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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-06-08, 02:05   Link #21
pyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
Macross: Hikaru knows Misa as a commander, and as an older woman with her own tragic past (he saw it on Mars and she admitted as much to him once), and knows Minmay from saving her and watching her crash-and-burn more than he does in her own emotional life. He knows she's really no good for him, but can't help going after her right up till the end, when he has to choose between being in love with someone else for their sake... or for his own as well. And after that, things settle into a friendship between all three which is solid enough that Minmay is willing to leave everything behind to travel with them on Megaroad 01... and from there into the realms of modern legend.
I always saw the Hikaru/Misa/Minmay triangle as a reflection of Hikaru's own personal growth from a brash, flying circus pilot to an ace pilot and a leader of men in his own right. Moving from Minmay to Misa reflected that - though you have to admit Minmay's career as a superstar had a profound effect on their nascent relationship.
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Old 2008-06-08, 02:27   Link #22
Haesslich
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Originally Posted by pyu View Post
I always saw the Hikaru/Misa/Minmay triangle as a reflection of Hikaru's own personal growth from a brash, flying circus pilot to an ace pilot and a leader of men in his own right. Moving from Minmay to Misa reflected that - though you have to admit Minmay's career as a superstar had a profound effect on their nascent relationship.
It's more like Minmay's meteoric rise to superstardom killed any chance of a relationship; he saw himself immediately distanced from her, due to her busy schedule... then Kaifun, who ALSO worked with her, among other things. Hikaru didn't even move from Minmay until the end, when push came to shove, and Misa was leaving with the SDF-2. Yes, he matured as a character over those years, but the maturation wasn't the biggest thing which drove him into Misa's arms - in the end, he had to choose between a selfish love from Minmay, or else the more mutual feelings that Misa shared with him.

One wanted him to stop flying, to quit everything so they could play house... while with the other, they found they'd strengthened one another over their years of association - he became more assertive and his judgement was more tempered by Misa's influence, while Misa learned to enjoy life again and to not fear the dark realms of the heart because of Hikaru.
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Old 2008-06-08, 04:22   Link #23
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I'm dragging Westlo's and Swampstorm's posts from ep. 10 discussion thread to here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm
We know that Ranka is much clearer about her feelings. But to whom where those feelings directed? Was it to Alto, or to Sheryl? As Ranka points out, the crux of Mao's conflict lies with the fact that she loved the same guy as Sara, not with the fact that Mao loved Shin on its own. It seems to me that Ranka's resolution has less to do with making a commitment with Alto, and more to do with taking a stand with Sheryl.

Not that it's a bad thing for Ranka's situation for Alto, either. It's just that Ranka's realization seems more to develop her issues with Sheryl than it does with developing a connection with Alto.
Ranka's fangirly love for Sheryl toned down when she saw Alto and her together for the first time. When Alto gave her a ticket to Sheryl's concert, she wasn't as ecstatic as she was in the first episode. The thought of Alto with Sheryl greatly saddens her. I think she still admires Sheryl, but there's no doubt the one Ranka's looking at is Alto.

This wasn't in the original Macross 0 movie, but before she kissed Alto, she indirectly voiced out Mao's thoughts in her head--that is clearly analogous to her own feelings. She said, "Do you love my sister(my idol Sheryl), Shin(Alto)? Look at me too, because I also--" Love you? I thought it was pretty apparent that this small gesture said a lot about her developing feelings for Alto himself--not her issues with Sheryl 'loving' him as well. I think to Ranka, Alto and Sheryl are already going out now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm
Hmm... I wonder. Why do people sing or fly?

I wouldn't worry so much about the common ground between Sheryl and Alto, though. I see some much bigger obstacles for them ahead, especially in the form of one recurring earring...
Alto and Ranka do have the same mentality. They both have this "I'm not good enough" way of thinking. They both have self-esteem issues, though Ranka was shown to have overcome it a bit in this episode. That's the sole reason why I said, Alto and Ranka relate more in terms of mentality.

About Wesley84's favorite thing--Sheryl's earring, I think that ties in more to Sheryl and not to Alto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
What's Ranka's trump card?.... I expect episodes 13-17 to be the point where Ranka finally makes a move.
Ranka's trump card--so far. ^__^

Spoiler for Macross preview; line 7:


I can't see Ranka saying this to anyone but Alto. Unless Alto is unconscious or can't hear her, Alto's not going to react with a "K. Fine." For sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
I really doubt we're going to get stuff like Ranka seeing Sheryl and Alto kiss again, and hang out somewhere together and overhear Sheryl on Alto's phone etc for the next 10 episodes... Also I really can't see what else they can do with Sheryl to make her develop her character when it comes to the main trio anyway.
Yes. Ranka did all the cliches, but I don't think the jealousy ends in episode 10 She'll do more cliche stuffs. As for Sheryl's own development, seeing that she always gets what she wants--coz she earned it--Alto becoming an exception to that will serve as a good character development for her. She'll fight for her own happiness...I guess. The underdog image of Sheryl still can't sink in. x__x Sheryl also has her own past. Coming to terms with that definitely will make a great character development. Either way, Kawamori will take care of her. Plus, we don't even know if Ranka and Sheryl are supposed to have even roles here. I don't think Macross history is absolute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
Ranka's rise to stardom doesn't mean Sheryl's career will go crashing down like a lot of Ranka fanboys hoped for a few months ago. That sort of thing just isn't logical and makes no sense, and they do different style of songs anyway...
I never thought I'd hear you say this lol It really will be unrealistic if Sheryl's popularity suddenly dropped because of Ranka. She's too popular. It would take a second season for all her hard work to slip away from her. If ever the story miraculously took this route, they better have a believable reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
It doesn't matter how much Alto cares for Ranka she can still easily die.. there's a few Kawamori series where the lovers don't end up together.. and bittersweet endings seem to be gaining popularity these days...
I have faith in hime.
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Old 2008-06-08, 06:33   Link #24
Westlo
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Ranka's trump card--so far. ^__^

Spoiler for Macross preview; line 7:


I can't see Ranka saying this to anyone but Alto. Unless Alto is unconscious or can't hear her, Alto's not going to react with a "K. Fine." For sure.
Ah yes but we don't know the context the line is being said in, for all we know it could well be said in another movie. She's a star now and while she more than likely considers herself a singer first and foremost what brought her to stardom was the Zero movie. I would be surprised if she isn't shown shooting any other movies over the course of the series though obviously they won't be giving as much focus as the Zero movie. The line could also be said after Alto decides on Sheryl, could be said if she leaves Frontier due to plot/Varja related events. It's certainly not a winners exclusive line.

Quote:
Yes. Ranka did all the cliches, but I don't think the jealousy ends in episode 10 She'll do more cliche stuffs. As for Sheryl's own development, seeing that she always gets what she wants--coz she earned it--Alto becoming an exception to that will serve as a good character development for her. She'll fight for her own happiness...I guess.
I'm sure the jealousy issues continue in the next few episodes but after that...

Quote:
The underdog image of Sheryl still can't sink in. x__x
It will I'm sure, and it will win her even more fans unless she gets too emo with it like say Mao from Kimikiss.

Quote:
Sheryl also has her own past. Coming to terms with that definitely will make a great character development.
Ah yes but I was talking about character development in relation to the actual triangle itself and not to plot issues. Her and Alto continuing on as they have been for the last 5 episodes with jealous Ranka getting undertones every episode isn't exactly going to give us good character development for her.

Quote:
Either way, Kawamori will take care of her.
Yes I'm confident he will by pairing her up with Alto

Quote:
Plus, we don't even know if Ranka and Sheryl are supposed to have even roles here. I don't think Macross history is absolute.
I don't know how you can say otherwise, these two are definitely not Minmei and Misa in terms of screen time. Sheryl has a few more scenes in the OP, is more a focus of the ED (duh it's her song), was #2 on the cast list for 8 of the ten episodes. Will be singing both the new OP (with Ranka) and the ED and both those songs should be used in the show. Every episode that focuses on the other more has undertones for the other girl. I think Ranka has had slightly more screen time but Sheryl has had more "impact" out of her time so to say.

Quote:
I never thought I'd hear you say this lol It really will be unrealistic if Sheryl's popularity suddenly dropped because of Ranka. She's too popular. It would take a second season for all her hard work to slip away from her. If ever the story miraculously took this route, they better have a believable reason.
I always found the notion to be ridiculous tbh, sure it would've made for good character development for Sheryl but it's just not realistic unless we have time skips. The first episode states she's been #1 on the charts for 16 weeks in a row prior to her Frontier tour, in the manga it says her "Crystal voice" is the most beautiful next to Mylene Jenius.

I can see Ranka being more popular on Frontier (home town girl!) but it makes no sense for Sheryl's popularity to go down even if Ranka's is higher. (and she would still be popular everywhere else in the galaxy anyway!) I mean it's not like Ranka Lee is going to do a 50 Cent and try and obliterate Sheryl/Ja Rule from the charts....

Quote:
I have faith in hime.
And if a lot of people think like that it just makes that sort of ending even more shocking/powerful doesn't it? Of course I think we can agree that if they go with a bittersweet ending it will clearly be Alto and Ranka and not Alto and Sheryl.

That's why the chances of Ranka dying imo are quite high, because I figure it too be significant chance if pair her up with Alto (bittersweet ending!). As well as the chance of it happening if Sheryl is paired up with Alto instead.,Sheryl being the Isamu to Ranka's Guld so to say.

I still think that at the end of the show Ranka will be a massive star which doesn't bode well for her being paired with Alto. It would be a long distance relationship unless she stayed exclusively on Frontier. I also don't see Ranka giving up on stardom since it will be new to her, if anyone gives up on stardom it will be Sheryl because she's found something better. Also going by her episode 5 comment of "They come out on their own whim... *look on her face changes* on their own whim..." her path to stardom might not have been as nice as Ranka's. Add in the chances of Grace being connected to Brera/Varja and probably someone ordered to watch over her.
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Old 2008-06-08, 08:15   Link #25
Swampstorm
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I'm dragging Westlo's and Swampstorm's posts from ep. 10 discussion thread to here.
Aw, man! I didn't want to be dragged in here!

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Alto and Ranka do have the same mentality. They both have this "I'm not good enough" way of thinking. They both have self-esteem issues, though Ranka was shown to have overcome it a bit in this episode. That's the sole reason why I said, Alto and Ranka relate more in terms of mentality.
When you're still a teenager, there's nothing all that unusual about having self-esteem issues, nor is it unusual to latch on to the first thing that gives you the slightest bit of encouragement. Codependant relationships aren't quite so cute anymore once you move out of that phase of your life, though.

Relationships are built off of common interests and shared ideals, rather than on mutual pity. What we need to see is more development from Ranka in understanding Alto's passion for flying, or in why he needs to fight (one thing that she'll need to overcome here is her fear of loss, seeing how Ozma was forced to keep his piloting a secret for all these years in order to avoid making Ranka's trauma recurr). In short, the part that needs to be developed next is why Ranka wants to be with Alto, rather than why she doesn't want to lose him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
About Wesley84's favorite thing--Sheryl's earring, I think that ties in more to Sheryl and not to Alto
My point was that if something happens to Sheryl, then it doesn't really matter how great of a couple she makes with Alto.

I'm a pessimist when it comes to things like this.
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Old 2008-06-08, 11:01   Link #26
herbert
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Sheryl has a few more scenes in the OP, is more a focus of the ED (duh it's her song), was #2 on the cast list for 8 of the ten episodes. Will be singing both the new OP (with Ranka) and the ED and both those songs should be used in the show. Every episode that focuses on the other more has undertones for the other girl. I think Ranka has had slightly more screen time but Sheryl has had more "impact" out of her time so to say.
Sorry, Westlo, Ranka has got 3 times of #2 in the cast list. Ep2, 4, and 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Ranka's trump card--so far. ^__^

Spoiler for Macross preview; line 7:


I can't see Ranka saying this to anyone but Alto. Unless Alto is unconscious or can't hear her, Alto's not going to react with a "K. Fine." For sure.
You call it a trump card for Ranka? If you do mean it then it would the second wildest intrepration on the special preview only next to one I have heard quite a while ago.
Spoiler for most crazy thing I have ever heard about, so don't take it seriously:


Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Alto and Ranka do have the same mentality. They both have this "I'm not good enough" way of thinking. They both have self-esteem issues, though Ranka was shown to have overcome it a bit in this episode. That's the sole reason why I said, Alto and Ranka relate more in terms of mentality.
I have to disagree with you on this. There is one big difference between Alto' and Ranka's way of thinking. Sure, they do both recognize they are not good enough but Ranka just accepts the fact and do nothing until someone poke her forehead while Alto never stops trying to be better.
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Old 2008-06-08, 12:29   Link #27
Swampstorm
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You know, if you really want to know the outcome of a romantic pairing, you should just find a flower and pull the petals off one by one. All this cast list stuff is too complicated.

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Spoiler for most crazy thing I have ever heard about, so don't take it seriously:
Spoiler for How to make effective predictions:
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Old 2008-06-08, 13:02   Link #28
Aquifina
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Relationships are built off of common interests and shared ideals, rather than on mutual pity. What we need to see is more development from Ranka in understanding Alto's passion for flying, or in why he needs to fight (one thing that she'll need to overcome here is her fear of loss, seeing how Ozma was forced to keep his piloting a secret for all these years in order to avoid making Ranka's trauma recurr). In short, the part that needs to be developed next is why Ranka wants to be with Alto, rather than why she doesn't want to lose him.
I think you're underestimating how much of a role Ranka already plays in why Alto flies and, perhaps more importantly, *fights*. Yes, it's partly his sense of determination, and his desire to control his own fate--that's definitely a similarity between him and Sheryl. But there's more to it in that. Why does Alto join SMS?--he joins for reasons fundamentally linked to Ranka. While Alto complains in ep. 1 about the limitations he's laboring under, it's not at all clear he wants a military career--at least, that's what I recall from his early conversation with Luca about the matter, and he doesn't seem thrilled with the offer given by LT Glass after his first engagement. And, of course, he gets into that fighter in the first place to save Ranka.

Later, in ep. 3, Michel challenges Alto on the whole running away issue, and he never really answers that challenge. Indeeds, he still hasn't answered that question. What does happen is he runs into Ranka at the observatory in ep. 3. Of course, he gives Ranka some important encouragement, but I think in encouraging her, he encourages himself. Alto goes very quickly from frustrated adolescent to thoughtful contentment--surely there's a significance to that. And then in ep. 4, we see Alto go downright apeshit against that Vajra when he thinks of what had happened to Ranka.

IMO, Alto doesn't just fly for the sake of flying--I think Sheryl sings for the sake of singing, or rather, for the sake of excelling at her chosen profession. I think Alto does genuinely enjoy flying for similar reasons, but in ep. 3, Ozma tells Alto to think on "What you want to do, what for, and why you fight." I think Alto *fights* in large part to protect, and the person he's always protecting just happens to be Ranka, which is very much part of the "why" and "what for" in Ozma's query. Which is, of course, why Ozma *fights*--highlighting another similarity between the two characters (I remember Ozma's CO in ep. 4 commenting on how Alto's flying reminded him of Ozma in his younger days).

Finally, I think it's a mistake to characterize Ranka and Alto's relationship as somehow based on mutual pity; they both really help each other, but in different ways. Alto almost drives himself to distraction with his determination at times, because he frequently doesn't know how to direct it in a productive way. Ranka provides a goal for him IMO, but she's more than that--I think she has a calming effect on him. Again, returning to the observatory scene, Alto goes from snarling frustration at Michel's accusation to contentedly folding a paper airplane, which seems to be associated with the happier parts of Alto's childhood (I think there was footage of that in the latest preview). When Ranka sings Aimo, Alto says "That's right," which I interpret as his own resolution that his desire to fight goes beyond his family problems--the same question he couldn't answer himself before he ran into Ranka. I also think it's significant that it's Aimo that serves as the bridge in between the observatory scene, the burial, and Alto's official enlistment. Yes, he speaks brave words about going it alone and independence, but he really did need Ranka and her song to arrive at that conclusion.
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Old 2008-06-08, 13:21   Link #29
Westlo
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Quote:
I think you're underestimating how much of a role Ranka already plays in why Alto flies and, perhaps more importantly, *fights*.
Ranka has played no role in why he flies, fights yes flies no.

Quote:
IMO, Alto doesn't just fly for the sake of flying--I think Sheryl sings for the sake of singing, or rather, for the sake of excelling at her chosen profession. I think Alto does genuinely enjoy flying for similar reasons, but in ep. 3, Ozma tells Alto to think on "What you want to do, what for, and why you fight."
You're switching the topic from flying to fighting even though they obviously overlap considering he's flying when he fights. Alto's love for flying comes across to me as similar to Isamu Dyson from Macross Plus, though I think he's safe from having one of Ranka and Sheryl doing a Myung and spurning him because they might think he loves flying more than them...

Alto and Sheryl fly and sing because they just do, Ranka sings to be heard and I think Alto would go gar for anyone he considers a friend, see his reaction to Luca being taken in episode 7.

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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
and now in Macross F, we have what appear to be TWO triangles going. Makes you wonder whether we'll see any development on the secondary front there.
I do wonder if we will and I'm hoping we do. I'm curious to see whether will get any information about the previous relationship between Cathy and Ozma or will we just have to read in between the lines. Considering how Cathy commented on how she wished he worried about her as much as he did Ranka I wonder if it was sorta similar to Isamu and Myung, just without Guld. The you love flying more than you love me thing.
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Old 2008-06-08, 13:30   Link #30
Aquifina
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
You're switching the topic from flying to fighting even though they obviously overlap considering he's flying when he fights. Alto's love for flying comes across to me as similar to Isamu Dyson from Macross Plus, though I think he's safe from having one of Ranka and Sheryl doing a Myung and spurning him because they might think he loves flying more than them...
Well, considering the fact that Alto's now a military pilot in the middle of a war, I would say that fighting is more important than flying. And the crucial life choice Alto has made so far in this series--joining SMS--was about choosing to fight, more than it was about choosing to fly.

Furthermore, before he joined SMS, it's unclear how Alto was going to find a way of flying that would be fulfilling to him. Unless he became Sheryl's main aerial acrobat or something. But he ended up saving Ranka instead, and joining SMS.
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Old 2008-06-08, 13:42   Link #31
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
Well, considering the fact that Alto's now a military pilot in the middle of a war, I would say that fighting is more important than flying. And the crucial life choice Alto has made so far in this series--joining SMS--was about choosing to fight, more than it was about choosing to fly.
Actually going by episode 9 I don't think he even knows why he's fighting atm and when he played Michael's comments in his head again it was images of his father, not Ranka that flashed through his mind. (AltoxFather ending confirmed!) Sheryl also asked him why he joined SMS in that episode, he didn't/couldn't answer her, Michael or himself on why he did. While Ranka played a part I don't think it's as clear cut as you think it is otherwise it wouldn't have been brought up to much in episode 9 and I expect it to be brought up again.
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Old 2008-06-08, 13:43   Link #32
Swampstorm
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Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
I think you're underestimating how much of a role Ranka already plays in why Alto flies and, perhaps more importantly, *fights*. Yes, it's partly his sense of determination, and his desire to control his own fate--that's definitely a similarity between him and Sheryl. But there's more to it in that. Why does Alto join SMS?--he joins for reasons fundamentally linked to Ranka. While Alto complains in ep. 1 about the limitations he's laboring under, it's not at all clear he wants a military career--at least, that's what I recall from his early conversation with Luca about the matter, and he doesn't seem thrilled with the offer given by LT Glass after his first engagement. And, of course, he gets into that fighter in the first place to save Ranka.
In episode nine, Sheryl asked Alto why he joined SMS in the first place. Immediately after, we see him remembering Michael's statement that Alto ran away from home to play war. At that point, he states that he didn't run away. So his reason for joining isn't really linked to Ranka.

While Alto first gets into a VF to protect Ranka, I doubt that he would have simply watched and let anyone die, regardless of who it was. Could you point me to a specific scene where Alto says that he's piloting for Ranka's sake? And even if he is, then what does that have to do with developing a romantic interest on his part?

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Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
Later, in ep. 3, Michel challenges Alto on the whole running away issue, and he never really answers that challenge. Indeeds, he still hasn't answered that question. What does happen is he runs into Ranka at the observatory in ep. 3. Of course, he gives Ranka some important encouragement, but I think in encouraging her, he encourages himself. Alto goes very quickly from frustrated adolescent to thoughtful contentment--surely there's a significance to that.
What would that significance be?

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Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
And then in ep. 4, we see Alto go downright apeshit against that Vajra when he thinks of what had happened to Ranka.
Yes, I'd imagine that the thought would make him angry, given his sense of justice. But what's the significance of that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
IMO, Alto doesn't just fly for the sake of flying--I think Sheryl sings for the sake of singing, or rather, for the sake of excelling at her chosen profession. I think Alto does genuinely enjoy flying for similar reasons, but in ep. 3, Ozma tells Alto to think on "What you want to do, what for, and why you fight." I think Alto *fights* in large part to protect, and the person he's always protecting just happens to be Ranka, which is very much part of the "why" and "what for" in Ozma's query. Which is, of course, why Ozma *fights*--highlighting another similarity between the two characters (I remember Ozma's CO in ep. 4 commenting on how Alto's flying reminded him of Ozma in his younger days).
Sheryl doesn't always sing for the pure enjoyment of singing. When Galaxy comes under attack, she sings for her homeland and draws media attention towards the plight of the civilians back at home. She realizes that if it's Alto's job to fight, then it's her job to sing. Both of them are doing their part to defend Galaxy, even though in peaceful times, each would be driven by the pure enjoyment of their respective crafts.

Ozma fights to protect Ranka because he feels guilt over what happened. He also thinks of her as his little sister. I don't think that's what you intended on paralleling.

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Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
Finally, I think it's a mistake to characterize Ranka and Alto's relationship as somehow based on mutual pity; they both really help each other, but in different ways. Alto almost drives himself to distraction with his determination at times, because he frequently doesn't know how to direct it in a productive way. Ranka provides a goal for him IMO, but she's more than that--I think she has a calming effect on him. Again, returning to the observatory scene, Alto goes from snarling frustration at Michel's accusation to contentedly folding a paper airplane, which seems to be associated with the happier parts of Alto's childhood (I think there was footage of that in the latest preview). When Ranka sings Aimo, Alto says "That's right," which I interpret as his own resolution that his desire to fight goes beyond his family problems--the same question he couldn't answer himself before he ran into Ranka. I also think it's significant that it's Aimo that serves as the bridge in between the observatory scene, the burial, and Alto's official enlistment. Yes, he speaks brave words about going it alone and independence, but he really did need Ranka and her song to arrive at that conclusion.
What does this have to do with romantic relationships?

It's going to be necessarily harder for anyone to prove a romantic interest on Alto's part, since we don't really know all that much about him to begin with. You should probably start by trying to elucidate what the nature of Ranka's interest in Alto is. We know that she thinks that he's helpful and pretty, but I was thinking about something more along the lines of shared interests, goals, or ideals. What happens during peacetime when there's nothing to protect?
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Old 2008-06-08, 13:57   Link #33
herbert
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I think you're underestimating how much of a role Ranka already plays in why Alto flies and, perhaps more importantly, *fights*. Yes, it's partly his sense of determination, and his desire to control his own fate--that's definitely a similarity between him and Sheryl. But there's more to it in that. Why does Alto join SMS?--he joins for reasons fundamentally linked to Ranka. While Alto complains in ep. 1 about the limitations he's laboring under, it's not at all clear he wants a military career--at least, that's what I recall from his early conversation with Luca about the matter, and he doesn't seem thrilled with the offer given by LT Glass after his first engagement. And, of course, he gets into that fighter in the first place to save Ranka.

Later, in ep. 3, Michel challenges Alto on the whole running away issue, and he never really answers that challenge. Indeeds, he still hasn't answered that question. What does happen is he runs into Ranka at the observatory in ep. 3. Of course, he gives Ranka some important encouragement, but I think in encouraging her, he encourages himself. Alto goes very quickly from frustrated adolescent to thoughtful contentment--surely there's a significance to that. And then in ep. 4, we see Alto go downright apeshit against that Vajra when he thinks of what had happened to Ranka.

IMO, Alto doesn't just fly for the sake of flying--I think Sheryl sings for the sake of singing, or rather, for the sake of excelling at her chosen profession. I think Alto does genuinely enjoy flying for similar reasons, but in ep. 3, Ozma tells Alto to think on "What you want to do, what for, and why you fight." I think Alto *fights* in large part to protect, and the person he's always protecting just happens to be Ranka, which is very much part of the "why" and "what for" in Ozma's query. Which is, of course, why Ozma *fights*--highlighting another similarity between the two characters (I remember Ozma's CO in ep. 4 commenting on how Alto's flying reminded him of Ozma in his younger days).

Finally, I think it's a mistake to characterize Ranka and Alto's relationship as somehow based on mutual pity; they both really help each other, but in different ways. Alto almost drives himself to distraction with his determination at times, because he frequently doesn't know how to direct it in a productive way. Ranka provides a goal for him IMO, but she's more than that--I think she has a calming effect on him. Again, returning to the observatory scene, Alto goes from snarling frustration at Michel's accusation to contentedly folding a paper airplane, which seems to be associated with the happier parts of Alto's childhood (I think there was footage of that in the latest preview). When Ranka sings Aimo, Alto says "That's right," which I interpret as his own resolution that his desire to fight goes beyond his family problems--the same question he couldn't answer himself before he ran into Ranka. I also think it's significant that it's Aimo that serves as the bridge in between the observatory scene, the burial, and Alto's official enlistment. Yes, he speaks brave words about going it alone and independence, but he really did need Ranka and her song to arrive at that conclusion.
I have tried my best to understand what you have said but unfortunately I have failed. Where is romance? Or you mean Ozma loves Ranka since he fights exclusively for Ranka's sake? Stay on topic or go to Alto's thread if you only want to tell us how largely impacts Ranka has had on Alto (not I agree with you at that part but I don't want to go off topic). Have one thing in mind importance doesn't equate to love. Tell us how your observations show Alto love Ranka.
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Old 2008-06-08, 17:00   Link #34
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Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
But there's more to it in that. Why does Alto join SMS?--he joins for reasons fundamentally linked to Ranka. While Alto complains in ep. 1 about the limitations he's laboring under, it's not at all clear he wants a military career--at least, that's what I recall from his early conversation with Luca about the matter, and he doesn't seem thrilled with the offer given by LT Glass after his first engagement. And, of course, he gets into that fighter in the first place to save Ranka.
That is where you are mistaken. Alto simply wanted to fly, but a civilian line of business was simply, according to him, boring. Alto also had no choice but to join SMS, seeing how the military threatened to arrest him. SMS was akin to a third-way out for Alto, and one to conveniently fulfill his desire of flying.

He had a strong desire to simply fly way before he met Ranka, and hes always dreamed of piloting the newest Valkyrie. Thats been revealed very early on in the story. It has almost nothing to do with Ranka.

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Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
What does happen is he runs into Ranka at the observatory in ep. 3. Of course, he gives Ranka some important encouragement, but I think in encouraging her, he encourages himself. Alto goes very quickly from frustrated adolescent to thoughtful contentment--surely there's a significance to that. And then in ep. 4, we see Alto go downright apeshit against that Vajra when he thinks of what had happened to Ranka.
Yeah, we also saw Hikaru going apeshit in DYRL as well as the original TV show when the life of Minmei was threatened. That didn't stop him from choosing Misa later on.

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IMO, Alto doesn't just fly for the sake of flying--I think Sheryl sings for the sake of singing, or rather, for the sake of excelling at her chosen profession. I think Alto does genuinely enjoy flying for similar reasons, but in ep. 3, Ozma tells Alto to think on "What you want to do, what for, and why you fight." I think Alto *fights* in large part to protect, and the person he's always protecting just happens to be Ranka, which is very much part of the "why" and "what for" in Ozma's query.
Again, it has nothing to do with Ranka. Alto also stated, quite early on, that he yearn for the skies because it also gave him a sense of freedom and independence. This had nothing to do with Ranka. And, based on your argument, I can also say that Alto fights for the sake of Sheryl, who entrusted her earring to Alto during Episode 7. Alto shown a lot more affection to Sheryl's objects more than he does with anything from Ranka.

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Finally, I think it's a mistake to characterize Ranka and Alto's relationship as somehow based on mutual pity; they both really help each other, but in different ways. Alto almost drives himself to distraction with his determination at times, because he frequently doesn't know how to direct it in a productive way. Ranka provides a goal for him IMO, but she's more than that--I think she has a calming effect on him. Again, returning to the observatory scene, Alto goes from snarling frustration at Michel's accusation to contentedly folding a paper airplane, which seems to be associated with the happier parts of Alto's childhood (I think there was footage of that in the latest preview). When Ranka sings Aimo, Alto says "That's right," which I interpret as his own resolution that his desire to fight goes beyond his family problems--the same question he couldn't answer himself before he ran into Ranka. I also think it's significant that it's Aimo that serves as the bridge in between the observatory scene, the burial, and Alto's official enlistment. Yes, he speaks brave words about going it alone and independence, but he really did need Ranka and her song to arrive at that conclusion.
And that, is just you thinking too much.

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Old 2008-06-08, 17:29   Link #35
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I have to disagree with you on this. There is one big difference between Alto' and Ranka's way of thinking. Sure, they do both recognize they are not good enough but Ranka just accepts the fact and do nothing until someone poke her forehead while Alto never stops trying to be better.
You do remember that the reason Mikhail kept bugging Alto about running away was that the piloting thing was due to Alto rejecting family tradition and doing nothing about it except fleeing? Part of it, i suspect, is that he felt he wasn't good enough to ever satisfy his father despite being famed for his performances... or so the flashbacks suggest. This puts them closer together in attitude, until Sheryl starts pushing the two of them towards their own destinies.

Look at some of his lines earlier on, and even in episode 5, where he says he hates city-ships because the 'sky is too low', a comment he made all the way back in the beginning of episode 1. He wanted to fly to escape his father and his past, since he didn't think he could transcend either by staying on the ground.

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Originally Posted by Westlo
Actually going by episode 9 I don't think he even knows why he's fighting atm and when he played Michael's comments in his head again it was images of his father, not Ranka that flashed through his mind. (AltoxFather ending confirmed!) Sheryl also asked him why he joined SMS in that episode, he didn't/couldn't answer her, Michael or himself on why he did. While Ranka played a part I don't think it's as clear cut as you think it is otherwise it wouldn't have been brought up to much in episode 9 and I expect it to be brought up again.
Y'know, this supports my point more than some other posts I've made have. Thank you. Although he jumped into the cockpit to protect Ranka, and then went psycho after seeing a Vajra in Episode 4 (again thinking back to Ranka)... that wasn't why he flew initially. Now, he's flying partly because he WANTS to, and because it does protect the things important to him - his relationships with people outside the family, of which he has damned few. He's constantly rejected ties to others because they usually wanted to get to know him for his roles, or the roles he might play in the future, or due to his family... which is why he has a reputation of shooting down all the girls who've made advances on him at school (reference: Ep 5's locker room girls' conversation).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm
While Alto first gets into a VF to protect Ranka, I doubt that he would have simply watched and let anyone die, regardless of who it was. Could you point me to a specific scene where Alto says that he's piloting for Ranka's sake? And even if he is, then what does that have to do with developing a romantic interest on his part?
Episode 4, during the Vajra Emo incident - he's basically piloting to fight for her sake initially. Alto first flashes back to Ozma's explanation of Ranka's past (orphaned by Vajra), then to their second meeting (courtesy of the Vajra), then becomes Shinn Asuka for about 30 seconds. At the end of the episode, when Ranka asks why he joined SMS, he glanced at her for a moment, then went on to fold his plane muttering about the 'chance' it provided. It sounded something like an excuse there, since he probably didn't QUITE know why he was flying in the first place except as an escape.

Episode 5 was where he got his explanation of why he SHOULD fly - because it was something that he would keep trying to do, if he want meant to fly, as Sheryl sings and Klein fights in a Queadlunn-Rauu. Episode 6 shows him embracing that reason, which is probably why he ends up fighting like a madman next episode even as he feels himself out of his depth watching the supposedly slower, more sluggish Armored VF-25 outperforming him due to Ozma's skill and burning passion.

However, we're not sure if there's anything ROMANTIC on his side yet. I suspect his upbringing has confused his gender identity a tad.. or at least where romances are concerned, since I've yet to see him really think of any girl in a romantic way. Recognize sex appeal? Heck yes. Romantic interests? Not a whit - and he's actively chased away any girl who has, on the assumption they wanted Sakura-hime or a tie to the Saotome family.

Alto's quite fond of Ranka, and wants to protect and encourage her... but then again, so's Sheryl. Yet, at the same time, Alto's quite fond of Sheryl and feels free enough with her to argue and yell at her when he thinks she's wrong or being a bitch... but that doesn't imply love. Lust, quite possibly - she's quite sexy, but not necessarily love there either.

However, the foundations FOR love have been laid between those two... and Ranka's busily trying to set up foundations for herself and Alto, now she's starting to recognize that she was jealous at the mall, then at the "Legend of Zero" shoot.
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Old 2008-06-08, 19:38   Link #36
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Episode 4, during the Vajra Emo incident - he's basically piloting to fight for her sake initially. Alto first flashes back to Ozma's explanation of Ranka's past (orphaned by Vajra), then to their second meeting (courtesy of the Vajra), then becomes Shinn Asuka for about 30 seconds. At the end of the episode, when Ranka asks why he joined SMS, he glanced at her for a moment, then went on to fold his plane muttering about the 'chance' it provided. It sounded something like an excuse there, since he probably didn't QUITE know why he was flying in the first place except as an escape.
The only issue that I have with that is that we don't see that flashback before he first decides to get into the cockpit. It's one thing to remember a source of anger in the heat of battle, but it's another thing all together to make a decision to pilot based on that incident. Since Alto makes his choice by the end of episode three, he was not privy to the specifics when he decided to pilot.

In episode three, there are two lines that strike me as important:
First, after being rescued by Michael and dropping into the shelter:
"I was saved by him again."
The second, when Sheryl tells Alto that he should try to be supportive to Ranka when they are trapped inside:
"Shut up! If I could, I'd say it as many times as you want! But as I am now..."
These lines are spoken even before Alto learns about Ranka's past. Both convey a his feelings of helplessness at dealing with the circumstances around him. Based on this, I suspect that retaking control of his life could be the driving factor in his decision to pilot.

As a later example, when he learns about how Ozma kept his piloting a secret from Ranka, he becomes furious, but curiously, the line that he delivers is:
"I would have wanted to know everything."
His choice of words give his response an oddly personal twist. Again, his intense dislike of being left in the dark links back to the control issue; with knowledge comes the freedom to make your own decisions. It could have a more specific meaning as well, but for that we'll have to wait and see.

The statement regarding 'a chance' is meant to show Ranka that the SMS's offer had a similar meaning to himself as the Miss Macross competition did to Ranka (that's why he follows up with "Which is why you shouldn't give up either.") It represents a chance to break free of his past life and gain control over his life.

It's practically impossible to figure out what Alto's motives are for certain based on what little information we have, but this is my weak attempt to piece what we have together. Hopefully next episode will give us more of Alto's back story, so that we can have something a little more solid to work with.

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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
Episode 5 was where he got his explanation of why he SHOULD fly - because it was something that he would keep trying to do, if he want meant to fly, as Sheryl sings and Klein fights in a Queadlunn-Rauu. Episode 6 shows him embracing that reason, which is probably why he ends up fighting like a madman next episode even as he feels himself out of his depth watching the supposedly slower, more sluggish Armored VF-25 outperforming him due to Ozma's skill and burning passion.
This is good, but I wonder at the distinction between flying and combat. They could very well be the same thing in Alto's mind, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

Then again, though, Sheryl uses the term "fly" to imply combat in episode six, so perhaps that distinction hasn't really been explored.

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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
However, we're not sure if there's anything ROMANTIC on his side yet. I suspect his upbringing has confused his gender identity a tad.. or at least where romances are concerned, since I've yet to see him really think of any girl in a romantic way. Recognize sex appeal? Heck yes. Romantic interests? Not a whit - and he's actively chased away any girl who has, on the assumption they wanted Sakura-hime or a tie to the Saotome family.
Also, based on episode three, I think that he feels too keenly his own helplessness. So perhaps his aloofness (to both girls and guys) has something to do with the fact that he doesn't see himself as dependable? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
Alto's quite fond of Ranka, and wants to protect and encourage her... but then again, so's Sheryl. Yet, at the same time, Alto's quite fond of Sheryl and feels free enough with her to argue and yell at her when he thinks she's wrong or being a bitch... but that doesn't imply love. Lust, quite possibly - she's quite sexy, but not necessarily love there either.

However, the foundations FOR love have been laid between those two... and Ranka's busily trying to set up foundations for herself and Alto, now she's starting to recognize that she was jealous at the mall, then at the "Legend of Zero" shoot.
More than not loving, I'm not sure that Alto is in a position where he's ready for a romantic relationship, yet. As Sheryl points out in episode ten, his past is quite a delicate issue, and he doesn't seem ready to share it, yet. It's difficult to be in a serious relationship when you're always holding a part of yourself back. I think he'll need to resolve some of his own issues first, before he starts thinking about whom he wants to kiss.
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Old 2008-06-08, 20:14   Link #37
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Aw, man! I didn't want to be dragged in here!
Yeah right lol

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Originally Posted by Westlo
I don't know how you can say otherwise, these two are definitely not Minmei and Misa in terms of screen time. Sheryl has a few more scenes in the OP, is more a focus of the ED (duh it's her song), was #2 on the cast list for 8 of the ten episodes. Will be singing both the new OP (with Ranka) and the ED and both those songs should be used in the show. Every episode that focuses on the other more has undertones for the other girl. I think Ranka has had slightly more screen time but Sheryl has had more "impact" out of her time so to say.
Sheryl scenes having more "impact" than Ranka's is nothing more but an opinion. I don't think Sheryl's 0.5-1 second flashes in the OP gave her more screentime than Ranka. It also doesn't help that the OP's lyrics pertain to Ranka. I'll give Sheryl the ED theme, but if you want to get technical about the cast listing, just look at the official website and magazines lol Anyway, I'm just saying that the OP/ED and random cast listings at the end each episodes etc etc aren't enough proof to support that the two girls will have an even role IN the story. Although it's true that the producers gave Sheryl more songs than Ranka. Compensation? She is the galactic fairy, afterall.

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Originally Posted by Westlo
I also don't see Ranka giving up on stardom since it will be new to her, if anyone gives up on stardom it will be Sheryl because she's found something better.
After episode 11 preview, Ranka realizing how lonely it is 'at the top' seems to be the more likely route she will take. Without the Alto, Ranka is not happy.

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Originally Posted by Aquifina
Finally, I think it's a mistake to characterize Ranka and Alto's relationship as somehow based on mutual pity; they both really help each other, but in different ways. Alto almost drives himself to distraction with his determination at times, because he frequently doesn't know how to direct it in a productive way. Ranka provides a goal for him IMO, but she's more than that--I think she has a calming effect on him. Again, returning to the observatory scene, Alto goes from snarling frustration at Michel's accusation to contentedly folding a paper airplane, which seems to be associated with the happier parts of Alto's childhood (I think there was footage of that in the latest preview). When Ranka sings Aimo, Alto says "That's right," which I interpret as his own resolution that his desire to fight goes beyond his family problems--the same question he couldn't answer himself before he ran into Ranka. I also think it's significant that it's Aimo that serves as the bridge in between the observatory scene, the burial, and Alto's official enlistment. Yes, he speaks brave words about going it alone and independence, but he really did need Ranka and her song to arrive at that conclusion.
I can't believe people are just taking this paragraph for granted. This is a major focal point of Alto's development--the moment he joined SMS. Though at that point of time, Alto's reason for wanting to join SMS was unclear, it still didn't change the fact that the girl who pushed Alto into taking a step forward was Ranka and not Sheryl. Ranka got the resolve to enter Ms. Macross, Alto got the resolve to enter SMS. This isn't just something that the audience would imagine for "thinking too much", it was blatantly insinuated in the story. I also believe that this isn't something to be ignored when talking about Ranka and Alto's relationship.

Another example of this was in episode 1 right after Alto met Ranka. He clearly didn't want to do the exhibition, but after his encounter with Ranka, for SOME reason, he felt pumped up to do the job. Alto clearly has a positive effect on Ranka, but I will also say that she also has her own influences on Alto unbeknownst to her awareness.


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Originally Posted by Swampstorm

What does this have to do with romantic relationships?
It has everything to do with a romantic relationship. That's where it starts to bud. Normally, I wouldn't conclude this fast, but after ten episodes and episode 13 spoilers, I'm in a safe spot.

Also, this is anime. You know once a guy and a girl started getting closer=L.O.V.E comes to mind regardless of how platonic the mutual relationship is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm
It's going to be necessarily harder for anyone to prove a romantic interest on Alto's part, since we don't really know all that much about him to begin with. You should probably start by trying to elucidate what the nature of Ranka's interest in Alto is. We know that she thinks that he's helpful and pretty, but I was thinking about something more along the lines of shared interests, goals, or ideals. What happens during peacetime when there's nothing to protect?
When people fall in love, they usually don't care about the details as to why. They just do. I doubt Ranka is going to put off her feelings just because she couldn't come up with a decent answer as to why she fell for Alto. Besides, we're still in episode 10. I'm pretty sure Alto is bound to find an even stronger reason of why he wants to do what he wants to do. Same for Ranka.
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Old 2008-06-08, 21:13   Link #38
herbert
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You do remember that the reason Mikhail kept bugging Alto about running away was that the piloting thing was due to Alto rejecting family tradition and doing nothing about it except fleeing? Part of it, i suspect, is that he felt he wasn't good enough to ever satisfy his father despite being famed for his performances... or so the flashbacks suggest. This puts them closer together in attitude, until Sheryl starts pushing the two of them towards their own destinies.

Look at some of his lines earlier on, and even in episode 5, where he says he hates city-ships because the 'sky is too low', a comment he made all the way back in the beginning of episode 1. He wanted to fly to escape his father and his past, since he didn't think he could transcend either by staying on the ground.
I'm not sure how his family issue will be brought into play. I acknowledge your scenario is possibly right but at the same it may be not right. It may happen that he is just not meant to be an actor despite he is very tanlented. We can see from the preview for episode 11 that he loves paper airplane when he is a kid. I'm not telling what must be true, but I'm more inclined to believe his family tradition drag his passion in flying down but he doesn't have the courage to challenge his father and tradition only runs away. This is what I think the basis for Micheal's teasings.

Now, I can see you argue Alto is still escaping. I don't disagree with you on that part but it still doesn't make Alto in same line of Ranka. Deep down in bones, Alto is the same kind animal of Sheryl who would go after whatever they want. The only difference between them is that Sheryl knows what she wants but Alto is confused and doesn't exactly konw what he wants. It's understandable. Despite his love of flying is pure and sincere, he doesn't know what flying means to him @coughStarDatecough@. His passion only tells he must fly but doesn't tell how to fly and where to fly. His hesitation comes from not understanding and confusion. But Ranka's is from low self-esteem.

Once Alto fully understands what he wants, he would go to take it in a way similiarly to Sheryl. On the other hand, Ranka knows from beginning she wants to be sb like Sheryl and find her wanting to be heard in ep 3, but she never goes straightforward to her wantings. Even in ep 10, she need Sheryl to ask her to respond those who is calling for her.

In short, even though they both hesitate in choosing their own paths, they do for different reasons. Alto asks himself if this is really what he wants while Ranka asks if this is sth she can do. I don't think Ranka and Alto are same in core.
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When people fall in love, they usually don't care about the details as to why. They just do. I doubt Ranka is going to put off her feelings just because she couldn't come up with a decent answer as to why she fell for Alto. Besides, we're still in episode 10. I'm pretty sure Alto is bound to find an even stronger reason of why he wants to do what he wants to do. Same for Ranka.
It's true sometimes people fall in love without any obvious reason. But do you agree people also question why they love their lovers or spouses when their relations are in trouble? You can fall in love and don't know why but reasonless love is difficult to last. Plus I sometime doubt if Ranka really loves Alto or she just loves the Alto she has imagined. The love in first glance rarely gives birth of lasting relations and Ranka keeps finding she doesn't know Alto other than appearance. I won't be surprised
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Old 2008-06-08, 21:38   Link #39
Swampstorm
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Yeah right lol
I'm not entirely joking.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
It has everything to do with a romantic relationship. That's where it starts to bud. Normally, I wouldn't conclude this fast, but after ten episodes and episode 13 spoilers, I'm in a safe spot.
Actually, it started to bud when the show started and we found out that there was supposed to be a love triangle at some point.

But getting back to the point: how does helping someone out imply romance?

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Also, this is anime. You know once a guy and a girl started getting closer=L.O.V.E comes to mind regardless of how platonic the mutual relationship is.
Actually, where Alto is concerned, Y.U.R.I comes to mind first.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
When people fall in love, they usually don't care about the details as to why. They just do.
They might not, but what about the viewers?

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I doubt Ranka is going to put off her feelings just because she couldn't come up with a decent answer as to why she fell for Alto. Besides, we're still in episode 10. I'm pretty sure Alto is bound to find an even stronger reason of why he wants to do what he wants to do. Same for Ranka.
Oh, I have no doubt we'll see more of an explanation in the future. But for now, answer this:
Is jealousy the same thing as love? If not, then how are the concepts related, and what are the differences?
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Old 2008-06-08, 21:54   Link #40
Haesslich
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In episode three, there are two lines that strike me as important:
First, after being rescued by Michael and dropping into the shelter:
"I was saved by him again."
The second, when Sheryl tells Alto that he should try to be supportive to Ranka when they are trapped inside:
"Shut up! If I could, I'd say it as many times as you want! But as I am now..."
These lines are spoken even before Alto learns about Ranka's past. Both convey a his feelings of helplessness at dealing with the circumstances around him. Based on this, I suspect that retaking control of his life could be the driving factor in his decision to pilot.

As a later example, when he learns about how Ozma kept his piloting a secret from Ranka, he becomes furious, but curiously, the line that he delivers is:
"I would have wanted to know everything."
His choice of words give his response an oddly personal twist. Again, his intense dislike of being left in the dark links back to the control issue; with knowledge comes the freedom to make your own decisions. It could have a more specific meaning as well, but for that we'll have to wait and see.
It's quite possible these are control issues regarding his family and his future - or rather, lack of control given that he's the heir to a tradition, and has been conditioned since birth to accept a certain role. He's internalized a lot of what his father's taught him... but at the same time, he hasn't HAD a happy family relationship with his Dad, which may in turn be why he rejects Kabuki - it's important to his father, and doing so means he's putting a distance between himself and Pa, which is part of why he was angry at himself after hanging up in Episode 10... when he'd realized he sounded just like Dad and given Ranka the exact same advice he probably had once been given. Except Ranzo may have delivered a sharp blow to the head before replying to the question.

Ranka similiarly has a control issue with regards to her own fate - at some level she remembers that she lost her family, but blanks it out of her day-to-day thoughts. The issue with wanting to be heard is that she doesn't want to die unrecognized, and completely forgotten the way her family has been except as anonymous victims of the Vajra. She wants to be heard, to be remembered... and the fear that she never will be, or that nobody will pay attention to her, is why she's always going "if only I was good enough". Ozma hasn't exactly been the most supportive of her in this regard, which is why she immediately glomped onto Alto as a new pillar of support after Episode 3's speech with its "If you keep saying that, then you're right - you don't deserve it" sentiment.

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The statement regarding 'a chance' is meant to show Ranka that the SMS's offer had a similar meaning to himself as the Miss Macross competition did to Ranka (that's why he follows up with "Which is why you shouldn't give up either.") It represents a chance to break free of his past life and gain control over his life.

It's practically impossible to figure out what Alto's motives are for certain based on what little information we have, but this is my weak attempt to piece what we have together. Hopefully next episode will give us more of Alto's back story, so that we can have something a little more solid to work with.
Part of it has to do with choices - Sheryl's the one who insisted that she controlled her own fate, and that she CHOSE to do things, rather than just sit back and wait for chance to rain the gifts of fame and fortune upon her. That's why she took issue with Alto's "we'll wait for rescue, there's nothing we can do" statement, even if she herself acknowledged that there probably wasn't too much to be done at that point. Choice isn't necessarily control (you can be helpless to avoid things, but still choose to defy the seemingly inevitable), but it's something. He chooses, in the end, to fly - and chose to protect those who he cares about in the process, later on (post Episode 5).

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This is good, but I wonder at the distinction between flying and combat. They could very well be the same thing in Alto's mind, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

Then again, though, Sheryl uses the term "fly" to imply combat in episode six, so perhaps that distinction hasn't really been explored.
Flying doesn't necessarily mean combat - given that the NUNS didn't REALLY expect to find much out there, and most of the major Zentradi fleets have been either met and destroyed, or else at least well out towards the galactic arms as the center of the galaxy was avoided by the Zentradi, per Exedol's advice. Of the only three fleets to have gone this way, two have now vanished.

Fighting is in the end a deliberate choice as well - one can choose to fly away from the fight, rather than charge into the middle of it. Alto chose, perhaps stupidly, to charge into battle without a weapon rather than fall back and wait for support in Episode 4 during the Vajra attack. He also chose to fight in Episode 1, by jumping into Graham's craft, and then again made the decision to go into combat by joining SMS in the first place while being aware that the Vajra existed and that units like the SMS were formed specifically to fight them (episode 3 made this revelation).

Alto may not have made the distinction, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Also, based on episode three, I think that he feels too keenly his own helplessness. So perhaps his aloofness (to both girls and guys) has something to do with the fact that he doesn't see himself as dependable? Just a thought.
That was beat into him by his Dad. It's why he ran, rather than confront him. And why Mikhail objected to Alto wanting to join - his past behavior was to run from confrontations. I think his attack on the Vajra was as much sympathy for Ranka's plight (feeling helpless) and father issues (repressed aggression) as much as the 'oh, cute if weird girl in mortal danger'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
More than not loving, I'm not sure that Alto is in a position where he's ready for a romantic relationship, yet. As Sheryl points out in episode ten, his past is quite a delicate issue, and he doesn't seem ready to share it, yet. It's difficult to be in a serious relationship when you're always holding a part of yourself back. I think he'll need to resolve some of his own issues first, before he starts thinking about whom he wants to kiss.
No, Alto's not even thinking about romance. RANKA may be starting to feel that way, or at least trying to sort out her feelings for Alto (which now include jealousy), but Alto's not even in the country yet. As I said, I suspect that's partly due to upbringing, as well as his inability to really commit to anything yet. The decision to join SMS was his biggest commitment to date, and one that he's still coming to terms with.

Sheryl's confronted many of her demons, so may be ready to start something.. once she gets past the whole vulnerability phobia she seems to have. Ranka needs to get past the "if only I was good enough to" thing... and Alto needs to discover that he doesn't have to run away from everything, and that he has to choose to do things FOR himself, rather than in defiance of something else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert
Now, I can see you argue Alto is still escaping. I don't disagree with you on that part but it still doesn't make Alto in same line of Ranka. Deep down in bones, Alto is the same kind animal of Sheryl who would go after whatever they want. The only difference between them is that Sheryl knows what she wants but Alto is confused and doesn't exactly konw what he wants. It's understandable. Despite his love of flying is pure and sincere, he doesn't know what flying means to him @coughStarDatecough@. His passion only tells he must fly but doesn't tell how to fly and where to fly. His hesitation comes from not understanding and confusion. But Ranka's is from low self-esteem.

Once Alto fully understands what he wants, he would go to take it in a way similiarly to Sheryl. On the other hand, Ranka knows from beginning she wants to be sb like Sheryl and find her wanting to be heard in ep 3, but she never goes straightforward to her wantings. Even in ep 10, she need Sheryl to ask her to respond those who is calling for her.

In short, even though they both hesitate in choosing their own paths, they do for different reasons. Alto asks himself if this is really what he wants while Ranka asks if this is sth she can do. I don't think Ranka and Alto are same in core.
If that was strictly true, then he'd either have gone into flying wholeheartedly because he wanted to... but didn't, and needed Sheryl and Klein to put any feelings he had on the matter into words he could use to explain them to himself. And even then, he has to be given a bit of a push - we don't really see him fight, and fight well, until something urges him to - like needing to protect Ranka, watching Luca get taken, etc. Once he gets the 'reason', he becomes an utter monster in the cockpit, and can accomplish what needs to be done. Until then, he's a rank newbie who keeps doubting himself... again, at least until Sheryl and Klein helped him over his 'why' thing.

In that way, he's much like Ranka, who also needed a push (usually the plane, or else Sheryl's kiss) to move into action without regrets or thoughts of doubt to sabotage her. Once this happens, she's also similarly a juggernaut... and in doing so landed an agent, then a major supporting role in a movie. Which, in turn, seems to be driving her towards Minmay-style 'lonely at the top' superstardom.

Incidentally, Grace is the reason Sheryl has much more intel on Alto than Ranka. Major Grace O'Connor seems to have a gift for being nosy...
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