AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2004-12-10, 21:56   Link #221
hunterx
ore wa kanpeki da
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBlack
The plot is so predictable that it is laughable. Sara has been reaffirming that the bird human is going to awake and sing the song of death. Oh well, guess what, the bird human does awake after a couple meaningless battle scenes between valkyries. The bird human wake up and become 18th Angel. Well, it needs a pilot. Sara somehow gets sucked in and is able to synchronize herself to the bird human without any plug suit!!!! (No, the blood type is blue!!! ba ba ba ba) Then, insert a love story. Why must there be a love story???? It has been done before, so let us just recycle it. Eventually, Sara and its beloved eva,,,woops,,,I mean,,,,bird human are then drift in space. The theme, we all know war is bad, so let's have bird human destroy everything
I think you should watch it again because you didn't get it. The two warring factions were looking for the head of the bird human so they could use its awesome powers to destroy each other. They stumble on this mayan island whose inhabitants seem to know a lot more about the bird human then either of them. The Anti-UN forces used deception while the UN forces preferred force to extract this info. As the fighting continues, the prophet starts predicting that the bird human will wake up and destroy everything, she is a prophet after all, but neither side listens. Guided by greed and hate for each other they end up blowing up the island to reveal the missing bird humans head.

Yet it cannot be activated by anyone other than the prophet. As the fighting ensues she loses her lover and activates this angel or whatever you want to call it. It asks a few questions and decides to obliterate the human race. What was the point of the series? love overcomes hate and all that jazz and as far as that goes it told it pretty well. One could say the same thing for macross plus without all the "liberal" overtones we saw in macross zero

If you were expecting some gaint mecha action with flight suits you were surely misled
hunterx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-12-11, 02:50   Link #222
dreamless
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yujinbito
As Radd said on the previous page, we have to think about Macross Zero in context just as I'm sure the production team did while they were making the series. If you think about what happens to the earth a short while later, then it takes on a whole different meaning. It's not that Kawamori decided to tell his 'stupid Greenpeace story' and slap the 'Macross' name onto it in a shameless attempt to trick people into listening to his ebil propaganda. Any feeling of peace has to be balanced out by what we know of destruction, just as what we know of destruction has to be balanced out by what we know of peace. Humanity is "saved" in Macross Zero. And then much of it is destroyed in SDF Macross. No difference anyone makes will ever be permanent. That's what makes multi-installment series like Macross so interesting: the possibility for a dialogue between the different installments and constantly building upon the original idea. Environmentalism in the real world doesn't 'make any sense' either. The world might be scorched by March 2005 for all we know. Needlessly destroying nature to benefit ourselves doesn't 'make any sense' either: We might be history by March 2005. Why bother to feed yourself when you'll only die eventually anyway? Why not massacre a whole race of people? After all, nobody will care or remember that they ever existed 100 years from now. While I understand the logic behind saying that something is stupid because it is futile, it's also possible to say that anything is futile. So why not err on the side of preservation instead of destruction?

Although perhaps an ending reference to the SDF Macross series would have been in order if that continuity was actually the point.
Because we don't know what will happen in the future in our real world, but we know for sure what will happen in the future of the Macross world, we know in the Macross world technology completely triumphs over nature, humanity is saved by cloning technology and terraforming technology.

IF we know the world will be destroyed at March 2005, then yup I'd say environmentalism in the real world doesn't make any sense. That's why some Christians are against environmentalism, since they think they know the future and that the world will end and be remade by God. But I don't know future, so environmentalism in the real world makes sense to me.

So yup, I don't know the future of the real world, and I know the future of the Macross world, that's why environmetalism in Macross seems stupid to me. IF I know the future of the real world, maybe I'll think environmentalism in real world is stupid too. but that's not the case.

Last edited by dreamless; 2004-12-11 at 04:28.
dreamless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-12-11, 16:15   Link #223
Yujinbito
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Because we don't know what will happen in the future in our real world, but we know for sure what will happen in the future of the Macross world, we know in the Macross world technology completely triumphs over nature, humanity is saved by cloning technology and terraforming technology.
But we do know that for all the best efforts of humans in the past, many many many people have failed despite their best efforts. The Communists wanted a society that acknowledged every person as a human being and treated them equally; people gave their lives to overthrow the Czarist government and to install the Communist government. And what happened to Russia? Some of the most horrific leaders in recent history. From what I understand, Stalinist Russia was probably no better than the rule of the Nazis; the only thing is that they kept it inside of Russia so nobody cared. In the end, the Communist government was, at certain points anyway, probably worse than the Czarist government that it replaced.

As far as I am concerned, the fact that Macross is set in the future means very little. Kawamori isn't trying to predict the future for us, he's trying to tell us a story about humanity. And in this case that story involves people risking their whole lives for doomed causes. Because we are so inundated with movies and media now, there is no idea that is shocking to us. How many of you went insane with grief when the earth was destroyed at the beginning of SDF Macross? Not one, would be my guess. Because for all the fact that we don't want our own world to die, the earth in the Macross universe meant nothing to us at the time. We knew nothing about the people who lived there, what they did, etc. Now we have a little bit of backstory that, theoretically anyway, will add to the meaning of the Macross series that take place after it.

I also disagree that 'technology triumphs over nature'. I would say that man's use of technology balances itself out. Technology in conjunction with human nature drove man to the brink of destruction, and and technololgy in conjunction with another part of human nature brought him back from it. That's the whole dialogue in Macross, right? The pull between the part of us that leads to destruction and the part of us that leads to preservation and culture. But we know that the humans in SDF Macross were devastated when the earth was destroyed. And for all the technology they had, it was nature that brought forth those first few dandelions that Hikaru saw when he was flying patrol, not technology. In that sense, nature triumphs over technology.
Yujinbito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-12-11, 16:46   Link #224
dreamless
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yujinbito
But we do know that for all the best efforts of humans in the past, many many many people have failed despite their best efforts. The Communists wanted a society that acknowledged every person as a human being and treated them equally; people gave their lives to overthrow the Czarist government and to install the Communist government. And what happened to Russia? Some of the most horrific leaders in recent history. From what I understand, Stalinist Russia was probably no better than the rule of the Nazis; the only thing is that they kept it inside of Russia so nobody cared. In the end, the Communist government was, at certain points anyway, probably worse than the Czarist government that it replaced.

As far as I am concerned, the fact that Macross is set in the future means very little. Kawamori isn't trying to predict the future for us, he's trying to tell us a story about humanity. And in this case that story involves people risking their whole lives for doomed causes. Because we are so inundated with movies and media now, there is no idea that is shocking to us. How many of you went insane with grief when the earth was destroyed at the beginning of SDF Macross? Not one, would be my guess. Because for all the fact that we don't want our own world to die, the earth in the Macross universe meant nothing to us at the time. We knew nothing about the people who lived there, what they did, etc. Now we have a little bit of backstory that, theoretically anyway, will add to the meaning of the Macross series that take place after it.

I also disagree that 'technology triumphs over nature'. I would say that man's use of technology balances itself out. Technology in conjunction with human nature drove man to the brink of destruction, and and technololgy in conjunction with another part of human nature brought him back from it. That's the whole dialogue in Macross, right? The pull between the part of us that leads to destruction and the part of us that leads to preservation and culture. But we know that the humans in SDF Macross were devastated when the earth was destroyed. And for all the technology they had, it was nature that brought forth those first few dandelions that Hikaru saw when he was flying patrol, not technology. In that sense, nature triumphs over technology.
I don't know what you are trying to say, I never said Macross showed the future of the real world, or Macross is a prediction of our future, have you really read my whole post? I mean I know the future of the Macross world after Macross Zero, I know it's going to be totally destroyed, that's why I think the environmentalism in Macross Zero sounds stupid. And I don't know the future of our world, and IF I know our world will be destroyed March 2005, I'll agree that environmentalism doesn't make sense in the real world now.

About Communism or whatever, I don't have the slightest idea of what it has to do with this discussion.

For your interpretation of the message of the entire Macross series, that's also totally irrelevant to this discussion of whether environmentalism in Macross Zero sounds stupid or not. Although I'd say in Macross world (NOT our real world), it's technology that drives humans to the brink of extinction, it's technology that makes the Earth inhabitable by humans again, and it's technology that saves humanity from certain extinction. So technology triumphs over nature as far as human survival is concerned, because without technology humans will surely go extinct. It's the use of technology that destroys the environment and it's the use of technology that restores it. and no I'm not talking about "human nature" (anyway Zentraedi invasion has nothing to do with human nature), I'm talking about "nature" as in environmentalism. But anyway as far as I see this has nothing to do with whether environmentalism in Macross Zero sounds stupid or not.
dreamless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-12-11, 17:54   Link #225
Yujinbito
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Ok, Ok. Let me try again. What my post had to do with environmentalism in Macross Zero is this: If you think about it as a part of the story, rather than as a pre-packaged philosophy bundle, it adds a specific detail to the entirety of the Macross story. The destruction of earth in SDF Macross means a lot more if we know that, not too many years ago, all of these sacrifices were made to save the earth. Individual characters might come to the conclusion that nature should be saved. The Mayan people have a long history of trying to live in harmony with nature. But the things that people learn, and the culture of an ancient race, mean nothing in the long run because it's all destroyed anyway. The drastic change that occurs during and after the Zentradi war are more meaningful if we know about the people who lived in the world before it was destroyed. Just like if you hear that a house has burned down and everyone inside is dead, you might think it's sad that such things happen or not think anything about it at all. But if you knew the people who lived in that house then it would mean a lot more to you.

'Because we know the earth is destroyed, why bother to have the environmentalism theme in Macross Zero?' I say: have it there because it adds more detail to the story. The point of the 'Communism' example is that it is a common thing in human history for people to make massive sacrifices for goals that utterly fail. So I am looking at Macross as Kawamori's attempt to tell a story about humanity, which sometimes includes massive sacrifices that, in the end, meant nothing. A story can be interesting without its characters succeeding.



As for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
And I don't know the future of our world, and IF I know our world will be destroyed March 2005, I'll agree that environmentalism doesn't make sense in the real world now.
Before I say what I want to say, I want to make clear that I intend this as a question to consider and am not trying to refute your acceptance of current environmentalism.

By that logic, you should stop eating and drinking water. You know that you are going to die. So why make the effort? In the end your life won't be preserved. It's a fruitless endeavor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
For your interpretation of the message of the entire Macross series, that's also totally irrelevant to this discussion of whether environmentalism in Macross Zero sounds stupid or not.
That's true. But since this thread is called "Macross Zero Discussion Thread" and not "The Stupidity of Environmentalism in Macross Zero Thread" I decided to expand the conversation in another direction in response to something you said that I thought might be an interesting topic for discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Although I'd say in Macross world (NOT our real world), it's technology that drives humans to the brink of extinction, it's technology that makes the Earth inhabitable by humans again, and it's technology that saves humanity from certain extinction. So technology triumphs over nature as far as human survival is concerned, because without technology humans will surely go extinct. It's the use of technology that destroys the environment and it's the use of technology that restores it.
You're right, it is technology that is directly responsible for man's survival. But I still think that the environment survives on its own. Even if terraform technology is used, it only speeds up the process of making the earth more habitable for humanity. It is not the miraculous thing that saves all the plants and animals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
and no I'm not talking about "human nature" (anyway Zentraedi invasion has nothing to do with human nature), I'm talking about "nature" as in environmentalism. But anyway as far as I see this has nothing to do with whether environmentalism in Macross Zero sounds stupid or not.
I know that 'nature' in this topic did not originally mean 'human nature.' I brought in human nature because it is directly related to the technology discussion - technology without man wouldn't exist and wouldn't do anything. Therefore I link technology and its uses, consequences, and benefits to human nature because human nature defines the role of technology. I would disagree, though, that the Zentradi invasion has nothing to do with human nature; how, then, do you explain the thematic relevance of the gigantic deal made out of the fact that humans and Zentradi are genetically extremely similar? Or the fact that the Zentradi are deeply moved by human culture? Zentradi behave exactly like humans, apart from the cultural difference of having been bred purely for war.

Hmm.. are those explanations any better than the previous post?
Yujinbito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-12-11, 18:17   Link #226
elniro
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London, UK!!
Age: 27
Send a message via MSN to elniro
Just saw this yesterday, excellent anime, much better than macross plus
elniro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-12-12, 02:09   Link #227
dreamless
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yujinbito
By that logic, you should stop eating and drinking water. You know that you are going to die. So why make the effort? In the end your life won't be preserved. It's a fruitless endeavor.
Why not? If I know I'm going to die in March 2005 with the entire world, then all the more reason to enjoy what little time is left of my life, so I'll spend all my money eating the best food and drink the best drinks and enjoy every last moments of the world before it goes boom

Quote:
how, then, do you explain the thematic relevance of the gigantic deal made out of the fact that humans and Zentradi are genetically extremely similar? Or the fact that the Zentradi are deeply moved by human culture? Zentradi behave exactly like humans, apart from the cultural difference of having been bred purely for war.
because both species are engineered by Protoculture, and thus both are technological products of Protoculture?
dreamless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-12-12, 04:38   Link #228
Yujinbito
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Why not? If I know I'm going to die in March 2005 with the entire world, then all the more reason to enjoy what little time is left of my life, so I'll spend all my money eating the best food and drink the best drinks and enjoy every last moments of the world before it goes boom
Fair enough. But I meant that, no matter what you do, some day you will die (so will I, so will everyone else) not because the world is going to miraculously explode in March 2005 but simply because we'll grow old and die. And if knowing something is going to end makes doing anything to preserve it useless, then also knowing that you are going to die should (logically.. although logic is pretty stupid sometimes) dictate that there is no point in eating to keep yourself alive now because you're just going to die someday anyway. We know that the earth will be destroyed shortly after Macross Zero, but the characters don't. So the story for Macross Zero becomes the sacrifices and effort that they make which might on its own be inspiring but in the larger context means absolutely nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
because both species are engineered by Protoculture, and thus both are technological products of Protoculture?
Yeah. But I mean, in terms of the themes of the story and not just the sci-fi universe that they made up for it. I would say that the similarity between humans and Zentradi is supposed, thematically, to bring their conflict around to a place where it can still be relevant to human conflict and relationships. If you have humans versus the aliens from the Alien movies, then it's kind of impossible to take their problems with each other allegorically as a discussion about how we deal with each other. On the other hand, with the Zentradi and humanity being so closely linked genetically, we can look at the Zentradi as people and, in a way, the Humans vs. Zentradi conflict becomes a way of discussing human conflicts. And the problems that the Zentradi have assimilating into human culture can be then more of a story about how difficult it is to keep people content and have a society where everyone is accounted for and respected. As opposed to "Argh. Stupid dumb big aliens don't understand why it's important to lift boxes for mankind's benefit. Argh." In my opinion, the Zentradi = almost human aspect of the story was intended to a) imply that the Zentradi are not just the alien bad guys, but also a representation of the aggressive aspect of humanity and b) move on to discussing the problems of civilization, cooperation, etc. If they were just aliens that were inherently completely different than humanity then the story wouldn't be any more complex than Sigourney Weaver fighting the Aliens: "We don't understand them and they want to destroy us. Kill, kill. Nyargh!"

Hmm.. I'm starting to think that I communicate through irrelevant illustrative examples too often.
Yujinbito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-12-30, 19:45   Link #229
LK_LoA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Nice anime, a good balance of action/charactersation/story until the ep4 & 5.

Dislikes:
Practically every new character is taken out of the picture.
The poor resolution with the 2 vs 2 dogfight duel.
Dues ex machina ending

Like:
Thrust-vectoring!
I actually prefered it more with the VFs stay in plane mode.
The 4-cannon MAC
Super VF-0, they showcased the Armoured VF-0 so I was expected it.

Nice lead-up but kind of sappy ending. Mainly because I didn't feel that Shin & Sara as a couple was as believable as Roy & Alice.
LK_LoA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-17, 01:17   Link #230
stelok
I My Me Strawberry Eggs
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Philippines
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to stelok Send a message via AIM to stelok Send a message via MSN to stelok Send a message via Yahoo to stelok
Problem with Macross Zero fansub translations

In the AnimeOne & ANBU fansub hosted by Animesuki, Shin Kudou is referred to as Lieutenant.



But in the Anime-Fansubs & Animefactory's fansub also hosted by Animesuki, Mao refers to Kudou as Ensign.




Both those two separate fansubs refer to Focker as a Major, which is an Air Force rank, not a navy rank. So if these translations are accurate, what is an Air Force major doing out above the sea? Isn't the sea supposed to be the territory of the naval air forces? Many national navies/navys do have their own air forces. The Unification navy may have their own air force as well. (That's only rhetorical question, which I'm using as an example of mistranslating. Soluzar had answered that question in other forum.

I wonder what Japanese ranks, which the fansubbers have translated into english, are? Since I am deaf, I don't know what Japanese titles those characters are using in the raw Japanese. So anyone please give me the Japanese military ranks, that the fansubbers equated rather than translated?

One should know that one has to properly equate Japanese military ranks with their U.S. military equivalents.
Ensign is a naval rank. Lieutenant is both an Air Force and Navy rank, although Lieutenant is a higher rank than Ensign.

U.S. Navy----------------------U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force and U.S. Marine Corps
Ensign------------------------- Second lieutenant
Lieutenant (j.g)-------------- First Lieutenant
Lieutenant-------------------- Captain
Lieutenant Commander------ Major
Commander------------------ Lieutenant-colonel
Captain------------------------ Colonel
Rear Admiral (lower) --------- Brigadier General
Rear Admiral (upper)---------- Major General
Vice Admiral-------------------- Lieutenant-General
Admiral------------------------ General

U.S. Navy: http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...id=65&sid=1287

U.S. Air Force: http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...id=65&sid=1262



Imperial Japanese Army (1931-1945): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=1353

Japan Self-Defense Force (present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...id=150&sid=876

Imperial Japanese Navy: http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=1357

Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=2001

Japan Air Defense Force (present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...id=150&sid=872

Last edited by stelok; 2006-02-17 at 01:45.
stelok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-17, 01:59   Link #231
Sylf
翻訳家わなびぃ
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 40
Send a message via MSN to Sylf Send a message via Yahoo to Sylf
I haven't looked much in to details on the subject,
but the title translations of those ranks in Japanese SDF don't match the ones shown on this Japanese wikipedia page.

As far as I know, there is no Navy equivellant in Japanese SDF system. The only 3 divisions are JASDF (air), JMSDF (maritime), and JGSDF (ground).

And what was Kudo's rank exactly? Shoui? Shousa? Either way, there's no such rank in JSDF, so trying to match his title in to JSDF rank is a moot act. From there on, the best the translator can do is ... well, the best guess.

So, my point up so far: There's no hard-set rules how forces of armed defense should be grouped. Trying to match different forces's equivellance between different countries are sometimes impossible. Same goes for ranks. Sometimes, you just cannot be absolute with these things.

============================

Also, majority of fansubbers aren't as well-versed in military knowledge as you are. So what they can do is research within certain limit. Macross Zero episode 3 came out over 2.5 years ago. 2.5 years is enough time for enough people to create more websites than we can possibly imagine. That means we had much less resources we could rely on back then.

Heh... trying to pick on translation differences on something that old seems very pointless thing to me.

Last edited by Sylf; 2006-02-17 at 02:11.
Sylf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-17, 04:35   Link #232
stelok
I My Me Strawberry Eggs
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Philippines
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to stelok Send a message via AIM to stelok Send a message via MSN to stelok Send a message via Yahoo to stelok
You only researched on post-World War II Japanese military, but you have overlooked the former Imperial Japanese military rank structure from 1931-1945. You should have gone to the links to the former Imperial Japanese Army and Navy in my first post and read the info.

So Kudou's rank is shoui? And then Shousa must be Focker's rank. Both the Japan's Imperial Navy and Imperial Army have the same rank structure as each other, unlike the Japan ground, maritime and air Self-defense Forces.

shoui is equivalent to both ensign and second lieutenant. Chuui is equated to both navy lieutenant (j.g) and army first lieutenant. Taii is translated to both navy lieutenant and army captain. Shousa means both lieutenant commander and major. Chuusa equates to both navy commander and army lieutenant colonel. EDIT: Taisa is both Navy Captain and Army Colonel.

That explains why the navy pilot Fuchida is referred to as "colonel" in the Pearl Harbor movie and is also referred to as "commander" in the movie called Tora! Tora! Tora!


Imperial Japanese Navy rank insignia (1931-1945): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=1357

Imperial Japanese Army rank insignia (1931-1945): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=1353

Look at both Army and Navy websites and compare the rank systems of the Japanese Imperial Navy and Army.

Yes, I know these websites use "sho i", "chu i", "sho sa" without the letter "u" but that's sometimes how they are translated as right as they can be. For example we often hear the name "Keitaro" in the Love Hina anime while"keitarou" in Love Hina manga. Tokyopop uses "Ichiro" in the Sakura Wars manga while the same name is listed as "Ichirou" in Sakura Wars anime on AXN-Asia channel. We hear often "kouhai" and "kohai", which are the same word but with a different spelling. EDIT: The name Kudou can also be said as Kudo.

The question is why are Macross producers using the rank system of the extinct Imperial Japanese military from 1931-1945 instead of the rank system of the post-WWII Japan Self-Defense forces?

EDIT: But even so, the fansubbers had to know that Focker and Kudou are serving aboard on an aircraft carrier ship which means they are both in the Navy.

Japan Self-Defense Force rank insignia (present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...id=150&sid=876

Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force rank insignia (present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=2001

Japan Air Defense Force rank insignia(present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...id=150&sid=872


If you want to research for military rank structure and insignia, then go to
http://uniforminsignia.net/ , not Wikipedia.org.

EDIT: perhaps, then the Macross Zero fansubbers should use Royal British air force ranks instead of U.S. military ranks in their translation. I can imagine Squadron Leader Focker and Pilot Officer Shin Kudou. But I know these Macross Zero fansubs are made by Americans. Besides, not many people outside Britain, Canada, Australia, India, Pakistan and other former British colonies are aware of the rank structures of the Royal army, Navy and Air Force.


O stands for officer and E stands for enlistee.

Royal British Air Force-----------U.S. Air Force
(O-1) Pilot Officer---------------Second Lieutenant
(O-2) Flying Officer--------------First Lieutenant
(O-3) Flight Lieutenant---------Captain
(O-4) Squadron Leader--------Major
(O-5) Wing Commander-------Lieutenant colonel
(O-6) Group Captain------------Colonel
(O-7) Air Commodore-----------Brigadier General
(O-8) Vice Marshal--------------Major General
(O-9) Marshal--------------------Lieutenant General
(O-10) Chief Marshal-----------General

U.K. Royal Air Force rank system: http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=133&sid=1216

Last edited by stelok; 2006-02-17 at 05:10.
stelok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-10-28, 16:05   Link #233
psycho bolt
Cowmaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Just watched this anime. It started off strong, yet later became lacking. I thought it was pretty decent until it reached the end. 7/10

If I were to compare Macross Plus and Macross Zero's ending, I'm meh with both of them.
psycho bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-15, 10:22   Link #234
Tabris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 26
I just got around to watching all of Macross Zero today.

I really enjoyed it, though the ending seemed somewhat bittersweet.

Also, Mao > Sara :3
Tabris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-16, 12:51   Link #235
squaresphere
Macross Lifer!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
At this point i'm wondering if the ending of macross zero will have any baring on Macross F.
squaresphere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-19, 14:33   Link #236
wingzero_2000
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelok View Post
You only researched on post-World War II Japanese military, but you have overlooked the former Imperial Japanese military rank structure from 1931-1945. You should have gone to the links to the former Imperial Japanese Army and Navy in my first post and read the info.

So Kudou's rank is shoui? And then Shousa must be Focker's rank. Both the Japan's Imperial Navy and Imperial Army have the same rank structure as each other, unlike the Japan ground, maritime and air Self-defense Forces.

shoui is equivalent to both ensign and second lieutenant. Chuui is equated to both navy lieutenant (j.g) and army first lieutenant. Taii is translated to both navy lieutenant and army captain. Shousa means both lieutenant commander and major. Chuusa equates to both navy commander and army lieutenant colonel. EDIT: Taisa is both Navy Captain and Army Colonel.

That explains why the navy pilot Fuchida is referred to as "colonel" in the Pearl Harbor movie and is also referred to as "commander" in the movie called Tora! Tora! Tora!


Imperial Japanese Navy rank insignia (1931-1945): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=1357

Imperial Japanese Army rank insignia (1931-1945): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=1353

Look at both Army and Navy websites and compare the rank systems of the Japanese Imperial Navy and Army.

Yes, I know these websites use "sho i", "chu i", "sho sa" without the letter "u" but that's sometimes how they are translated as right as they can be. For example we often hear the name "Keitaro" in the Love Hina anime while"keitarou" in Love Hina manga. Tokyopop uses "Ichiro" in the Sakura Wars manga while the same name is listed as "Ichirou" in Sakura Wars anime on AXN-Asia channel. We hear often "kouhai" and "kohai", which are the same word but with a different spelling. EDIT: The name Kudou can also be said as Kudo.

The question is why are Macross producers using the rank system of the extinct Imperial Japanese military from 1931-1945 instead of the rank system of the post-WWII Japan Self-Defense forces?

EDIT: But even so, the fansubbers had to know that Focker and Kudou are serving aboard on an aircraft carrier ship which means they are both in the Navy.

Japan Self-Defense Force rank insignia (present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...id=150&sid=876

Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force rank insignia (present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=150&sid=2001

Japan Air Defense Force rank insignia(present): http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...id=150&sid=872


If you want to research for military rank structure and insignia, then go to
http://uniforminsignia.net/ , not Wikipedia.org.

EDIT: perhaps, then the Macross Zero fansubbers should use Royal British air force ranks instead of U.S. military ranks in their translation. I can imagine Squadron Leader Focker and Pilot Officer Shin Kudou. But I know these Macross Zero fansubs are made by Americans. Besides, not many people outside Britain, Canada, Australia, India, Pakistan and other former British colonies are aware of the rank structures of the Royal army, Navy and Air Force.


O stands for officer and E stands for enlistee.

Royal British Air Force-----------U.S. Air Force
(O-1) Pilot Officer---------------Second Lieutenant
(O-2) Flying Officer--------------First Lieutenant
(O-3) Flight Lieutenant---------Captain
(O-4) Squadron Leader--------Major
(O-5) Wing Commander-------Lieutenant colonel
(O-6) Group Captain------------Colonel
(O-7) Air Commodore-----------Brigadier General
(O-8) Vice Marshal--------------Major General
(O-9) Marshal--------------------Lieutenant General
(O-10) Chief Marshal-----------General

U.K. Royal Air Force rank system: http://uniforminsignia.net/index.php...d=133&sid=1216

Awesome research, nicely done. Why the British always have to be different?
wingzero_2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-19, 14:43   Link #237
Onizuka-GTO
Holy Beast ~Wuff!~
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Leeds, UK
Age: 31
Send a message via MSN to Onizuka-GTO Send a message via Skype™ to Onizuka-GTO
Quote:
Originally Posted by elniro View Post
Just saw this yesterday, excellent anime, much better than macross plus
Dunno how you came to that conclusion, they are both different.

both are great in my eyes.
__________________
Onizuka-GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-16, 06:46   Link #238
Sander RX
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Such a nice OVA...with such a dissapointing final.
Nora's death sucked(should have been killed off by Shinn),DDs death sucked(had to be killed by Roy Focker) ,magic crap sucked,many things about this Ep 5 sucked. And this after awesome 4 episodes?
Its all you fault AFOS!!!Damn you bird-man!Damn youuuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sander RX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-02, 11:57   Link #239
ZippyDSM
Incoherance is my friend!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
God I hate this parallel story..I don't care if Roy "I'll sleep with anything female" Focker is in it, it skirts around the Macross landing and focus on some obscure story thing....uuhhhggggggggg....frontier is suppose to shed some light on it but good lord it feels as if its adding unneeded plot points....


If Sara and shin didn't get folded off the earth then the whole thing is a travesty to the Macross franchise....


On another note Macross 2 the movie was better....even if it was a mix of southern cross and macross...hell you can even call it a robotech film since its not cannon to the main macross story and its still better.....


Now with the ranting out of the way, why they are using a new plot fulcrum to end humanity's warring when they have a big ass ship in the middle of the sea to play with I do not know...sure there are plenty of alien races and the universe to play with story wise but....bbllaahhhhhhh...

I'l like to see a 13 ep season or maybe a full 26 ep season to flush..er...flesh this thing out, have the bridman thing run in a kind of parallel to the UN coming around macross, then with other events we can ping back and froth ending it with the earth coming together, I mean there are good war story's and UN politic story's to hash out here, for me macross is as much story and character relations as it is mech action.

Anyone have a clue what Frontier is going to do with "zero" in ep 10?

edit
one final jaby jab would like to see a OVA finish up macross itself as well, well not a bad cliffhanger a 3-6 ep ova to get it near where 7 starts would not be a bad thing.

Someone mentioned plus....this is what I think abotu plus a AI construct of a singer gains control over a city/fighters to steal away the singers ex pilot lover...... gggaaaaaaaa it burns!

Last edited by ZippyDSM; 2008-06-02 at 12:07.
ZippyDSM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-02, 13:18   Link #240
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
You know why the UN wasn't using the big ship at New South Antaria?

They're still refurbishing a piece of junk!

Was it supposed to shoot that alien fleet unprovoked and we're not firing it?

Oops there goes our anti-gravity generators!

What our fold engine disappeared?!

Oh great we also brought the entire Island, the two warships with us!

Goes to show Macross humans don't know much of alien technology then.

Also it is not a parallel story it is a prequel showing an incident during the unification war.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.