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Old 2008-05-27, 21:41   Link #1
kitto-chan
很快是工程師
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ゴミ箱の存在の他の平野
Unexplainable, Paranormal, Ghost

Over Memorial Day, I was visiting my parents and happen to be watching Ghost Hunter on Discovery. My dad commented that "it bad luck to disturb the ghosts slumber." I rebuttal by saying "there is no such things as ghosts, it all make believe". Then my dad starting going on describing how they were real and that as a child back in VN actually saw one that made him froze. My aunt was over as well and caught wind of our discussion and sided with my dad, saying that she as a child was visited by a ghost. I finally gave in after 45 minutes of banter without getting my point across. It seems all the adult in my family that came from VN believes in spirits and the paranormal. I called my sister in Taiwan and she tells me as a child she also felt something was watching her, she never saw a ghost, but knew as a child that something was there.

I got a bit curious and called my youngest uncle who basically grew up in the US and asked him. He told me he does believe that there is spirits holy and malicious. It part of Eastern culture. I asked him if he ever felt a spirit or seem and he said he never notice if there was or not.

I been thinking about this all morning and I started digging online.

Christianity has spirits that give raise to prophets like Moses, and tells of a dark spirit name Satan.

Quote:
"Emanuel Swedenborg, the famous seer of the eighteenth century, was well acquainted with the spirit world, having experienced detailed visions recorded later in book form. Nevertheless, he cautioned those courting the spirits: "When spirits begin to speak with a man, he ought to beware that he believes nothing whatever from them; for they say almost anything. Things are fabricated by them, and they lie... they would tell so many lies and indeed with solemn affirmation that a man would be astonished...if a man listens and believes they press on, and deceive, and seduce." (Samuel M. Warren, A Compendium of the Theological Writings of Emmanuel Swedenborg (New York: Swedenborg Foundation, 1977, p. 618. As quoted in Douglas Groothuis, Revealing the New Age Jesus, p. 210.)
In my culture (Buddhism), that I don't practice, their is the believe that our deceased ancestor return to visit us each year, which is why we prepare a feast, for their return.

In Judaism, communication with the dead is unacceptable. God has provided us a prophet.

I could list out more, but it seems to me every culture has a ghost story behind it. Some culture embrace their ghost/spirit, some fear it and shun even the slightest hint of ghost. All culture/religion has the same characteristic. All ghost/spirits are the decease ancestor or of a person that has passed. All visiting ghosts/spirits linger or return because of unfinished business. All ghost/spirits can either make improve in one's life or bring ruin down upon the visited. I think you may see my point.

I misnamed the title of this thread and I apologize, I feel i should not limited this to just the discussion of spirits. It was along this line that i began to think what about unexplainable things as well. As a child I remember being scared of the dark when I was alone because, I could hear the creaking of the floor. When I think about it now I still wonder, old house creaks right? What causes them to creak if you are not moving?

There are other things i thought about as well such as deja vu. There has been times when I swear that I know everything that was going to happen at that moment, It nothing major that would change my life, but it the feeling that I experienced this before and i know in the back of my mind the outcome. My opinion and you may laugh. We can agree that there may be more than one dimension and it may be possible that other diminsional beings are doing or attempting communication with us. and we are transported at least consciously into a time stream. Or it might be other factors. Such as high voltage lines creating a mini-time pocket which transport us back into the past. Or maybe send us into the future. Who knows, and who can argue, it not impossible, just improbable at our current state.


Do you believe in the supernatural? Could you explain why you do or do not believe and I prefer if you would support your reasoning. I like an intelligent discussion of these events.

As for me, I don't believe in spirits/ghosts. I'm a logical person, I need fact and proof to back and support ghosts. I have never seen one, there has been no proof of a ghost, merely unexplainable events, that may have been fabricated for attention such as the Lockness Monster, or bigfoot. There are unexpalinable event that we just don't have the tools or knowledge to comprehend as we currently are. There are no such things as paranormal, merely things we have no answers for. In the past when people didn't understand something they called it sorcery, we just call it supernatural.
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Old 2008-05-27, 23:28   Link #2
SeedFreedom
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Well, I don't believe in ghost, yet. I am always up to the idea that with knowledge and time, anything we take as accepted truth can change. But as of now, there is no proof ghost exist.

Notice how both incidents occurred when they were young? That is because they knew less and had bigger imaginations. Simple shadows and noises can fool a kid into thinking things that aren't real, and they dont have the scientific knowledge to think otherwise. Over time they forget details and only know "it was a ghost". When i was a kid i saw the creepiest shadow in my closet, which turned out to be my winter jacket. I guess i was pretty adventurous, even if i was scared.
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Old 2008-05-28, 00:07   Link #3
Goshin
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\s a kid i was always taught to fear all things paranormal. a lot of times now i was pass a lot of the stories my family told me as sill ghost stories. but they all assured that is was real. not that ghost actually existed. but demons(fallen angels) did. and it was them who aided the humans, take different forms, and cause paranomal phenomenons. they told me that the demons were evil and untrostworthy just like the seer guy said. that is why my family's religion believed the practiced of spiritism to be a sin. as it does not orignate with got but with the wicked one (the devil i guess) but they assured me that there were good angels that still protect us with really making their presence known. we can't see them ore here them as their are spirits in a different plane of existence but they are there nonetheless
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Old 2008-05-28, 00:45   Link #4
nines
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Rule #1 Religon has all its different takes on after life and frankly i think most of its just completly retarded. Thats all on that.

I Believe in ghost because when i was around 6 or 7 2 weeks after my Aunt Emma died i woke up around like 1:00 - 2:20? to go to the bathroom (had a small blader) then went into the kitchen to get my cat to go to sleep with me. I got my cat and got a weird feeling i was being watched and i saw a pitch white figure just standing in the hallway staring at me and it had like a hood covering the eyes but the rest looked like her Length, Height, etc. And well as a kid I was ignorant and like completly freaked out and dropped Scotty (My Cat) and ran into my room screaming like a lil girl and hid under my covers and well woke my Mom and said you probably just miss her alot that your imagining things. So I listened to her and blew it out of my mind then I asked my dad if he believed in ghost he said yea after his dad died when he was 7 he also went into the kitchen and saw his dad just standing their 2 weeks after he was buried (not died like i said). He told his brother Armondo and he said he saw him also a week after he was buried but didnt want to sound like a girl and didn't tell any one about it. So he told me that and i started to believe in ghost even more and freaked out even more. My mom now believes in ghost alot because we got like 3 to 4 ghost cats who we burried in are backyard who come onto the bed and lay down (we usually look down cause we feel pressure like laying on our legs and nothings there). Plus i also see the cats from my perefriel vision which in like taps and stuff they say you mostly see ghost and etc from your perefriel vision (i know typo forgot how to spell it) and when you go to look staright at it, it disappears some people just say like what your saying ah just like an illusion or my mind playing tricks on me. My house also has like 2 ghost that showed up for like 2 months then left havnt heard from them yet.

1. of the ghost when my dad comes home from the fire station he sits in his front chair watching T.V and stuff then he heard a little girl say "Hello" and he said whos their and she just said "Do you want to play Robert?" and he was curious if it was my sister and went in there to find her dead asleep and kinda got a weird feeling. He went to work when he came back 2 days later he heard it again same words and just stoped dead on this lasted for like about 2-3 weeks.

2. This was around a year ago. My sister i dont really believe her as much but still feel worth mentoning. She said she had a ghost guy that stood outside her door just kept doing deep sighs and like going to turn the handle on the door and just like shaking it (i did this a couple times to freak her out when she kept mentoning it) Then when i started to go up into her room in the front living room i heard a really long sigh that sounded like a man did it and i jumped and went into her room and told her and she was all like SEE I TOLD YOU. So she said why don't you spend the night in my room and i did nothing happened then next day it started happing even more so she tryed listing to like A Haunting people and burnt sage it just like "Pissed it off even more" and seemed like it got stronger or what ever and was like actually able to move stuff in her room and fully open the door. So she left it alone and just like tried to sleep threw it and 4 weeks after she started ignoring it one last thing happened when she was asleep it pulled the covers over her and she looked up and nothing was there thats the end of it.

3. More of what my expereiences are like when i was a kid and really at the moment right now. When i was like 10 playing with my transformers with my sister one of the scorpion ones like came over and pinched me on the ass with its claw when it was like on the other side of the room. 2 days after that i think 1 or 2 my mom heard noices in my room when i was asleep and all my toy cars where all layed out on the floor and moving and when she turned the light on they just dead stopped. Then when i hit 12 years old on the way driving to middle school i layed down cause i was still tired and kept seeing a skull with an arrow threw it on the top of the car and when my mom looked she couldn't see it but i still could that kept going on for like 1 or so years just stopped randomly.

4. Now presentish 2 years ago i woke up in the middle of the night looked over by my T.V in the area betweeen my desk and T.V cabnet thing i saw a pitch white figure that didnt look like my aunt just staring at me so i went under my sheets and went back to sleep and havn't seen it sense. Now currently the damn fuckin cats keep going on my desk and stepping on my key board and clicking my mouse at night cause i was up and see the light that turns on when you move your mouse turning on and off.

Well thats pretty much all of my experiences id tell you my aunts shit but you probably wouldn't believe me it sounds a bit to fake
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Old 2008-05-28, 02:20   Link #5
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The paranormal etc. do freak me out but I have been very curious about it ever since I was a little girl, I know a lot of these things and read a lot about it heck even summoned spirits for fun untill it started haunting me lol

Our house has a big tree right in front of it that stands near the road, when my friends come and stay over they always comment about seeing people go past my window and never get passed the tree in the middle, i see it sometimes to but never pay attention to it.. as long as they dont bother me around the house i find those things okay
other than that, things get moved around a lot in this house, once i was printing out my report for school and i went to the bathroom during the printing when i came back it was all lying on the stairs one floor down while i was the only person in the house at the time
as i child i occasionally had people watching me when i was in bed fromt he doorway, since my parents always left the door open a little, eventually i just shut the door when going to bed and that was the end of it
i used to summon spirits as a child just to talk to them and because i was curious, i stopped when i was around 15 because i started having nightmares in which i was on fire and was burnign to death, woke up screaming with my hands waving in the air because it felt so weird, it didnt hurt but it was tingling like your leg was asleep, ever since that incident i stopped summoning them
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Old 2008-05-28, 08:33   Link #6
yezhanquan
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The region around my home (Southeast Asia) is full of such stuff. It's almost become a way of life in some areas. So yes, I think "they" exist.
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Old 2008-05-28, 09:46   Link #7
KasumiGirl
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Interesting topic. ^-^

Ahem, anyways, I find it hard to believe for a minute, but I can't say I fully don't believe the in supernatural. I've had experiences which undoubtedly freaked me out, but going back there is a pretty logical explanation...to some.
When I was I think, 13 or 14, I used to go in my brother's room and watch TV with him. And i'd usually fall asleep, so I'd bring my mattress and stuff inside the room because I had no electronics in my room whatsoever. Then one night, I couldn't sleep, so I was just talking to him about stuff, random stuff. I then told him an experience my friend had with ghosts, and we started talking in-depth about ghosts and such. My other brother then came in, and he slept with us to. Camping in one room, much? XD Anyways, my other brother was like "Tracey, do you believe in ghosts?" I laughed and surely said no. My brother was like you shouldn't have said that, and I kept telling him there is no such freaking thing as ghosts. I started to hear cracks, you know, like from your house? Many of them repeatedly. I hid under my blankets, and then it stopped. I peeped out my head and looked at the ceiling. It was supposed to be pure darkness, but a light in the form of a knife/gun (which ever why you look at it) I was like OMG. I looked everywhere to see where the light source came from, but everything else was dark. My brother started swearing and turned on the light. I tried not to look scared, and in my head I was thinking there is such thing as ghosts repeatedly. When he offed the light, the light was gone. For about a whole month after that I searched my brother's room to see what that light really came from. Honestly I never found out.

I also used to have a feeling that i'm being watched by someone. It's always when I leave the door almost shut, but not quite.

But yeah, thats one of the experiance i remember clearly. But whether the supernatural does exist, I really can't be certain.
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Old 2008-05-28, 10:04   Link #8
Irenicus
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It's always a dilemma whether that strange thing you saw, heard, or had sex with (lol) was a real paranormal phenomenon or it's your brain playing with you again. The power of perception is everything you know; it's not like we actually *know* the world around us as much as we sense limited parts of it by ourselves. And that sensing part is a big part of the equation: psychology is an iffy topic in that nobody knows everything for sure and there's always mysteries to be found. The influence of superstitions in forging perceptions, if they actually are superstitions and not something more (), may be surprisingly powerful.

If something went wrong with the lens, you might see things you never thought you'd see. Then again, the lens could have been perfectly fine...

You perceive me; I perceive you -- or at least we think so. You perceive, or think you perceive, the evil monkey who's been in your closet since you're young. Do I exist? Do you exist? Does the evil monkey in my closet exist? Existential crises, here we come.
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Old 2008-05-28, 10:30   Link #9
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitto-chan
As for me, I don't believe in spirits/ghosts. I'm a logical person, I need fact and proof to back and support ghosts. I have never seen one, there has been no proof of a ghost, merely unexplainable events, that may have been fabricated for attention such as the Lockness Monster, or bigfoot.
Not believing in something is easy - you can't prove a negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitto-chan
There are unexpalinable event that we just don't have the tools or knowledge to comprehend as we currently are. There are no such things as paranormal, merely things we have no answers for. In the past when people didn't understand something they called it sorcery, we just call it supernatural.
That's part of the problem isn't it? What are we really looking for? When hairs rise at the back of your neck, when you sense another presence in the room, when the temperature drops suddenly for no apparent reason - what are we sensing? Or are these sensory experiences no more than mere figments of our overactive imaginations?

I find it funny how people immediately brush off all claims of the paranormal by appealing to scientific reason, when in fact, very few scientists have ever performed serious experiments to test the conditions under which people claim to see ghosts or poltergeist activity.

I find it even more amusing when people who claim not to believe in ghosts suddenly turn demure when asked to spend a night alone in a "haunted" house.

As for me, the closest I've ever come to "seeing ghosts" was when I suddenly felt a very strong presence in my room late one night. Strong enough to rouse me from sleep. Something was watching me, but I sensed no fear because it felt like someone very familiar. I groggily wished it "goodnight" and went back to bed. The presence lingered for a while longer before it eventually evaporated away.

Probably a lucid dream? Perhaps. I'd like to think though, that it was my late father, because it felt very much like him. I know, because it was the same experience I got whenever he checked on me, the first thing he always used to do when he came home from work.

(Once you've seen death at first hand, the way you see the living is forever changed.)

So, my position on ghosts and paranormal activity is similar to my position on anything divine - I don't know. And I will never volunteer to prove they don't. As far as ghosts are concerned, I'm happy to stay in the dark.
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Old 2008-05-28, 12:41   Link #10
kayos
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When I was young (around 15), my dog passed away. That night I was awoken by an extremely bright light which sat on my table, noted the only light source in my room was on the ceiling center and it would have been dimmed orange not bright white.

While squinting to see (didn't have my glasses on), it had the shape of a bird. Till this day I doubt that it was my imagination. It's not every night that I'm awaken by a unknown light source that takes shape especially after the death of a beloved furry family member.

So yes I do believe in the supernatural. There were other incidents of paranormal but let's save that for another day or so...
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Old 2008-05-29, 11:31   Link #11
kitto-chan
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@TRL its not that I immediately brush off claims of supernatural event or phenomenons. I understand the scenerio you describe such as being dare to spend a night in a haunted house, or why the hair on the back of ones neck stick straight out for no reason.

I should have better phrase my reasoning as "I don't want to believe in the supernatural". A part of the reason why I don't what to believe in ghosts and I always attempt logical is probably because I fear them. I can't explain this fear but I just don't honestly believe that with so many claims of witness ghost/spirits from so many people that there, has never been any proof to back up those claims. My belief is that ghosts were made up to respect those that have passed on or to instill anger and fear of a certain person or entity.
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Old 2008-05-29, 11:36   Link #12
kitto-chan
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double posted
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Old 2008-05-29, 14:09   Link #13
Terrestrial Dream
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I had this one ghost type of experience, I was walking from my room to the living room and between the room there was a bathroom. As I was passing through the bathroom I saw something like a women wearing white or something along that line. I convinced by myself that I must have looked at it wrong but the strange thing is that if I think back there was nothing white in the bathroom, but I still think that it must have been my mistake.
To be honest I want to believe in super natural, but it's kinda hard to when I have little experience of it.
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Old 2008-05-29, 15:21   Link #14
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
To be honest I want to believe in super natural, but it's kinda hard to when I have little experience of it.
This basically summarizes everything. As long as you, at least subconsciously, want to believe in it, chances are that your brain will help you misunderstand something and take it for granted. We're also so bombarded by bad horror films and things like that that clichés like the lady in white are probably an even easier image for the brain to fall back to when it tries to explain something it didn't understand.

(Speaking as myself): There's no such thing as an afterlife. We die and we're off. Goodbye. Sayonara. Adios. It's natural to wish for something of the sort to exist, and that sort of thing is what started the afterlife traditions in several different cultures ages ago. What you simply see are variations of the same theme in different traditions and with different takes on it. And given human psychology, I don't see it as something strange at all.
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Old 2008-06-15, 14:24   Link #15
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I stumbled upon this British documentary made in 2005 and I thought it would be brilliant to share on this thread.

Ghosts of the Underground

The producers interviewed a number of London Underground workers — doughty, dependable men, one of whom is a self-declared sceptic — who have all, at one time or another, experienced eerie feelings in the oldest mass transit railway in the world.

But that's not the only reason the documentary fascinated me. The producers also interviewed Mr Vic Tandy, a computer-assisted learning expert who works at the University of Coventry. Most interestingly, Mr Tandy believes that at least some of those "eerie feelings" experienced by the Underground workers could be explained by the presence of infrasound — very low frequency noises that human ears cannot hear.

Mr Tandy first made that discovery more than 10 years ago, and he co-published a paper on it in 1998, entitled The Ghost in the Machine. An excerpt of the paper was published in The Sunday Telegraph, and this is the closest copy I could find (look under infrasound). The same article was briefly discussed in another forum last year.

Now, those few of you who watched Ghost Hound last winter might recall the extensive use of white noise throughout the series. The above documentary immediately reminded me of that anime, and it made me wonder if Production I.G was alluding to this phenomenon of infrasound creating hallucinations and feelings of unease.

Ah well, whatever the case, it's certainly fun food for thought on a lazy Sunday evening. The story appeals to sceptics who are looking for rational explanations, while at the same time giving believers more room to play — because even Mr Tandy admits that infrasound alone cannot account for all spooky experiences.

Of course, one could hope for more scientists to treat such phenomena as subjects of serious study, like Mr Tandy. Then maybe we'd get closer to finding good explanations for the unexplainable.
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Old 2008-06-15, 19:07   Link #16
nanafan
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i don't think i believe in ghosts or spirits , but when i was younger i was scared of playing ouiji, at a friend's house i freaked out about it and said i didn't want to play. i can't say that i have had those moments like some of the people of this thread has shared, but i do remember watching a show on the discovery channel that was about ghosts in France, it was underground, but i don't remember the name for it. i also heard that battle sites like gettysburg has had it's share of ghosts.
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Old 2008-06-15, 21:24   Link #17
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanafan View Post
i also heard that battle sites like gettysburg has had it's share of ghosts.
As a side note, and I'm being cynical here: but I wonder if the people who "experienced ghosts" at Gettysburg and like places would also find the same if they don't know they're an ancient battlefields? Somehow I suspect those people won't get the same eeriness even if it's the same bloody field-of-murders that they walk on, as their minds simply didn't register that fact and made everything all the more scary for them...

Yeah.
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Old 2008-06-16, 01:31   Link #18
Eclipze
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Never had any personal encounters with any of them (ghost, spirits, whatnots), and probably won't have any in the future as well.

Penn and Teller had an episode that covered this.
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Old 2008-06-16, 07:00   Link #19
black monster
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i see a lot of ghost and souls from when i was 10 years old and until now i see them.
last night something strange happened to me.

last night while i was returning home i saw a man attacking two girl and tring to steel there money. the two girls asked me to help them. so i went to them but he ran away. so the two girls asked me to take them to there apartment. i went with them. and when we reached there apartment thay asked me to come in and drink some tea as a reward. when i reached the apartment door i became afraid to enter. that is when he came and put his hand on my shoulder and said don't be afraid you are not alone and he walked through me. i looked at my hand and i saw it through his hand. i don't know what happened the next thing i remember is that i was standing and thay were lying on the ground screaming from the pain.
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Old 2008-06-18, 20:20   Link #20
nanafan
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i don't know i have only heard about gettysburg, also old plantations have ghosts, but i can't say that i have experienced it. only saw stuff about it on tv, so it could have happened or not..
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