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Old 2008-06-18, 11:35   Link #21
lmd_84
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Originally Posted by withered_joy View Post
Dude, I love kid, but I have my doubts about him being able to use Brew. I mean... didn't Arachne say that Brew IS Eibon? (In a sense because it has everything Eibon packed inside) Even if he is a shinigami and all...he's still not strong enough to face the mosquito old fart alone. I don't know if that has anything to do with whether he's capable of controlling Brew but I'm just saying that he probably can't handle the power.

Furthermore, he is disgusted with the demon tools with his famous "mushizu ga hashiru wa!" which...makes it less likely for him to be willing to use such "evil" things. Soooo the question is what Shinigami has up his sleeve to let his kid bring that thing every witch wants.

Anyhow, I don't know if it's because he can't leave Shibusen or what, but why the heck does Shinigami need a kid in the first place? I hope Kid's origins can be explained, but I sort of doubt it would be T^T
(famous it might be, but could you translate please "mushizu ga hashiru wa" for me? I know what its getting at, in context, but I'd like to know what it means. )

In~teresting. I didn't consider that Brew needed to be controlled so much as set off like a bomb or the like, so Kid's abilities wouldn't have come into it.

Assuming you're correct, perhaps Shinigami doesn't intend Brew to be used; I'm thinking some sort of trade of weapons or information we're not privy to yet, much like Medusa's already done, but it would seem an awful long shot if Shibusen is already losing out to Arachnophobia's own arsenal.

I'm not going to argue that Kid could take out Mosquito on his own. If he could have, he would have done so before; the kids got mullered in their last encounter.

However, one point which interests me about Kid's background is that so far we've only really seen him fight using weapons. Other, different/shinigami-ish abilities have been limited to summoning his father in ep3, his skateboard, and outmanoeuvring Black Star in their second fight.

And yet, the point we're consistently reminded of is that Kid is, in the scheme of things, a god, a position which implies a greater and different power from that of his fellow students. What are we supposed to draw from this? That Kid hasn't yet shown us what he's capable of, or that his advantage is mainly down to sheer physical strength? I think that to an extent the former is still likely, if only because the one thing we've seen Shinigami do that Kid hasn't is effectively attack an enemy (Asura) without a Weapon.

That fight was down to power of a different kind than that provided by the Demon Weapons, and involved individual ability on a level we hadn't seen and haven't seen since between non-human characters.

If Kid's as much a Shinigami as we're told, I think - and I could be wrong - that it would stand to reason that he could possess the same abilities as his father....what ever his father might be, and how a personification of Death got a child (sorry, but this one will bug me until we're given an answer).

Last edited by lmd_84; 2008-06-18 at 12:06.
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Old 2008-06-18, 12:34   Link #22
Zoe
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Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
(famous it might be, but could you translate please "mushizu ga hashiru wa" for me? I know what its getting at, in context, but I'd like to know what it means. )
It's an idiom for "I'm disgusted."
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Old 2008-06-18, 15:33   Link #23
lmd_84
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It's an idiom for "I'm disgusted."
*nods* I see. Thanks, Zoe.
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Old 2008-06-18, 16:22   Link #24
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Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
One would have thought a name like 'Medusa' would have been ringing alarm bells for Shinigami, but apparently not.
The "Medusa" in SE probably isn't like the one in our mythology just like how Arachne isn't actually part of the Gorgon sisters in Greek mythology, in SE. Medusa is like more like an exotic name more than anything, they aren't claim she's a Witch based on that.

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Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
I'm not sure how he really stands on witches, even with the evidence that he doesn't mind having them captured/destroyed indiscriminately, considering a harmless child like Angela ended up on his list.
I don't think Witches are on his list though, only criminals like Mifune, Jack the Ripper, etc. B*S and Tsubaki weren't even after Anglea, and they were surpired when they found out she was the Witch and was so young.

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Maybe Arachne sacrificed the third Gorgon sister? Perhaps that's why we've not heard much about her. It could have given Medusa reason to sell out Arachne, out of revenge. Unless I'm forgetting we've been told the third sister is alive.
That's actually what think too.

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Which brings to mind just what Shinigami's willing to sacrifice to get rid of his enemies. He sent kids, for goodness sake, including his own son, shinigami or not. Yes, it's a plot device for the main groups, but I do wonder....
Medusa, had nearly hand picked everyone in the group, save for Ox, so he didn't have much of a choice. I think you also underestimating everyone in the group, those guys are the best of the One-Star Meisters (franky, they their more likely Two/Three-Star Meisters) and have fought against Arachne and Medusa's group on mutliple occasions and won for the most part. Maka herself managed to drive away "The Clown" who had similar Kishinlike wavelength to Asuna (though it was probably nowhere as strong). Nobody there is novice or, anything.
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Old 2008-06-18, 16:27   Link #25
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B*S and Tsubaki weren't even after Anglea,
They were definitely after Angela. That's why B*S wanted to do it because it was killing two birds with one stone.
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Old 2008-06-18, 16:36   Link #26
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I see, I remembered them being more concerned with Mifune and his "strong soul" more than anything else, with the Angela being a "bonus".
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Old 2008-06-18, 17:10   Link #27
lmd_84
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The "Medusa" in SE probably isn't like the one in our mythology just like how Arachne isn't actually part of the Gorgon sisters in Greek mythology, in SE. Medusa is like more like an exotic name more than anything, they aren't claim she's a Witch based on that.
I was thinking more of the fact that Medusa might have been known to Shinigami back when he was hunting down Arachne

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I don't think Witches are on his list though, only criminals like Mifune, Jack the Ripper, etc. B*S and Tsubaki weren't even after Anglea, and they were surpired when they found out she was the Witch and was so young.
Black Star took the Mifune & Angela job believing he could get the 99 plus 1 at once. We're told several times that witch souls are the prime ingredient in making a Death Scythe: they're not only on Shinigami's list, they're considered to be dangerous opponents, and Angela's youth and relatively harmlessness was never mentioned; she was a witch, therefore she was a Shibusen target.

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Medusa, had nearly hand picked everyone in the group, save for Ox, so he didn't have much of a choice. I think you also underestimating everyone in the group, those guys are the best of the One-Star Meisters (franky, they their more likely Two/Three-Star Meisters) and have fought against Arachne and Medusa's group on mutliple occasions and won for the most part. Maka herself managed to drive away "The Clown" who had similar Kishinlike wavelength to Asuna (though it was probably nowhere as strong). Nobody there is novice or, anything.
In Shinigami's case, I've remembered that he was forced into it, he had to agree to Medusa's demands or risk losing a major source of information into Arachnophobia. Even if it meant putting the kids into danger, it had to be done from his point of view.

Leaving aside the plot device aspect for a minute, having been a nurse, Medusa could easily have known the records of older students, even staff, and yet picked young and relatively inexperienced Techs. She's got people who can get the job done and, if the need arose, she could escape from.
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Old 2008-06-18, 18:27   Link #28
Iron Maw
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I was thinking more of the fact that Medusa might have been known to Shinigami back when he was hunting down Arachne.
When she met with the Shinigami neither show any signs of knowing each other, and the Manga has pointed out the Deathscythe handles the hiring/enrollemnt stuff. Medusa likely betrayed her to Mabaa (the Witch Queen) who worked with the Shinigami to get Arachne.

Quote:
Black Star took the Mifune & Angela job believing he could get the 99 plus 1 at once. We're told several times that witch souls are the prime ingredient in making a Death Scythe: they're not only on Shinigami's list, they're considered to be dangerous opponents, and Angela's youth and relatively harmlessness was never mentioned; she was a witch, therefore she was a Shibusen target.
Yeah, but I'm refering that without the "99 souls" a Weapon can't become a Deathscythe which why Mifune would be more important. As for Angela and Witches in general being on Shinigami's list, I don't know about that. Unlike with Humans the Shinigami seems consider all Witches to be dangerous unless proven otherwise like with Angela and Kim regardless if their on the list or, not. It doesn't seems like he knew Angela was a harmless child to begin with. Only that she was a witch like you said.

If Angela isn't a danger to anyone I think he would let her be.

Quote:
In Shinigami's case, I've remembered that he was forced into it, he had to agree to Medusa's demands or risk losing a major source of information into Arachnophobia. Even if it meant putting the kids into danger, it had to be done from his point of view.
My main point, that the Kids aren't strangers, to danger, hell the the whole incidcent with Asuna and the Shibusen vs. Arachnophobia battle were just as dangerous if not more and unlike this mission there was little to no back up.

Quote:
Leaving aside the plot device aspect for a minute, having been a nurse, Medusa could easily have known the records of older students, even staff, and yet picked young and relatively inexperienced Techs. She's got people who can get the job done and, if the need arose, she could escape from.
But why would she though? It would lower the success of her plan especially since she's going through the heart of enemy territory, and considering there going to be fighting, Medusa wants people who are very strong, but are also manipulated easily.
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Old 2008-06-18, 19:08   Link #29
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I think that the first few missions that group did were more tests then true missions. Maka was sent after Blair and told that if she didn't get a witches soul she would have to start over. Since she can't see souls she failed because she took a cats soul. BlackStar was is the only one told about an extremly strong soul and a witch that he is guarding. And Black Star leaves before Shinigami can say anything about Angela even though he keeps trying to. I don't think Shinigami thought BS could beat Mifune and it's pretty clear BlackStar wasn't in real danger from Mifune until he was a real threat.
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Old 2008-06-19, 10:04   Link #30
withered_joy
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Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
(famous it might be, but could you translate please "mushizu ga hashiru wa" for me? I know what its getting at, in context, but I'd like to know what it means. )

In~teresting. I didn't consider that Brew needed to be controlled so much as set off like a bomb or the like, so Kid's abilities wouldn't have come into it.

Assuming you're correct, perhaps Shinigami doesn't intend Brew to be used; I'm thinking some sort of trade of weapons or information we're not privy to yet, much like Medusa's already done, but it would seem an awful long shot if Shibusen is already losing out to Arachnophobia's own arsenal.

I'm not going to argue that Kid could take out Mosquito on his own. If he could have, he would have done so before; the kids got mullered in their last encounter.

However, one point which interests me about Kid's background is that so far we've only really seen him fight using weapons. Other, different/shinigami-ish abilities have been limited to summoning his father in ep3, his skateboard, and outmanoeuvring Black Star in their second fight.

And yet, the point we're consistently reminded of is that Kid is, in the scheme of things, a god, a position which implies a greater and different power from that of his fellow students. What are we supposed to draw from this? That Kid hasn't yet shown us what he's capable of, or that his advantage is mainly down to sheer physical strength? I think that to an extent the former is still likely, if only because the one thing we've seen Shinigami do that Kid hasn't is effectively attack an enemy (Asura) without a Weapon.

That fight was down to power of a different kind than that provided by the Demon Weapons, and involved individual ability on a level we hadn't seen and haven't seen since between non-human characters.

If Kid's as much a Shinigami as we're told, I think - and I could be wrong - that it would stand to reason that he could possess the same abilities as his father....what ever his father might be, and how a personification of Death got a child (sorry, but this one will bug me until we're given an answer).
Since someone already mentioned what "Mushizu ga hashiru" means, yeah. It's just an idiom, and in literal sense it means "my stomach acid is running". I think.

I always assumed that kid is holding back since he doesn't seem to fight seriously enough (serious = scary face he made when he fought with B*S Round 2) and is still too easily distracted with his OCD stuff (I am quite convinced that if he really became serious he wouldn't go OTZ over being unable to attack something with perfect symmetry). But he thought to beat Moustique-guy on his own is difficult himself so that's where I sort of grasp an idea about the scope of his abilities. I know moustique-dude is actually quite strong despite the unappealing appearance but yeah. I also assumed that one needs to be at least on his level if one wants to control Brew, but maybe Brew doesn't need to be controlled? Bah, I don't know.

Anyhow, something always irked me too about Kid. A witch's soul is worth a lot but how much is a GOD's soul worth? And does a god's soul seem tasty for those who are soul-hungry? LoL . Maybe Asura would want a god's soul in his stomach's collection haha.

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Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
Angela's youth and relatively harmlessness was never mentioned
Um... I do recall that B*S never gave Shinigami the chance to inform him about "the problem with Angela". But knowing B*S, I think he decided there wasn't a need to tell him the problem because he won't do something as "small" as taking the soul of a child, witch or not.
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Old 2008-06-19, 10:28   Link #31
lmd_84
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Anyhow, something always irked me too about Kid. A witch's soul is worth a lot but how much is a GOD's soul worth? And does a god's soul seem tasty for those who are soul-hungry? LoL . Maybe Asura would want a god's soul in his stomach's collection haha.
Okay, you and others are right about Shinigami actually trying to tell Black Star about Angela, I forgot that bit.

On Kid: Yeah, his soul would be worth a lot, though I don't think it would be one Shinigami would relish collecting if anyone was stupid enough to kill Kid. That'd be a great way to get judged by Death himself. On the topic, I'd quite like to see how Shinigami would react to Kid getting into serious trouble. There's a suggestion he does worry about his perfection-obsessed son, but we don't know much about their relationship (other than utmost respect and loyalty on Kid's part).

I think you have a point about the second fight with Black Star showing Kid fighting seriously. In both cases it was a step up from their first fight, Black Star because he'd improved, and Kid because he, for the first time, he seemed to see the 'ninja' as a threat. And even then, it didn't take much for him to bring Black Star down; very neat and tidy. If by 'neat and tidy' one means 'smashing poor boy's face into ground'. That was cringe-makingly nasty of Kid. He proved a point, but even so...
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Old 2008-06-19, 10:42   Link #32
withered_joy
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Okay, you and others are right about Shinigami actually trying to tell Black Star about Angela, I forgot that bit.

On Kid: Yeah, his soul would be worth a lot, though I don't think it would be one Shinigami would relish collecting if anyone was stupid enough to kill Kid. That'd be a great way to get judged by Death himself. On the topic, I'd quite like to see how Shinigami would react to Kid getting into serious trouble. There's a suggestion he does worry about his perfection-obsessed son, but we don't know much about their relationship (other than utmost respect and loyalty on Kid's part).

I think you have a point about the second fight with Black Star showing Kid fighting seriously. In both cases it was a step up from their first fight, Black Star because he'd improved, and Kid because he, for the first time, he seemed to see the 'ninja' as a threat. And even then, it didn't take much for him to bring Black Star down; very neat and tidy. If by 'neat and tidy' one means 'smashing poor boy's face into ground'. That was cringe-makingly nasty of Kid. He proved a point, but even so...
Hm. Not so much a threat as he was angry with B*S for being a real ass.
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:25   Link #33
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Im relooking at the manga and I really cant believe how close we are in the anime until the Christmas Eve showdown since this weeks epi is gonna be Kid v Chrona.
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:56   Link #34
Zoe
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Im relooking at the manga and I really cant believe how close we are in the anime until the Christmas Eve showdown since this weeks epi is gonna be Kid v Chrona.
It's not "Christmas Eve", BTW... that was a mistranslation. It actually happened on April 1st, IIRC.
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Old 2008-07-08, 17:43   Link #35
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It's not "Christmas Eve", BTW... that was a mistranslation. It actually happened on April 1st, IIRC.
Ah didnt know that, I was going by the chap name.
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Old 2011-02-19, 23:00   Link #36
ivydeath
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The Gorgon sisters all have Greek names. I'd imagine she'd be some other Greek monster/monstrous person.

PS: Medusa is a real Gorgon sister mythologically, and Arachne is a woman who was turned into a spider (the first spider, I believe) by a goddess jealous of her beauty. Or something like that.
ummmmm actually the Greek story goes like this arachne was said to be the weave master an bragd sayin she was better than the gods wen Athena the goddess heard this she disguised herself as an old woman an told her to take it bak but wen she didnt she transformed bak an had a contest arachne mocked her family in one of the weaves soo she cursed her were she will 4evr be a spider
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Old 2011-02-21, 17:57   Link #37
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Anyone know what happens why Kidd connects all 3 lines on his head? I know when he connects 2 his father passes out or something, but I really wanna know what happens when all three connect :X
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Old 2011-02-21, 21:44   Link #38
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... Well, we haven't seen that happen yet, so we have no idea. The main fan theory seems to be that at that point, Kid will become the official shinigami and replace his dad, who will die or something.
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