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Old 2008-06-03, 19:02   Link #1041
Xellos-_^
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we will have to wait and see but if Obama needs to win one of the southern states to win. He will lose.
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Old 2008-06-03, 19:38   Link #1042
bayoab
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To show how messed up this Clinton VP thing is... MSNBC is talking about it right now.

Obama people do not want her. They are going to offer it to her, provided she does not take it and he does not make the offer to another woman.

On the flip side Clinton does not want it and is just offering to be it nicely. Clinton's backers do not really want her in the VP slot.

This is all going to be one huge play that they will put on.
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Old 2008-06-03, 19:43   Link #1043
Xellos-_^
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it is politics what do you expect?
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Old 2008-06-03, 19:46   Link #1044
Neki Ecko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
we will have to wait and see but if Obama needs to win one of the southern states to win. He will lose.
and I think I know one southern state will do the trick for him and it is......


Georgia with 15 Elect. Votes (1 of the Big 12 States)

There is alot of new voters in GA and alot of Demo votes as well. I think GA will turn from Red State into a Battleground state and a good chance for him to win it.
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Old 2008-06-03, 20:29   Link #1045
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
To show how messed up this Clinton VP thing is... MSNBC is talking about it right now.

Obama people do not want her. They are going to offer it to her, provided she does not take it and he does not make the offer to another woman.

On the flip side Clinton does not want it and is just offering to be it nicely. Clinton's backers do not really want her in the VP slot.

This is all going to be one huge play that they will put on.
Bayoab has some of the subtleties well described here...

For some reason, the novel Dune (circles within circles), some of Shakespeare (diabolical intrigue), and a few other Grand Plays come to mind.

Keeps the sheeple engaged, ya know. I could foresee her as something like Secretary of State though I suspect she'll relish the commanding position her influence will give her in the Senate more.
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Old 2008-06-03, 20:33   Link #1046
Kang Seung Jae
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The whole situation is looking like a K/J-Drama.
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Old 2008-06-03, 22:15   Link #1047
TinyRedLeaf
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It's official, as of Jun 4, 02:40GMT (Jun 3, 22:40EDT).

Obama wins Democratic nomination

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Jun 4, 08): Barack Obama captured the Democratic presidential nomination on Tuesday, capping a rapid rise from political obscurity to become the first black to lead a major U.S. party into a race for the White House.

Rival Hillary Clinton, a former first lady who entered the race 17 months ago as a heavy favorite, did not concede to Mr Obama and said she would consult with party leaders and supporters to determine her next move.

A surge of support from uncommitted delegates helped give Mr Obama the 2,118 votes he needed to clinch the nomination and defeat Mrs Clinton.

"Tonight, we mark the end of one historic journey with the beginning of another," Mr Obama told a cheering victory celebration in St. Paul, Minnesota, at the site of the Republican convention in September. "Tonight, I can stand before you and say that I will be the Democratic nominee for President of the United States."

Mrs Clinton congratulated Obama after he clinched the nomination, and told a cheering crowd of supporters in New York City that she would work for party unity. But she did not concede.

"This has been a long campaign and I will make no decisions tonight," she said. "In the coming days I'll be consulting with supporters and party leaders to determine how to move forward with the best interests of our party and my country guiding my way."

Mrs Clinton and her campaign have sent mixed signals over the last two days about how long she would stay in a presidential race that she began as a heavy favorite.

During the conference call with New York lawmakers on Tuesday, she was asked about running as the No. 2 to Mr Obama and said she was open to the idea. "She said she would do whatever is necessary in order to make certain that we win, and serving as vice president would be one of the things she would be willing to do," Rep. Charles Rangel of New York, a Clinton supporter who was on the conference call, told Reuters in a phone interview.
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Old 2008-06-04, 00:08   Link #1048
yezhanquan
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I think KSJ is in an uproar now.
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Old 2008-06-04, 00:14   Link #1049
Kang Seung Jae
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I think KSJ is in an uproar now.
Not really, I knew the game was up when Florida and Michigan were considered half-states.


Now, to hope that Clinton doesn't go for VP, and that McCain wins.
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Old 2008-06-04, 00:39   Link #1050
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
Not really, I knew the game was up when Florida and Michigan were considered half-states.


Now, to hope that Clinton doesn't go for VP, and that McCain wins.
Nader '08!
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Old 2008-06-04, 00:40   Link #1051
Kang Seung Jae
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Nader '08!



Okay, I certainly wouldn't like a guy who was one of the causes for the Democract's defeat.
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Old 2008-06-04, 00:40   Link #1052
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If the Obama/Clinton ticket happens, and they run their campaign well, moving quickly to unite any divisions that have come into the party because of the long primary, etc, etc, and running on the shortcomings of the current administration (McCain's going to have a very hard time campaigning on "change", since he is a member of the incumbent party), they will be very hard to beat.

The possibility of the Obama/Clinton ticket makes me very excited.
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Old 2008-06-04, 00:43   Link #1053
Kang Seung Jae
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Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
The possibility of the Obama/Clinton ticket makes me very excited.
It gives me horror, because:


1. If Obama wins due to the Clinton voters, we're in for a even messier world of higer food prices and protectionism.

2. If Obama loses, Clinton would go down with him.
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Old 2008-06-04, 00:48   Link #1054
yezhanquan
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Both sides touched on burying hatchets, and acknowledging each other's contributions. It could all be spin, but for one night, Democrats can feel really proud to be a Democrat.
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Old 2008-06-04, 00:53   Link #1055
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post



Okay, I certainly wouldn't like a guy who was one of the causes for the Democract's defeat.
Well, the main reason Democrats lost was because the Supreme Court was filled with jackasses.

Still, maybe Nader makes Democrats lose again in states like Florida
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Old 2008-06-04, 01:21   Link #1056
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
It gives me horror, because:


1. If Obama wins due to the Clinton voters, we're in for a even messier world of higer food prices and protectionism.

2. If Obama loses, Clinton would go down with him.
I'm still trying to figure out how renegotiating some details of treaties translates into "protectionism and higher food prices", especially when those details benefit only multi-national corporations rather than the workers on both sides of the borderline.

I *am* certain that McCain will give us 4 more years of the utterly failed and bereft of moral compass disaster that the Bush Plan gave us (while Bush's cadre filled their pockets from the Treasury without oversight and regulatory agencies were gutted). Why? Because he says so and he's only mitigating to try and attract swing votes because the evangelical base is not "in the bag".

Obama/? may not be a stellar ticket for some -- but we have *got* to loose ourselves of the neocon hijack that destroyed the Republican party, ruined much of small and medium business for the benefit of a few, strained relationships with some of our strongest allies, and got thousands and thousands of people killed.

I *know* McCain's record, behavior, and who he surrounds himself with --- I've watched him since the 1980s. He's *not* the answer...
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Old 2008-06-04, 01:22   Link #1057
Kang Seung Jae
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how renegotiating some details of treaties translates into "protectionism and higher food prices".
"Renegotiating"? More like cancelling/killing.


Also, all the biofuel subsidies that Obama is planning will cause more problems in the food prices.
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Old 2008-06-04, 01:43   Link #1058
yezhanquan
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I don't think any of the trade deals can be cut without pain to the US. Reopening of negotiations, yes. But, throwing everything away? I think not.
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Old 2008-06-04, 01:52   Link #1059
Vexx
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Aye, canceling/killing treaties isn't even legal under guidelines the US set up. NAFTA was faulty when it was signed --- there's nothing wrong with coming back later and saying we need to revisit some pieces of it. Right now the only people benefiting from some of these trade deals are the companies that dance from country to country.

The biofuel subsidies are an issue from either party because that's a combined Corporate Farm Interest and Corporate Energy Interest. Both parties kowtow to those. The only difference is that the Dems tend to think about the smaller farmers as they toss money at it and the Repubs tend to think about the large farm conglomerates as they toss money at it.
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Old 2008-06-04, 02:09   Link #1060
Kang Seung Jae
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The only difference is that the Dems tend to think about the smaller farmers as they toss money at it and the Repubs tend to think about the large farm conglomerates as they toss money at it.
There were differences between Clinton, Obama, and McCain:

Obama: Give more subsidies to produce more, regardless of the results.

Clinton: Promised subsidies only when it came to Iowa, was originally anti-subsidies.

McCain: Supports biofuel, but is against the subsidies.
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