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Old 2008-06-06, 15:25   Link #901
Comartemis
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Nanoha..didn't even flinch when shooting at Quattro for touching Vivio. This is going to make attempts at drawing her angry alot more difficult in the future.
That's the fun thing about Nanoha. Subaru goes friggin' SSJ4 on you when she gets pissed, but Nanoha takes the Tranquil Fury route, which is infinitely cooler when it's pulled off right. Alex has something similar, usually reserved for when Hayate's in trouble and his Big Brother senses kick in.

While the exact nature of the changes to StrikerS is still very much up in the air, I'm considering switching things up so Alex is the one to take down either Jail or Quattro while in the throes of this calm fury, during which he nails them to the wall with projected pseudomatter swords and in a calm-yet-psychotic voice, tells them exactly where and how they screwed up and how he's going to enjoy dragging out the last few minutes of their lives in retribution for the pain and suffering they've caused everyone, especially Vivio and Hayate.
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Old 2008-06-06, 15:44   Link #902
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And people wonder why I love the girl.

Anyway, Comar, your rewrite, does it have OC's except your own?
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Old 2008-06-06, 16:18   Link #903
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Old 2008-06-06, 17:18   Link #904
Comartemis
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As of yet, no. However once the timeline has been completely worked out (at least up to the end of StrikerS) I'll open it up for free usage like you've done with Kerokanon.
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Old 2008-06-06, 18:11   Link #905
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Well, I already send Keroko after Quattro in Kerokanon, so if you decide on Quattro I'll be facing contradictions already.
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Old 2008-06-06, 18:15   Link #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Well, I already send Keroko after Quattro in Kerokanon, so if you decide on Quattro I'll be facing contradictions already.
What he means is that when he's finished, there will be Kero-canon, and Coma-canon. Two different fanon lines people can use.
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Old 2008-06-06, 18:20   Link #907
Comartemis
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With the way the manga timeline is turning out in my head, she may not even survive to make it to StrikerS. Alex is out for blood by the time Hayate comes out of her coma, and once he catches the scent of cyborg blood, he'll follow it--and Jail--to the ends of the multiverse. Hell, the brains may have to get somebody to forcibly pull him from the case at staffpoint to protect their precious little project.

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What he means is that when he's finished, there will be Kero-canon, and Coma-canon. Two different fanon lines people can use.
Bingo!
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Old 2008-06-06, 18:29   Link #908
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What he means is that when he's finished, there will be Kero-canon, and Coma-canon. Two different fanon lines people can use.
Kerokanon for those who like consistency, coma-canon for those who just want to throw it out the window and find their own path. Not a bad foresight.
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Old 2008-06-06, 18:47   Link #909
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Exactly.

The point of Comacanon--catchy, I think I'll keep it!--is to take what we have of canon and reshape it into what the author wants it to be, the same thing in essence that Kha is doing with Rebuilt of StrikerS. This 'verse is a shout-out to everyone who actually liked the apocalyptic threats of A's and Classic, and didn't like the addition of the military and everything that came with it. I'm doing everything in my power to give the girls their independence back, their freedom to be the heroines we know them to be without the restrictions imposed on them by the military. As of this moment, the only part of the bureaucracy that I can see which is completely unavoidable is the presence of the limiters, which will actually serve their intended purpose of making things difficult for the Aces since they can't immediately get in touch with Chrono or Carim to get them released while they're away from Mid-Childa.

Also, the more and more I think about it, the more and more I like the idea of giving the girls their own warship to cruise around in instead of confining them to planetside RF6 headquarters. The captain of said ship will probably be an OC introduced during the manga timeline, but I'll need to get to work on him/her before I put too much thought into this, as well as figure out how to realistically keep Nanoha from becoming a combat instructor.
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:03   Link #910
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Ironically, the presence of limiters is really all we ever get to see to how 'limited' the cast was in StrikerS. If you're picky we could count the 'no devices inside the building' plot device. StrikerS also had the apocalyptic threats you claim to be lacking (Cradle, Al Hazardian weapon, remember?)

And why an unnamed OC? Just throw Chrono on the bridge.
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:06   Link #911
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StrikerS also had the apocalyptic threats you claim to be lacking (Cradle, Al Hazardian weapon, remember?)
Which is the only reason--Vivio aside--why the whole plotline isn't getting completely scrapped in favor of something more interesting. Jail was just interesting enough as a villain for me to want to keep him and the Numbers around, but after StrikerS expect to see some variation of the Kingdom Hearts port I was working on. That or a sentient Lost Logia as the next adversary, possibly something to do with Precia Testarossa.

Quote:
Ironically, the presence of limiters is really all we ever get to see to how 'limited' the cast was in StrikerS.
I'm referring to the roles they are forced to play within the bureau; they can't just go out and save the day any old time they like, they have to conform to their roles as Enforcers or combat instructors or what have you. I'm fixing this by giving them roles with maximum flexibility, like the Enforcer/SIO/Captain combo which lets the whole group move around dimension space more or less as they please with Chrono's blessing. With Nanoha or whoever running the ship and the ship answering directly to Chrono, there's pretty much nobody in the military hierarchy who can tell the girls what to do.

*EDIT*
Alternatively, I may simply group the girls together in RF6, with the Relic Case being a sort of test period in the eyes of the hierarchy. Once the girls finish up with Jail and prove their worth, the project as a whole gets the go-ahead from high command, the girls get their ship, and RF6 turns into an independent force assigned to deal almost exclusively with Lost Logia.
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:21   Link #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Alternatively, I may simply group the girls together in RF6, with the Relic Case being a sort of test period in the eyes of the hierarchy. Once the girls finish up with Jail and prove their worth, the project as a whole gets the go-ahead from high command, the girls get their ship, and RF6 turns into an independent force assigned to deal almost exclusively with Lost Logia.
Ironically, this was how the whole thing appeared to be planned to turn out in the initial StrikerS episodes before we got all that prophecy business dropped in...
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:41   Link #913
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Originally Posted by ghazghkull View Post
What he means is that when he's finished, there will be Kero-canon, and Coma-canon. Two different fanon lines people can use.
How about Kriss-canon?
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:42   Link #914
Comartemis
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And that's how it will be this time around, assuming it works out this way. There will be no disbanding on account of the unit "serving its purpose" or whatever, and the assembled troops will be sticking together for a long time to come. The only difference is that they won't be stuck planetside post-StrikerS and will be free to engage in missions, track down Lost Logia, and basically lend their services anywhere they may be needed, all with the blessings of high command, and more importantly, Admiral Chrono.

(Huh, I guess he is good for something every now and again.... )
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Old 2008-06-06, 20:04   Link #915
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From the technical standpoint it was right to disband RF6 becuase it did serve it's purpose: take down Jail and finish the investigation into the JS incident. I get the feeling that Hayate dearly wanted to leverage RF6 into something more permanent but she'd used up all her political capital for setting up and RF6's results didn't quite justify things.

It's like Mobility Six, the SEAL counterterrorist team setup in the early 80s, who pretty mych were a temporary taskforce, though in their case when Mob Six was disbanded it was replaced with SEAL Team Six, the larger bigger more dedicated counterterrorist SEAL team.

That said, in real life task forces get disbanded all the time. Take a look at Task Force 121, or Task Force 145.

And also... quite frankly I doubt Hayate and Carim had enough clout to keep the Aces massed in one area for long.

Basically? Comes down to politics. The RF6 idea was a good concept, but it cost too much political capital to setup and maintain, and the results didn't really justify keeping it open and running. And also, remember that Carim was Hayate's main backer and she supported RF6's formation to deal with the threat in the prophecy; once said threat in prophecy is gone all indications are that Carim wanted to go back to the status quo.

I intend to change this in a project tentatively called Task Force Six, which will involve RF6 with small dets of SPOCC personnel... like 1 squad of the Assault Platoon, one of the flights (either Sword or Lance), and some members of SOPCC. Oh and Warthogs. Even if they're unarmed. Can't fight hogs.

Yes, we're getting Felix/Vita. No chief or Johnson though. They're a bit too badass to blend in. :P
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Old 2008-06-06, 20:08   Link #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
From the technical standpoint it was right to disband RF6 becuase it did serve it's purpose: take down Jail and finish the investigation into the JS incident. I get the feeling that Hayate dearly wanted to leverage RF6 into something more permanent but she'd used up all her political capital for setting up and RF6's results didn't quite justify things.

It's like Mobility Six, the SEAL counterterrorist team setup in the early 80s, who pretty mych were a temporary taskforce, though in their case when Mob Six was disbanded it was replaced with SEAL Team Six, the larger bigger more dedicated counterterrorist SEAL team.

That said, in real life task forces get disbanded all the time. Take a look at Task Force 121, or Task Force 145.

And also... quite frankly I doubt Hayate and Carim had enough clout to keep the Aces massed in one area for long.

Basically? Comes down to politics. The RF6 idea was a good concept, but it cost too much political capital to setup and maintain, and the results didn't really justify keeping it open and running.
Well mind you, that's from both a technical and realistic stand-point.

A lot of things can occur due to plot planned by the author. It's just up to the author to make it sound legitimate enough that RF6 is either reformed or maintained, due to circumstances.

But on the other hand, I will keep that note about keeping the Aces together at any given length of time in mind.
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Old 2008-06-06, 20:14   Link #917
Comartemis
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I get the feeling that Hayate dearly wanted to leverage RF6 into something more permanent but she'd used up all her political capital for setting up and RF6's results didn't quite justify things.
Well she's getting her wish in this fanon. RF6 is not disbanding, come hell or high water. Chalk it up to the politicians thinking differently if you want to justify it because I'm not particularly interested in military realism; I'm interested in telling the story I want to tell. If the politicians don't like the Aces sticking together, tough luck, they'll just have to spend the whole story complaining about it without being able to do anything about it.

Basically, it comes down to this: Hayate assembled RF6 as a project of hers, to see if this sort of organization could be successful. The project was wildly successful, almost single-handedly defeating one of the worst menaces to the bureau in recent memory. The project is then enthusiastically green-lighted as a permanent part of the military by high command. It's that simple.
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Old 2008-06-06, 20:26   Link #918
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She's still gonna need backing and political skills. Sucess won't guarantee that the brass will hate her even more and do their best to kill the project. It's happened before and can happy again.

Which is pretty much why the OFM is under SOPCC and O'Neill; nobody fucks with O'Neil. And when his apprentice finally ascends to the head of SOPCC, nobody will fuck with Cipher either.

....oh god Cipher as a General and O'Neil's apprentice. They are all screwed.

Also, Comar, when I said political capital I mean all the backroom deals and stuff that Hayate needed Carim and Chrono for. Office politics taken to the higher level. That's why she was in such a weak position without her backers; Hayate doesn't have as much political capital as Chrono or Carim. As for the politicians, it's not the politicians I'm worried about, it'd be the TSAB old farts in charge, who'd be firm believers in status quo is good. Don't forget that Carim is just one Director; the other Directors could outvote her and split the Aces off regardless.

Something to think about.

And now I go to work.

Probably because I started out writing for Gatekeepers, where the main organisation got majorly screwed over, and in YSAC, where the Navy got screwed over majorly, I've always tended to see the worst case senarios for screwing over.

...hmmmm worse comes to worse transfer the Aces to the Navy and turn RF6 into NAVSPECWAR under Chrono.
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Old 2008-06-06, 20:43   Link #919
Comartemis
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Goose, military politics are a tertiary concern at the very best. So far as we know, Hayate's only opponent in the brass was Regius, and he certainly isn't a problem any more.

For a more concrete example of what I'm doing, I would like to direct you to a fanfic on my old forum called "Through Troubled Waters". Here's chapters 0-1 and 2.

Note how the author provides no explanation of how or why RF6 is still operating after the JS incident. I've spoken with him and helped him work the bugs out of the first few chapters, and he's mentioned how he started on the fic before the final episodes of StrikerS were subbed, so pretty much everything in the last 4 episodes or so didn't happen or at least happened differently. No Adult!Vivio, for instance, but more importantly, no disbanding after the series ended.

Why? Well why the heck not? Military politics are concerns to be addressed in fics written by people who actually care about that stuff. So far as I'm concerned, Hayate had more than enough political clout, as you put it, to keep RF6 together after the JS incident.

Once the 'verse has been spelled out, you're welcome to write a ficlet describing how Hayate talked the bigwigs into keeping the group together, but that's nowhere on my list of concerns.
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Old 2008-06-06, 20:54   Link #920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
Her fight with Jail made me like her alot more. Though not significantly, and for different reasons.

Well, at least Fate got pissed before. Nanoha..didn't even flinch when shooting at Quattro for touching Vivio. This is going to make attempts at drawing her angry alot more difficult in the future.


And as for me..been playing waaaaay too much Cabal and MechMerc4 lately. I'll burn through the backlog of stories tomorrow night hopefully.
I've been binging on The Combat Arms Beta...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
From the technical standpoint it was right to disband RF6 becuase it did serve it's purpose: take down Jail and finish the investigation into the JS incident. I get the feeling that Hayate dearly wanted to leverage RF6 into something more permanent but she'd used up all her political capital for setting up and RF6's results didn't quite justify things.

It's like Mobility Six, the SEAL counterterrorist team setup in the early 80s, who pretty mych were a temporary taskforce, though in their case when Mob Six was disbanded it was replaced with SEAL Team Six, the larger bigger more dedicated counterterrorist SEAL team.

That said, in real life task forces get disbanded all the time. Take a look at Task Force 121, or Task Force 145.

And also... quite frankly I doubt Hayate and Carim had enough clout to keep the Aces massed in one area for long.

Basically? Comes down to politics. The RF6 idea was a good concept, but it cost too much political capital to setup and maintain, and the results didn't really justify keeping it open and running. And also, remember that Carim was Hayate's main backer and she supported RF6's formation to deal with the threat in the prophecy; once said threat in prophecy is gone all indications are that Carim wanted to go back to the status quo.

I intend to change this in a project tentatively called Task Force Six, which will involve RF6 with small dets of SPOCC personnel... like 1 squad of the Assault Platoon, one of the flights (either Sword or Lance), and some members of SOPCC. Oh and Warthogs. Even if they're unarmed. Can't fight hogs.

Yes, we're getting Felix/Vita. No chief or Johnson though. They're a bit too badass to blend in. :P
Great another appearance for him, you're going to make him insufferable you know. Though RF:6 did have serve lack of cynical/sarcastic jerkasses... I don't see him tolerating the rest of the staff that well though Teana is about the only one I can see him not wanting tear his hair out when he's around. Subaru though is liable to drive him into a berserk rage...

Felix:
Stop being happy damn it! Curse, brood, whine! Just stop being happy god damn it!!!
Subaru:
Wow you face is all red do you have a fever you should get some rest!
Felix: RAAAAAAWWWWRRR!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
She's still gonna need backing and political skills. Sucess won't guarantee that the brass will hate her even more and do their best to kill the project. It's happened before and can happy again.

Which is pretty much why the OFM is under SOPCC and O'Neill; nobody fucks with O'Neil. And when his apprentice finally ascends to the head of SOPCC, nobody will fuck with Cipher either.

....oh god Cipher as a General and O'Neil's apprentice. They are all screwed.
Well that's a ways off still like I said O'Neil not going to stop until he needs a walker to get the office... even then he'll probably use it to beat down half the guys that come to drag him off to retirement. Assuming my long term plans are realized (AKA I keep writing out the rather epicly long winded arc floating in my head) SOPCC would grow, assimilate, and mutate radically for decades before becoming even a notable political force. The current arc I'm working on concerns only a very minor first step in that plan.

Quote:
Also, Comar, when I said political capital I mean all the backroom deals and stuff that Hayate needed Carim and Chrono for. Office politics taken to the higher level. That's why she was in such a weak position without her backers; Hayate doesn't have as much political capital as Chrono or Carim. As for the politicians, it's not the politicians I'm worried about, it'd be the TSAB old farts in charge, who'd be firm believers in status quo is good. Don't forget that Carim is just one Director; the other Directors could outvote her and split the Aces off regardless.
Which is basiclly O'Neil's job as of now he dosen't fly off to shot it out with bad guys anymore (not that he's always happy about that mind.). He spends most of his time flying between offices and conference rooms wheeling and dealing. He's also been in the TSAB for a couple decades now and made allot of friends... course he's made some enemies too.

Also the idea that NO one can touch or screw with RF:6 is silly beyond reason even if you say it stays together having everyone rave over it and no one able to imped it even slightly is not only stupid it's boring. No one likes the new kid on the block less so when the new kid comes along and snaps up things they want for themselves. (like oh say extremely skilled elite mages...) RF:6 is the new guy, they're small, and they're probably in a pool full of sharks for quite a while it should be a struggle for them just to survive at all. Plus it needs to have a reason to even exist what's that reason? "Because I want it too" is not a viable answer there needs to be a sane reason in universe that makes sense. namely it needs to do something other units or forces can't.

At some point you can't just ignore the setting when it becomes inconvenient that's the sign of a fan fiction hack IMO if you just keep doing that you end up with something that's not only gutted of any resemble to the source it's also often just defies good sense and logic which despite what you might think are important in a story. The Nanoha story is heavily based around the TSAB, the TSAB is a large bureaucratic organization with all the problems and hurdles that entails. You can't just breeze by and ignore that when it becomes inconvenient; well okay you can but anyone reading it is going to think it's stupid.

PLENTY of works of fiction have been sunk or damaged by not thinking things through and basiclly doing stuff just because. Nanoha may have magic, but it also has politics allot of politics and if you ignore that or try to clumsily hack it out of the stroy you're ignoring a huge part of the setting and it'll probably come out looking just like that AKA a chopped up mess.

If you seriously intend to try and rewrite canon on a grand scale you're going to have to use allot more then rule of cool and acts of plot to make it worth reading and believable.
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