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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-06-12, 05:38   Link #81
Slick_rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbert View Post
I can't believe you are saying this. Do you seriously make straightforward inquiries on your friends' privacies?

I am kidding. I know there are some cases a real friend better behaving as what you suggest. But Alto is a different case. For one, either of girls is close enough to Alto to open him up; and two, either of them knows enough of Alto to venture that deep into Alto's heart. As people's hearts are always criticla areas, any misstep may ruin relationship. Girls are better to spend more time getting closer to Alto and gathering more knowledge of him, and this is what Sheryl is doing.

At this moment, Alto isn't ready and Sheryl isn't ready. But Sheryl is preparing for it and waiting for best timing to open Alto up. I'd say she is doing the smartest.
I'm not asking them to grill him about his past but eventually it will have to brought up. If you care about someone its natural to want to know about their past. Asking straightforward questions should not be some great taboo. If the person doesn't want to answer then they don't have to. If simply asking the question destroys the relationship then the relationship wasn't a strong one to begin with. I think eventually the show will put him in some sort of event that cause him to finally open up but I don't think that asking outright before hand wouldn't have been better. He might not open up right away but letting him know that they care is important. Alto doesn't seem to be a person to hate others just because they want to know more about him.

Quote:
I have said (even though I'm not sure if you have seen) the term is open for anyone to define. After all, its definition not matters, its effect matters. If you define in this way, then Ranka's put-all-in is not enough and is still too retarded. If behaving any better is out of character, then she needs to be out of character to open Alto up. You may lower requirements when it comes to Ranka and rise when Sheryl in question, but Alto treats girls equally.
I'm not lower standards, I'm adjusting them to meet the individual person. Sheryl has a lot more experience than Ranka not to mention that she's more bombastic than her. We never see Sheryl when she had just started out but even so we can imagine that she'd be embarrassed dressing up like a carrot and having little kids mock you. Alto puts his all into piloting that doesn't mean that on several occasions he is shot up, makes a mistake, or is caught gaping at the battle around him. Ranka when she was handing out her single to people on street kept going even though many people ignored her. No ones perfect (except maybe Sheryl).

We seen Ranka on the phone with Alto we knows she talks openly with him. They don't yet have a relationship where they are completely open with each other. Alto has lied to Ranka on a few occasions about him being with Sheryl. We have yet to see the opposite. So I don't know if he actually treats them equally.

Quote:
Reread Westlo's post, he means that if Ranka accepts the role only in sake of kissing Alto, it would be a negative character development but he thinks it's not very likely.
Well it definitely wasn't the only reason. She had the opportunity to play a major character in the movie and also get some much needed acting experience. Was it still a reason that she took the part in the end, certainly. If you think it would have been a negative character development then Sheryl's kiss would have been also negative. Did she just use the situation Alto and Ranka were in to steal a quick kiss? She obviously showed signs of knowing that Ranka has feelings for Alto. All's fair is love and war in my book. So I don't judge either negatively because of it.
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Old 2008-06-12, 06:44   Link #82
herbert
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I'm not asking them to grill him about his past but eventually it will have to brought up. If you care about someone its natural to want to know about their past. Asking straightforward questions should not be some great taboo. If the person doesn't want to answer then they don't have to. If simply asking the question destroys the relationship then the relationship wasn't a strong one to begin with. I think eventually the show will put him in some sort of event that cause him to finally open up but I don't think that asking outright before hand wouldn't have been better. He might not open up right away but letting him know that they care is important. Alto doesn't seem to be a person to hate others just because they want to know more about him.
I quit. I see no possibility to convince you and I don't any necessity to do so since I see your approach makes some sense. Of course I still think Sheryl has the best method.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
We seen Ranka on the phone with Alto we knows she talks openly with him. They don't yet have a relationship where they are completely open with each other. Alto has lied to Ranka on a few occasions about him being with Sheryl. We have yet to see the opposite. So I don't know if he actually treats them equally.
I also see Ranka has no interest in him. Have you ever seen Ranka ask any question about Alto? Never, she is only interested in telling about herself over and over again. If she never asks about Alto, she never push the button.

I always hate hearing people tell Alto lying to Ranka and poor Ranka-chan is hurt. Does Ranka force him to lie? Does Ranka lie to him first? Let me repeat my infamous opinion one more time, Ranka deserves being lied. If she wants an answer, asking it honestly. After all, Mikhail gets all the truth when he wants a similar answer from Alto. If you want to say someone in fault in this case, it's the one who use asymmetric information to her advantage.

Oh, I nearly forgot to ask. Where is your real-friend-ask-direct-question theory now?
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Well it definitely wasn't the only reason. She had the opportunity to play a major character in the movie and also get some much needed acting experience. Was it still a reason that she took the part in the end, certainly. If you think it would have been a negative character development then Sheryl's kiss would have been also negative. Did she just use the situation Alto and Ranka were in to steal a quick kiss? She obviously showed signs of knowing that Ranka has feelings for Alto. All's fair is love and war in my book. So I don't judge either negatively because of it.
If there is more than kissing Alto, our assumption doesn't hold here so it's not a negative develpment. You get it?

If Sheryl kisses Alto only for the sake of stealing a kiss, it's a negative character development for her. Is it worthy to be a question? Even with the new title of Super-Sheryl-Biased(a homage to Westlo), I don't deny a fact.
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Old 2008-06-12, 07:35   Link #83
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by herbert View Post
I also see Ranka has no interest in him. Have you ever seen Ranka ask any question about Alto? Never, she is only interested in telling about herself over and over again. If she never asks about Alto, she never push the button.

I always hate hearing people tell Alto lying to Ranka and poor Ranka-chan is hurt. Does Ranka force him to lie? Does Ranka lie to him first? Let me repeat my infamous opinion one more time, Ranka deserves being lied. If she wants an answer, asking it honestly. After all, Mikhail gets all the truth when he wants a similar answer from Alto. If you want to say someone in fault in this case, it's the one who use asymmetric information to her advantage.

Oh, I nearly forgot to ask. Where is your real-friend-ask-direct-question theory now?
Like I said Ranka is open with Alto while he isn't open with her. Is this entirely his fault? Hell no she shares at least half the blame. She asks him a few straightforward question but when he lies to her she doesn't call him on it. Ranka has never lied to him or forced him to lie she just doesn't tell him that he seen him with Sheryl or heard Sheryl in the background etc. In the same breath though I have to wonder why he lies to her sometimes. Is he trying not to hurt her feeling? I don't know if I truly get his reasoning yet.

Quote:
If there is more than kissing Alto, our assumption doesn't hold here so it's not a negative develpment. You get it?

If Sheryl kisses Alto only for the sake of stealing a kiss, it's a negative character development for her. Is it worthy to be a question? Even with the new title of Super-Sheryl-Biased(a homage to Westlo), I don't deny a fact.
I got it the first time. Swampstorm initial observation that the scene on the beach was only to give insight of Mao's character to Ranka. He said if it wasn't for understanding Mao then it was for getting even with Sheryl for the kiss and this would be a negative character development. This is why I try to state that she said she had two problems with taking the role. The fact of not understanding Mao and the kissing. I saying that it can be for both reasons why she took the role. If she understood Mao's role from the beginning and only had a problem with the kissing I still don't see what is negative about wanting to kiss him after she Sheryl kiss him. If you like someone and then find out someone else is after them and that motivates you to make you move then I say more fucking power to you!
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Old 2008-06-12, 07:57   Link #84
Westlo
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The Happening was pretty crappy :\ Oh well I got shouted anyway..

Anyway ickem covered it nicely which saved me typing stuff up. Also ani_d you're going to get a lot of Sheryl and Alto development in the late teens so prepare your "INCONSISTENT" posts. What a waste of a love triangle if both girls aren't developed and given good reasons to be with Alto Glad you're not writing this... because we'll have to suffer jealous Ranka for ten more episodes. I have faith in Kawamori that he won't do that... it will be like Mao in Kimikiss all over again with Mao fans going "hurry and up do something" and just pissing off everyone else.

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Originally Posted by ickem View Post
P.S. When has Alto blushed because of Ranka? I know that Ranka blushes around him a lot, but I really don't remember if he has blushed around her.
Alto blushes in episode 10 when he realizes that he has to kiss Ranka if she accepts the Mao Nome role. Though I find this funny that after constantly being told the blushing doesn't matter after episode 5 it now does. Does anyone honestly think his reaction would've been different if it was Sheryl or Nanase instead of Ranka? He blushed earlier in the episode when he realized he had to do it with a complete stranger.... Shall we get a blush count going now guys since it counts now? Sheryl 10+ Ranka 3 (let's give the ep 10 one 2 points!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbert
Even with the new title of Super-Sheryl-Biased(a homage to Westlo)
I lol'd.

Last edited by Westlo; 2008-06-12 at 08:08.
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Old 2008-06-12, 08:03   Link #85
Tsuchiro
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
The Happening was pretty crappy :\ Oh well I got shouted anyway..
Meh... was going to watch it too... oh well
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Old 2008-06-12, 09:42   Link #86
Swampstorm
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
If you can't ask a friend directly about his/her problems then you're truly not a friend. Being overly sensitive is what makes people overlook the warning signs of depression and suicidal behavior. Even if that person yells at you and tells you its none of your business. It's better to let that person know that you're there from them if they need you than to ignore the issue.
That's a bit of a straw man argument.

My suggestion was based on what is appropriate for moderate behaviour, but your reasoning is directed towards what should be done in extreme cases. Alto is neither depressed nor suicidal.

Observe, and act based on those observations. There are times when an issue should be brought up, and there are times when it shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
There is no distinction actually in Alto's mind. Why do you think he get upset about when they tease him about Kabuki? Part of the reason is certainly that it makes him think of his relationship with his father among others unresolved issues. Ignore these issues isn't good but making fun of them is probably worse.
I'm not sure about that. It's possible, but we haven't really had a chance to look into Alto's mind to begin with. Perhaps we can reach a conclusion on this after next episode.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I can't define it so narrowly. When I was a kid I did acting and I put my all in that. I woke up early, took acting classes, and when took tons of casting calls. I still had to do schoolwork. But that doesn't mean that I didn't get embarrassed, make mistakes, or didn't have doubts. Even the great Sheryl almost certainly got embarrassed at times and had doubts but she overcame that. Ranka has to work though her shy nature but she still continues to move forward. If she didn't get embarrassed or makes mistakes I'd say she'd being acting out of character.
The reason that embarrassment is something that an actor needs to overcome is because it limits their performance. If you don't believe in the role, it'll show. So while there was nothing wrong with Ranka being embarrassed about dressing up as a carrot, she wasn't giving her best shot at that particular point in time. When she learns to overcome that embarrassment, then she'll be able to give it her best shot.

I think the distinction may lie in the fact that "giving something your best shot" isn't the same as simply 'trying'. The former implies that you didn't hold anything back.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
What was that insight? It was that exactly the line you heard spoken during the kiss scene. "Look at me too." It's not dark to want the person you like to like you back. Especially if they're not married or in a relationship and even then we're only human. Ranka was embarrassed to have her first kiss being shown on the big screen in front of all her friends. That was all.
The "look at me too" line was actually a voiceover from the movie. It's part of the script for Mao.

Scripted kisses are done to the satisfaction of the director, not the satisfaction of the actors. Ranka had a job to do, and she did it. If her goal was specifically to kiss Alto, she would have done it on her own terms, off the big screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
-Alto and Ranka both inspired each other to take the next step to their own paths. Ranka to Ms. Macross, Alto to SMS.
Both Alto and Sheryl gave Ranka a pep talk in episode three. So I don't think that you can attribute Ranka's decision entirely to Alto.

I don't remember the story saying that Ranka inspired Alto to join SMS. I think you're underestimating the importance of Alto's own personal conflicts in the matter.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
-The two became close friends. Texting, chatting, more texting, and more chatting in the future episodes.
Ranka just needs to learn to use her blog as a substitute for texting her life story to Alto.

Conversations between friends aren't always about getting advice and unloading your problems. It's more about sharing your interests and your ideas. That's part of the reason why Alto is such a black box to Ranka.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
-Alto and Ranka's relationship was developed little by little in the first four episodes, sealing it off in the Nyan Nyan restaurant when Mikhail accidentally pushed Ranka to Alto.
Alto is ruined for marriage, Ranka must... Hey, wait a second...

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
-Despite the Sheryl invasion, the two are still shown to be really close as Alto even sneaks away from his job just to listen to Ranka. And mind you, Ranka doesn't have to force him.
Alto sneaks away from his job? Do you remember which scene this was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
-Ranka sees strength in Alto. She shined the brightest everytime she incorporates Alto in her thoughts. First at the Folmo, now in the movie when she admitted her feelings for him and acted it out.
He's a good mentor. But that's tells us about Alto's role in Ranka's life, rather than Ranka's role in Alto's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
-Check out how Alto treats everyone around him and compare it to how he treats Ranka. He becomes a different person whenever he's talking to Ranka one on one. You might call it brotherly, but Ranka did make Alto blush more than Sheryl ever did. Just goes to show you that Alto doesn't see Ranka as nothing but an underdeveloped little sister. And that's a huuuge potential.
Was this some sort of blushing competition?

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I'm leaving it all to Kawamori since I know he's a consistent writer.
Really? You mean even if he successfully pairs up Alto with Klan Klein in a very consistant fashion? Haesslich would be thrilled to hear that.
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Old 2008-06-12, 11:49   Link #87
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
That's a bit of a straw man argument.

My suggestion was based on what is appropriate for moderate behaviour, but your reasoning is directed towards what should be done in extreme cases. Alto is neither depressed nor suicidal.

Observe, and act based on those observations. There are times when an issue should be brought up, and there are times when it shouldn't.
While I certain he's not suicidal he does sort of act recklessly when he's flying. A possible cause of this is his wanting to prove himself in flying so people will forget about his Kabuki. I think his flying is adversely affected by his issues from the past. And yes I do believe you should pick your times to bring up sensitive issues but I think people are often too reluctant to be straightforward about issues.

We can look at the time with Michael and Alto when he shot his VF by mistake. Michael didn't come out with his issues and Alto just assumed he did it on purpose without asking him straight up if there was a reason. Klan telling Alto what the issues was that actually helped the two resolve the issue. Klan was straightforward even though she knew Michael wouldn't thank her for it. And it took Alto putting himself in a position where Michael could make amends/ get over it for the issue to finally be resolved.

Quote:
The reason that embarrassment is something that an actor needs to overcome is because it limits their performance. If you don't believe in the role, it'll show. So while there was nothing wrong with Ranka being embarrassed about dressing up as a carrot, she wasn't giving her best shot at that particular point in time. When she learns to overcome that embarrassment, then she'll be able to give it her best shot.

I think the distinction may lie in the fact that "giving something your best shot" isn't the same as simply 'trying'. The former implies that you didn't hold anything back.
I believe the distinction truly lies in the end result being the deciding factor. I don't believe the end result is the only thing that influences if someone gave it their all. If we take two people, one who is naturally gifted and experience orator and another who has little experience at speech, and throw them in the middle of a stage. The gifted person does a flawless speech and draws standing ovations. The inexperienced person goes up there and makes a couple mistakes, stammers a few times but all in all does a decent speech. I will say 90 percent of the time the one that gave it his all was the inexperienced person. Why? The experienced person could do it in there sleep and was probably only half awake while doing it. The inexperienced one will have to overcome his nervousness and inexperience. That he isn't perfect at this doesn't make his effort any less than 100 percent.

It the same as in school where they're students who give it their all in exams but come out scoring less than another who never even opened his book. Some people are more naturally gifted as some things or more experienced. The end result shouldn't be the only thing you judge "giving you all" on but also the individual who's involved.


Quote:
The "look at me too" line was actually a voiceover from the movie. It's part of the script for Mao.

Scripted kisses are done to the satisfaction of the director, not the satisfaction of the actors. Ranka had a job to do, and she did it. If her goal was specifically to kiss Alto, she would have done it on her own terms, off the big screen.
It's a voice over from the movie but one not from the actual Macross Zero. The line was added to show Mao's feeling at the time and to convey that this is feelings that Ranka now understands. That kiss scenes aren't for the satisfaction of actors doesn't mean that they can't find it satisfying. Ranka didn't specifically chose to do the role because she wanted to kiss Alto. One of the reasons she wasn't going to do the role was because of her reluctance to kiss him. That changed when she saw Sheryl kiss him. Maybe it was jealousy, or competitiveness. Who knows. It probably similar reason that Sheryl kissed Alto in the first place. Either way that changed Ranka reluctance into a reason to do it. Not the goal but just another reason.
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Old 2008-06-12, 11:53   Link #88
ickem
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Sheryl's latest blog entry is her wondering about how emotions seem to collect at the fingertips, hair, and lips. She writes "Quite troublesome places, don't you think? But, maybe that's why we want them touched. Want them to be touched. Do you understand this feeling?" I guess this confirms the speculations that some people have had about her reaction to the kiss.
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Old 2008-06-12, 11:53   Link #89
CaptGloval
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Alto sneaks away from his job? Do you remember which scene this was?
I think what was meant was Alto squeezed some time off his training to watch Ranka in the Miss Macross pageant. It's a promise he partially fulfilled (because Ozma called him back for his test dogfight).

Come to think of it, the earring was another partially unfulfilled promise from Alto, this time to Sheryl. But it seems the girls are ok with it, as long as he's still there and he has some excuse for the shortcoming.
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Old 2008-06-12, 12:27   Link #90
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by ickem View Post
Sheryl's latest blog entry is her wondering about how emotions seem to collect at the fingertips, hair, and lips. She writes "Quite troublesome places, don't you think? But, maybe that's why we want them touched. Want them to be touched. Do you understand this feeling?" I guess this confirms the speculations that some people have had about her reaction to the kiss.
Sounds like she wanted to make out with him big time.
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Old 2008-06-12, 14:41   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Westlo
And if this wasn't a Kawamori series I'll be saying it's 90-10 in Ranka's favor because Sheryl's archetype loses 90% of the time in anime and Ranka is the safe, boring, conventional winner.
Exactly, the strongest point a Sheryl ending can muster is that this is Kawamori's show. I don't blame you at all. There was nothing in the story that indicates a Sheryl ending is stronger than a Ranka ending. There was nothing to counter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
I'm not the one who's being stubborn and shouting INCONSISTENT INCONSISTENT if my pairing doesn't get it's way even though we still have 15 episodes to go through.
Yes, I do, and I will say "inconsistent" as often when I see that it is. You are open to a Ranka ending, because you can see it. I'm not open to a Sheryl ending because I can't see it. Didn't I say I will acknowledge a Sheryl ending once I see it? I clearly don't. x__x; Even in those 15 episodes, I doubt all of them will be pure Sheryl-centric.

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Originally Posted by Tsuchiro View Post
did you ever watch sdf macross? because that list you came up with is almost exactly like how hikaru and minmei were.
Hikaru falling out of love from Minmei happened slowly, little by little, with sufficient reasons resulting from bastardizing Minmei's character. When Hikaru lost one of his allies, Minmei asked him to come visit him because she was sick--in a very prima donna manner. Hikaru hung up on her, and still she didn't get the message. She called him 'weird' :| (Is she retarded? =_=) Even I was surprised with the amount of bastardizing Minmei got. If that's not character bastardizing, then what is this development supposed to be? Hearing people argue that Ranka and Alto are going to end up like this because Kawamori did it in the past is a very weak argument. We're dealing with two different individuals here with a different kind of relationship. Even if there's similarities, count on it, it's not going to end the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
She watched an episode or two and than read the Wiki, instant expert. She was arguing with me on Omni's blog that Misa's banter with Hikaru in the first episode meant more than Minmei did in the initial episodes.
Tryng to discredit me? For everyone's sake I did check out the episodes myself afterwards only to find out my point was right---as I expected. Minmei's character was bastardized. It took a lot of factor to ruin Minmei and Hikaru's relationship and the strongest out of all of them was Minmei's self-centeredness. How long did it take him to choose Misa over Minmei even despite those blatant shortcomings? Right at the last episode. The story clearly did not ignore the fact that Hikaru first loved Minmei. That's what you call consistency. The gradual shift from Minmei to Hayase was fair and realistic. It didn't come from the left field, we saw it coming, it happened.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem
Well Misa and Hikaru weren't the best of friends in their first encounter. Onna can mean either girl or woman. I can't see how anyone can see Ranka as anything but a girl really, and one that appears younger than she is.
Hmm...I thought musume or shoujo pertains to 'girl' in Japanese? Either way, Misa spent a whole lot of effort to win Hikaru throughout the series just because of that same fact you just pointed out. With Ranka falling in love with Alto, and the fact that the central plot works around her, what are Sheryl's chances of turning the table here unless Ranka gets out of the picture--either through dying or bastardizing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem
Actually it was Sheryl that spurred both of them into reaching for their dreams in episode three. Sheryl was the one who told her that the Miss Macross pageant was her chance.
It's all right to give Sheryl credit as well since she did have some input in it. However, ignoring the most notable elements in the issue is a little bit too far. Right at the hill, Alto and Ranka came to a stop to reflect. The two ended up easing each other's self-doubt to take the next step. It wasn't about Sheryl at all. It was about them and their respective paths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem
As for the platonic bond between the two fraying, it isn't like they stopped talking with each other when Sheryl came to the fore so I'm not sure what that has to do with this.
The point is, Alto's 'preferred buddy' didn't change just because Sheryl hangs out with him more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem
Ranka and Alto are just friends at this point, just like Alto and Sheryl. And it didn't seem like Alto was "sneaking" away to speak with Ranka. It was more like the shooting had stopped so that they could make preparations such as hooking Sheryl up to the wires.
When I said 'sneak out' I meant, Alto was willing to make time to listen to Ranka even at the cost of making the crew wait and disrupting the production. Sheryl practically had to scream at him to get him back lol That's saying something considering how non-compliant he is to everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem
Well, we were watching from Ranka's point of view because it was a Ranka centric episode since Bird Human is shot from Mao's point of view...
I think one of the many reasons why I think Ranka has more focus in the show is that, we rarely see Sheryl talk about Ranka in first person POV. When you see a character talk in first person, she takes up all of the focus and makes the people around her look irrelevant. This is basically what Ranka has been doing to Sheryl 90% of the time and it was in full force here in episode 10. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only who can see this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem
I don't really see a change in his personality when he's with Ranka. The reason that he treats her the way he does is because she doesn't push any of his buttons and she comes to him for advice.
Alto's either hot or cold. 80% of the time, he's out there pissed off, bored, or wallowing in self-pity lol It's only when he's alone with Ranka that he gets to routinely exercise his warm personality. Besides, paper airplane poke assault? Head patting? Piggyback? Warm smiles? Gentle intonation? It's a change in behavior as far as I can see.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and mention his participation in the movie after Mikhail and Ranka's manager talked to him. He didn't cross-dress, but he watched out for an opening role just so he can participate. I thought that was really sweet of him to do that. All for Ranka-chan lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem
When she isn't asking for advice and encouragement in becoming a singer he is just as brusque and seemingly uninterested with her as with his other friends, i.e. when Michel first announces that they will show her around.
I said wait till they're alone.
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Old 2008-06-12, 14:47   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
While I certain he's not suicidal he does sort of act recklessly when he's flying. A possible cause of this is his wanting to prove himself in flying so people will forget about his Kabuki. I think his flying is adversely affected by his issues from the past. And yes I do believe you should pick your times to bring up sensitive issues but I think people are often too reluctant to be straightforward about issues.
Posing his Battroid like he just finished a show isn't doing him any wonders in that regard. For that matter I kind of wondered if maybe, just maybe he cut his hair during ep. 10, but no dice. As adamant as he is about being his own man, he's still holding on to his past on some level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
It's a voice over from the movie but one not from the actual Macross Zero. The line was added to show Mao's feeling at the time and to convey that this is feelings that Ranka now understands. That kiss scenes aren't for the satisfaction of actors doesn't mean that they can't find it satisfying. Ranka didn't specifically chose to do the role because she wanted to kiss Alto. One of the reasons she wasn't going to do the role was because of her reluctance to kiss him. That changed when she saw Sheryl kiss him. Maybe it was jealousy, or competitiveness. Who knows. It probably similar reason that Sheryl kissed Alto in the first place. Either way that changed Ranka reluctance into a reason to do it. Not the goal but just another reason.
I don't think it was jealousy, or competitiveness really. I think the significance of it was Ranka looking in the mirror, so to speak, and really understanding and acknowledging her feelings towards Alto, and to an extent Sheryl mirrored in the story of "Bird Human." Regardless of (or maybe because of) the kiss scene she really could put her heart into the role, regardless of the fact she probably never saw herself as an actress before.

Of course, Ranka isn't 11 like Mao was, so that leaves things a bit more open in the grand scheme of things...
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Old 2008-06-12, 15:10   Link #93
ani_d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick
It's a voice over from the movie but one not from the actual Macross Zero. The line was added to show Mao's feeling at the time and to convey that this is feelings that Ranka now understands. That kiss scenes aren't for the satisfaction of actors doesn't mean that they can't find it satisfying. Ranka didn't specifically chose to do the role because she wanted to kiss Alto. One of the reasons she wasn't going to do the role was because of her reluctance to kiss him. That changed when she saw Sheryl kiss him. Maybe it was jealousy, or competitiveness. Who knows. It probably similar reason that Sheryl kissed Alto in the first place. Either way that changed Ranka reluctance into a reason to do it. Not the goal but just another reason.
Quoted for truth. I feel like I saw a different version of this scene based on people's intrepretations.
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Old 2008-06-12, 15:30   Link #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem View Post
Sheryl's latest blog entry is her wondering about how emotions seem to collect at the fingertips, hair, and lips. She writes "Quite troublesome places, don't you think? But, maybe that's why we want them touched. Want them to be touched. Do you understand this feeling?" I guess this confirms the speculations that some people have had about her reaction to the kiss.
Ah yes, I remember reading that blog entry too!

And I agree....the Sheryl that we see when she interacts with most people (or all) seems to wear a mask and that facade hides her true self which is vulnerable. This blog entry obviously shows that. But whenever she spends more time with Alto, I could clearly see that her mask slowly cracking even more.

These blog posts of hers are quite interesting anyway as it fills me in on her inner being. It makes her more 3-dimensional.


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Old 2008-06-12, 15:46   Link #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Exactly, the strongest point a Sheryl ending can muster is that this is Kawamori's show. I don't blame you at all. There was nothing in the story that indicates a Sheryl ending is stronger than a Ranka ending. There was nothing to counter
As far as I'm concerned episodes 5-8 form a base for Alto & Sheryl similar to how episodes 1-4 did the same for Alto & Ranka. It's a gradual build up and it looks like they're taking it in turns. I really don't think that Sheryl can fully take action until she realizes she might lose him (and even than she'll be conflicted because she's friends with Ranka) so that's why I'm happy to see things going the way they are.

Quote:
When I said 'sneak out' I meant, Alto was willing to make time to listen to Ranka even at the cost of making the crew wait and disrupting the production. Sheryl practically had to scream at him to get him back lol That's saying something considering how non-compliant he is to everyone.
You have no idea if they were setting something up and during the call it was done, you should know Sheryl takes her work seriously so I doubt she would've let Alto talk for 5 mins on the phone when things were ready to go.

Quote:
Alto's either hot or cold. 80% of the time, he's out there pissed off, bored, or wallowing in self-pity lol It's only when he's alone with Ranka that he gets to routinely exercise his warm personality. Besides, paper airplane poke assault? Head patting? Piggyback? Warm smiles? Gentle intonation? It's a change in behavior as far as I can see.
Yes he was like this with Ranka in episode 6, oh wait it wasn't Ranka.. who was it... um I'm sure the name will come to me...
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Old 2008-06-12, 15:50   Link #96
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Episode 6 was when they're getting sent out to galaxy, didn't think he had any self pity or anything only thing i can think of in that epi that might have any relation to that is when Alto gives Sheryl her earing back and his all like meh <.<
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Old 2008-06-12, 15:54   Link #97
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I'd love to see translations of these blogs. They sound really interesting to understanding the characters who are doing them.

As for the whole romance thing. I'm in the Alto x Sheryl camp. To me they just fit together so well. I just don't see that kind of connection with Alto x Ranka. Yes he relaxes round her when they're alone together. But those times have generally only been chance encounters at a point when they needed each other. But Alto's indifference that he's shown round her sometimes also shows to me that Ranka only affects him when he's in a certain mood. In normal situations he doesn't particularly care for her or anyone else. But Sheryl seems to get through to him no matter what. Plus I don't see Alto as the type to take just anyone kissing him. He's shown to be confrontational about things he doesn't like. Yet he's never reacted confrontational about her kissing him.
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Old 2008-06-12, 16:43   Link #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
As far as I'm concerned episodes 5-8 form a base for Alto & Sheryl similar to how episodes 1-4 did the same for Alto & Ranka. It's a gradual build up and it looks like they're taking it in turns. I really don't think that Sheryl can fully take action until she realizes she might lose him (and even than she'll be conflicted because she's friends with Ranka) so that's why I'm happy to see things going the way they are.
While episodes 5-8 may be considered a base for Sheryl and Alto dynamics, it is also a base for Ranka's developing feelings. In episode 10, she was ready to wear an 'I love Alto' shirt. This whole scenario actually reminded me of Shin and Noe's date in True Tears. The Hiromi undertone in it was horrible. =__=

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
You have no idea if they were setting something up and during the call it was done, you should know Sheryl takes her work seriously so I doubt she would've let Alto talk for 5 mins on the phone when things were ready to go.
Yup, but the point still stands that Alto makes time for Ranka no matter where he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
Yes he was like this with Ranka in episode 6, oh wait it wasn't Ranka.. who was it... um I'm sure the name will come to me...
So this one scene where Alto became warm to Sheryl for once is supposed to be a lot stronger than Alto's consistent warm treatment of Ranka from the get go.

Ah, I think I've burned enough of my brain cells =__= Despite all those rational evidences I typed, there's no way I'm changing anyone's opinions here Being a Ranka advocate is tough.
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Old 2008-06-12, 16:48   Link #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
So this one scene where Alto became warm to Sheryl for once is supposed to be a lot stronger than Alto's consistent warm treatment of Ranka from the get go.
He seemed annoyed when she was introduced to his class. That bitterness continued all the way up til the moment Sheryl drove up with Co-eds splattered on the windshield.
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Old 2008-06-12, 16:48   Link #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra View Post
I'd love to see translations of these blogs. They sound really interesting to understanding the characters who are doing them.

Yes, they really do help with understanding the characters better. I was hoping for an Alto blog but I don't see that one appearing anytime soon.


I've also been keeping up with some of Ranka's blog post (actually the more recent ones) but in all honesty, they are a bit petty and shallow. Of course, it's still too early to see if this will be consistent or not but so far some of Sheryl's blog posts are a bit deeper and more heartfelt....well...from what I've read so far. I still need to back track for the earlier entries but once I get around to do that maybe I can post some summaries of each blog....or maybe Ickem and I can take turns? *shrugs*....I guess whoever gets to them first I suppose.


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