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Old 2008-06-08, 17:03   Link #1061
aldw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
instead of nod, we could just say "non-aligned or antagonist federations/hegemonies/dictatorships"
Or like the Bungling Empire from the old Lode Runner and Raid on Bungling Bay games by Broderbund.
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Old 2008-06-08, 17:39   Link #1062
Comartemis
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So judging from the information we have so far, here's what I've come up with for the recreation of RF6:

First, note that this timeline goes with the assumption that Hayate joined the navy as an Enforcer and became captain of her own ship for a while like Chrono probably did prior to attaining the rank of Admiral. Hayate has a few connections in the admiralty and among the Main Branch which she uses to keep the force together for the most part, so this is rather important.

The limiters and the balance of power is a concept which is almost entirely limited to the ground forces thanks to Regius's reforms. Because the ground forces are almost entirely made up of D through B-ranks, limiters don't usually come into play unless a bunch of heavy hitters from the Main Branch or the Enforcers set up shop in Ground Forces territory, and since RF6 is backed by the Saint Church and Admiral Chrono, neither of whom has anything to do with the Ground Forces, those limits are in full effect for the duration of RF6's stay on Mid-Childa.

However, once RF6 has served its' purpose in the eyes of the Ground Forces, it is forced to disband. Here, Hayate exerts a bit of her influence and asks a personal favor of a former colleague of hers, Admiral Cyphus Kain, Hayate's mentor who taught her everything she knows about leadership and a commander's place on the battlefield (right up there on the front lines next to his troops). Cyphus gladly welcomes her and the personnel of RF6 into his fleet, and after a bit of effort shuffling things around and getting some papers signed here and there, Hayate winds up being reinstated as the captain of her old ship. RF6 now makes up the crew of the TSA battle carrier Beginner's Luck. There are a few stipulations to this, as the crew has a few new higher-ups they have to deal with in addition to Hayate and Cyphus, but all in all the team sticks together with the possible exception of the Forwards, who might decide to go on with their lives the way they did in the StrikerS epilogue.

As we've already established/theorized, the navy places less stringent requirements on the balance of power in its' fleets, so Hayate has little trouble getting the crew to stick together, though Fate, as an Enforcer, will have to float around the fleet and do time serving on some of the other ships every now and then. Nanoha, Signum and Vita serve as commanders for the ship's sizable garrison of combat mages, while Shamal is the leading medical officer and Rein II is the ship's first mate.

It's rough and undeveloped so far, but can I get some opinions before I get too caught up in this line of thought?

*EDIT*
Actually, scratch that line of thought. I just realized the Special Investigations Officers are probably already part of the navy since Leti's the one who decided to let Hayate and the Wolks stay together. All we need in this case is Hayate's association with Cyphus during the manga timeskip, and since we assume that SIOs spend a lot of time on warships like Chrono and Fate do, she can probably be reasonably be given a spot as the captain of a small cruiser after StrikerS, considering her experience as RF6's commanding officer. Nothing big, just something for a newly-minted captain to cut her teeth on before moving up to a frigate or a battleship once she gets some experience under her belt.
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Last edited by Comartemis; 2008-06-08 at 18:39.
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Old 2008-06-08, 20:23   Link #1063
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Geh, no time for backlog, but a small post in regards to how NOD can grow large in Nanoha, five words: Mass based weaponry and non-mages.

If you spread propaganda on how mages rule everything and provide alternatives to those without magic, one could reign in a lot of recruits.

Of course this is only a raw idea.
Yeah I'm sure a slogan that amounts to "let's bring back atom bombs, poison gas, and large scale conventional wars!" is going to rally people to your cause. This would be like running for office in England or Japan on a platform of allowing everyone to own machine guns and grenade launchers... yeah you'll attract a couple loonies to your camp, but the vast majority of people will shun you. The thing here is that while not using mass based weapons weakens the TSAB and gives mages somewhat more power it also probably prevents many sorts of small wars, insurrections, and cuts down on violent crime.

From a military point of view it's a bad idea and probably unpopular in some circles, but I'd be willing to bet it has great public support we have real world examples as well. For instance the banning of Napalm, expanding (hollowpoint) bullets in warfare, and attempts to ban land-mines and the dismantling of chemical weapons stockpiles. None of these programs are overly popular with the military, but almost no one is going to come out publicly in FAVOR of poison gas, land mines that end up killing 50 times as many civilians as combatants, bullets designed to cause the most grievous wounds possible, and sticky flaming gel that brutally and horribly maims anyone it dosen't burn to death becasue it would be political suicide.

You'd also have no way to GET those weapons to start... there is no Tiberium here or entire sections of the world so polluted by toxic waste no one ventures into them to hide in. You can't hide a tank factory or small arms plant for instance and the TSAB undoubtably bans even research on such things and tracks any oddities that could indicate attempts to build them. Jail acutally had elements inside the TSAB covering for him (at least at first) and the "army" he managed to put together was still very meager.

Nod worked in CnC becasue of the stetting and specific factors of that world the TSAB has none of those factors which would make them gaining any sort of serious power exceedingly unlikely. Could they become a terrorist group that's something of a nuisance? Sure. Could they acutally get so big they could have a go at toppling the TSAB? Not a fucking chance IMO.
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Old 2008-06-08, 20:43   Link #1064
Comartemis
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Quote:
You'd also have no way to GET those weapons to start... there is no Tiberium here or entire sections of the world so polluted by toxic waste no one ventures into them to hide in.
*Ponders*

Nope, no Tiberium and no Tiberium fields to hide stuff in.... but we do have dimension space. Precia hid out in the Garden of Time for a while with nobody realizing where she was, and I think that somebody around here said that

1) The GoT was fairly close to Earth, or at least close enough for Precia to attack the Arthra while it was "in orbit" around Earth.

2) Earth--and therefore the GoT--are on a major "dimensional highway" of sorts between Mid-Childa and deep space bureau headquarters (the space station in A's). If I'm remembering this wrong and it's not on that highway, then it's probably at least in the "core worlds" around Mid-Childa which make up the heart of the TSAB.

I'm probably remembering one of those two wrong, but if I'm right about both of those, then suddenly there's all kinds of places you could hide a war factory or a Hand of Nod. I mean, if you can stick a mad scientist's hideout just off the dimensional equivalent of the Eisenhower Expressway and nobody notices, what else could you put there? And for that matter, what could you hide further away from the center of the system, where the bureau doesn't patrol so often?
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Old 2008-06-08, 21:02   Link #1065
Kha
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Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare View Post
Hmm, I'm not particularly sure about this theory myself, but from what I can gather, spatial expansion releases a huge amount of energy as it destabilizes, so yeah, I think it works.



Well, we all need to force some plot points nevertheless, so Yuuno missing isn't particularly out-of-the-ordinary. I think this experiment is going to produce some mighty good results, so it's feasible to work it out.
Ah kk, I'm still thinking about it, but dkellis did mention a Big Bang, just need to get to it...

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Originally Posted by Ilya View Post
That's what it looks like! *facepalms*

Edit:...Melon....Bread.....Melonbread
*facepalms harder*
Ah you finally got the joke.

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Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
To expand on it a little, and I should mention again for clarification that this is entirely speculation on my part, my guess on how the Infinite Library works is something TARDIS-like: the inside is a lot bigger than the outside. It's easier to imagine it if you've played D&D before, and used Bags of Holding. (Suffice to say that "inside bigger than outside" concepts have been around long enough and often enough to be general, rather than specific references.)

Part of this is due to the Infinite Library containing so much information, be it in physical media such as books or some sort of "raw data", that special reinforced magic has to be put in place to eke out a region of "realspace", in much the same way the "realspace" of TSAB Main HQ can exist in the middle of interdimensional space. I can technobabble it up to explain how it all works, but the net result is that the Infinite Library is essentially a whole pocket dimension (which, in itself, is comprised of infinite number of other dimensions) squeezed into something the human brain can conceive.

It's hard to explain the concepts using general three-dimensional imagery. I have to say "it's bigger through" rather than "it's bigger outwards", and increasing the "realspace" of the Infinite Library from the whole Library-space superset isn't so much expanding it in volume (although in general this happens anyway, if only to provide space for new physical media), but rather suffusing more parts with "realness". Making it real, so to speak, and bringing concept into physical form.

Which was one reason why I miscalculated on where the Infinite Library was, since it made no sense to keep it in the middle of interdimensional space where only a very few could access it. (Think on the point of a library, rather than a mere collection of books.) I believed that the question of "where" was irrelevant, in much the same way one might ask "where does the colour blue come from?", but I was wrong.

Now, if anything disrupts the containment of the Infinite Library's realspace, events might be... interesting for a while, if only because so many possible things could happen. One scenario would be that realspace collapses into itself, and anyone stuck inside is trapped somewhere (alternate dimension, stasis, probability-space), if they even survive. Another would be that the realspace remains stable (I doubt it, but then it's not like I'm speaking from experience), but inaccessible, or perhaps gets shunted into a convenient side dimension. A particularly flashy scenario is that the realspace forms a "seed" from which more realspace can be formed, expanding quickly in the not-space of interdimensional space: this is otherwise known as a Big Bang.

This isn't all that I've pondered on the Infinite Library, but it's what I judged to be relevant to my stories, and so it's all I've actually put into words. There's still quite a bit more (I really like the concept of the Infinite Library, and am annoyed that the Nanoha-verse contains so little canon information on it), but I've probably missed some obvious-in-hindsight questions and flaws.
Yes I was thinking of a smaller Big Bang, though is it possible for it to first collapse, then erupt? Or should it just blow up right away? Do pardon me, I take Biology and only have basic physics, and never reached relativity.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
That’s not an iron clad rule its still somewhat debated what the end state of the universe will be one theory was a “bug crunch” where in the expansion was slowed then began reversing and the universe collapsed back in on itself. As I recall though current findings indicate the universe lacks sufficient mass for this to occur though. Instead it seems likely it will expand forever until we basiclly run out of energy due to entropy and it falls apart… Shame the crunch would have been cooler IMO.

But basiclly what a space does depends entirely on the space in question our universe is expanding because it was propelled outward by the mother of all explosions and lacking any kind drag to slow it (besides mutual attraction from gravity which is proving too weak) has simply continued flying outward every since.

... Singularity's don't explode. Acutally the sheer MASS of something like that would be so immense that the energy required to uncompacting it would be pretty much beyond our ability our fathom. That much mass crushed down to that small size will want to STAY at that size. Acutally you'd probably need some kind of system to keep it from drawing in and crushing the station not keeping it from exploding!

See the above it IS massive which means that massive gravity would hold it together and give a density higher then even a super massive blackholes singularity... it's not going to what to come apart in the slightest.

Which dosen't exist is never even hinted at again this isn't the TSAB acutally it's almost assured since they had inter-dimensional space craft before they had the HQ. (how do you think they built the damn thing to start with?) Again this isn't 40k.

A few million perhaps IMO bad, but for a civilization with hundreds of planets still a minor event really.

I don't like the idea of the Brotherhood of Nod in Nanoha to start with and I like the idea of them somehow coming out of nowhere to cripple the entire TSAB even less. Besides which this plan probably wouldn't work anyway even if the HQ was knocked out large numbers of ships (probably the majority) are away from it at anytime and Nod probably has no navy to speak of... unless now in addition to having plot armor they also have the resource of hundreds of planets to draw on.

At best this is like setting off a nuke in say DC you kill allot of people and probably cause a fair bit of confusion, but contingencies exist for such things. I seriously doubt the TSAB has NO plan if they lose HQ militarys in peace time actually have little to do allot of the time expect make plans for even the most absurdly unlikely of scenarios. Acutally taking out the HQ isn't even as bad as the above since it seems like you might not even manage to decapitate the government with such a strike since that's based on Mid, and local ground forces and probably the Air Force as well are also based on planets and so likely have there entire chains of command intact. Which means they'd still be able to respond rapidly to any attempts at internal uprisings (which is Nods MO) and crush them rapidly since there is no way Nod is a match military for the TSAB even if the Navy is weakened.

It basiclly boils down the simple fact that in something as big as the TSAB or even a nation there really is no single target you can blow up and somehow totally cripple the entire thing. This is why Terrorism is ultimately pretty much dick waving rather then an effective military tactic it's never going to acutally militaryily defeat an enemy or even topple a stable government. At best it can win a political victory, but blowing up a symbol of a nation and killing millions of people is acutally just going to drive the target into a berserk rage. Seriously just ask Japan how that whole sneak attack against the heart of a superior foe thing went for them...

Never mind that I have serious issues seeing where and how Nod is going to get very large at all in Nanoha. After all Nod really only gained recruits in its home universe because of GDIs failure to control Tib for the most part. (With GDI increasing doing this and now having beat back an Alien invasion too boot Nods future is actually looking rather bleak IMO Kane may well see this and it could be why he seems to be transitioning to a mindless cyborg army…) There is no such impetus in the TSAB where the average citizen seems to enjoy a safe clean middle class existence... This dose not tend to breed a huge population of dissidents willing to take up arms against there rulers.

And Kane religious rhetoric is unlikely to find much appeal in what appears to be a by and largely secular society either. IMO Nod as seen in C&C simply could not exist in the TSAB it would at best be a small terrorist cult of perhaps a few hundred to thousand diehard members.

That's my take anyway, but I admittedly don't know what you're exact plan is.

Honestly he could go allot of places he fought in a full blown magic/conventional war so he could easily handle a position on the front line, but he also worked for over a decade as a sometime PI so he could swing investigations too. That said given the proliferation of potent Air Combat mages already on hand he'd probably find more use in the investigative side of things. (the fact he'd also likely work alone more would merely be a bonus...)

I've got to admit I was thinking of something more grandiose myself... Rebuilt seems to be staled, but I really like the idea of "StrikerS+OCs+More of everything..." *TK begins pondering...*

Can easily see it happening I acutally had a similar scene in my crack verse if you replace Franz with a Spartan III...
I'm still working out how it happens, but its more historical than out of nowhere. Basically, the Brotherhood of Nod preaches Ancient Belkaism, and positions itself in a way that appeals to believers of that force, just like Al Qaeda. Saint Church would be the moderate muslim equivalent. There are lots of Belka descent; in my Khrack prior to the collapse and at the height of it's power, the Belka empire was far bigger, much more badass, and a lot more influence than the current secular TSAB. Ever since the collapse, most of the Belka peoples ended up in outlying areas where TSAB support has been very limited due to resources and bureaucratic troubles of their own. Discrimination against Belka doesn't help (I'm bankrolling completely using Regius here, even though I'm stretching it out of proportion).

So you have lots and lots of disgruntled, poor and disillusioned people ripe for the picking, with lots and lots of places to hide. Even Jail managed to hide his labs under the very noses of TSAB without much stealth technology, much less the Brotherhood who have been battling TSAB for more than a century, accumulated and regularly smuggled weapons in from the outer realms, and know about every trick in the book about hiding. And the further the planet is from Midchilda, the less control TSAB has over it.

Of course, them springing out across every Blue Zone planet once the Main HQ is destroyed like in the game is completely out of whack for the size ratio. But making small psychologically effective strikes very quickly, like it is with the HQ, and rapidly taking down Midchilda, if they are not stopped, things will quickly collapse.

But that's if its his plan anyway. We all know Skane wanted suicide to do something else. And its got to do with the Tronium, which has also been seeded in the Yellow and Red zones, scattered by Precia's botched experiment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Geh, no time for backlog, but a small post in regards to how NOD can grow large in Nanoha, five words: Mass based weaponry and non-mages.

If you spread propaganda on how mages rule everything and provide alternatives to those without magic, one could reign in a lot of recruits.

Of course this is only a raw idea.
I have to agree with Tk here. Weapons don't give you hope. Belief does. Now twist that belief such that only with power do you have hope, for you have to remove whoever's in your way to paradise.

Wage Holy War. I believe this is what motivates terrorists to take up arms, if they believe in anything at all...




And...




If you thought that was the last of Fon Filia's Lyrical Party, it's time for...

Mahou Shounen Pimpin' YuunO
in
Two Perfect Girls
Spoiler for There's 2 Perfect Girls for me!:
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Old 2008-06-08, 22:02   Link #1066
haiz123321
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Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare View Post
Nah, I did. I just didn't have time to reply to it. Sorry.
Ahh i see my existence still gets noticed afterall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Not any melon, not any bread:

That's the one Shana likes right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post


Alright!
[/SPOILER]
O_O I don't see Hayate's name in the lyrics but she's in the picture? EXPLAIN THIS KHA!!!!
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Old 2008-06-08, 22:41   Link #1067
Liingo
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Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
This is indeed part of Lyrical Babel. The link to the index post is in my sig, although there's no actual story there yet. I've planned out the chapters, and I'll be actually posting said chapters once I finish the current one.

When I said, a long time back, that I had planned out the story and uberplot in great detail, I wasn't kidding. At this point, the only major alterations would be additions, especially if a certain planned chapter is getting too unwieldy in wordcount.
Noted. Argh, so much reading to do once my exams are over... Pretty cool that you 're able to plan it out in sich detail. I go into my writing with very little but a bare bones outline. Probably why it takes so long.
Quote:
Something which had been percolating in my mind for a while is the question of why the Infinite Library seems so under-utilized in canon. Now, the first possible objection would be that it isn't under-utilized, but the anime focuses on personal interactions and flashy battles, so we don't see the background scenes where everyone consults the Library. Entirely possible, and probably even likely.

Other than that, one reason might be that the TSAB doesn't realize how useful a resource it has. Which would turn into a TSAB bashing fest again, so we'll treat it as a done discussion.

The other possible reason I am looking into is that the TSAB knows how amazing the Library is, but they are consciously not making use of it at every turn, entirely because they do not want to be too dependent on the information from it. If a society has been conditioned that a certain resource is the fount of all knowledge, then it is plausible that in that society, innovation is dead. After all, why come up with something new, when there's an existing design for an analogue that probably works just as well?

Note that this is not a certainty, but merely a possibility. The belief in that possibility, coupled with some persuasive arguments, could have resulted in the TSAB overcompensating the other way. It's a slippery slope argument, but the potential risks may have been enough.
Another possible reason could well be the lack of organisation for a library that large. I can't remember for certain but wasn't Yuuno their first competent librarian. Sure he's had roughly 10 years to get it into shape, but those 10 years would have been punctuated by information requests by other branches as well.
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Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
My primary complaint about the OC thread(s) in general remains unchanged, since it began: please don't flood the pages with huge pictures, countless Youtube embeds, and words in huge font.
Unfortunately, that takes constant yelling to try and cut back on things like that.... which is annoying in itself. Although I'm with you on this one. I'm fine with the orignal embed/picture, but it does get annoying once people start quoting and suddenly we've got 5 of the same thing on the same page.
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I don't care if people don't like me, as long as my OCs and stories get critiqued and discussed independently of personal feelings.
We try our best. Although at times haven't exactly gone that way.
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And Acous is gonna get some more love from me before this is over. I apologize for all gay under/overtones in that statement, they are absolutely groundless.
Wheee shafted loving
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Ash? He's not powerful as in "ka-boom" powerful, but he's powerful as in "just-as-planned" powerful. Their profiles need a bit of redo-ing, thanks to you if I remember. Not that I'm complaining, that helped me a nice bit. You'll prolly see them on Ghaz's index post. Eventually
Always glad to help, it helped that you wanted to listen to what I had to say.
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Amen, brother. I couldn't have put it any better. Although honestly, I'm very interested to see what this AU has to offer...

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My view?

Less Noise. More Action. From Everyone.
Not contributing much of either I'm afraid.. Hopefully that will change soon


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Originally Posted by ghazghkull View Post
*presents a pad of ink*

Well whenever you can XD

I say you and Keroko because the two of you are the most level-headed here from what I've seen.
*humbly accepts*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya View Post
Time for a new Oc to be presented (or OC army). As part of my new fic "Fate of the Reapers" (FotR) I had to create a new race and here I have their profile.

If you find anything that goes against anything, is forbidden or what not, tell me how to fix it, change it, or if I should delete it.

Spoiler for Profile:
Pretty cool idea. It will be interesting to see their first appearance. Reminds me a little of necrons and all but they're different in a lot of aspects as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya View Post
Since I posted the Reaper's profile already I might as well post another organisation OC profile: SaE.
This organisation is included in my fic "Marksman Tales".

There is little information about it in MT so this profile don't have alot either. What it does have is mostly statistics and info about the mechs and drones the SaE uses.

Spoiler for SaE:
Drones huh. Lets hope they're better than the one's Jail had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post

[center]Mahou Shounen Pimpin' YuunO
in
Two Perfect Girls
The crack is strong with this one
This and your last posts brings me back
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Old 2008-06-08, 22:45   Link #1068
Wild Goose
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*kills Kha for being a baka*
Remember, Kha, I am you and you are me. Oh and the high ground makes you a VERY good target. *smirk* Keikaku doori...

Right it's my day off i came back at 1 am in the morning, lazy to do a breaker, so I'll just reply as follows:

@ Keroko & TK:
Pretty much, my idea is that RF6 is bigger from the beginning. I honestly don't intend for it to be continued - as TK mentioned, massing the aces means that you're depriving the frontline elements of greater firepower - but what I plan is to link this to The Unsung War, in that O'Neil and his allies use TF6 as a sort of test run for a joint task force before they form TF 58 in Unsung War. (BTW, isn't that a ref to the Fast Carrier Task Force? Alternatively known as TF 38 or TF 58 depending on which fleet they were assigned to.) TF6 will still be officially disbanded post-StrikerS when everything finishes, since it would have completed its goals by then; O'Neil and his allies will then apply the lessons learned for their task forces.

What does this mean? I ain't telling, but don't be surprised if a new organisation rises from the ashes, like a Phoenix, in charge of a certain sekuhara Lt. Colonel...

I'm planning out things in a bit more depth because there are a few details I'd forgotten, such as the fact that the OFM's operations are going to be severely limited - I've effectively gutted them of half of their combat personnel, which means... and Erick will NOT alllow his Assault Platoon Commander to be away for a year. Hmmm. Okay, I've got some ideas about how to do that. Hmmmm.... right, I think I can work it.

TK: Yeah I think Pixy in investigations would to better; TF6 needs more investigative people rather than shooters. Franz would help some but he's a bit rusty, having spent most of his time shooting the crap outta people...

Will think more stuff and plan more.
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Old 2008-06-08, 22:50   Link #1069
Kha
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Goose killed himself again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haiz123321 View Post
O_O I don't see Hayate's name in the lyrics but she's in the picture? EXPLAIN THIS KHA!!!!
Last line, when Yuuno started counting the girls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
The crack is strong with this one

This and your last posts brings me back
It'll still run.

...I hope. TBH Nod Yer Head was dead weird as I tried to finish it. 2PG however has been sitting at the back of my mind for a long time and that pic just sums it up.
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Old 2008-06-08, 23:20   Link #1070
Comartemis
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...

...

<.<

>.>

*Drops a package and runs*

Spoiler for From the Diary of Alexander Crestwood:

For the record, the first-person narrative style is going to come and go whenever the story needs a little expository dialogue instead of the usual third-person perspective. The diary entries will come and go, usually only as paragraphs inserted here and there in the story, as opposed to drawn-out chapters like this prologue was.

I'd also like to note that this is the first piece of fiction I've written since junior high, so go easy on me, 'kay?
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Old 2008-06-08, 23:42   Link #1071
Aaron008R
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Spoiler for Was about to say but reconsidered.:


EDIT: That was what I was about to say because I'm feeling paranoid. But maybe I'm just being too paranoid so I take it back, sorry for pointing fingers. But seriously. Please help me here? Because no matter how good I am at intervening conflicts, what good would it do if it keeps sprouting up again and again and again?!

Sure, my interventions are all flashy and has impact, but what good do they do in the end?! I just end up being a praised 'Peacekeeper' that seems to be able to handle problems well while the truth is I only stall the conflicts that inevitably come back time and again. To put it simply, I accomplish almost nothing but a temporary ceasefire and some words of praise that makes me feel empty instead of the desired effect. What happens is just as if I was strutting around in a show of arrogance because of what I do, bragging about making interventions to conflicts while it's in the end just an overblown act of futility. What good is a ceasefire if I can never completely remove the problem in the first place?!

It ends up being just a vicious cycle that's not much better than full-time flamefest! It's ultimately useless bringing down the hammer repeatedly if I can never get to the core of the problem! That's why I implore everyone now... help me out here too!

I don't want there to be a need to intervene in fights again in the future. I don't want any more fights to rise up again. So, PLEASE. Everybody work with me, okay?

Last edited by Aaron008R; 2008-06-09 at 00:24.
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Old 2008-06-08, 23:50   Link #1072
dkellis
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Yes I was thinking of a smaller Big Bang, though is it possible for it to first collapse, then erupt? Or should it just blow up right away? Do pardon me, I take Biology and only have basic physics, and never reached relativity.
The problem with trying to say "this is likely to happen" or "that is impossible" is that we don't know what sort of physics we're dealing with in the first place.

In fact, it's still entirely wild speculation that interdimensional space is nothing like our more familiar realspace. I just find it incredibly unlikely that interdimensional space follows all the rules we have in realspace, and if you change one physical attribute, plenty of other things follow suit. We already know that there's some sort of magic holding TSAB Main HQ together, since they at least have artificial gravity.

Now, my gut reaction is that if realspace is more "substantial" than interdimensional space (nature abhors a vacuum, etc), then if the constraints and limits are suddenly removed for whatever reason, then realspace will expand rapidly to fill the gaps. This can range from "this area used to be one meter square, now it's five" to all sorts of weirdness happening, as realspace "boils" in the "vacuum" of interdimensional space.

However, we don't know this. Realspace could instead collapse and contract; in our realspace, anything that shrinks in volume but retains its mass eventually turns into a black hole or analogue, since we've got our gravitational laws. In interdimensional space, those gravitational laws may not be present.

I don't even know whether lightspeed is the same in interdimensional space; the background looks rather psychadelic, so an argument could be made that this is the result of the human brain trying to make sense of utterly different physical laws without going insane.
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Old 2008-06-08, 23:58   Link #1073
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Can hardly blame you there Aaron. Best way to kill a man is to leave him alone after all.

As unsavory as the idea sounds, the ignore option is available for anyone who wants to use them. Rather than having the flames started at the slightest chance, it counts as a better option IMHO.
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Old 2008-06-09, 00:10   Link #1074
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
*Ponders*

Nope, no Tiberium and no Tiberium fields to hide stuff in.... but we do have dimension space. Precia hid out in the Garden of Time for a while with nobody realizing where she was, and I think that somebody around here said that

1) The GoT was fairly close to Earth, or at least close enough for Precia to attack the Arthra while it was "in orbit" around Earth.

2) Earth--and therefore the GoT--are on a major "dimensional highway" of sorts between Mid-Childa and deep space bureau headquarters (the space station in A's). If I'm remembering this wrong and it's not on that highway, then it's probably at least in the "core worlds" around Mid-Childa which make up the heart of the TSAB.

I'm probably remembering one of those two wrong, but if I'm right about both of those, then suddenly there's all kinds of places you could hide a war factory or a Hand of Nod. I mean, if you can stick a mad scientist's hideout just off the dimensional equivalent of the Eisenhower Expressway and nobody notices, what else could you put there? And for that matter, what could you hide further away from the center of the system, where the bureau doesn't patrol so often?
Yeah sure I mean it’s not like the STREAMS of freighter carrying tens of thousands of tons of ore and fuel every day to keep it working would give it away or anything…

The reason you could hide stuff like this in CnC was that Tiberium was not only a deadly hazard that kept the noisy neighbors out it was also your fuel and raw resources. There's nothing like that in Nanoha and the amount of resources you'd need to truck into such a factory would be impossible to hide. Cutting yourself off from the outside world and hiding out is one thing building a huge war factory and hiding that is quite another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post

@ Keroko & TK:
Pretty much, my idea is that RF6 is bigger from the beginning. I honestly don't intend for it to be continued - as TK mentioned, massing the aces means that you're depriving the frontline elements of greater firepower - but what I plan is to link this to The Unsung War, in that O'Neil and his allies use TF6 as a sort of test run for a joint task force before they form TF 58 in Unsung War. (BTW, isn't that a ref to the Fast Carrier Task Force? Alternatively known as TF 38 or TF 58 depending on which fleet they were assigned to.) TF6 will still be officially disbanded post-StrikerS when everything finishes, since it would have completed its goals by then; O'Neil and his allies will then apply the lessons learned for their task forces.
That would make it an AU to my fanon because as I mentioned while it’s tempting to try I don’t think this set up could made to work with my current fic mainly because it’s already linked to two others that are using fairly standard Keroko canon. I have no issue with linking it, but it would be somewhat AU from what I’ve written. (Namely Felix and Vita are bound to know each other allot better if they hung around the same unit for over a year then they do in the current fic) So could be close, but it would still be divergent.

And yes it is a reference to the Fast Carrier Task Force again little nuggets for those that get them and those that don't just assume it's a random number.

Quote:
What does this mean? I ain't telling, but don't be surprised if a new organisation rises from the ashes, like a Phoenix, in charge of a certain sekuhara Lt. Colonel...
I consider having Hayate be part of the TF organization but ultimately vetoed it for a number of reasons one it would conflict with Aaron work that was the biggest, but also it would bring all sorts of heat down and defeat a large amount of effort that went into keeping things lower key.

Quote:
I'm planning out things in a bit more depth because there are a few details I'd forgotten, such as the fact that the OFM's operations are going to be severely limited - I've effectively gutted them of half of their combat personnel, which means... and Erick will NOT alllow his Assault Platoon Commander to be away for a year. Hmmm. Okay, I've got some ideas about how to do that. Hmmmm.... right, I think I can work it.
I noticed that too and frankly I don't really think the ground team fits in that well anyway. I'd consider chopping it down to just the Air Girls who as I recall are acutally technically in the Air Force anyway. Or maybe say like two of each, but yeah ten seemed like allot you'd have had almost as many OFM members as you did original RF:6 members at that point.

Quote:
TK: Yeah I think Pixy in investigations would to better; TF6 needs more investigative people rather than shooters. Franz would help some but he's a bit rusty, having spent most of his time shooting the crap outta people...

Will think more stuff and plan more.
Well Pixy wouldn't make such a good investigator... unless you're investigating the best way to chop stuff in half. FELIX on the other hand would probably find some use there.
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Old 2008-06-09, 00:29   Link #1075
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
That would make it an AU to my fanon because as I mentioned while it’s tempting to try I don’t think this set up could made to work with my current fic mainly because it’s already linked to two others that are using fairly standard Keroko canon. I have no issue with linking it, but it would be somewhat AU from what I’ve written. (Namely Felix and Vita are bound to know each other allot better if they hung around the same unit for over a year then they do in the current fic) So could be close, but it would still be divergent.

And yes it is a reference to the Fast Carrier Task Force again little nuggets for those that get them and those that don't just assume it's a random number.
Yeah I think we'll have to go with close but still divergent

Quote:
I consider having Hayate be part of the TF organization but ultimately vetoed it for a number of reasons one it would conflict with Aaron work that was the biggest, but also it would bring all sorts of heat down and defeat a large amount of effort that went into keeping things lower key.
I was actually thiking like say 10 years down the line Or Hayate running another TF of her own, that's joint SI/SOPCC.
Quote:
I noticed that too and frankly I don't really think the ground team fits in that well anyway. I'd consider chopping it down to just the Air Girls who as I recall are acutally technically in the Air Force anyway. Or maybe say like two of each, but yeah ten seemed like allot you'd have had almost as many OFM members as you did original RF:6 members at that point.
Pretty much, what I'm thinking now is that the OFM det - Hammer Squad - is now 6 people; split evenly between Assault Platoon and Air wing, and the leaders are Sergeant Leo Kozlov and Corporal Naomi Jaeger. The purpose of putting them in is to act as a backup to the forwards and the like, while Erick is also using this as a field test, giving both of them a taste of independant operations on a somewhat limited scale, to see if they have what it takes to become officers; Erick will be expanding the OFM earlier in this timeline, and Franz has scouted Leo to be the new Platoon Commander for Delta Platoon (while the other squads expand into "platoon" size - 12-man teams).(A SEAL Platoon is 14 men because 14 men is 7 men in 2 Zodiac boats; an OFM platoon is 12 men because 12 men and their gear fit into the back of a Pelican.) Franz would then come in for a few months to lead the Hammer Det before handing off command to Leo and heading back to the OFM to oversee Selection and the training of the new recruits.

Though had I kept him all the way to the end I could have drama like the defense of TF6, where Franz keeps calling frantically for Naomi on the radio... and there is no answer.

Quote:
Well Pixy wouldn't make such a good investigator... unless you're investigating the best way to chop stuff in half. FELIX on the other hand would probably find some use there.
Oops yeah, typo.

As for Kha, I'll just leave all the ribbing to IRC now.
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Old 2008-06-09, 00:30   Link #1076
Kha
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Sorry Aaron, I was past my limit 1 thread ago. Because there are some people who when ignored just walk all over you. I guess I'll harder this time.

And I suggest you just stop Goose. IRC is under a different authority, but that doesn't mean you can abuse it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
...

...

<.<

>.>

*Drops a package and runs*

Spoiler for From the Diary of Alexander Crestwood:

For the record, the first-person narrative style is going to come and go whenever the story needs a little expository dialogue instead of the usual third-person perspective. The diary entries will come and go, usually only as paragraphs inserted here and there in the story, as opposed to drawn-out chapters like this prologue was.

I'd also like to note that this is the first piece of fiction I've written since junior high, so go easy on me, 'kay?
Backwater towns are the places where all the action happens.

I like the style of narration too, plus I do believe many of my characters relate to Alex's history.

Amongst random thoughts were the idea if Kha was on the other side of this Type-Moon game.

Looking out of the next chapter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
The problem with trying to say "this is likely to happen" or "that is impossible" is that we don't know what sort of physics we're dealing with in the first place.

In fact, it's still entirely wild speculation that interdimensional space is nothing like our more familiar realspace. I just find it incredibly unlikely that interdimensional space follows all the rules we have in realspace, and if you change one physical attribute, plenty of other things follow suit. We already know that there's some sort of magic holding TSAB Main HQ together, since they at least have artificial gravity.

Now, my gut reaction is that if realspace is more "substantial" than interdimensional space (nature abhors a vacuum, etc), then if the constraints and limits are suddenly removed for whatever reason, then realspace will expand rapidly to fill the gaps. This can range from "this area used to be one meter square, now it's five" to all sorts of weirdness happening, as realspace "boils" in the "vacuum" of interdimensional space.

However, we don't know this. Realspace could instead collapse and contract; in our realspace, anything that shrinks in volume but retains its mass eventually turns into a black hole or analogue, since we've got our gravitational laws. In interdimensional space, those gravitational laws may not be present.

I don't even know whether lightspeed is the same in interdimensional space; the background looks rather psychadelic, so an argument could be made that this is the result of the human brain trying to make sense of utterly different physical laws without going insane.
Ah I see... Interesting thoughts there, I'll see what it becomes.
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Old 2008-06-09, 00:53   Link #1077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha
I'm still working out how it happens, but its more historical than out of nowhere. Basically, the Brotherhood of Nod preaches Ancient Belkaism, and positions itself in a way that appeals to believers of that force, just like Al Qaeda. Saint Church would be the moderate muslim equivalent. There are lots of Belka descent; in my Khrack prior to the collapse and at the height of it's power, the Belka empire was far bigger, much more badass, and a lot more influence than the current secular TSAB.
That barely matters the TSAB is the dominate power it won and as such its culture will be even those of “Belkan” descent will be of Mid not Belkan culture. Mid ideas and norms dominate both legally and in society at large. The only pockets that might still practice older Belkan norms are perhaps in the church or very out of the way smaller worlds. Plus your entire set up is very suspect after all Mid defeated the Belkans there empire couldn’t have been massively inferior for this to occur.

Now add decades and decades of Mid ascendancy and the Belkan culture is likely very weakened. Mid is secular and being the dominate power likely teaches this in both it’s culture and school systems this will within a few generations quickly reduce the number of “believers” rather drastically or at least those willing to actively engage in any sort of religious Jihad. It’s just a fact of life those that are exposed to a secular environment and well educated come out secular.

Quote:
Ever since the collapse, most of the Belka peoples ended up in outlying areas where TSAB support has been very limited due to resources and bureaucratic troubles of their own.
You have basiclly no evidence for this, but admittedly there’s little counter evidence either even so it’s awfully convenient.

Quote:
Discrimination against Belka doesn't help (I'm bankrolling completely using Regius here, even though I'm stretching it out of proportion).
So you admit that and do it anyway frankly this entire idea is VERY suspect IMO where is this “racism” exactly? For Christ sake the TSAB is teaching a slightly modified version of Belkan magic too it’s recruits! This is your idea of “racism”? Even Regius isn’t any kind of example IMO he resented the church yes; because they were using there influence to bully in on government responsibilities. Whatever you happen to think of the ends the means were VERY MUCH suspect. Just look at good ol’president Bush when he started talking about god in relation to policy people nearly had aneurisms. Religion and religious institutions have no fucking place messing around in government. After all we’ve all seen how well THAT worked back in the DARK AGES

So basiclly what do you have? NOTHING all throughout the series we even the Wolkies who are not only Belkan, but former criminals being treated rather well on the whole. In fact even trying to class Belkans as a race is suspect where are the morphological differences? At best they’re an ethnic group though even that seems shaky they speak the same language, live in the same countries, and appear to have almost totally assimilated into the culture at large. At this point IMO the differences between Mids and Belkans are similar to those between Irish, German, and English Americans which is say almost none as pretty much all white Americans are so interbreed there’s really no difference anymore and all of them adhere to basiclly the same dominate culture of the United States.

Another example might be England where the Scottish are despite a few hold over elements pretty close in culture to anyone else on the inland nowadays. Don’t anyone come in here and lecture me on 50 asininely small points of difference I’m speaking generally here.

Quote:
So you have lots and lots of disgruntled, poor and disillusioned people ripe for the picking,
According too you I’m not seeing this at all given that most of your key issues are basiclly made up whole cloth though that’s not surprising.

Quote:
with lots and lots of places to hide.
Where? The TSAB probably has a pretty tight hammer lock of travel they almost certainly control all the teleporters and starship travel. Mages can somewhat get around this with teleporting but that’s WAY to small scale to set up a major military force.

Quote:
Even Jail managed to hide his labs under the very noses of TSAB without much stealth technology,
If by “hide” you mean “was in regular contact with TSAB officials who acutally knew exactly where is labs where and KEPT THERE AGENTS AWAY FROM THEM.” Did you even watch the series?!


Quote:
much less the Brotherhood who have been battling TSAB for more than a century,
And doing jack shit as expected.

Quote:
accumulated and regularly smuggled weapons in from the outer realms,
HOW.

Quote:
and know about every trick in the book about hiding.
Sure they do and of course the TSAB knows nothing about finding people hiding I mean there main mission is only chasing after people that don’t want to be found.

Quote:
And the further the planet is from Midchilda, the less control TSAB has over it.
Control is relative and when you control nearly all means of long distance travel…

Quote:
Of course, them springing out across every Blue Zone planet once the Main HQ is destroyed like in the game is completely out of whack for the size ratio.
Nevermind they could never mass the forces you seem to be saying in any sane scenario.

Quote:
But making small psychologically effective strikes very quickly, like it is with the HQ, and rapidly taking down Midchilda, if they are not stopped, things will quickly collapse.
They'll never take down Mid cause they'd never be able to get enough forces onto the planet to be a threat end of story.

Quote:
But that's if its his plan anyway. We all know Skane wanted suicide to do something else. And its got to do with the Tronium, which has also been seeded in the Yellow and Red zones, scattered by Precia's botched experiment.
That fails epicly too sorry but mid didn't GLOW FROM ORBIT Kha.

Nanoha isn't CnC the situations are completely different WAY too different for something like Nod to work, and you're not going to be able to MAKE it CnC either. This is merely another example IMO of you simply not thinking things through AT ALL. If you wanted something inspired by Nod okay that's cool there clearly some potential to adapt them, but it's not going to be the Nod we know because Nanoha isn't CnC. But no that would be WAY to hard so instead we'll just Copy and Paste Nod wholesale into Nanoha, totally rip off CnC 3s plot, and daftly ignore all the problems that make the entire thing utterly unworkable in the new setting.

Honestly stuff like this is what makes me want to hit you, you're not putting forth ANY effort to adapt it to the setting you're just trying to copy and paste a radically different universe over wholesale. Keroko at least adapted her Cyborg to the verse and was vauge about his overall motives with concerns to Nod. You meanwhile are just grabbing fist fulls of CnC Canon and trying to duct-tape them onto Nanoha and hoping the entire mess sorta kinda holds together.
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Old 2008-06-09, 01:11   Link #1078
Kha
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*hides before Keroko*

Hidoi.... T_T

And Midchilda did glow. The Cradle was assaulted by a 12 way cannon blast. That is a lot of energy.

But the rest of the points does remind me of things... Needs more thinking, especially on the size and scale of an assault if it happens. But some points have been considered, but because they are crucial plotpoints, I cannot elaborate on them just yet.
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Old 2008-06-09, 06:59   Link #1079
haiz123321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Last line, when Yuuno started counting the girls.
I love how Nanoha and Hayate's eyes look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Spoiler for Was about to say but reconsidered.:


EDIT: That was what I was about to say because I'm feeling paranoid. But maybe I'm just being too paranoid so I take it back, sorry for pointing fingers. But seriously. Please help me here? Because no matter how good I am at intervening conflicts, what good would it do if it keeps sprouting up again and again and again?!

Sure, my interventions are all flashy and has impact, but what good do they do in the end?! I just end up being a praised 'Peacekeeper' that seems to be able to handle problems well while the truth is I only stall the conflicts that inevitably come back time and again. To put it simply, I accomplish almost nothing but a temporary ceasefire and some words of praise that makes me feel empty instead of the desired effect. What happens is just as if I was strutting around in a show of arrogance because of what I do, bragging about making interventions to conflicts while it's in the end just an overblown act of futility. What good is a ceasefire if I can never completely remove the problem in the first place?!

It ends up being just a vicious cycle that's not much better than full-time flamefest! It's ultimately useless bringing down the hammer repeatedly if I can never get to the core of the problem! That's why I implore everyone now... help me out here too!

I don't want there to be a need to intervene in fights again in the future. I don't want any more fights to rise up again. So, PLEASE. Everybody work with me, okay?
Calm down Hayate-chan ^^

EDIT: WTF Tagged trombe?
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Old 2008-06-09, 09:51   Link #1080
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Trombe, for those moments where epic bluecheesium isn't epic enough.

On a sidenote, I suppose Maouko could count for Ratzel if I'ns happened?(Give me a full intel update, Kha) >>;
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