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Old 2008-06-07, 10:50   Link #961
Liingo
Love Hina?
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kangaroos live in my backyard =P
Right, As usual, time for to address the backlog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Heart
Post 744-New OC: Karu
First up, welcome to the thread. Hope you find us useful for bouncing ideas off. Just keep in mind that the majority of us in here like to keep with canon, so if youíre planning to use these OCís for say a crossover or AU, some of the comments wonít necessarily apply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Heart
Familiar: Willow is Karuís familiar, she has green eyes, she can change her from to a little fox, woman-fox, woman and fox-demon, her hair in woman-fox and woman is red, Willow process with fire element, sheís strong and powerful, also fast, Willow process with fire element.
Just keep in mind that sheís going to be sharing the mana pool of Karu so this is going to affect what Willow and Karu is capable of.
Quote:
Lightning befall:- this attack can uses to
Would you mind finishing the description? Thanks
On the spell list, the majority of them are fine, however:
Quote:
Wave of death: this spell is powerful take a wave from, it can wipe up troops on mages.

Order of chaos: that spell is the most powerful of Karuís spell, this spell can destroy the enemies with single one blow (this spell can be done only when Karu in Black Hawk mode.)
Wave of death seems a lot more powerful than her magic rank would suggest. While I can see it being able to injure/ disable/kill a single mage of B rank, I donít really think itís going to be able to as powerful as you suggest itís going to be. In comparison, Order of Chaos doesnít seem that impressive since youíve pretty much have the same spell repeated ( in terms of its effect).

All, in all, pretty good for a first attempt, although some things could be tweaked a little. Leaving out the hard numbers will help, since in theory any spell is capable of killing as long as itís physical damage and not magical damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Tigerclaw
Post- 762 Incoming funkiness and silly nods.

Here is the first scene of Marcellus Fabrizio (AKA: Zorg)... showing just how fruity he really is.
Interesting weapons that they have.. Sounds very impressive. Should be a good read at the very least. Keep it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinIlumi
Post 771 Ė OC: Suki Motomiya
Welcome as well. Like I said above, we deal with OCís that fit with canon predominantly so some comments may not apply.
- Is there a reason for the differing surnames of the family? Seems rather weird. Divorced parents?
- Hmm, not much else to comment on Come back with a spell list and weíll see what we can do then. But feel free to use the thread to bounce ideas off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk
Post 773 Ė Part of Hayateís Bíday festivities
The WAFF is strong with this one XD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron
Post 775 Ė More for Hayateís Bday
Gah, Aaron, do you mind toning down the emoticon spam!
Quote:
(This last comment drew a couple or so disapproving stares from the others, making Agito raise her hands apologetically) she then tilted her head, ďAnd back on topic, what do you mean never returned?Ē
Donít need the brackets here *points up*

Very nice piece though. Good family antics!
Good luck with the new semesterís work!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK
Post 806 SNAFU part 2
A few points where spell/grammar check would come in handy but other than that, not much I can complain about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral
post 808, Shopped Pic
Ohh, very nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva
Post 819 Ė Battle Speech
*shakes head* /facepalm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva
Post 903 Ė Super WHAT?
It would be more effective if I knew where this was from.. Got a vague inkling but am probably wrong. I get the feeling Iím going to be facepalming though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tshouryuu
post 854 Happy Birthday Hayate
Hahahahahahhaha. Awesome stuff, absolutely awesome. Now when do we get the video footage of this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenahort
post 830-1 Zenith Project
Part 1: Iím liking the atmosphere that youíve created for yourself here. Also whatís this, competent males in the TSAB! This is madness Good to see Acous have some love in the fic as well.
Part 2: Nicely written battle sequence This guy is awesome in all accounts. Iím going to have a look at their profiles again once I get the time.
*hands cookies*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
Post 883 Ė NanoVita Pic
Whoa, I can definitely see moe in that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghaz
Post 885
Remember that the requirement to have your character indexed is that it hasn't received any major haxx-busting statements, they aren't in a state of de-haxxing, and/or has received some semblance of approval.

At present, I only accept Keroko's and Liingo's seals of approval.
Although some of the otherís in the thread can do the same as well. As noted, Iím not that free now a days to keep up with the thread on a daily basis. Still thanks the vote of confidence. Iíll try to get the rubber stamp out as often as possible
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkellis
post 870 Ė Teaser Fall of Babel
Iíll be waiting for the arrival of the chapters with anticipation. Was this part of the stuff that you were writing before with Rancer and the others? Or is this something different.. I canít remember.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cort
Post 815- Profile Rex Atkins
Time for me to go over the rest of it.
No problems with the spells, the explanations after each of them have enough detail so that I donít have any additional questions.
Just with Excaliber, what sought of effects are we talking about? Hospitalisation? Device rebuilds? Or less severe?

Your new canon concept is interesting, although obviously there are things that will have to be ironed out. While I applaud you for taking this step, I would urge you to consider what the others are saying as you go about the creation of your AU timeline. You donít have to take everything on board but what they have to say is going to be of some help in shaping the direction of the AU timeline.

Like Keroko, I personally donít see anything majorly wrong with what youíre proposing. While we have been pretty much sticking to canon, (even if at times weíve been cursing the idiocy of the writers) thereís no reason why you canít alter it like youíre planning to. May I remind everyone in the OC thread that weíre allowed to do anything that we want. Cortís moving into a different canon line, it wonít affect what youíre currently doing in the present. It is officially another AU line so thereís no reason at all to jump down his throat for what heís suggesting.

Essentially, just do what Kha suggested a few posts back and just post the start of this. We can go through it later and help point out any discrepancies if they come up.

--- Sigh, more posts before this goes up.--

Cort's writing an AU. Hammer that into your heads everyone. AN AU! Yes I know that the rest of us write OC's (and all other things) following canon. That's no reason to start the flaming. Just ignore the posts instead so that the rest of us can get back to reading the thread in relative peace (well as peaceful as it gets )
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Old 2008-06-07, 10:54   Link #962
Estavali
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Dropping in to throw a random thought.

We all know Jail's backup plan involving making babies that will carry on his mind/memories/will. What if Jail himself is one such child to begin with, and has other "siblings"? Which may explain the scion of Al Hazred in a way, if he is but part of a long line of back-up children aimed at preserving royal personality(?).

One problem I foresee with this idea (other than having the Silver Retriever and/or the Ion Canon breaking it to smittereens) is that why we are thus shown with only Jail himself and not the other scions. Possible answers could be:

1) Jail and his merry brood were not created by the TSAB originally, but was perhaps what we can call a private enterprise. This privacy was invaded by the TSAB, and the brood was scattered, with the High Council securing only Jail.

2) The House of Jail was a TSAB pet project and Jail is the "youngest" member of the lot. His elder siblings proved to be more troublesome than expected and after eliminating these fellows, the High Council decided to keep a very much tighter grip on Jail, who wisely played along.

3)..... Whatever Nighty and Lowe can come up with .

*re-lurks*

Edit: And I almost forgot....

Kha....

DO NOT BURN BOOKS.





Not until you have a copy of them all somewhere convenient of course.
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Old 2008-06-07, 10:57   Link #963
tshouryuu
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Well Coma, your idea isn't exactly bad. Its just that the execution of it isn't done in a believable way. The others do raise some valid points despite the irritation they've shown. In their own way, they're trying to help you write a better and more believable story. If your reader has to suspend their belief to read your stuff, you have pretty much failed as a writer unless you're writing humor.

Personally I think they have set the level a little too high but that could be due to the fact most writers here have produced rather good and somewhat high level pieces of work.

I suggest you look at this calmly and think of what everyone has said so far.

@Liingo: You'll get the video once I can convince ATC to make it.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:01   Link #964
Kha
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I don't know what to believe in any more. Seriously how did we handle An Hero? Why did we lose the touch? Or is it because we now have radical elements?
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:08   Link #965
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*shakes head* Goose, that's proving my point. You throw around a few random terms and compare them to some american army teams I never even heard of and expect everything to function like the good ol' army you're familiar with. I believe we established a long time ago that the TSAB doesn't function like a normal military unit. Throwing around logic like that is, quite frankly, meaningless. The whole 'but the GF can yank them out of RF6' doesn't sound anything as logic to discard the idea. Sure, it is technically possible for them, but why would they do that?
*headdesks repeatedly at Keroko missing the goddamn motherfucking point*

Let me rewrite that and then explain for you, Keroko. I am not in the best of moods after spending a 12-hour shift dealing with morons and the scum of the paying public as well as morons in the call center who, like Comartemis, refuse to listen. Even when they are wrong. Let's leave that aside and get to the essay.

Now, Comartemis is saying that RF6 is going to wow everyone that they will all fall over and worship the aces. We have seen from history, and human nature, however, that this is not true. The British Special Air Service are the most sucessful special operations unit in the world, and have a great many detractors. The US Army's elite Delta Force, the supersecret counterterrorist team, went through a rocky start: despite having similar levels of backing and support as did Hayate, Delta was nearly closed several times by Army brass who disliked the fact that special forces were upsetting the status quo. The same thing happened with the US Navy's SEAL Team Six, which was a maritime counterterrorist unit; the regular Navy hated SEAL Team Six and kept trying to close it down for a long time. (In fact they suceeded in doing so: SEAL Team Six was disbanded in 1991. It was, however, quietly restarted under the name of Naval Special Warfare Development Group.)

In the 1980s, the US Air Force was doing all it could to kill the idea of special operations, so much that it was actively sabotaging the 21st Special Tactics Squadron, the only special operations unit in the US Air Force. One of the more spectacular times was when 21st STS had to deploy to Panama for Operation Just Cause... and the USAF cargo plane that was supposed to take them took off without them.

What is the point? The point is this. It is unreasonable to expect that RF6 will wow everyone. RF6 is the new kid on the block. It is upsetting everyone's status quo. It is grabbing people from here and there. It is being led by a GIRL, and not only that, a CRIMINAL. And RF6 is going to wow everyone and everyone loves them?

The crew of the USS Enterprise-D loved Ensign Mary Sue this much as well, as some who are old enough to recall will remember.

This has nothing to do with the military. It has everything to do with human nature. We humans don't like it when someone shows us up, when a noob shows up and does better than us. This has happened before to units made of mundane people. How do you think the rest of the Bureau is going to react to being shown up by a bunch of girls? Hell look at Ghost in the Shell: Section Nine is badass, and they keep getting fucked over by politics. And Aramaki is an experienced wheeler and dealer.

Consider that.

As for yanking the girls out of RF6? Setup for drama. GF brass gets jitterry and decides to overreact by yanking Nanoha and Fate out. From there we have a number of branching points. 1) NanoFate go like good GF soldiers. 2) NanoHayaFate mass togther, limiter all release, and proceed to show GF brass why you do NOT fuck with the Aces. These are just two rough general outlines and there's actually more ways to develop this but I'm tired and my eyes hurt so I'm not going to bother and anyway I'm writing things in a different direction.

Though really as stormturmoil pointed out in IRC (you really should come in here at times), GF would he rubbbing their hands with glee at getting 3 aces. The problem is that they don't want all that firepower massing together.

Also, Keroko, with regards to the hypocrisy of the military geeks who have made the TSAB more restrictive than it is in canon: show me where I have done so. In fact we actually don't know if TSAB discipline is just relaxed at RF6; note that many special forces units in the world are very relaxed about such military details. Hell the OFM go DRINKING TOGETHER. And PARTYING WILDLY. And ERICK JOINS IN. If that's restrictive... i dunno what is. And Franz is always being punished with more paperwork instead of more appropriate punishments.

But really, the whole crux of this is simple: We're interested in how Comartemis will carry out his plans.

We'd just like him to at least listen and remember that commonsense still applies to dealing with people.

That said I will make a conscious effort to tone down the abare and approach his stuff with an open mind. I would like you all to note, however, that I have not been frothing at the mouth or going abare, which is generally a good sign.

Also as regards to something Comartemis said on Hayate's political capital: If you want her to have political capital, she's going to be shafted in the deployment, comar. Political capital is only built up through years of wheeling and dealing and office politics: this was pretty much what killed Colonel Charlie Beckwith's career; he spent so much time in the field he neglected political powerplays and got shafted out of becoming the first head of the US Special Operations Command.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:13   Link #966
Kha
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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One thing I learnt about human nature though, common sense isn't really common after all. How else can I see things one way and somebody else see things in another?

Goose we know that you've specialized into this so much that you can read it from the back of your mind. But like the out-of-universe references we do, there is an imperative to explain every detail. Only now do I vaguely see your point.

Talking to you just makes me stoop to your level. It's sad.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:19   Link #967
Wild Goose
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
One thing I learnt about human nature though, common sense isn't really common after all. How else can I see things one way and somebody else see things in another?
Touche on the commonsense, Kha. But when more then one person is raising the same point, you really should start taking a closer look at things.

Though another reason is because you're Khracked. Nobody expects you to see things the way we do. [/me pokes]
[Goose has poked Kha for xxxxx EXP]

Quote:
Goose we know that you've specialized into this so much that you can read it from the back of your mind. But like the out-of-universe references we do, there is an imperative to explain every detail. Only now do I vaguely see your point.
I still don't really get how my original starting point was so undecipherable; the connections are obvious. RF6 = Special unit; brass dislikes special unit becuase special units disrupt status quo as is human nature, ergo RF6 being wowed and worshipped by everyone makes no sense. Hell even in a group of 20 people or less you're not going to get something like that.

I'll simplify it further: this is something proven by observation by researchers: People do not like it at all when new kids on the block show them up. For the Bureau to be wowed by RF6, even the people who RF6 inadvertandly made to look bad, is unrealistic and counter to human nature.

Show up somebody and they will dislike you, simple as that.

Quote:
Talking to you just makes me stoop to your level. It's sad.
Now you know how I feel about talking to you. I have suceeded in inflicting on kha what he has inflicted on me!

*Me cackles madly with the insanity derived from exactly 4 hours of sleep in 48 hours*
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:24   Link #968
Raging Heart
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ok the fiction i am writing about Karu, well lets say i will clear all of it about, everything will be clear, once the chapters are out, things will be clear out.

there something else, the title i had choose for the story has nothing to do with games.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:26   Link #969
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Heart View Post
ok the fiction i am writing about Karu, well lets say i will clear all of it about, everything will be clear, once the chapters are out, things will be clear out.

there something else, the title i had choose for the story has nothing to do with games.
Don't worry too much about clarity; some stories write themselves. Five Minutes, forexample, basically only had one scene planned out with clarity: Franz vs Nanoha, Divine Buster vs Divine Buster Extension. Everything else sorta wrote themselves. Hell Psycho/Leena wrote themselves
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:34   Link #970
Liingo
Love Hina?
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kangaroos live in my backyard =P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Edit: And I almost forgot....

Kha....

DO NOT BURN BOOKS.

Not until you have a copy of them all somewhere convenient of course.
:nods:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshouryuu View Post
@Liingo: You'll get the video once I can convince ATC to make it.
XD

ATC Get to work NOW!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I don't know what to believe in any more. Seriously how did we handle An Hero? Why did we lose the touch? Or is it because we now have radical elements?
We handled him like just fine. It was an AU, we treated it like an AU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
What is the point? The point is this. It is unreasonable to expect that RF6 will wow everyone. RF6 is the new kid on the block. It is upsetting everyone's status quo. It is grabbing people from here and there. It is being led by a GIRL, and not only that, a CRIMINAL. And RF6 is going to wow everyone and everyone loves them?
Cort, this is one of those times when the thread is trying to help you. No, it's not because they hate you.
Quote:
As for yanking the girls out of RF6? Setup for drama. GF brass gets jitterry and decides to overreact by yanking Nanoha and Fate out. From there we have a number of branching points. 1) NanoFate go like good GF soldiers. 2) NanoHayaFate mass togther, limiter all release, and proceed to show GF brass why you do NOT fuck with the Aces. These are just two rough general outlines and there's actually more ways to develop this but I'm tired and my eyes hurt so I'm not going to bother and anyway I'm writing things in a different direction.
As said, listening to the thread can actually help you move your AU plot lines along.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:35   Link #971
Keroko
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
How about Kriss-canon?
*Shot*
Make one, and I'll see what I can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Felix: Stop being happy damn it! Curse, brood, whine! Just stop being happy god damn it!!!
Subaru:
Wow you face is all red do you have a fever you should get some rest!
Felix: RAAAAAAWWWWRRR!!!!
Now this I'd love to see.

Though I think he'd get along reasonably well with Tesla, concidering her high amount of patience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Which reminds me, what kind of moe is Sakura Mato? Shy Moe? Gentle Moe? Psycho Moe AKA Dark Sakura...?
Hmm, she's a shy-moe of just the right amount for me to like. Because unlike most shy-moes, she has a spine. I still remember that scene in UBW where she practically tells of Tohsaka, a senpai, after she told her to get lost. That scene made me grin from ear to ear. Good girl, Sakura. Good girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
While technically my OCs have already been "approved" by one and all, this was in the Old Days, and I don't want to rely on a grandfather clause. Therefore, re-submitting for re-busting.

I've added in a Major Spoiler section to show my actual intentions for the characters. It's really very Major and Spoilery, so read it only if you're absolutely certain that you don't mind the entire story spoiled for you. Having said that, any hax-busting done on the spoiler sections is still appreciated and will be taken into account.
Nope, didn't spot any glaring problems on my read-throughs. Still good to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I don't know what to believe in any more. Seriously how did we handle An Hero? Why did we lose the touch? Or is it because we now have radical elements?
We've become too strict, and we don't provide enough actuall support. As you can see, any idea that falls out of the circle of what is concidered 'good' is mercilessly torn into without positive and actually helpfull feedback. That scares people off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Dropping in to throw a random thought.

We all know Jail's backup plan involving making babies that will carry on his mind/memories/will. What if Jail himself is one such child to begin with, and has other "siblings"? Which may explain the scion of Al Hazred in a way, if he is but part of a long line of back-up children aimed at preserving royal personality(?).
To answer that question:

Spoiler for IS: Silver Retriever:

Looks like Nighty's theory's were right after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Also, Keroko, with regards to the hypocrisy of the military geeks who have made the TSAB more restrictive than it is in canon: show me where I have done so.
If it doesn't apply to you, it doesn't apply to you. I didn't mention any names, did I? Though really, I wish you'd quit bringing up all those real-life units and references to te American army to justify a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I still don't really get how my original starting point was so undecipherable; the connections are obvious. RF6 = Special unit; brass dislikes special unit becuase special units disrupt status quo as is human nature, ergo RF6 being wowed and worshipped by everyone makes no sense. Hell even in a group of 20 people or less you're not going to get something like that.
'Common sense' dictates that nobody is 'wowed' by RF6? That's a blatant contradiction to canon. People are in fact wowed by RF6. The Aces are famous because they wow people, and RF6 is no different. Here's a little page from chapter 11:

Spoiler for IS: Silver Retriever:

People are wowed by RF6. Comar's idea may be exagerated, but the core of it is entirely justified.

*still working on he rest of the post*
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:36   Link #972
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Right now I think the problem is with Comar, not his ideas. And I intend to straighten this out before it all goes to hell and Aaron needs to interfere again.

I quite frankly don't care what goes on in IRC in regards to the bitterness against Comar in this thread. I believe Aaron told everyone this before: Let the IRC stay in the IRC.
It’s not that simple at all for people that have acutally talked to him on IRC we can’t just somehow ignore everything he’s said there when be posts in the thread. This would be like trying to argue that if someone confessed to murder in a newspaper and bragged about where to find the body it couldn’t be used in court or something.

Quote:
The idea of coma-canon was thought out, he did his research, posted his ideas and listened to the reviews of his ideas. He altered where his ideas clashed, and where it was possible, however what is happening here is simply people trying to spot even the most tiny miniscule flaws in Comar's ideas and blowing them out of proportion for the sole purpose of grudges and bad blood against him.
Yeah minuscule flaws like asking him to think VERY carefully before DESTROYING a central aspect of the entire universe... what are we thinking!

Quote:
I don't care what Comar does in IRC, but in the OC-thread he should not be getting that kind of flak.
Yes he should because despite what you might think the OC and IRC are clearly linked and if you’re saying stupid stuff there it WILL come up that's just how it works and you opinions on the matter are in addition to being irrational (we’ve set up a chat, but nothing that happens on it can come back into the thread!) is simply never going to come to pass. You don't want to use IRC fine, but those of us that do aren't going to somehow ignore everything that happens on it.

Quote:
I know Comar can rub people the wrong way, I'm not excluded either, because I happen to like both Yuuno and Chrono, and Regius was a brilliant character in my opinion, so having Comar voice an entirely different opinion (especially on Regius) does irk me. However, I don't let that get in my way of looking at his ideas objectively, and commenting on them as such. Tk can rub people the wrong way too, does that mean we have to torp all of his ideas as well?
The key here is I listen to people, have stayed to canon (thus reducing friction), and not acted like a self absorbed jerk during my entire stay that's talked a big game and never produced a damn thing. I'd seriously probably have ALLOT less issue with him if he acutally wrote something that gave a hint this could work... Instead of us just going round in circles debating his sometimes rather questionable plot ideas.

Quote:
The entire idea of his canon was to limit the military aspect of the show, now I know the military geeks may find this hard to swallow,
No ANYONE that's watched the show would find it hard to sallow. The military aspects are PART OF THE UNIVERSE what do you think people would say if you tried to write a novel about World War II "without the military aspects". When you reach the point where you start denying the very core concepts of a work you should consider if maybe you shouldn’t find a better universe to write in or go original. If he likes the classic "random girl gains super powers: she fights evil!" plot so much he should go find a series like that where no one would bat an eye at some of this stuff, but instead he’s decided to try and chop up Nanoha with a chainsaw which is basiclly automatically going to gain him flak from people that like the series as it is.

Quote:
but if he wants to do this he has every bit of right to do so. He's not throwing anything out the window, he is only minimizing the influence it has on its story.
Oh he's throwing lots out the window including canon, logic, and common sense all in pursuit of apparently getting rid of a bunch of the stuff that acutally made Nanoha unique in it's genre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
The males of MGLN have the unfortunate status of being guys in a magical girl show. They are naturally overshadowed by their female counterparts and thus, naturally, their achievements are also cast in a poor light compared to the girls. But even accounting for this, there isn't much there to catch the viewer's attention. If there were any males in the main cast this would probably be different, but as it is all the guys are supporting characters who are there just to make the girls look good.
And hey why bother to try and fix this problem (and it is a problem IMO) when we can instead just engage our cliche engine into overdrive and go "lolz Guys in MG shows suxors!!!! and keep on trucking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
...
Alright, news flash guys. Not everyone here was particularly impressed by the addition of the TSAB to Nanoha. Some of us are old school magical girl fans who thought S1 was perfectly awesome when it was just Nanoha, Yuuno, Fate and Precia without any of this military bullshit thrown in to the mixture. The TSAB added nothing of interest to the story until the Wolkenritter showed up and the bureau was nice enough to add the cartridge system to Bardiche and RH.
If you’re an “old school” magic girl fan Nanoha is not your series; It’s that simple. So instead of tearing it to shreds to turn it into something it just isn’t why don’t you just go write for one of those old school shows where no one will second guess even half this stuff.

Quote:
Just for a reference point, I'm one of those guys who thought Sailor Moon was the greatest anime ever until I ran into Nanoha. I do not want, nor do I need, an epic Da Vinci Code-esque plot with political intrigue and all that inane bullshit. Good old-fashioned good vs evil works just fine with the right twists thrown in.
The fact you acutally consider a complex plot incorporating aspects beyond a simple good vs evil slug fest quote "inane" says volumes about many of our problems with your approach in general...

Quote:
Let's not. Some characters just don't deserve development.
And this about sums up most of the rest...

Quote:
You can also get drama out of a "stupid" good old fashioned good vs evil plot.
Not without bringing other aspects at least not in modern times just look at pretty much any story in the last 20 years very few of them are simple good vs evil and even some you might say ARE like say Star Wars still incorporate political aspects among other things. Good vs. Evil without ambiguity or other things going on is simply boring.

Quote:
Now extensive usage of the military bureaucracy in a fanfic appeals to me about as much as swimming in a pool full of scissors, but ATC managed to convince me in IRC that it's going to be necessary at some point,
TK notches up a point of respect for ATC.

Quote:
so I'll likely have to distort canon during the timeskip to get this to work, but you mark my words, I will find a feasible way to put the Aces out of the reach of the bureaucracy, even if I have to tear the whole goddamn bureau down brick by brick.

Bureau Command Structure, brace for orbital bombardment.
... Yet it seems while the words where heard the meaning wasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo
Cort's writing an AU. Hammer that into your heads everyone. AN AU! Yes I know that the rest of us write OC's (and all other things) following canon. That's no reason to start the flaming. Just ignore the posts instead so that the rest of us can get back to reading the thread in relative peace (well as peaceful as it gets )
I've said this before, but IMO an AU isn't a "do anything" pass. Crack is one thing, but attempting a write a serious AU continuity is another. Actually when doing this canon becomes MORE important as you know need to start predicting and guessing the logical outcome of your changes and the only thing that can let you do that is... what happened in canon.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:39   Link #973
Raging Heart
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@ Wild Goose: lolz sometimes when read some fictions, have in them some madness, it make you wonder what the hell or you go all laughing about them.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:43   Link #974
PhoenixG
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
How about Kriss-canon?
*Shot*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Make one, and I'll see what I can do.
I guess we only have naked people around it, due yakyuken <.<; >.>;
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:44   Link #975
Comartemis
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Originally Posted by haiz123321 View Post
Actually I didn't mind but I guess what you're trying to say is the addition of the military stuff makes Nanoha less of a Magical Girl Genre?
More or less. And I liked it better before the TSAB showed up. Of course, the fight scenes didn't get really exciting until after Chrono poked his nose into Nanoha's business, so there's a nice little trade-off going from old-school magical girls into this new kind of shonen/magical girl hybrid series. I just wish they could’ve kept the bureaucracy somewhere else where we didn’t have to see it.

Quote:
Hmm I sense some slight gender biased or something? Well MGLN being a girls > guys anime does tick or rub some people off in a wrong way though.
Pretty much, but take a look at how they're portrayed in-series.

Take Yuuno for example. The poor guy basically exists as a foil for Nanoha, to bring out and display her character traits in the early part of the show. Firstly there’s his role as the instigator of the whole thing, the pseudo-mentor figure who teaches Nanoha about magic and gives her RH. For the first few episodes, he’s basically nothing but the talking animal sidekick, and every other thing he says is meant to show some quality of Nanoha’s.

“I’m sorry, I’m sorry, this is all my fault” gives Nanoha the chance to show how willing she is to help out, which is the single biggest difference which separates her from her predecessors. “Oh wow, Nanoha can transform without the incantation” shows what kind of natural skill she has, followed closely by “Holy shit! Divine Buster!” Once Fate and Arf show up, Yuuno has already started to fade into the background, taking the role of a counter to Arf’s presence and keeping Nanoha from getting tag-teamed. From this point onwards, the focus is almost entirely on Nanoha and Fate because Yuuno has served his purpose, something that becomes more and more clear as the series progresses into A’s and StrikerS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
Time for me to go over the rest of it.
No problems with the spells, the explanations after each of them have enough detail so that I don’t have any additional questions.
Just with Excaliber, what sought of effects are we talking about? Hospitalisation? Device rebuilds? Or less severe?
Remember when Nanoha powered down Blaster 4 and RH had cracks running through it and Nanoha could barely walk on her own? That's pretty much what ExCalibur does to Rex. The difference is that there's no permanent damage to his linker core and a few days of simple bedrest--no real medical attention really required, though he'll usually get it anyways--will have him back on his feet and ready for action again.

As for everyone commenting on the timeline problems, particuarly Goose:

I am already in the process of hammering out the problems mentioned with the common sense and brainstorming ways to feasibly get around it. My biggest idea at present is going back to the A’s epilogue and having Hayate join the navy instead of the ground forces, which introduces her to an OC captain who’s basically the TSAB’s version of General George S. Goddamn Patton. Where things go from here is anybody’s guess at the moment, but the most likely situation is something occuring during the timeskip which thrusts the Aces into the public spotlight in a very big and very heroic way. The military may not like the new kids on the block, but so far as the masses are concerned, they may as well be real-life superheroes, and as ATC pointed out to me, public support can be an extremely powerful weapon if it’s used right, especially in the political arena.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:47   Link #976
Kha
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Perspectives Goose. Backgrounds, upbringing, life experiences, everything and anything, will affect one's perspective. My foundation module about Clinical Practice (FCP) is almost always about that. The rule of thumb is to not bury it in jargon. However, after 6 years talking with colleagues, hell even just after the first year, I lose the ability to explain what happens in your gut in simple terms; it becomes natural to use jargon. Be humble and correct it, not go Abare and escalate. Because another rule of human nature: Escalation IS human nature, and any wish that the other side is never gonna escalate means you are talking to god. And when escalation happens you only have yourself to blame really, so stop making it worse.

And you want to know why your "milder" posts get deleted because of flamebaiting? My suspicions are confirmed; your posts do exactly that, bait flames. I'm stating facts while putting on as straight a face as I can manage, you are throwing in insults and taunts and matters that is just ribbing but given the context, do the exactly the opposite. Can you blame the guy for flat out turning down your meaningful points and block out your message?

I am not your mother, Goose. I don't have to teach you these things. But lately your behavior has been less than satisfactory in the thread, and sorry to declare that as it was with others that I shall not name, I have judged you to be one of the sources of conflict in this thread. I know not of the best method to intervene; my action might cause more bitter reaction than it is now; but I certainly cannot just standby and do nothing. For better or for worse, here I go.

It's over Goose. I have the higher ground; any more struggles will only be worse for us.

Oh and Tk, you're lower down on the threat list for now. Hope you don't mind me not ranting at you yet. Just had to mention this to be fair since Goose pushed me past point but you haven't and after my experiences here, I better not assume the best.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:49   Link #977
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Now this I'd love to see.

Though I think he'd get along reasonably well with Tesla, concidering her high amount of patience.
Though Felix would probably tease her mercilessly for her crush.
Quote:
We've become too strict, and we don't provide enough actuall support. As you can see, any idea that falls out of the circle of what is concidered 'good' is mercilessly torn into without positive and actually helpfull feedback. That scares people off.
The feedback is there, it's just that we're all getting very, very tired and so the tact and patience levels are dropping. And Liingo at least noted some points I was trying to bring about.

All this bias against comartemis can be argued the other way, ya know.
Quote:
To answer that question:

Spoiler for IS: Silver Retriever:

Looks like Nighty's theory's were right after all.
Keikakku doori... keikakku doori.... KEIKAKKU DORII! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA-

*Me is tranqed*

Quote:
If it doesn't apply to you, it doesn't apply to you. I didn't mention any names, did I? Though really, I wish you'd quit bringing up all those real-life units and references to te American army to justify a point.
*shrugs* If it's happened before, it'll happen again, Keroko. We look to the past to learn from the experiences of those who have gone before us. If I see the similar situations that have happened before I'll bring them out to prove me point. And frankly RF6's situation isn't exactly new. And didn't I also point out that the same situation can apply anywhere?

As for why I use the US military... practicality. More works are written on the US military than any other military in the world.

Quote:
'Common sense' dictates that nobody is 'wowed' by RF6? That's a blatant contradiction to canon. People are in fact wowed by RF6. The Aces are famous because they wow people, and RF6 is no different. Here's a little page from chapter 11:

Spoiler for IS: Silver Retriever:

People are wowed by RF6. Comar's idea may be exagerated, but the core of it is entirely justified.
*headdesks* You're not getitng me. I was talking about the exxageration. Where everyone, even those who RF6 has made to look bad, will be all wowed by them.

Also, Keroko, it is possible to wow people, and yet because you're in a unit/organisation that is making the people you'd normally wow look bad, your ability to wow them drops. This has happened to me in real life.

That said the basic core is, I agree, justified; even in the real world people are wowed by the SAS and Delta Force. It's the execution that was causing the headdesking. Both the SAS and Delta Force took time to build up to the point when they were wowing loads of people, which is exactly how things happen: it takes time to build up a rep. You don't build it overnight.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:52   Link #978
Aaron008R
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Actually, I'd like to scream at you all (for most of those involved) for being such stubborn and hotblooded people. You made Cadia Zwei cry just now...

Cadia Zwei: <cried herself to sleep>

>.>

Listen... I take away the matters and will start looking at the people involved.

1) Comartemis: Remember one of our conversations about ignoring most comments? It's not very healthy to ignore all of them, though. I am gonna take up a stand to ease up on the flak here. But I want results from you as well. Okay?

2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose
the whole point of Cadia compared to fanfic is that fanfic is where you go to get your ego and NxF stories all praised, while Cadia is for OCs and serious charecter writing and development.
Goose.
As much as I appreciate your input which is very relevant most of the time. You have just stepped over the line.

TAKE. BACK. THAT. COMMENT. NOW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Welcome to MGLN Character Creation and Discussion thread.

This thread is a place where you can discuss the already existing characters of Nanoha-verse, as well as your own Original characters, created by taking the principles known about Nanoha-verse into consideration.
I understand that you may have good intentions. But until you take that back, I cannot forgive you badmouthing another thread HERE OF ALL PLACES because you don't like it. NOR am I going to forgive you about asserting that OC is a playground according to solely YOUR specifics. No, you're not being such? How about all that harping in the past about "Learn to play in the same playpen. And if you can't, get out!" rants you were blabbering about in the past? I say that you should take your own advice. Because you're simply pushing a dominant opinion (which was not strictly an original point of OC) more than necessary. And it's not producing good results.

The OC is meant to be more than just that. I don't think we have to start this little vicious cycle just because you don't like a person or a person doesn't agree with you.

Quote:
Discussion means that people will disagree with you. Try to listen to them before ignoring them for trying to ‘kill your darlings’
Read. Comartemis is not listening, you tell me? Yes, he is, to an extent. That's why I made a plea for him to be more receptive.

Now. How about YOU and anybody else with the same viewpoint LISTEN that he is making an AU and needn't be too specific with worldly rationalities?! He should listen more, I agree. But I think you should listen more too!

You're right, he's wrong? You're wrong, he's right? I think all of you have done something wrong. And I don't think that you are all very willing to admit it. That's why I'm here. And all of you needs to cool off your heads and be more receptive. ALL (to those involved) of you!


Listen... Honestly, I'm not too cool with Comartemis' idea too. But that doesn't mean I have to bash him more than necessary. And for God's sake, you and your side also needs an attitude adjustment. If you TRIED being less violent about the approach?!

You have issues IRL? Well, like what Lowe said to Reiji in the old thread, SUCK IT UP and don't bring it here. Same applies for those who dislike Coma. (You people know who you are. And yes, hating a person is an IRL matter.)

You have to cater to a bunch of thickheaded idiots in real life? IT. DOES. NOT. CONCERN. THE. OC. THREAD. AND. YOU. WILL. NOT. USE. IT. AS. AN. INAPPROPRIATE. OUTLET.

This situation is indeed trouble. And lots of rationales and stubbornness on both sides. But I must plead with you people to PLEASE TONE DOWN ON YOUR ATTITUDES!!!

The goal's you are arguing for is not gonna be reached like this! What's happening is that OUTER CADIA ZWEI IS BECOMING A WARZONE OF HOTHEADED IRRATIONALITY!!!

Rationale, no matter how correct, is now being used for such arguments. But no matter how correct your arguments are, if it is not done properly, it will only cause unnecessary trouble.

To summarize a point,

I DO NOT CARE IF ANY OF YOU PEOPLE'S REASONINGS ARE RIGHT OR WRONG. IF YOU CANNOT PRESENT THEM CALMLY AND CIVILLY ENOUGH, THEN THEY WON'T DO ANY GOOD. AT LEAST TRY TO GET ALONG BETTER, PLEASE?! IF THIS CONTINUES IN THE WRONG DIRECTION ANY FURTHER, THEN I WILL TAKE ACTION ACCORDINGLY. MAKING THIS MATTER WORSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

That's it. The report buttons have never looked so appealing to press right now.-_-

Really, do people have to keep making life difficult for everyone? Coma, listen a bit more, please. Hopefully, they would be less scathing now. And you don't have to follow everything, you just need to receive them at a calmer way. Goose, I said what I wanted. Now, if you wanna continue this argument with your attitude further, let us talk in PM or IRC. NOT HERE.


Meeting adjourned. Any further unneeded arguments will be taken to PM's or IRC. No buts.
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Last edited by Aaron008R; 2008-06-07 at 21:09.
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Old 2008-06-07, 11:54   Link #979
Kha
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Age: 28
*hugs and cries with Cadia Zwei*

T_T

Damn I can't sleep... So much left unsaid, so many poisonous selfish thoughts...

EDIT: *looks below*

And so many spectators...
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Old 2008-06-07, 12:04   Link #980
PhoenixFlare
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Came back after a day's absence (discounting lurking), and found myself a big one ...

In one of the many cases, I'd go with Keroko and Kha on this one. Comartemis's ideas (#925) aren't totally out-of-place. What he basically do is just tweak the condition there a little. True, the canon fact is that Riot Force Six is disbanded, but there is nothing holding him back from remaking a Riot Force Six again (I'm lost about the timeline where Comartemis plans his fic, so I'm under the presumption that it's after StrikerS, sorry about that). He could even use any amount of plot device to pull Riot Force Six back again, and make it permanent. His ideas in that quoted post pretty much makes it possible, though it looks like it's slotted during the formation. Either way, it looks quite all right. The only difference in how he handles the plot of the formation of his unit against my Escutcheon (which basically is the same resurrection of Riot Force Six) is that he's planning to put it under Chrono's command. With enough reasons, I don't think that's impossible, with Regius out of the picture.

Some say that placing all three Aces under a single command is going to make the higher-ups cringe from a possible revolution. That's a possibility that no one can deny. But, if they're really planning a coup d'etat, they do not wait until today to execute their plan, do they? Seriously, if they're really planning that, they risk alienating themselves from Chrono, Lindy, Leti, etc. who helped them so much. Fate, of all people, would be suffering a lot, and in Nanoha and Hayate's best interest, they wouldn't do that to their friend (though I must say this is quite a powerful drama tool ). The Aces may not be trusted by the Bureau, but we can trust them not to suddenly run amok with radicalism. If they really hate the Bureau that much, they could've quit it much earlier (their dreams have been outlined in the manga, after all, with Nanoha being fervent enough to become an Air Force Instructor).

Comartemis wasn't actually saying that he'd abolish the bureaucracy entirely, he was just saying that he didn't want the militarism to be so heavy. I think that's fine, because that's what he's good at. Not everyone can write realistic militarism exceptionally (points to myself, included), so reducing its presence is a viable choice.

P/S: And yeah, I find X/1999 to be one of the greatest anime ever produced. One man's meat is another man's poison. One man's trash is another man's treasure. There isn't anything limiting anyone to his or her particular choice but he himself.
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