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Old 2008-06-19, 13:24   Link #41
Kaze
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Originally Posted by M4rauder View Post
I believe that Rukia must have had the Hougyoku inside her when she had her first encounter with Ichigo--the act of transferring her power to him while the Hougyoku was hidden inside her may have been the trigger that began Ichigo's hollowfication process. The Hougyoku inadvertently "unlocked" his inner hollow, which is what made him so powerful compared to most humans.
No

Urahara did
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Old 2008-06-19, 13:37   Link #42
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I believe Ichigo's hollowfication was an exception: he only become a Vizard because he was becoming a hollow at the same exact time he was regaining his Shinigami powers.
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Old 2008-06-19, 14:00   Link #43
mugenTaichou
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Or maybe Urahara knew that only way for Ichigo to regain his shinigami powers was trough hollowification.
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Old 2008-06-19, 14:21   Link #44
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by jelome1989 View Post
wait i dont get that last statement..

aizens powers are based on illusion but they are created through hypnosis?
so aizen had powers of hypnosis after all i dont get it
Basically, BleachOD believes Aizen has jedi mind control--that his hypnotism can make people obey his spoken commands. She thought Aizen was trying use his hypnotism to force Renji to give over Rukia and to make Urahara believe his lie. Both attempts don't work, because Aizen wasn't using hypnotism. But OD believes it's because he's being "resisted" (she wants to prove Aizen's power isn't as strong as it seems)

Aizen can only hypnotize people to see, hear, smell, feel and tastes what he wants (illusions). But his hypnotism can't make anyone do as he says.


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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I think you're misinterperting what he's saying. You're saying that she had the Hougyoku already in her before she went to Karakura, the real world. That is not necessarily the truth. He only stated that after she went missing in the real world, that means when the Gigai made her undetectable to the SS, he discovered that she had it in her. She was not considered missing in the real world until they lost track of her. Anytime before that the Hougyoku could have been placed in her. So its quite possible she had it placed in her after she came to Karakura.

You might laugh at my theory but I laugh at your inability to comprehend what you read.
If Urahara didn't decide to place it in Rukia until she came to the real world, that would make it much harder to explain how exactly Aizen would knew where the hougyoku was placed. How did he know for sure Urahara would choose Rukia?

I always figured that Urahara had recorded where he had hidden the hougyoku somewhere in his research, but Aizen wasn't able to find/decipher it until Rukia had gone missing.
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Old 2008-06-19, 14:39   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
If Urahara didn't decide to place it in Rukia until she came to the real world, that would make it much harder to explain how exactly Aizen would knew where the hougyoku was placed. How did he know for sure Urahara would choose Rukia?

I always figured that Urahara had recorded where he had hidden the hougyoku somewhere in his research, but Aizen wasn't able to find/decipher it until Rukia had gone missing.
My theory I stated on the last page is that this possibly because the SS sensors picked it up in Rukia's soul before the Gigai made her invisible or the act of placing it inside of her somehow alerted them.

It would be a big coincidence that he would find out about it being hidden in her soul just when she was away on a mission to the real world and suddenly became invisible. Especially as Urahara was exiled to the real world years before she became a Shinagami and we were told this was her first mission to real world.
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Old 2008-06-19, 14:56   Link #46
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
My theory I stated on the last page is that this possibly because the SS sensors picked it up in Rukia's soul before the Gigai made her invisible or the act of placing it inside of her somehow alerted them.

It would be a big coincidence that he would find out about it being hidden in her soul just when she was away on a mission to the real world and suddenly became invisible. Especially as Urahara was exiled to the real world years before she became a Shinagami and we were told this was her first mission to real world.
That actually does make some sense. The only questions it would leave was how Urahara transplanted the hougyoku without Rukia recalling it all (though I guess he could've wiped her memory)and why the hougyoku wasn't dectected when she was removed from the gigai in SS.

But, I get the feeling that Aizen's explanation isn't going to be elaborated on.
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Old 2008-06-19, 17:24   Link #47
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
You seem to forget, that on Rukia's first day in the human world she met Ichigo, lost her powers and got a Gigai from Urahara. This all happened on one day. There simply wasn't any time to implant the Hogyoku inside of her. She "immediately" went missing after coming to the human world.

Besides: I already said it: It doesn't make sense to keep the Hogyoku for 100 years, just to suddenly hide it inside of a weak newbie Shinigami. If he really had it with him, he had 100 years and probably thousands of Shinigami coming to the town to hide it.
I don't remember it being stated it was her first day but that is possible. He could have implanted the Hougyoku with the Gigai or just before. She didn't immediately go missing Aizen stated himself that it wasn't until she entered the Gigai that they lost track of her in Ch. 175, she didn't do this till after losing her powers to Ichigo. That's how he figured out this was all Urahara's doing. How he actually figured out she had the Hougyoku inside her is a mystery but it happened after she got into the Gigai.

It makes less sense to hide in a weak newbie Shinigami for those 100 years when he's in the real world and she's in SS with the person chasing after the Hougyoku. Possible answers for why he chose Rukia are desperation, she lost most of her Spiritual energy to Ichigo already so her turning into Human would be much faster than a normal Shinagami, and most Shinagami might not use Gigai when they come to the real world. Especially not as much as Rukia who had to rely on it because she had lost so much of it during the first chapter to Ichigo that her Shinagami form was unstable.
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Old 2008-06-19, 19:23   Link #48
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Everything makes sense now.
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Old 2008-06-19, 20:35   Link #49
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am i the only one who didn't expect Isshin in this arc?
i really think he's not from Soul Society

yes... yoruichi in the next chap.
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Old 2008-06-19, 21:57   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I don't remember it being stated it was her first day but that is possible. He could have implanted the Hougyoku with the Gigai or just before. She didn't immediately go missing Aizen stated himself that it wasn't until she entered the Gigai that they lost track of her in Ch. 175, she didn't do this till after losing her powers to Ichigo. That's how he figured out this was all Urahara's doing. How he actually figured out she had the Hougyoku inside her is a mystery but it happened after she got into the Gigai.

It makes less sense to hide in a weak newbie Shinigami for those 100 years when he's in the real world and she's in SS with the person chasing after the Hougyoku. Possible answers for why he chose Rukia are desperation, she lost most of her Spiritual energy to Ichigo already so her turning into Human would be much faster than a normal Shinagami, and most Shinagami might not use Gigai when they come to the real world. Especially not as much as Rukia who had to rely on it because she had lost so much of it during the first chapter to Ichigo that her Shinagami form was unstable.
I am preety sure the Houkyoku was hidden inside of Rukia's soul. Considering the Hougyoku was recovered in Soul Society, she would have no use wearing a gigai.

You are forgetting that Rukia is atleast 150 years old. During the time when Urahara was exiled, she was in Soul Society. Urahara could've transplanted the Hougyoku into her soul before he dissapeared.
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Old 2008-06-19, 22:03   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I don't remember it being stated it was her first day but that is possible. He could have implanted the Hougyoku with the Gigai or just before. She didn't immediately go missing Aizen stated himself that it wasn't until she entered the Gigai that they lost track of her in Ch. 175, she didn't do this till after losing her powers to Ichigo. That's how he figured out this was all Urahara's doing. How he actually figured out she had the Hougyoku inside her is a mystery but it happened after she got into the Gigai.

It makes less sense to hide in a weak newbie Shinigami for those 100 years when he's in the real world and she's in SS with the person chasing after the Hougyoku. Possible answers for why he chose Rukia are desperation, she lost most of her Spiritual energy to Ichigo already so her turning into Human would be much faster than a normal Shinagami, and most Shinagami might not use Gigai when they come to the real world. Especially not as much as Rukia who had to rely on it because she had lost so much of it during the first chapter to Ichigo that her Shinagami form was unstable.
It was Day One as shown in chapter 0a&b and had been on duty for about 17 hours. She started to use said gigai right after she lost her powers as Urahara came to her as she was lieing in the street.
If he hid it in her in SS it would have been when she was a child in nearly the worst part of SS. her life expectincy would not have been very long and she would likely be reborn loseing the Hougyoku. You notice thats the same plan he tryed to use on earth. As for the gigai, Isshin was in one for 20 years and seems to know most, if not all, of Urahara's plans there was no reason to wait for Rukia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
You seem to forget, that on Rukia's first day in the human world she met Ichigo, lost her powers and got a Gigai from Urahara. This all happened on one day. There simply wasn't any time to implant the Hogyoku inside of her. She "immediately" went missing after coming to the human world.

Besides: I already said it: It doesn't make sense to keep the Hogyoku for 100 years, just to suddenly hide it inside of a weak newbie Shinigami. If he really had it with him, he had 100 years and probably thousands of Shinigami coming to the town to hide it.
Not to mention Isshin, who no one seems to be looking for.
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Old 2008-06-19, 22:33   Link #52
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am i the only one who didn't expect Isshin in this arc?
Right here.

I expected Kukaku to be in this arc before Isshin
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Old 2008-06-19, 22:34   Link #53
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I was under the impression that Urahara hid the hougyoku in the gigai....besides wasnt urahara exiled long before rukia was even in the picture?
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Old 2008-06-19, 22:42   Link #54
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Originally Posted by Jays View Post
If I was a betting man, and I am, I'd say there's going to be moar talking and endless discussion next chapter about the past and present.

Still no answers as to why the Vaizards keep no tabs with Urahara, nothing into the past of Isshin, and next chapter promises to still keep a lot of questions out in the cold.
If I would bet, I'd surely lose

I also think there will be more talking. Or either it will jump to Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra scene.
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Old 2008-06-19, 22:47   Link #55
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Originally Posted by itis View Post
I am preety sure the Houkyoku was hidden inside of Rukia's soul. Considering the Hougyoku was recovered in Soul Society, she would have no use wearing a gigai.

You are forgetting that Rukia is atleast 150 years old. During the time when Urahara was exiled, she was in Soul Society. Urahara could've transplanted the Hougyoku into her soul before he dissapeared.
I agree its hidden in the soul of Rukia but during the process of getting the Gigai possibly when it was inserted.

She might have been alive but it awfully random of him to have stuck in it her though I don't deny the possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
It was Day One as shown in chapter 0a&b and had been on duty for about 17 hours. She started to use said gigai right after she lost her powers as Urahara came to her as she was lieing in the street.
If he hid it in her in SS it would have been when she was a child in nearly the worst part of SS. her life expectincy would not have been very long and she would likely be reborn loseing the Hougyoku. You notice thats the same plan he tryed to use on earth. As for the gigai, Isshin was in one for 20 years and seems to know most, if not all, of Urahara's plans there was no reason to wait for Rukia.
That plan seems very idiotic. He put something that could possibly lead to the destruction of the SS and the human world into random spirit A. He hopes that by chance random spirit A dies. If random spirit A doesn't die then hopefully it becomes a Shinagami. Then when it just happens to get assigned to his area he hopes that it gets attacked and loses it all of its spiritual energy forcing it to need the use of a Gigai. Wait now that I think about this plan is genius!

Isshin could have easily come before Urahara thought up this plan or at least became desperate enough to use it when his others ideas for destroying the Hougyoku ran out. After Isshin became human it was too late for him to try this on him.
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Old 2008-06-20, 00:19   Link #56
jelome1989
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Basically, BleachOD believes Aizen has jedi mind control--that his hypnotism can make people obey his spoken commands. She thought Aizen was trying use his hypnotism to force Renji to give over Rukia and to make Urahara believe his lie. Both attempts don't work, because Aizen wasn't using hypnotism. But OD believes it's because he's being "resisted" (she wants to prove Aizen's power isn't as strong as it seems)

Aizen can only hypnotize people to see, hear, smell, feel and tastes what he wants (illusions). But his hypnotism can't make anyone do as he says.

ahh i see i get the point

weeee onemanga released bleach -97
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Old 2008-06-20, 00:33   Link #57
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97 is awsome, go VIZARDS
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Old 2008-06-20, 00:54   Link #58
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who's side are the Vizards on? Man after reading the chapter i'm not 100% sure.
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Old 2008-06-20, 01:02   Link #59
Scep
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Win arc. It was awesome to read this chapter, though it was torture persisting not looking at the spoilers. Though I must say, I was an aizen fan for 7 seconds after i read this chapter because he killed central 46. Since it seems that the vaizards are going out, the question on where they are is interesting, since by mayuri's explanation, they are in SS (actually wait, didn't he say something about them all sleeping?) Or Hacchi could simply break out of everything. Maybe I'm sleepy or something, but i totally don't comprehend the discussions about rukia going on above me -_- zzz But anyway, "win" tag needed!!
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Old 2008-06-20, 01:04   Link #60
Endrance
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I gotta say im gonna miss the Flashback chapters a little...ok alot....mainly because of(and i'm not gonna stop mentioning this even though its like the 1000th time cause its driving me crazy) Where did ururu and ginta come from
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