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Old 2008-06-20, 06:27   Link #81
LightningZERO
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Didn't the Hougyoku fail to reverse the hollofication of the captains?
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Old 2008-06-20, 06:29   Link #82
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^ I think what he meant is that instead of flushing the hollow side away from those afflicted, hougyoku stabilised them instead.. merging both side in one body ^^ thus the vizards are born.
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Old 2008-06-20, 06:50   Link #83
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According to what Shinji quoted of Urahara "There were no miscalculations.......that was my greatest miscalculation".
I get the feeling once the Vaizardization was finished.........Urahara regretted what he had created. He may have spurned the vaizards then, and hence a gap grew between them.
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Old 2008-06-20, 06:54   Link #84
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I think, what happened is, uruhara managed to subdued those hollow side, allowing them to revert to their normal shinigami/human form (but not totally removed them but not aware of that fact).. thus the vizards blamed him for that, because somehow, some of them maybe goes berserk...
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Old 2008-06-20, 07:06   Link #85
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They all had to went through the stage where they had to fight their own hollows like Ichigo did. So the Hyogyoku wasn't enough to turn them into Vaizards right away, rather it only gave them a chance.
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Old 2008-06-20, 07:14   Link #86
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^ Thats probably this miscalculation that Uruhara did.. maybe >_<

..And more useless tag added >.>
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Old 2008-06-20, 08:25   Link #87
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btw, Kina, you can put those crazy speculations to rest... Rukia didn't exist yet when all of this was going down. Or at least not in Seireitei. This is way in the distant past when Byakuya was still going through puberty.

The Hougyoku was placed in the gigai, Urahara gave her when Ichigo took her powers in the beginning. It was what was preventing her from regaining her powers.
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Old 2008-06-20, 10:07   Link #88
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I'm wondering if Aizen already had control of Central 46 at this point in time through hypnosis or illusion or whatever you want to call it. I mean, far beyond just telling them that he was in sereitei the night of the incident. If that's the case that would be in-fucking-sane to have power over SS for that long without anyone knowing.
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Old 2008-06-20, 10:13   Link #89
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Why didn't Urahara explain the powers of Aizen's shikai, also who else thinks that the whole Urahara and the Vaizard escaping was just a part of SS's plans so that if anything happens they will always have back up in the real world. Also I would laugh if Yamamoto is the one who sent Yoruichi after explaining the situation.
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Old 2008-06-20, 10:15   Link #90
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Databook:
Quote:
MelodyMix: TOPICS: Hougyoku – bottom bit of the page



後に登場する、死神とホロウの境界を瞬時に無くし死神やホロウの限界を崩す危険な部室。地上へ とやってきたルキアの体内には、このときすでに宝玉が隠されていたのだった

Quote:
(The first part only explains what a Hougyoku is @_@). The Hougyoku was already hid inside Rukia’s body when she came to the human world.
Page 178

Quote:


すべては彼の掌の上に

死神の限界を破らんとする努力。その唯一の方法とされるのが“死神のホロウ化”だ。愛染を含め 多くの物が実 験を重ねたが、成功に至った者は唯一、浦原喜介のみ。浦原は死神とホロウの境界を消す“宝玉” を作りだすが 、その危険性を悟り存在自体を隠蔽した。選ばれし隠し場所は朽木ルキアの魂魄。歳月が経ち、任務だ現世は降 り たルキアは、一護に死神の力を奪われる。これを機に浦原は、特性義骸に霊力 拡散作用だルキア快復を阻害。時と共に霊力を奪われてルキアが人間ぬなってしまえば宝玉は完全 に隠されるは ずだった。

Quote:
MelodyMix: But what it basically says is, because the Hougyoku was a dangerous substance Kisuke decided to hide it somewhere, and that somewhere was in Rukia’s soul. And after a few years when Rukia came to the human world and gave Ichigo her power Kisuke took that opportunity to destroy the Hougyoku for good by giving Rukia a “special gigai” and turning her into a human. Because the Hougyoku was hid inside Rukia’s soul, as her Shinigami powers disappeared at the same time the Hougyoku will disappear as well, turning her into a human.

Nothing written about when Kisuke hid the Hougyoku inside Rukia or why he chose her. But VIBEs just proved the Hougyoku was inside Rukia before she met Ichigo and gave her power to him.
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Old 2008-06-20, 10:24   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
btw, Kina, you can put those crazy speculations to rest... Rukia didn't exist yet when all of this was going down. Or at least not in Seireitei. This is way in the distant past when Byakuya was still going through puberty.

The Hougyoku was placed in the gigai, Urahara gave her when Ichigo took her powers in the beginning. It was what was preventing her from regaining her powers.
Look at GB post just above..

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Old 2008-06-20, 10:25   Link #92
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If that is indeed true, then theres massive inconsistency. How and when? All of this happened before Rukia was even around. Is Urahara a god or something? Only possible explanation is if he had someone to cooperate with him in S.S. years later, and entrusted that person to stick it inside an unexpected soul... but how is that even possible without having that person aware, unless you knock that person out cold first... it makes absolutely no sense... this makes my head hurt. Theres also the possibility that he had Yoruichi do it, since she's not restricted from returning to S.S. like Urahara was.

Its also possible that Kubo completely forgot about the timeline when he decided to do the flash back arc. Vibes came out like, what? 2 years ago? This could be one of those things where it'll remain a plot hole forever.
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Old 2008-06-20, 10:30   Link #93
KiNA
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Not really, they age slowly in SS. Uruhara probably just pick some random soul in some random place in SS to hide hougyoku before escaping, it just happened that the one he picked end up to have strong soul enough to become a shinigami.
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Old 2008-06-20, 10:32   Link #94
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SS has a Kikanshinki (memory replacement) . Anybodies memories can be replaced
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Old 2008-06-20, 10:47   Link #95
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I don't think it works on Shinigamis, But Kina you could be right, that during his escape he probably ran into a young Rukia and implanted it into her. Whats the exact timeline of these flashbacks? Was it mentioned? We know that she's 150 years old roughly, so for Kisuke himself to do it, it'll have to be within that time frame.

After rewatching episode 61, and reading the manga, I realized how I mistaken about how the Hougyoku was placed inside Rukia, or should I say when?
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Old 2008-06-20, 11:00   Link #96
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so if shinji is going to try and get aizen back, wtf did shinji and the vizards wait for 100yrs to plot there revenge? there was nothing stopping them from doing it even without waitin 100yrs. This just shows us how weak these vizards are.....or not confidence in themselves

Even if they join the winter war, SS would still try and dissolve them since they are not on equal terms....
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Old 2008-06-20, 11:12   Link #97
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I think that they were also incapable of entering Soul Society, the same way Urahara was.
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Old 2008-06-20, 11:39   Link #98
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revenge is sweet for the vizards, cant wait to see them fight
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Old 2008-06-20, 12:35   Link #99
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Old 2008-06-20, 12:44   Link #100
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Yes, Let's Stop the Pendulum....

Battle at Karakura town!
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