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Old 2008-06-01, 10:32   Link #1981
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
So your saying archer would've kick Berserker ** if his master isn't Illya??

BTW can archer traced enkidu? your saying it as if he can use them.
If Berserker's master is any other master in the 5th HG war then that pair will be gone from the very beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
Since Eknidu is an object and tracing can reproduce any object then a sufficiently empowered mage could trace Eknidu. But that mage would pay the full mana cost, whatever that cost happened to be. Same for Archer, he'd have to pay something like 50 times the normal cost of summoning a sword NP.
It's 3 times.

Quote:
Excalibur probably won't completely nuke Archer's mana. He has about as much mana as Saber and it takes up something like 2/3rd her total, so if he's on full it probably won't kill him. Also UBW takes up almost no mana in the scheme of things, Archer uses it when he's almost tapped out after his fight with Lancer and then he sticks around for two more days.
Nope. Archer said he'll disappear in the UBW route himself. Tracing Excalibur is relatively no work, but unleashing it will have his mana sucked dry.

Last edited by iamandragon; 2008-06-01 at 15:44.
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Old 2008-06-01, 18:35   Link #1982
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Quote:
It's 3 times.
I assumed that's shields only, since they're technically a weapon it sort of comes under his specialty.
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Old 2008-06-01, 19:24   Link #1983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Diary? Directory? Don't think we even have one...
Post 1965 has reference to a diary/interview.
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Old 2008-06-02, 10:34   Link #1984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
I assumed that's shields only, since they're technically a weapon it sort of comes under his specialty.
Shirou's specialty is swords--anything other than swords will take 3 to 6(?) times the mana cost compared to swords.
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Old 2008-06-03, 02:41   Link #1985
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Not to belabour the point, but it's mentioned that tracing a NP would kill most mortals outright. He'd have to have more efficiency than just 3 to 6 times to really be able to pull off several sequential tracings. Of course it's never revealed what they can do in mathematical terms, but still...
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Old 2008-06-03, 06:09   Link #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Shirou's specialty is swords--anything other than swords will take 3 to 6(?) times the mana cost compared to swords.
I thought his specialty is blade type weapons like spear and halberd.
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Old 2008-06-03, 07:54   Link #1987
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It's 'swords', but swords in Japanese sense not in Chinese sense, so anything with a hilt and is sharp in one end is a sword to them. Spears and halberds...I'm not sure about them, though I think it would not be swords in Shirou's sense?
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Old 2008-06-07, 04:03   Link #1988
Blade_Lord
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I need to confirm something.
His Reality marble is Unlimited Blade Works and not Unlimited Sword Works....sure he doesn't materialize anything perfect other than sword but he never try to project a spear or an axe so we cannot assume his specialty is sword, it might be "blade"

Why is people calling Enuma Elish a sword, I don't think you can cut peeps with it, it's more like a rotating staff or something.
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Old 2008-06-07, 04:33   Link #1989
rastilin
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Quote:
His Reality marble is Unlimited Blade Works and not Unlimited Sword Works....sure he doesn't materialize anything perfect other than sword but he never try to project a spear or an axe so we cannot assume his specialty is sword, it might be "blade"
In UBW one of the weapons that Archer fires with "Gradiation Air" is a spear. So we know that he can create spears. More to the point, we know it's swords because Rin says so in Fate.

Quote:
Why is people calling Enuma Elish a sword, I don't think you can cut peeps with it, it's more like a rotating staff or something.
The in-game encyclopedia calls it a sword.
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Old 2008-06-07, 05:57   Link #1990
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Quote:
In UBW one of the weapons that Archer fires with "Gradiation Air" is a spear. So we know that he can create spears. More to the point, we know it's swords because Rin says so in Fate.
Can you quote what did Rin said? Also since Rin knows little about archer in fate route can we believe her assumption or deduction is correct?
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Old 2008-06-07, 07:38   Link #1991
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I don't think we have enough information, there's simply too many contradictions. Either way would probably be acceptable.
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Old 2008-06-07, 08:04   Link #1992
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I run FSN in a Virtualbox VM and I can't get it working again till Ubuntu releases the drivers it needs that work with the latest updates. So no, I can't do the lines right now, sorry. That and I'm studying, if I start Fate up now, I won't get anything done till 2am.

Quote:
Can you quote what did Rin said? Also since Rin knows little about archer in fate route can we believe her assumption or deduction is correct?
Rin said something like "Your aspect must be swords", she says it to Shirou by the way; Archer's aspect isn't likely to have changed. So I'm assuming it's swords as well.

By the way, it's a burning question, have you player UBW yet?
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Old 2008-06-07, 21:16   Link #1993
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No I don't.

Quote:
Rin said something like "Your aspect must be swords", she says it to Shirou by the way; Archer's aspect isn't likely to have changed. So I'm assuming it's swords as well.
She only said that because he saw shirou manage to project sword very well. I don't think Shirou project a spear or a halberd in the fate route....

Quote:
In UBW one of the weapons that Archer fires with "Gradiation Air" is a spear. So we know that he can create spears. More to the point, we know it's swords because Rin says so in Fate.
If the spear takes 3-6 times the mana use to project the spear he shouldn't trace the spear he should trace another sword because either way the job gets done. Assuming archer's or shirou's ability is a sword.
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Old 2008-06-07, 23:45   Link #1994
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We assume that Shirou's proficiency is swords because of the hill of swords he finds himself in during his dream sequences in the UBW route and because Rin states so. Also, this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansho
My body is made out of swords. - 体は剣で出来ている - Karada wa tsurugi de dekiteiru
My blood is of iron and my heart of glass - 血潮は鉄で心は硝子 - Chishio wa tetsu de, kokoro wa garasu
I survived through countless battles - 幾たびの戦場を越えて不敗 - Ikutabi no senjou wo koete fuhai
Not even once retreating, - ただの一度の敗走もなく、 - Tada ichido no haisou mo naku
Not even once victorious - ただの一度の勝利もなし - Tada ichido no shouri mo nashi,
The bearer lies here alone - 担い手はここに孤り。 - Ninai te wa koko ni hitori.
Forging iron on the hill of swords. - 剣の丘で鉄を鍛つ - Tsurugi no oka de tetsu wo utsu
But my life needs no meaning. - ならば、わが生涯に意味は不要ず - Naraba, waga shougai ni imi wa irazu
This body was made out of limitless swords. - この体は、無限の剣で出来ていた - Kono karada wa, mugen no tsurugi de dekiteita

That's Shirou one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansho
Patch translation is the original english text by TYPE-MOON.
In japanese, the incantation appears in english as always, but along with additional japanese text in furigana. And that furigana says that.
When he says "Patch translation", he's referring to the English chant starting with, "I am the bone of my sword."

Edit: Oh, that reminds me. "I am the bone of my sword." kind of says his proficiency right there. o__o
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Old 2008-06-08, 07:11   Link #1995
iamandragon
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Proficiency...can you define a little more what do you mean by this word?
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Old 2008-06-08, 11:56   Link #1996
Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Proficiency...can you define a little more what do you mean by this word?
Basically knowing how to use something properly.

i.e: knowing how to use a particular sword. The correct way to hold/swing/defend with it. Might not be an expert at it, but you at least know how to use it correctly.
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Old 2008-06-08, 12:55   Link #1997
OceanBlue
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I'll change what I said then. I meant his specialty. He/His body specializes in the creation of swords. At least, that's what I think.
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Old 2008-06-08, 15:51   Link #1998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
I'll change what I said then. I meant his specialty. He/His body specializes in the creation of swords. At least, that's what I think.
The will be more correct. If you have read Kara no Kyoukai, it is said that everyone has their own 'origin', some are extremely close to their origin(like Shiki in it), while some far. Shirou, in this case, has origin of 'swords' and is quite close to it, so he is able to do anything related with swords with much less effort than everyone else.
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Old 2008-06-09, 01:56   Link #1999
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Quote:
The will be more correct. If you have read Kara no Kyoukai, it is said that everyone has their own 'origin', some are extremely close to their origin(like Shiki in it), while some far. Shirou, in this case, has origin of 'swords' and is quite close to it, so he is able to do anything related with swords with much less effort than everyone else.
So what's shiki's origin? And can the origin of one person be the same to another?(Please please please don't use a horrible metaphor.)
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Old 2008-06-09, 06:53   Link #2000
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Well of course people can share origin. Also, one's origin can also be of another people, for example, another person called...Yukito can be his origin sprung from Shirou, but everyone's origin of origin will be from sprung Araya and for Yukito, his origin is also 'swords'.
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