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Old 2008-06-13, 04:38   Link #1101
mash11
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Have you heard the saying "you can't fight evil without walking knee deep in it". Lelouch is simply utilizing that standard, it is impossible to protect everything and everyone, so he has taken it upon himself to make so that the ones who died and will die will not do so in vain, the fact that he held the empress hostage I suspect was to prevent an early war between the CHinese and Britannians, he wants it to happen on his own terms. By doing the kidnapping blame will be on him rather than on the coup. I do not find him as evil as everyone is making him out to be.
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Old 2008-06-13, 09:24   Link #1102
FireChick
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This may be a bit off-topic, but has anyone noticed that one of his Britannia relatives has the same name as the main character from some epic called 'The Odyssey'?
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Old 2008-06-13, 10:06   Link #1103
Dann of Thursday
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Yeah, it's probably just one of those little references. It could be a sign he is much more cunning than he looks, but I seriously doubt it.
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Old 2008-06-13, 10:31   Link #1104
Makoto_Must_DIE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Yeah, it's probably just one of those little references. It could be a sign he is much more cunning than he looks, but I seriously doubt it.
I doubt it also unless when it comes to getting out of situations so he can relax and be lazy. There was one episode in R1 where he looked hella relieved when Schinzel took over for him.

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There's a big difference between not being able to protect all of your forces and considering 99 percent of the world expendable.
It is true that he is willing to sacrifice for the cause, but he's not his father. Isn't that supposed to be the point?

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And who points a gun at kid? Come on. I'm getting tired of flipping between supporting Lelouch and hating him. This is why I prefer straight up heroic protagonists. They might not be as interesting but at least I never feel like an asshole for supporting them.
Life isn't black and white. There are a lot of shades of grey. Lelouche illustrates this. He's fighting for a noble cause using underhanded methods and, pretty selfish reasons. He loves his sister & friends and is willing to do ANYTHING for them. For me, that is the appeal of his character and adds depth and layer to it as opposed if he was your run of the mill cliche.
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Old 2008-06-13, 10:33   Link #1105
Dann of Thursday
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I was given the same impression. Maybe his sister the first princess is more cunning, but I doubt they can beat Schneizal or Lelouch.
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Old 2008-06-13, 10:35   Link #1106
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Yeah, it's probably just one of those little references. It could be a sign he is much more cunning than he looks, but I seriously doubt it.
Maybe it's going to be revealed that he was the mastermind all the time
Nah, rather unlikely . Here it just seems like his name implies that he's the total opposite of his namesake...
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Old 2008-06-13, 10:37   Link #1107
Dann of Thursday
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Yeah, I think they may be going for irony there.
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Old 2008-06-13, 10:40   Link #1108
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Yeah, I think they may be going for irony there.
Yeah. Maybe the emperor picked that name for him in the hope that he'd be as sly and cunning as Odysseus, but instead this talent appeared in Lelouch and Schneizel...
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Old 2008-06-13, 11:18   Link #1109
Astrana
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
War is like a game of chess: the general/commander is the king, the troops under his command are the pawns, bishops, rooks, knights.

Even during World War II when the allies planned for the invasion of Normandy, Patton and Eisenhower and all those other leaders knew that to invade Normandy would be very difficult and that during the invasion most of their troops would die and yet they sent the soldiers anyway. Because they know and understand that in war, to achieve victory sacrifices are necessary even if those sacrifices are costly and horrifying.
agreed...in a war doesnt matter how you play, clean or dirty. You win you live, you lose you die. so called "dirty" play are usually the more strategic side...
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Old 2008-06-13, 11:37   Link #1110
Makoto_Must_DIE
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agreed...in a war doesnt matter how you play, clean or dirty. You win you live, you lose you die. so called "dirty" play are usually the more strategic side...
'All's fair in love and war...'
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Old 2008-06-13, 13:56   Link #1111
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Quote:
War is like a game of chess: the general/commander is the king, the troops under his command are the pawns, bishops, rooks, knights.

Even during World War II when the allies planned for the invasion of Normandy, Patton and Eisenhower and all those other leaders knew that to invade Normandy would be very difficult and that during the invasion most of their troops would die and yet they sent the soldiers anyway. Because they know and understand that in war, to achieve victory sacrifices are necessary even if those sacrifices are costly and horrifying.
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agreed...in a war doesnt matter how you play, clean or dirty. You win you live, you lose you die. so called "dirty" play are usually the more strategic side...
Funny,just a while ago there was an argument on how LL abandoned his men and went to save Nunnalli, people would say how humane he was to not sacrifice an innocent life for the sake of millions others!!
Now when he's prepared to screw up another innocent life people going on about how it doesn't matter to sacrifice one or two people because it is war...

I'm beginning to think that for you guys each and every of LL actions is justified.If the day LL shoot Nunnalli come I won't be suprised to see people come up with how annoying she was to defend him....
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Old 2008-06-13, 14:15   Link #1112
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
Funny,just a while ago there was an argument on how LL abandoned his men and went to save Nunnalli, people would say how humane he was to not sacrifice an innocent life for the sake of millions others!!
Now when he's prepared to screw up another innocent life people going on about how it doesn't matter to sacrifice one or two people because it is war...
Those are two different groups of people. What, you think we are a hive-mind or something?
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Old 2008-06-13, 14:32   Link #1113
DN24
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Well,I didn't remember any Lelouch supporters object the 1st point and I'm fine with it too (I would choose my love over the world any day).But now everybody seem to think it's ok no matter what may happen to Tianzi.

Quote:
Those are two different groups of people. What, you think we are a hive-mind or something?
There maybe 2 different groups but they can compromise with each other and forget their own ideas as long as it benefit their beloved LL..
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Old 2008-06-13, 14:35   Link #1114
Dann of Thursday
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I think we're all convinced that Lelouch has no intention of hurting her and I see no reason to think that he would.
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Old 2008-06-13, 14:41   Link #1115
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
Well,I didn't remember any Lelouch supporters object the 1st point and I'm fine with it too (I would choose my love over the world any day).But now everybody seem to think it's ok no matter what may happen to Tianzi.
No one is saying that. What they are saying is that what is CURRENTLY happening is still excusable, pending the outcome.

You might claim there is no legitimate reason for pointing a gun at a child, but in reality there is a time and place for absolutely everything.

Just as an example, what if the gun isn't even loaded?

Not saying it isn't loaded as a fact, but I am just giving an example of how the current situation is sufficiently confusing and ambiguous enough for Lulu to still act within character.

If Lulu actually hurt a defenseless child, then we can talk. Until then, everything else is fine. As for the "mental stress" Lulu was causing, keep in mind Lee just butchered a room full of guards and the Empress wasn't phased by it. If that didn't stress her out, a gun wouldn't do much more.
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Old 2008-06-13, 15:22   Link #1116
Astrana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
Funny,just a while ago there was an argument on how LL abandoned his men and went to save Nunnalli, people would say how humane he was to not sacrifice an innocent life for the sake of millions others!!
Now when he's prepared to screw up another innocent life people going on about how it doesn't matter to sacrifice one or two people because it is war...

I'm beginning to think that for you guys each and every of LL actions is justified.If the day LL shoot Nunnalli come I won't be suprised to see people come up with how annoying she was to defend him....


You forgot Lelouch's motive to destroy Britania. It's all for Nannuli.
So yes, he will sacrifice millions of lives for Nunnalli, and he will screw up anyone (except Nunnalli and C.C, maybe Kallen) to achieve his goal..
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Old 2008-06-13, 15:28   Link #1117
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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You forgot Lelouch's motive to destroy Britania. It's all for Nannuli.
So yes, he will sacrifice millions of lives for Nunnalli, and he will screw up anyone (except Nunnalli and C.C, maybe Kallen) to achieve his goal..
The list of people Lulu isn't willing to sacrifice is much longer than he would admit. C.C. made it very clear from her observations, that Lulu is just lying to himself.

It's like how Dann keeps trying to deny he prefer the C.C.XLulu pairing by repeatedly making posts talking about how the pairing is impossible, even when everyone is getting sick of it.
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Old 2008-06-13, 17:24   Link #1118
Aquaman OS
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The list of people Lelouch isn't willing to sacrifice is like 7 people. Nunnally, Kallen, Milly, Shirley, Rivals, Suzaku (maybe, their relationship has changed lately though)and apparantly Nina. C.C. is complicated since she's much more durable than anyone else so he might be willing to sacrifice her on the likely chance she'd survive. A few of the Black Knights he might feel bad about. Rolo he already is planning to sacrifice for any reason and that's yet to change. That's a minor improvement over only Nunnally but still shows Lelouch to be a rather self centered person.

It is possible to be selfish about others. Or maybe I'm just a very odd person and can't relate to this stuff. ( I'm willing to put myself out for people I barely know when I don't have to and have done so in the past.)
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Old 2008-06-13, 19:31   Link #1119
Silver Soul
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
If Lulu actually hurt a defenseless child, then we can talk. Until then, everything else is fine. As for the "mental stress" Lulu was causing, keep in mind Lee just butchered a room full of guards and the Empress wasn't phased by it. If that didn't stress her out, a gun wouldn't do much more.
What if he were to geass her to bend her will, could that be any better by using her to get what he wants like how Suzaku used Nunally?
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Old 2008-06-13, 21:38   Link #1120
Dann of Thursday
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I don't think he'd Geass her to his will. With a parasite like that eunuch I could understand, but a little girl like her would be odd for him.
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