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Old 2008-06-13, 07:10   Link #81
Tak
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
All the more reason they deserve a beat down by Miss Blood Socks and company. They're sleeping with the enemy and our race's murderers.
Haven't you heard, if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em!

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Old 2008-06-13, 08:33   Link #82
ReddyRedWolf
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Unfortunately their definition of a desirable man is Nekki Basara.

First gen Meltrans have standards like Max Jenius. (Hey he's Max even his bridge bunnies wanted their way with him.)

To woo them you have to beat them at their specialization.

Max beat Millia in a dogfight, an arcade game and finally a knife fight.

Taking the prize when she's in tears and vulnerable.

Basara did the same thing with their daughter Emillia winning against her in a rock off breaking her into tears then sounding cool saying to there is no winning and losing in singing and her song has touched his heart also. (Damn pick up line is gaurenteed for Meltrans.)

Then there is Chlore ace pilot and commander she tried to resist the seranade in a most tsun-tsun way (with missiles) only to end up dere-dere in fangirl screams for Basara.


Unfortunately UN Spacy failed in culturing an entire Bodol sized fleet of Meltrans (Moruk Leplendis fleet) as they left us alone due to the old directive of not interfering with Protoculture. (Macross Eternal Love Song , year 2037).

It was the same time Vrlitwhai had to kick out two other Zentradi Bodol sized fleets consecutively, Bodol Neld and Bodol Burado.

Moruk Leplendis fleet left for parts unknown.

A decade later UN Spacy learns that idols don't work with Meltrans, you need rock stars.
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Old 2008-06-13, 14:01   Link #83
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Then there is Chlore ace pilot and commander she tried to resist the seranade in a most tsun-tsun way (with missiles) only to end up dere-dere in fangirl screams for Basara.
What's more deculture is that she was a contemporary of Millia's, which means she's like pushing fifty.
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Old 2008-06-13, 18:39   Link #84
Haesslich
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Well, you have to understand two things to see why things are the way they are:

1) The people now alive are almost all from the SDF Macross, the moon base, and survivors from the two Grand Cannon bunkers. The former were basically exiles due to the heartless puppetmasters who kept them from leaving the ship in the first place, and as a result they ended up being 'the lucky ones' since they survived the holocaust.... one that was both brought on them by the ship they were on, as well as stopped by it. And then they realized that they WEREN'T alone in the universe, and the Supervision Army, if not the Zentradi, would've come on them sooner or later to wipe them out or enslave them.

Basically, the Macross was their lifeline as much as anything - they got the technologies needed to spread out, allies, and also knowledge about the hostile universe they were in. The automatic defense system, IIRC, didn't kill anyone except the Zentradi, due to the way the Macross Cannon's beam had bottled itself up, to the point where people DIRECTLY under the beam (which, must be said, included most of South Ataria's population) were unharmed. The only deaths caused directly by the SDF were the ones from the devastation caused by its landing, the people in Canada who got nuked when the barrier overloaded under Quamzin's relentless assault, and those who died in the anti-UN Spacy brush wars fought between the two groups.

The BIG killers were the Zentradi, and more specifically Quamzin's and Bodole's fleets.

2) There's a good propaganda machine going. Minmay was part of it, and even now 'reports' from the Megaroad-01 come through even though the ship itself was lost along with its heroes some 30 years before. Given some of the anti-UN Spacy revolutions that have gone on in recent memory, they need to keep the propaganda going... and playing up the heroism of the original crew and survivors of the SDF Macross is one way to do so.

The SDF Macross' crew are modern-day legends - especially the dead ones. Focker, Global, and the rest are enshrined in a new mythology of a new Prometheus which saved humans from going extinct... which would've eventually happened anyways, once the Supervision Army stumbled upon Earth and its inhabitants. For all we know, if the Zentradi hadn't arrived, the Vajra would've eventually shown up on Earth's doorstep if the Supervision Army hadn't, and wiped everyone out. Given this knowledge, people would see the original Macross as a good thing... even if the Zentradi who followed it nearly killed everyone.

Hell, they're STILL doing dramas around the original love triangle. If that still captures the imagination (or is seen as useful for doing so) some forty years later...
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Old 2008-06-13, 18:49   Link #85
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Just a note, it is not confirmed if Global died of old age by the 2050s (although he did survive Space War I). By 2014, he retired an admiral and the man responsible for everything involving colonies post Space War I.

The Supervision Army is shrouded in mystery, although we assume there are a lot of them (and I mean a LOT) still around the galaxy somewhere fighting a proxy war against the Zentradi.

Hope we see them soon.

- Tak (But first things first, more info on the Vajra would be nice)
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Old 2008-06-13, 23:14   Link #86
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
Well, you have to understand two things to see why things are the way they are:

1) The people now alive are almost all from the SDF Macross, the moon base, and survivors from the two Grand Cannon bunkers. The former were basically exiles due to the heartless puppetmasters who kept them from leaving the ship in the first place, and as a result they ended up being 'the lucky ones' since they survived the holocaust.... one that was both brought on them by the ship they were on, as well as stopped by it. And then they realized that they WEREN'T alone in the universe, and the Supervision Army, if not the Zentradi, would've come on them sooner or later to wipe them out or enslave them.
And the thousands of people that died when Macross's defense mechanism kicked on. And when it transformed so it could use the main cannon. Global's reckless and stupid decision to use the Fold System over an inhabitated island or anywhere near Earth for that matter.

And the Zentradi had no interest in Earth. The Commander seems to want Macross on a whim, and is respecting his archivist's warning of avoiding contact with miclones.

Quote:
Basically, the Macross was their lifeline as much as anything - they got the technologies needed to spread out, allies, and also knowledge about the hostile universe they were in. The automatic defense system, IIRC, didn't kill anyone except the Zentradi, due to the way the Macross Cannon's beam had bottled itself up, to the point where people DIRECTLY under the beam (which, must be said, included most of South Ataria's population) were unharmed. The only deaths caused directly by the SDF were the ones from the devastation caused by its landing, the people in Canada who got nuked when the barrier overloaded under Quamzin's relentless assault, and those who died in the anti-UN Spacy brush wars fought between the two groups.
Bullshit. A good portion of the island was flat out vaporized, including a part of the city. Then of course what didn't get blown away was flooded by the sea. Even if the beam has magical "Don't kill humans" properties, the collateral damage would have snuffed out quite a few lives.

Quote:
The BIG killers were the Zentradi, and more specifically Quamzin's and Bodole's fleets.
Drawn to earth because of Macross.

Quote:
2) There's a good propaganda machine going. Minmay was part of it, and even now 'reports' from the Megaroad-01 come through even though the ship itself was lost along with its heroes some 30 years before. Given some of the anti-UN Spacy revolutions that have gone on in recent memory, they need to keep the propaganda going... and playing up the heroism of the original crew and survivors of the SDF Macross is one way to do so.

The SDF Macross' crew are modern-day legends - especially the dead ones. Focker, Global, and the rest are enshrined in a new mythology of a new Prometheus which saved humans from going extinct... which would've eventually happened anyways, once the Supervision Army stumbled upon Earth and its inhabitants. For all we know, if the Zentradi hadn't arrived, the Vajra would've eventually shown up on Earth's doorstep if the Supervision Army hadn't, and wiped everyone out. Given this knowledge, people would see the original Macross as a good thing... even if the Zentradi who followed it nearly killed everyone.
The sheer arrogance. "There was nothing before us!" It's like all that's left of humanity is the baby-boomer generation.

Quote:
Hell, they're STILL doing dramas around the original love triangle. If that still captures the imagination (or is seen as useful for doing so) some forty years later...
And they chose San Fransico because it was pretty, and an appropiate place to enclose around a million or so fruits and nuts on a intergalactic journey of sticking it in your eye.
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Old 2008-06-14, 00:41   Link #87
Haesslich
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
And the thousands of people that died when Macross's defense mechanism kicked on. And when it transformed so it could use the main cannon. Global's reckless and stupid decision to use the Fold System over an inhabitated island or anywhere near Earth for that matter.

And the Zentradi had no interest in Earth. The Commander seems to want Macross on a whim, and is respecting his archivist's warning of avoiding contact with miclones.

...

Bullshit. A good portion of the island was flat out vaporized, including a part of the city. Then of course what didn't get blown away was flooded by the sea. Even if the beam has magical "Don't kill humans" properties, the collateral damage would have snuffed out quite a few lives.
It blew a cliff wall out, vaporizing it without sending debris all over the city - you can see in shots after the fact that the city itself, underneath, was completely intact. The blast was channeled narrowly through the cliff wall, over the sea, then out into space - where it split into two. VERY fine control of the beam, that last bit... certainly finely enough to have kept anyone from getting hurt, if you'll look at later scenes. There were ONLY thousands of people living on South Ataria Island, so saying that 'thousands died' there is like saying that millions died in the San Francisco Earthquake of the early 1900's... aka fearmongering and hyperbole.

As for the Fold system, you'll notice in later episodes that a fold doesn't take a damned island with it. That was an unexpected accident - the reason they did it there was because they were still close to Earth, and they weren't expecting the fold system to take everything around the ship with it. Saying they should've known better is like saying we should've known that there were no chemical or biological weapons in Iraq, or that the United States should've joined the war against the Axis powers in 1939 because if they didn't, the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor some years later - the product of hindsight.

As for the Zentradi interest in Earth - Vrlitwhai's fleet had no interest in it. However, there are millions of rogue Zentradi fleets out there. Not all of them were under Bodole's command, or even his influence... which meant that anyone of them could've stumbled across Earth, and done something to it. Ditto the Supervision Armies, especially if they'd detected any trace of Protoculture influence on the planet (which existed before the Macross landed).

The facts we see on screen do NOT support your argument. You've made up half of it, just so you can look superior to the rest of the posters, even after admitting you've not seen most of the series. The facts are as follows:

1) The Supervision Army fleets are everywhere, and they're hostile to any Protoculture-related species, artifacts, and remnants.

2) Earth in the past has been visited by the Protoculture, and the miclones were an end-product of some past intervention by the Protoculture in order to prepare Earth for colonization.

3) The ASS-1 landed on Earth, and there were conflicts between the UN Spacy and anti-UN Spacy forces. According to Macross Zero, the wars were more on the scale of the Balkan conflicts rather than World War III, with the use of reaction weaponry being confined mostly to space.

4) Earth's population is mostly wiped out. Survivors are mostly from the Macross and space habitats. Macross' civilians were basically exiled from Earth, and know this - at first, they feel put upon by a rather ungrateful Earth, only to find that they're the ones who escaped mass destruction as a result of their being banned from disembarking.

5) Earth's continuing survival is still in question, due to rogue Zentradi fleets, two of which visit Earth during the period following the elimination of Boddole Zer's fleet. This doesn't count other encounters that the micloned-allied Zent have with other rogue Zentradi forces, which are wandering the galaxy still. Between them and the Supervision Army (and other threats like the Protodevlin, which were undiscovered until Macross 7's fleet encountered them), there are a lot of threats to human survival. Isolation is not an option.

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Drawn to earth because of Macross.
This group, yes. Other groups could've stumbled on Earth, or the Bird-man may have brought back other Protoculture artifacts or related peoples after the fact. If things had gone without the Macross' influence, Earth may have been wiped out anyways, given the fact that the galaxy is rather hostile... and thus, the reason for all the Macross fleets to exist in the first place; to spread out humans out across the galaxy, so no single fleet or disaster can wipe out the human race.

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The sheer arrogance. "There was nothing before us!" It's like all that's left of humanity is the baby-boomer generation.
Arrogance, yes. However, given what DID happen and what could've happened, plus the data that Exedol Formo supplied, do you think humanity would've been better off in its ignorance? Sooner or later, SOMEONE would've stumbled across Earth - between the fact we are/were radiating radio waves like there was no tomorrow and other extraterrestrial influences and artifacts (Bird-Man included), combined with the expansionist Supervision Army spreading out across the galaxy in a cosmos-wide war with the millions of Zentradi fleets, Earth would not have necessarily remained untouched had it NOT seen the ASS-1 land. All it would've been would be vulnerable to the first conquering force.

And as I said earlier, there's a heavy element of propaganda involved. They have to keep that up, especially in the wake of several anti-UN Spacy rebellions after Earth began settling the rest of the galaxy. With the proper type of propaganda, you can keep a lot of things going... including making sure everyone who's still alive feels grateful to the original Macross' crew and mission for ensuring there was a future for humanity in the first place, which is why all these people have been loaded onto colony ships to settle other worlds in turn.

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And they chose San Fransico because it was pretty, and an appropiate place to enclose around a million or so fruits and nuts on a intergalactic journey of sticking it in your eye.
San Francisco was rebuilt in tribute to the original, and because Kawamori and the Studio Nue team enjoyed the scenery, IIRC. The same way Chinatowns sometimes incorporate old architecture and tributes to historic landmarks in the towns and cities where people who moved to these new places came from, as a testament to what was left behind. Not all fleets are like this; notice that Sheryl says that the Galaxy fleet's ships are much more... industrial in nature, while Frontier's (launched from Eden, one of Earth's more successful colonies) is more aesthetically pleasing, as befits a fleet launched from what was more a paradise world than Earth was and is now.

Maybe Gundam SEED Destiny's more to your speed? It's a lot simpler to grasp, story-wise... or G-Gundam? Very simple there, and each Gundam doesn't have the problem of past history to clutter up the storyline, the way it does here.

Last edited by Haesslich; 2008-06-14 at 00:52.
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Old 2008-06-14, 01:25   Link #88
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He's just trolling, Haess. He's just about admitted as such, previously, so there's no real point in listening him, especially when he doesn't know half of what he's talking about, having never finished the series.

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Old 2008-06-14, 02:00   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
It blew a cliff wall out, vaporizing it without sending debris all over the city - you can see in shots after the fact that the city itself, underneath, was completely intact. The blast was channeled narrowly through the cliff wall, over the sea, then out into space - where it split into two. VERY fine control of the beam, that last bit... certainly finely enough to have kept anyone from getting hurt, if you'll look at later scenes. There were ONLY thousands of people living on South Ataria Island, so saying that 'thousands died' there is like saying that millions died in the San Francisco Earthquake of the early 1900's... aka fearmongering and hyperbole.
Tens of thousands lived there, so there were thousands to spare, so it's not hyperbolic. And certainly parts of the city were flooded, which would bring it's own deathtoll. Probably not "thousands" though. I don't know, I've two different frames and one of them seems to imply the city as gone and flooded, but another shows it completely untouched.

Sense says the city would have been wiped out if the cliff had been with large amounts of sea water also being vaporized. I see no reason why an alien defense system would give a crap about the meatbags and their residences if they're in the way of it's targets.

Quote:
As for the Fold system, you'll notice in later episodes that a fold doesn't take a damned island with it. That was an unexpected accident - the reason they did it there was because they were still close to Earth, and they weren't expecting the fold system to take everything around the ship with it. Saying they should've known better is like saying we should've known that there were no chemical or biological weapons in Iraq, or that the United States should've joined the war against the Axis powers in 1939 because if they didn't, the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor some years later - the product of hindsight.
I appreciate that in hindsight it was obviously a bad idea. However, looking at it from Global's perspective, his tactics make no sense since the enemy uses spaceships that can cover the distance between the Earth and the moon in a matter of minutes. What good was entering Earth's atmosphere really supposed to do?

Add the fact he's meddling with demonstratably powerful, but alien technology that had already proven unpredictable twice in the same day, the risks should have been obvious, even if the consenquences weren't as such. Hell, worst case scenario he end's up rendering Earth unhabitable because Macross sponateously explodes. The fact that could have happened should have been all that was needed for him to keep the thing as far as from Earth as possible.

He's either stupid or believes Earth's expendable.

Quote:
As for the Zentradi interest in Earth - Vrlitwhai's fleet had no interest in it. However, there are millions of rogue Zentradi fleets out there. Not all of them were under Bodole's command, or even his influence... which meant that anyone of them could've stumbled across Earth, and done something to it. Ditto the Supervision Armies, especially if they'd detected any trace of Protoculture influence on the planet (which existed before the Macross landed).
Still doesn't change the fact that Macross was a disaster for humanity, and the survivors spit on the graves of everyone that wasn't them.

Quote:
Maybe Gundam SEED Destiny's more to your speed? It's a lot simpler to grasp, story-wise... or G-Gundam? Very simple there, and each Gundam doesn't have the problem of past history to clutter up the storyline, the way it does here.
Where have I indicated that I'm having a hard time "grasping" anything?

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He's just trolling, Haess. He's just about admitted as such, previously, so there's no real point in listening him, especially when he doesn't know half of what he's talking about, having never finished the series.

Small dogs bark the loudest.
What he should really appreciate is the fact I haven't seen the entire series yet and just leave it at that for the time being (doubtless I'll have an opinion about future events ). I just know the ending and have noticed the bizarre reverence the future series have for the original, when Macross's maiden flight really got a bunch of people killed even if some good () came out of it (you don't see people lauding the Titanic and naming everything after it do you, even with the fact the disaster did alot to enhance maritime safety regulations, such as there absolutely must be enough lifeboats for everyone on board a ship?).
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Old 2008-06-14, 02:40   Link #90
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Point on the Titanic. However, unlike the Titanic, the Macross did play a strong role in saving the world.

And I'd like to see your evidence for the survivors spitting on the graves of everyone who wasn't them - and let's not forget that the Macross refugees had gotten shafted by the UN Spacy govt first.

Regarding Gloval and the Macross, it was mentioned that he was wanting to get back to earth to get reinforcements, restock ammo, and offload the refugees. With offloading the refugees, he then can focus on warfighting solely, and not have to worry about the safety of the civillians on top of military issues. Any ship commander today would do the same thing: offload the civillians ASAP to be able to get back into the fight and not have to worry about them.

Still... your attitude reminds me of a sentence I've heard before: "I've made up my mind, don't try and confuse me with facts!" Though I will admit that "facts" is a rather lacking term when dealing with anime.
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Old 2008-06-14, 04:03   Link #91
Wesley84
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Point on the Titanic. However, unlike the Titanic, the Macross did play a strong role in saving the world.
We'll see.

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And I'd like to see your evidence for the survivors spitting on the graves of everyone who wasn't them - and let's not forget that the Macross refugees had gotten shafted by the UN Spacy govt first.
I don't know the context of the shafting, but this is the world government (world governments are jerks) that made war on everyone that didn't go along with them so who knows? As for evidence, bequeathing legendary status on the original Macross is more than enough if ask me. Take the small good with the monumentally bad, but they obviously don't since Idols and Pilots are in constant fashion.

Quote:
Regarding Gloval and the Macross, it was mentioned that he was wanting to get back to earth to get reinforcements, restock ammo, and offload the refugees. With offloading the refugees, he then can focus on warfighting solely, and not have to worry about the safety of the civillians on top of military issues. Any ship commander today would do the same thing: offload the civillians ASAP to be able to get back into the fight and not have to worry about them.
I'm not really faulting them for wanting to get back to Earth here. In fact, I'd say Macross is making the most out of a bad situation and acting accordingly given what they know. At the moment survival is key, and any long term strategies or possibly diplomacy will have to wait since they still don't know anything about their enemy and they are apparently not responding to hails.

Though I still don't see how using the Fold System like they did makes sense.

Quote:
Still... your attitude reminds me of a sentence I've heard before: "I've made up my mind, don't try and confuse me with facts!" Though I will admit that "facts" is a rather lacking term when dealing with anime.
Sorta. I'm just kind of ignorant and waiting for developements. At the moment, the Original Series is shaping up to be well done, with the use of the Fold System and Misa being a dink on Mars being the only things that have raised a few eyebrows with me (I've made peace with Minmei at the moment. There's a few explanations for the way she is and how she treats Hikaru without her being a terrible, crazy person. Namely that she's "proper" and has alot of faith.)
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Old 2008-06-14, 05:57   Link #92
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Haven't you heard, if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em!

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i thought thats originaly from Chief Wiggins in the simpsons...
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Old 2008-06-14, 06:38   Link #93
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Just to put a correction few if none of the civvies died when Macross folded.

It's those poor souls on the Prometheus and Daedalus that died there.

The Supervision Army's mecha aesthetic wise resemble the Protodevlin Varutan forces only that they are giants and don't use VF's. (Exsedol found the Varutan Supervision Army familliar because of the paint scheme not that they their mecha resemble the VF-14 Vampire)

Thing is after the holocaust people are are starting to disbelive the them and us mentality.

Genetically speaking Zentradi are humans. We just reintroduced them to instincts that was denied to them.

Why do suppose they were so enamored by civilian life?

There has got to be a better way to live than expect a short lifespan by a beam shot.

Thus humans and Zentradi embraced each other. The marriage certificate has been sealed.

In fact humans and Zentradi are not the only beneficiaries.

The Zolans, another miclone race, would have been much ignorant as well of the dangers out there.

Planetary side uncultured Zentradi like Vividas would not have learned of drumming instead of constant duels to the death.
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Old 2008-06-14, 08:49   Link #94
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I appreciate that in hindsight it was obviously a bad idea. However, looking at it from Global's perspective, his tactics make no sense since the enemy uses spaceships that can cover the distance between the Earth and the moon in a matter of minutes. What good was entering Earth's atmosphere really supposed to do?

Add the fact he's meddling with demonstratably powerful, but alien technology that had already proven unpredictable twice in the same day, the risks should have been obvious, even if the consenquences weren't as such. Hell, worst case scenario he end's up rendering Earth unhabitable because Macross sponateously explodes. The fact that could have happened should have been all that was needed for him to keep the thing as far as from Earth as possible.

He's either stupid or believes Earth's expendable. .
It's more like he's boxed in by a hostile alien fleet of unknown numbers with the 'higher' ground.

Spoiler:


Now 25 years later a lone fleet admiral in a nearly broken ship does nearly the same thing as Bruno J. Global and people call it the height of awesome [BSG rocks ]. Here it's a near fatal and spectacular SNAFU.

You do know that the Prometheus and Daedalus are not normal carriers. The SCV designation of them means submersible carrier vehical. Which means that if any of their crew had the mind to batten down the hatches in space they'de probably survive. Considering that it didn't take too much work to attach the carriers, it appears likely that the surviving crew had managed to carry out that duty in the emergency.

Did people die in that engagement? Of course they did, and that was just the start. The trigger for that whole drama was the execution of a program both sides had no part of. Just choose what you ant to concentrate on in this show- the escalation of hostilities or the effort and sacrifice made to stop it. Both are I find worth the study and enjoyment even today.
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Old 2008-06-14, 09:24   Link #95
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Where have I indicated that I'm having a hard time "grasping" anything?
Every time you post perhaps?
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:57   Link #96
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I don't know the context of the shafting, but this is the world government (world governments are jerks) that made war on everyone that didn't go along with them so who knows? As for evidence, bequeathing legendary status on the original Macross is more than enough if ask me. Take the small good with the monumentally bad, but they obviously don't since Idols and Pilots are in constant fashion.
Actually as I recall, the way Macross Zero tells it is that the Anti-UN broke away first and fired the first shots, not the UN government.

As for legendary status, I would like to refer you to the United States Marine Corps and the legendary status the Corps has conferred on the Battle of Iwo Jima. Heavy casualties taken, and yet the Corps considers Iwo to be it's Crowning Moment of Awesome. Just because people uphold something as legendary doesn't mean that they spit on the graves of everyone else, Wesley.

And pilots and idols will never go out of style. Both have been around and will continue to be around for a long, long time.

Quote:
I'm not really faulting them for wanting to get back to Earth here. In fact, I'd say Macross is making the most out of a bad situation and acting accordingly given what they know. At the moment survival is key, and any long term strategies or possibly diplomacy will have to wait since they still don't know anything about their enemy and they are apparently not responding to hails.

Though I still don't see how using the Fold System like they did makes sense.
As has been mentioned, the Fold System was used because it was the only option left.

Quote:
Sorta. I'm just kind of ignorant and waiting for developements. At the moment, the Original Series is shaping up to be well done, with the use of the Fold System and Misa being a dink on Mars being the only things that have raised a few eyebrows with me (I've made peace with Minmei at the moment. There's a few explanations for the way she is and how she treats Hikaru without her being a terrible, crazy person. Namely that she's "proper" and has alot of faith.)
*sighs*

Again, the Fold System was used because Gloval ran out of options. Primary propulsion was off floating away merrily on itself, secondaries wouldn't have been able to move the SDF-1 away fast enough, and so the only option he had was the Fold System - and nobody expected it to drag along Macross City, the island, Promethus or Daedalus with it.

I agree that both ships should have been able to theoretically survive the fold and the vacuum, had they rigged for submarine ops, but given the way things were going... IMO it's doubtful that the crews actually locked down all the hatches in time and got ready to go underwater. In fact in Promethus's case she'd actually be better off above water if she had to run, since her shape is less suited for charging through water compared with Daedalus - plus she can't launch fighters underwater. She may have remained on the surface, her captain having the idea of getting his Air Wing airborne, and simply be a victim of bad luck.

Also, just checking, where was it stated again that the crews of Promethus and Daedalus bought it?

As for Misa being a "dink on Mars", as you put it, well, I guess you haven't been in her position then. Love makes people stupid. All that emotions that Misa stored up and locked away spilled out and resulted in her obsessive need to find Karl on Mars.

And thank you for being honest enough to admit to being ignorant.

BTW, if you want to head over the Nanoha and troll "lolz it's only Magic!", feel free to do so. Kha will embrace you whole-heartedly and recruit you into his Holy Imperium crusade to rid Outer Cadia of realism and tactical thinking for khrack.
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:07   Link #97
ReddyRedWolf
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The same ep where they found out they brought the entire island.

While it was a relief that the civilians survived in the shelters the crews of those ships were not so lucky.

Those were navy ships not spaceships afterall.
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:25   Link #98
Wild Goose
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Theoretically had both the Daedalus and Promethus sealed for underwater ops, they would have survived, since you need to maintain an airtight seal in a submarine.
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:36   Link #99
ReddyRedWolf
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Theoretically yes but they didn't expect Global to do that and a lot of boys died there.
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Old 2008-06-14, 13:19   Link #100
glyph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Theoretically yes but they didn't expect Global to do that and a lot of boys died there.
Which was why they had far more salvaged Valkyries than they had qualified pilots available to fill them, necessitating the mass recruitment drive from the civilian population later. I feel sorry for those poor bastards of the original Skull Squadron which was based off the Prometheus, whom Focker ordered back to the carrier after their sortie while he was called to fly escort for the Macross takeoff. I wonder if Edgar bit it there?
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