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Old 2008-06-12, 20:10   Link #1101
Griffen-Derek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_kenshin View Post
whether or not it was then, clearly romantic ties will happen now which is the reason for the 7 year timeskip. The anime clearly made it one of love and the manga was more indecisive but since Yagi had some say in the anime, its intention was one of romanticism

It might be possible that clear romantic ties happen now, as most of the major characters are gathering together once more and now they might have the chance to know each other better.

But if Helen means that Claymores are sterile, there would hardly be a point in romantic involvement for example between Clare and Cid, or Clare and Raki, or Deneve and Galk, or even Deneve and Helen, being this last example the only one among the above that would make some sense.

Besides that, the girls remain what they are since the end of Pieta's arc: the 7 Ghosts. Rogue Claymores with a solid driving goal: taking down the Organization. And with the iron will to pave such a harsh way.

Reasons why I'm led to believe the nature of that kiss still can be something else, other than romanticism. She treats Raki like a brother all the time, hence the slight punch she gives him in episode 3 of the anime.

I wouldn't be surprised if Raki told Clare "I love you and although you never said it I know you love me, and now we can finally stay together", and Clare replied:

"Don't misunderstand" or "You've misunderstood" (quite familiar coming from Clare!)

Then she goes:

"I've been your Guardian back there, and after taking care of a boy who had suffered losses and prejudice pretty much like I did, to let him die under any of the two monsters back in Gonahl would make people and even the Organization think it was my fault, and such would be a burden I could never carry with me. I only managed to have you gather strenght to carry on by yourself. And now that I see that you are safe and sound, alive and kicking, I know this mission is accomplished".

Raki: "?...???... Mission???" *falls back making a loud noise, legs in the air* (I'm kidding about the legs in the air part)


I see now the doubt about the kiss meaning in Scene 34/Episode 12 is not only mine. And thus I insist that understanding its meaning back there, in both the manga and the anime, does matter.

And exactly because of details like the above, and Yagi having influence on the anime, that the anime made the meaning of the kiss scene as unclear as it is in that manga chapter. No way its clearly one of love. No way its clearly meant to be in a way or another. And it is still easier to think the kiss is meant to be a vow of trust, confidence to make him feel stronger and resolved to survive as long as needed.

The only way to make the meaning of that scene clear, in both anime and manga, is understanding how the japanese culture applies to Yagi's inspiration concerning the creation of the scene kiss. Such comprehension is critical in order to figure out how this new arc and the next ones will evolve.

So, anyone knows or has ideas considering the many possible visions of a Kiss the Japanese people might have?
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Old 2008-06-12, 20:11   Link #1102
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That guy didn't have sex with Teresa. He never got the chance because of Clare and I'd like to believe even though Teresa seemed like she was going to let him that ultimately she would have stopped him. What reason would she have to let him. I agree with you that from a biological standpoint claymores are probably sterile and that ABs might be able to have kids, because i doubt that little girl is priscilla. It'll be interested to see what Yagi has done here hopefully.
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Old 2008-06-12, 20:15   Link #1103
evil_kenshin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffen-Derek View Post
It might be possible that clear romantic ties happen now, as most of the major characters are gathering together once more and now they might have the chance to know each other better.

But if Helen means that Claymores are sterile, there would hardly be a point in romantic involvement for example between Clare and Cid, or Clare and Raki, or Deneve and Galk, or even Deneve and Helen, being this last example the only one among the above that would make some sense.

Besides that, the girls remain what they are since the end of Pieta's arc: the 7 Ghosts. Rogue Claymores with a solid driving goal: taking down the Organization. And with the iron will to pave such a harsh way.

Reasons why I'm led to believe the nature of that kiss still can be something else, other than romanticism. She treats Raki like a brother all the time, hence the slight punch she gives him in episode 3 of the anime.

I wouldn't be surprised if Raki told Clare "I love you and although you never said it I know you love me, and now we can finally stay together", and Clare replied:

"Don't misunderstand" or "You've misunderstood" (quite familiar coming from Clare!)

Then she goes:

"I've been your Guardian back there, and after taking care of a boy who had suffered losses and prejudice pretty much like I did, to let him die under any of the two monsters back in Gonahl would make people and even the Organization think it was my fault, and such would be a burden I could never carry with me. I only managed to have you gather strenght to carry on by yourself. And now that I see that you are safe and sound, alive and kicking, I know this mission is accomplished".

Raki: "?...???... Mission???" *falls back making a loud noise, legs in the air* (I'm kidding about the legs in the air part)


I see now the doubt about the kiss meaning in Scene 34/Episode 12 is not only mine. And thus I insist that understanding its meaning back there, in both the manga and the anime, does matter.

And exactly because of details like the above, and Yagi having influence on the anime, that the anime made the meaning of the kiss scene as unclear as it is in that manga chapter. No way its clearly one of love. No way its clearly meant to be in a way or another. And it is still easier to think the kiss is meant to be a vow of trust, confidence to make him feel stronger and resolved to survive as long as needed.

The only way to make the meaning of that scene clear, in both anime and manga, is understanding how the japanese culture applies to Yagi's inspiration concerning the creation of the scene kiss. Such comprehension is critical in order to figure out how this new arc and the next ones will evolve.

So, anyone knows or has ideas considering the many possible visions of a Kiss the Japanese people might have?
You seem dead set in your ways and that doesn't sound at all like what Clare would say *shrugs* its clearly romance and nothing else. Even look at Clare's face when she hears Raki may have a daughter its a mix of disappointment/sadness and actual true happiness when Clare hears Raki is alive (the first time she's shown such emotion since becoming a half yoma)

Last edited by evil_kenshin; 2008-06-12 at 20:28.
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Old 2008-06-12, 20:15   Link #1104
chibamonster
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If AB's can have children then there is a whole new problem: xenocide against humans and the rise of a new race superior being. In the world we know so far there are only as many AB's as there are Claymores that awaken. But what if this is not true back on the home land? For instance they put male AB's out immediately for battle and probably did not know the repercussions. Getting rid of AB's in a controlled environment is one thing, but if they can breed then a whole new issue arises. I would not be surprised if while the organization was tinkering with a Claymores body they make sure they cannot give birth to keep their protocol under wraps. It would warp my mind with awesomeness if Claymore brought actual family dynamics into the story.

I am curious why the organization is going to the effort of perfecting their warrior through such unscrupulous means. World domination? Saving mankind from some greater monster? Winning a war? We have much yet to see. It seems like the AB's strength was not left wanting but the issue was that the AB's became much worse monsters than those they were built to fight.

As for Clare's kiss with Raki I think she did it to make him focus . He was more afraid of losing Clare than he was of dying. It did not matter to Raki if he did die as long as he could be with Clare. Kissing him seemed like a way to show that Clare reciprocated Raki's feelings without her saying anything. She did not want him to die meaninglessly for her even if as a child she probably would have wanted to die with Teresa. Clare promised Raki that by leaving and living he was not betraying her and that they could both stay alive and eventually reunite. Neither of them had anyone else in the world. Even 7 years later when they have both made new and powerful friends their promise is still burned into both of their hearts. I think their relationship is fairly interesting because without each other they both would have died.
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Last edited by chibamonster; 2008-06-12 at 20:43.
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Old 2008-06-12, 21:19   Link #1105
evil_kenshin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chibamonster View Post
As for Clare's kiss with Raki I think she did it to make him focus . He was more afraid of losing Clare than he was of dying. It did not matter to Raki if he did die as long as he could be with Clare. Kissing him seemed like a way to show that Clare reciprocated Raki's feelings without her saying anything. She did not want him to die meaninglessly for her even if as a child she probably would have wanted to die with Teresa. Clare promised Raki that by leaving and living he was not betraying her and that they could both stay alive and eventually reunite. Neither of them had anyone else in the world. Even 7 years later when they have both made new and powerful friends their promise is still burned into both of their hearts. I think their relationship is fairly interesting because without each other they both would have died.
true i guess, but i still stand by one of the reasons of the 7 year timeskip is to make it be more than just friends/companions and to make it seem less like Clare is weird for being with Raki lol.

i mean why 7 years? why not make it 3? 15 ? it's just to convenient that as soon as Raki reaches the same physical age as Clare, that they are going to reunite.
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Old 2008-06-12, 21:56   Link #1106
Griffen-Derek
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Originally Posted by evil_kenshin View Post
You seem dead set in your ways and that doesn't sound at all like what Clare would say *shrugs* its clearly romance and nothing else. Even look at Clare's face when she hears Raki may have a daughter its a mix of disappointment/sadness and actual true happiness when Clare hears Raki is alive (the first time she's shown such emotion since becoming a half yoma)
I agree about her being immensely happy, for that moment. Cid's news were already 1 year old.

So all she knows is that he was alive until one year before her return to Rabona. Her face was that of someone feeling a warm relief when hearing good news, but a relief that rapidly looses effect and becomes cold.

Apart from that, she did seem surprised, and naturally shocked. After all, so much new info all of a sudden after so much time only assuming he could have escaped alive from Pieta. I saw no disappointment/sadness in her reactions. She knows she can't take that info and just assume he is still safe one year later.

You seem truly dead set about this romance thing. I referred to the kiss and you came with hipothetical couples(???)... And I said a lot more than just that, the dialogue I made was a mere joke based on how she answers Raki's innocent sayings. Unfortuantely you lost focus when replying to my post. Indeed, you're not even willing to think about the original question I posted here, to which you limited yourself to reply:
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_kenshin View Post
whether or not it was then
*shrugs*.

Now:
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_kenshin View Post
clearly romantic ties will happen now which is the reason for the 7 year timeskip
(???) the reason? "the" reason? not at all.

Unless they - the 7 Ghosts - start saying all that time hiding, training, planning and continuously supressing their Youki was all just for fun, and kill some time... That, by the way, would be really far away from sounding like anything the girls would say anywhere, anytime at all. Besides, would also have to be added to that: ignoring the whole theories sustained by Miria in Scene 79 (the whole laboratory thing and the enormous war plot raging on in distant lands), which she confirmed now in S80 by mentioning the "reliable source", words solid enough to persuade even Galatea in the same talk. And ignoring their plot to take the Organization down.

Mix it all up and then maybe you might get to have the whole 7-year timeskip mainly developed for the highly theoretical romantic relationships that might eventually take place somewhere in the uncertain future.
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Old 2008-06-12, 21:58   Link #1107
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Originally Posted by Korinov View Post
Well, I suppose that being alone as Claymores are (most of them are really alone all their lifes) can be truly horrible. Thinking seriously about it, without exceptions like Helen or Deneve (close friends), most of them speak only to one MiB.

But i think saying Teresa was 'dissapointed' because Clare bonked that guy, it's too much. Maybe from Teresa's point of view being raped by that jerk was not really terrible 'cause she was not human anymore and she hasn't any honor to defend. Plus, that pain couldn't be compared with being turned into a monster like the MiB did to her.

We're only making speculations, of course... maybe when she got demi-naked in front of the bandits she was really looking for some "fun", or maybe she was so sure that they would "run for the tall grass" that she did it to get them lost. Who knows.
I choose my words carefully there. I said:
Quote:
In some ways I think Teresa might even have been a little disappointed when Clare bonked that idiot over the head.
I don't really think Teresa cared much one way or the other.

Some people here used the word 'rape' in association with the Bandit, but that's just absurd. There is no way that that bandit could force Teresa to do anything she REALLY didn't want to do - no one in Claymore had the ability to overpower her. The only logical thing to conclude is that she let it happen. We can only speculate as to why.

I believe that while she somewhat wanted to experience sex, the setting, timing, and the partner were all wrong and hardly her first choice - in fact the bandit revolted her to the point of her being disgusted with herself, humans and the world in general. But it's not like people were lining up to be with her though, so it was probably either this bandit at that time or no one in her mind. She even left the camp site and went to a more seculded place away from Clare. Fact is though, if she didn't want to go through it, she could throw him off, got up and left at any time and there was nothing he could have done to stop her.

When Clare hit him to 'save' her, any such thoughts would be driven from her mind and Clare's love for her would make it impossible for Teresa to even think about being upset with Clare - especially considering the mixed emotions Teresa had about the whole thing in the first place.

I can't think of any other explanations why the most powerful being on the continent would let herself be assulted like that. Or am I missing something obvious?

Quote:
In Chapter 25, page 23, when Helen sees Raki at first time, she says to Clare: Oh, you brought a child. It can't be your own, so you picked up a stray on the road. Of course, I seriously doubt than Helen had tried to "make a child" before, but it sounds like Claymores are really sterile. Maybe the MiB told everyone that in orden to prevent possible problems. Maybe it's not true, I dunno.
I'm looking at the japanese text to see if there was any mistranslation or anything. There's no mistranslation per se, since she says:
"temee no gaki tte wakyanee darou kara..."
which does indead mean the "it can't be your kid, so..."

Helen does use the verb form 'darou' though, which is the presumptive (plain) form of desu. So, if I'm right, she's making a statement but it's a presumption at the same time. Kinda like: "since the kid can't be yours, right?, then..." or "Since surely the kid can't be yours, then...". I think it's more disblief than ruling it out as impossible, in anycase (If a Claymore had a kid and dragged it along with her on missions for over a dozen years, then I think the other Claymores would have likely heard about it).

I have also not said word one about the Org sterlizing intetionally during the Claymoreization process. I think that would be pointless, as Claymores can heal themselves. If Claymores are sterile, then it'd probably be a side effect of becoming a Claymore more than anything the Organization would do explicitly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whinnifers View Post
She did, he's mentioned in Chapter 3 in the manga and that scene appears in the anime as well. But, I'm gonna admit that I'm not sure how it relates to the whole sex thing.
It's never mentioned explicitly, but if you look at the panel, it's hard not to come to certain conclusions. But hey, maybe Clare and the youma just tripped and ended up that way or something...
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Old 2008-06-12, 22:36   Link #1108
whinnifers
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
It's never mentioned explicitly, but if you look at the panel, it's hard not to come to certain conclusions. But hey, maybe Clare and the youma just tripped and ended up that way or something...
Well, you seem like you have access to the raws and are able to discern more specifically what they're saying whenever they refer to someone. In the case of the translation it wrote "nii-san", like she was crying for an elder brother but I'm aware that title can be used for something else, a male friend? Please correct me and clarify it if I'm way off, because I am curious now.

As for the bandit thing, I'm still really reading apathy from Teresa's inaction. I'll just stick with that since it works for me, I guess.
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Old 2008-06-12, 22:43   Link #1109
chibamonster
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Hmm, if I were the organization and I wanted loyal soldiers who would die when they should and was messing with their humanity anyway I would certainly sterilyze them. Nothing would mess with loyalty as much has having something more important than the organization like a child. As Galatea said, healing has to do with memory even with defensive types, so if Claymores were sterilized when they were younger they would not know how to heal their reproductive organs that may never have begun to work. But as Cyclone said, we have not heard anything on the matter either way. We will just have to wait. And speculate.

As for Teresa I really wonder what she was thinking with the bandits. The first time when she ripped off her clothes she seemed fairly confident of their response. With the one armed guy the only thing I could think of was Teresa figured it would get him off her back even after she cut off his arm. She did not know that was his intention when she left Clare. She drew him away to explain that regardless of the rules she would defend herself against him. When she found that she would not have to kill the one armed bandit because he had a different sick goal in mind it may have just been as simple as her thinking of a horrible way to keep the rule of not killing him.

I cannot think of any person, especially one as good as *Teresa, who would want to experience someone trying to humiliate and injure them which was his goal as he said from the outset. If anything that haunting scene may have been added to show the disconnect Teresa had with humanity. It certainly was an incredible change in her mood when the guy started beating Clare though. The scene, as awful as it was, really seemed to head into the complete emergence of Teresa as a human.

*Yes, Teresa was a good person. I have certainly posted about it before and I will do it again if I have to.

@evil_kenshin: I think the time skip of 7 years indicates more of a possibility for romance in the future than the kiss shown in the past between Raki and Clare. I think we have to consider the situation Clare and Raki were in when they kissed. They were being hunted down by a Claymore who had sliced Raki apart in an attempt to make him scream while Clare tried to reattach her legs that had been severed. The conversation topic was survival and how to get away from a more powerful psychotic hunter who they were no match for. Raki was prepared to die with Clare. The goal of the kiss was to get Raki to go so he could live. Romance is a possibility for the future but in this instance I think it showed Clare's concern for Raki and the kiss was a promise. Although I think their relationship was certainly no standard guardian child. Sort of like the hug Clare gave Teresa was more than just a hug between daughter and surrogate mother. The relationships in Claymore are fascinating to me.
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Old 2008-06-12, 22:47   Link #1110
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Hmm, i think Claymores and ABs could reproduce if they wanted to but they just had no desire to. Reproduction merely involve the egg and sperm to occur. Since they could control most of their bodily functions (especially since they also can regenerate), producing an egg or sperm should be no problems for them. However, since ABs do not have parental instincts (most probably) they wouldn't be inclined to reproduce. They are also immortal, so they don't have the instinct to carry on the line either. Claymores may still retain their human instincts but they have little incentive to do so. Any girl born to them will probably be drafted into the harsh life they themselves lead. Any boys will be killed. They also have little interactions with the outside world for any romantic experiences. Their main contact with males are with the ugly Mib. (Which may have put them off somewhat)

As for sex, they also have no need for that either. The feeling of pleasure is merely a release of endorphins. They could easily achieve a greater pleasure by themselves than in a regular manner.

Along the same line, Clarice could produce milk if she wanted to. Even Dauf could if he wanted to. :P

But back to the main topic, I think the girl with Raki is Priscilla herself. Raki probably wanted to go look for Clare after he felt confident of his abilities to protect her. However, Priscilla wanted to follow Raki. Isley allowed it since few could threaten Priscilla at this point. He probably stay in the background to observe the major powers.
Either that or she is 1 of 157++ children that Raki had with Priscilla during their
1st year of their relationship :P
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Old 2008-06-12, 22:50   Link #1111
evil_kenshin
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Originally Posted by Griffen-Derek View Post
I agree about her being immensely happy, for that moment. Cid's news were already 1 year old.

So all she knows is that he was alive until one year before her return to Rabona. Her face was that of someone feeling a warm relief when hearing good news, but a relief that rapidly looses effect and becomes cold.

Apart from that, she did seem surprised, and naturally shocked. After all, so much new info all of a sudden after so much time only assuming he could have escaped alive from Pieta. I saw no disappointment/sadness in her reactions. She knows she can't take that info and just assume he is still safe one year later.
We don't know that, she only showed that face when Cid brought up the girl but she didn't seem anyway disbelieving when Galk said they would meet again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffen-Derek View Post
You seem truly dead set about this romance thing. I referred to the kiss and you came with hipothetical couples(???)... And I said a lot more than just that, the dialogue I made was a mere joke based on how she answers Raki's innocent sayings. Unfortuantely you lost focus when replying to my post. Indeed, you're not even willing to think about the original question I posted here, to which you limited yourself to reply: *shrugs*.
I'm saying its possible , i don't think we should go beyond it with "japan symbolism" since you were looking to far into it. There was no symbolism with anything in that scene.

Their bonds are beyond simple friends if they spent 7 years looking for each other and not giving up and brother & sister don't kiss either so it can't be family.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffen-Derek View Post
Unless they - the 7 Ghosts - start saying all that time hiding, training, planning and continuously supressing their Youki was all just for fun, and kill some time... That, by the way, would be really far away from sounding like anything the girls would say anywhere, anytime at all. Besides, would also have to be added to that: ignoring the whole theories sustained by Miria in Scene 79 (the whole laboratory thing and the enormous war plot raging on in distant lands), which she confirmed now in S80 by mentioning the "reliable source", words solid enough to persuade even Galatea in the same talk. And ignoring their plot to take the Organization down.

Mix it all up and then maybe you might get to have the whole 7-year timeskip mainly developed for the highly theoretical romantic relationships that might eventually take place somewhere in the uncertain future.
Huh? i said nothing about any of the others. I'm just saying it makes sense if sometime down the track there will be a relationship with Raki and Clare.

Clare herself cares nothing for Miria's goals of revenge against the organization. Heck she wanted to leave the group and its only cause Miria is following that Clare's even with them

Clare has two goals 1. Revenge 2. Reuniting with Raki

do you honestly believe Clare would sacrifice either of those two goals to help out Miria? or put Miria's goals first? Not likely

if anything Miria is desperate to keep on Clare's good side by helping her find Raki.
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Old 2008-06-12, 22:57   Link #1112
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Originally Posted by chibamonster View Post
If AB's can have children then there is a whole new problem: xenocide against humans and the rise of a new race superior being. In the world we know so far there are only as many AB's as there are Claymores that awaken. But what if this is not true back on the home land? For instance they put male AB's out immediately for battle and probably did not know the repercussions. Getting rid of AB's in a controlled environment is one thing, but if they can breed then a whole new issue arises. I would not be surprised if while the organization was tinkering with a Claymores body they make sure they cannot give birth to keep their protocol under wraps. It would warp my mind with awesomeness if Claymore brought actual family dynamics into the story.
Family dynamics would really sound great. Can you imagine a Teresa's offspring appearing in a moment of crisis? An Irene's offspring? Sons/ daughters as powerful as their mothers? Now that does make my mind race!

But unfortunately I'm afraid it is impossible. I think that, should this be possible, Isley would be working to breed a faithful army under his wing. I'd even say that he did try this, and in his anger and deep frustration after many failed attempts to breed female humans, he told Rigardo what we all know: to make Pieta become a city wihtout a single ember of life, to annihilate it in such a way it wouldn't even be called Pieta anymore. Would make some sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chibamonster View Post
I am curious why the organization is going to the effort of perfecting their warrior through such unscrupulous means. World domination? Saving mankind from some greater monster? Winning a war? We have much yet to see. It seems like the AB's strength was not left wanting but the issue was that the AB's became much worse monsters than those they were built to fight.
It seems to me the plausible main reason can be the effort to winning a war, and such effort is always on the edge, about to go out of control. S79 brings Miria mentioning a "battle for supremacy", "all for territorial reasons" (one of the common alleged reasons for war we know). I'd risk stating the first labs were built in the very lands this war is raging on. And something as terrible or even worse than what happened to the Org when Luciela "freed" herself had happened back there. Some huge, tragic experiment of catastrophic proportions back there.

Now, what is making me really really curious about right now is: the origins of the Draconic Tribe and why they forged an alliance with the humans called Dragons' Kins.

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Originally Posted by chibamonster View Post
As for Clare's kiss with Raki I think she did it to make him focus . He was more afraid of losing Clare than he was of dying. It did not matter to Raki if he did die as long as he could be with Clare. Kissing him seemed like a way to show that Clare reciprocated Raki's feelings without her saying anything. She did not want him to die meaninglessly for her even if as a child she probably would have wanted to die with Teresa. Clare promised Raki that by leaving and living he was not betraying her and that they could both stay alive and eventually reunite. Neither of them had anyone else in the world. Even 7 years later when they have both made new and powerful friends their promise is still burned into both of their hearts. I think their relationship is fairly interesting because without each other they both would have died.
Greatly well said, chibamonster!!! That's exactly the sort of reply I was expecting to read. And your opinion does make sense to me: that kiss meaning does seem to be FOCUS. Great.
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Old 2008-06-12, 23:07   Link #1113
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Originally Posted by Mangaloid View Post
That guy didn't have sex with Teresa. He never got the chance because of Clare and I'd like to believe even though Teresa seemed like she was going to let him that ultimately she would have stopped him. What reason would she have to let him.
Actually, no particular reason at all. The only thing she says is: "Fine. I don't care". And instead of just ignoring humans as usual, she begins despising the race from that moment on (except for Clare of course).
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Old 2008-06-12, 23:14   Link #1114
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Originally Posted by whinnifers View Post
Well, you seem like you have access to the raws and are able to discern more specifically what they're saying whenever they refer to someone. In the case of the translation it wrote "nii-san", like she was crying for an elder brother but I'm aware that title can be used for something else, a male friend? Please correct me and clarify it if I'm way off, because I am curious now.

As for the bandit thing, I'm still really reading apathy from Teresa's inaction. I'll just stick with that since it works for me, I guess.
While yes, technically calling someone "oniichan" does not mean you are related to them, I do not think that's the case here and the youma was indeed her older brother.

Indeed, after clare says: "big brother(oniichan) big brother(oniichan), mother and father have..." "why... why are you doing something like this?"

The naration then switches to other people talking:
"dou shimasu ano ko..." - "what are we going to do with her"
"clare ka..." - "clare?"
"chichi mo haha mo korosarete shika mo ani ga youma datta nante na" -
"not only were here father and mother killed, but her brother being a youma"
"fubin desu na..." - "so pitiable..."

blah blah blah, and ends in saying:
"the most scariest people are those close to people that a youma killed"

So basically, the translation is pretty clear, it was her brother. While clare might have used "oniichan" to refer to non family, the voices on p145 it is pretty certain did not. They said quite clearly that it the youma was indeed her older brother.
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Old 2008-06-12, 23:20   Link #1115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffen-Derek View Post
It might be possible that clear romantic ties happen now, as most of the major characters are gathering together once more and now they might have the chance to know each other better.

But if Helen means that Claymores are sterile, there would hardly be a point in romantic involvement for example between Clare and Cid, or Clare and Raki, or Deneve and Galk, or even Deneve and Helen, being this last example the only one among the above that would make some sense.

Besides that, the girls remain what they are since the end of Pieta's arc: the 7 Ghosts. Rogue Claymores with a solid driving goal: taking down the Organization. And with the iron will to pave such a harsh way.

Reasons why I'm led to believe the nature of that kiss still can be something else, other than romanticism. She treats Raki like a brother all the time, hence the slight punch she gives him in episode 3 of the anime.

I wouldn't be surprised if Raki told Clare "I love you and although you never said it I know you love me, and now we can finally stay together", and Clare replied:

"Don't misunderstand" or "You've misunderstood" (quite familiar coming from Clare!)

Then she goes:

"I've been your Guardian back there, and after taking care of a boy who had suffered losses and prejudice pretty much like I did, to let him die under any of the two monsters back in Gonahl would make people and even the Organization think it was my fault, and such would be a burden I could never carry with me. I only managed to have you gather strenght to carry on by yourself. And now that I see that you are safe and sound, alive and kicking, I know this mission is accomplished".

Raki: "?...???... Mission???" *falls back making a loud noise, legs in the air* (I'm kidding about the legs in the air part)


I see now the doubt about the kiss meaning in Scene 34/Episode 12 is not only mine. And thus I insist that understanding its meaning back there, in both the manga and the anime, does matter.

And exactly because of details like the above, and Yagi having influence on the anime, that the anime made the meaning of the kiss scene as unclear as it is in that manga chapter. No way its clearly one of love. No way its clearly meant to be in a way or another. And it is still easier to think the kiss is meant to be a vow of trust, confidence to make him feel stronger and resolved to survive as long as needed.

The only way to make the meaning of that scene clear, in both anime and manga, is understanding how the japanese culture applies to Yagi's inspiration concerning the creation of the scene kiss. Such comprehension is critical in order to figure out how this new arc and the next ones will evolve.

So, anyone knows or has ideas considering the many possible visions of a Kiss the Japanese people might have?
I think the kiss meant to bo something to give confidence or strength to raki because Clare mentions that claymores have special trainigs to have the conduct of an aristocratic girl and the seductive smile of a prostitute...
at least that is from the anime, i didnt read the first chapter of the manga ^^
i skipped to the war in the north chapters xD
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Old 2008-06-12, 23:24   Link #1116
Cyclone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffen-Derek View Post
Now, what is making me really really curious about right now is: the origins of the Draconic Tribe and why they forged an alliance with the humans called Dragons' Kins.
Oh good grief - this again?
There is no Dragons' kin - there never was. Blame blind (the translator).
There is no "Dragonic tribe" (though it's close) - blame 10sigh for this one.

The term was - and always has been - "ryuu no matsuei no ichozoku" meaning "tribe/race of the descendants of dragons".
These DoDs (for short) are one race on the enemy's side. The enemies side does not have a name (neither does the Org's side).
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Old 2008-06-12, 23:28   Link #1117
Griffen-Derek
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Originally Posted by FateAnomaly View Post
Hmm, i think Claymores and ABs could reproduce if they wanted to but they just had no desire to. Reproduction merely involve the egg and sperm to occur. Since they could control most of their bodily functions (especially since they also can regenerate), producing an egg or sperm should be no problems for them. However, since ABs do not have parental instincts (most probably) they wouldn't be inclined to reproduce. They are also immortal, so they don't have the instinct to carry on the line either. Claymores may still retain their human instincts but they have little incentive to do so. Any girl born to them will probably be drafted into the harsh life they themselves lead. Any boys will be killed. They also have little interactions with the outside world for any romantic experiences. Their main contact with males are with the ugly Mib. (Which may have put them off somewhat)

As for sex, they also have no need for that either. The feeling of pleasure is merely a release of endorphins. They could easily achieve a greater pleasure by themselves than in a regular manner.

Along the same line, Clarice could produce milk if she wanted to. Even Dauf could if he wanted to. :P

But back to the main topic, I think the girl with Raki is Priscilla herself. Raki probably wanted to go look for Clare after he felt confident of his abilities to protect her. However, Priscilla wanted to follow Raki. Isley allowed it since few could threaten Priscilla at this point. He probably stay in the background to observe the major powers.
Either that or she is 1 of 157++ children that Raki had with Priscilla during their
1st year of their relationship :P
Lol! Thinking it over, yes she could try and produce milk for Miata (oh boy). But c'mon! Would she really gather the nerve to focus and produce milk? She's constantly scared with Miata's berserk/bestial demeanor, and she is sort of forced to breastfeed her right beside piles of grinded youma meat and pools of youma blood. She's barely capable of wielding her claymore!

So yes, again I agree with you: Dauf surely can do that

Seriously now: you have a good point there, the girl with Raki could very well be Priscilla. My only doubt now is that this girl seems too small, actually smaller than what seems to be Priscilla's human size. I'd say this misterious girl's size matches that of Miata's. Of course it's not Miata with him, so her appearance is still adding mistery. I mean, if it's her, why waiting to reveal it? Yagi must have thought about the possibility that all those who follow the arcs are guessing it is Priscilla, so he could introduce yet another new powerful character, thus adding more surprises and yet another exciting arc. Which in a way could reinforce some of the breeding theories... oh wow
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Old 2008-06-12, 23:38   Link #1118
clarakiss~
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_kenshin View Post
i mean why 7 years? why not make it 3? 15 ? it's just to convenient that as soon as Raki reaches the same physical age as Clare, that they are going to reunite.
whyyy~y??

here's why --

3 years - still jailbait

15 years - too old and he'll have kids too; grampa raki jk jk!!

7 years - perfeeecto~

any questions?
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Old 2008-06-12, 23:46   Link #1119
hydropod
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Join Date: May 2007
7 seems like a number used a lot in East Asian works and figures of speach as well. Apart from 7 years and 7 Ghosts as seen here, there is also things like the seven samurais. A famous Chinese martial art novel is seven swords of mount- heaven. And even discord between married couples are called the seven year itch. So, why all sevens?
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Old 2008-06-12, 23:52   Link #1120
williamaugustus
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA. we will just leave it at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydropod View Post
7 seems like a number used a lot in East Asian works and figures of speach as well. Apart from 7 years and 7 Ghosts as seen here, there is also things like the seven samurais. A famous Chinese martial art novel is seven swords of mount- heaven. And even discord between married couples are called the seven year itch. So, why all sevens?
seven is an archetypal number. i believe it represents the combo of 4 (archetypal number for women) and 3 (archetypal number for men). 3, 4, 7 are just numbers often used in stories and stuff.
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