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Old 2008-06-10, 22:58   Link #2001
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
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Will archer's rho aias works if Lancer uses his gae bolg in short-range?
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Old 2008-06-11, 00:34   Link #2002
Zarxs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Will archer's rho aias works if Lancer uses his gae bolg in short-range?
Considering the Difference from thrown Gae Bulg which emphasizes power over accuracy and short-range Gae Bulg which emphasizes accuracy I would think that short-range Gae Bulg would simply bend/reshape/jump and what not around Rho Aias to accomplish the predetermined piercing of the heart.

I like to think of the short-range Gae Bulg as a self redirecting 50 caliber bullet were as thrown Gae Bulg is a bomb...which is thrown, and has a drill on it...? …That made sense in my head.
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Old 2008-06-11, 09:46   Link #2003
Blade_Lord
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Will all servant(except of archer classes) die at the moment their master is killed?

Can a servant cancel their contract with their master?

Since Archer is EMIYA can other servants sign contract with him?

Does Archer still have avalon in his body?

What is the name of Sasaki Koujirou's Noble phantasm?

Rin said in fate route that Kansho and Bakuya is not Archer's Noble phantasm. So what is Archer's noble phantasm?

How many kinds of barrier that existed in Nasuverse?

Since Gilgamesh himself is divine will archer traced enkidu work on him?

What is archer's strongest arrow?

I heard that activating Unlimited Blade Work harms Shirou and archer and for that reason Archer wore the red trench coat. Is that true?

What determines the stat of the servant's abilities?
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Last edited by Blade_Lord; 2008-06-11 at 10:13.
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Old 2008-06-11, 10:13   Link #2004
Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Will all servant(except of archer classes) die at the moment their master is killed?
No it depends on two factors:

1) How much mana they have left.
2) If they have Independant Action as a skill.

Saber, without a Master can last for 2 hours before she disappears.
Archer (after heavily draining his mana taking on Lancer, Caster, Saber, and Gilgamesh) can last 2 days.

Quote:
Can a servant cancel their contract with their master?
Quote:
Since Archer is EMIYA can other servants sign contract with him?
I don't understand this question.

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Does Archer still have avalon in his body?
Most likely, yes.

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What is the name of Sasaki Koujirou's Noble phantasm?
He doesn't have one, though Tsubame Gaeshi is a skill that is on the level of one.

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Rin said in fate route that Kansho and Bakuya is not Archer's Noble phantasm. So what is Archer's noble phantasm?
Unlimited Blade Works. Technically its a Reality Marble, but its considered a Noble Phantasm.

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Since Gilgamesh himself is divine will archer traced enkidu work on him?
Yes. Just not as powerful since his traced Enkidu will go down a rank.

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What is archer's strongest arrow?
Unknown. He's only used two arrows, Caladbolg II and Hrunting. Caladbolg II had the power of a mini-tactical nuke, whereas Hrunting is powerful enough to punch through 4x layers of Rho Auis and still have enough power to completely nuke the bridge.
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Old 2008-06-11, 10:34   Link #2005
rastilin
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Quote:
Will all servant(except of archer classes) die at the moment their master is killed?
Rider also has independent action, but yes, otherwise 2 hours.

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Can a servant cancel their contract with their master?
No, not in any situation. They can goad the master into burning through their command seals or kill them, but they can't cancel the contract.

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Since Archer is EMIYA can other servants sign contract with him?
Yes, he's a Magus and has been a master in the past. But, he's used up all his command seals, he'd need more command seals first.

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Does Archer still have avalon in his body?
Most signs point to no. It's heavily implied that Archer's route was very similar to Fate, he met saber, fought for justice, saved Iliya and he knows about Avalon. He specifically says "I see you still have the sheath within you." This implies he had his own removed.

Quote:
Unknown. He's only used two arrows, Caladbolg II and Hrunting. Caladbolg II had the power of a mini-tactical nuke, whereas Hrunting is powerful enough to punch through 4x layers of Rho Auis and still have enough power to completely nuke the bridge.
You're seriously underestimating a mini tactical nuke. Even the smallest nukes ever made, created for an experimental troop operated "nuke cannon" had blast radii exceeding their range. This is nowhere near the level of a nuke.

Last edited by rastilin; 2008-06-11 at 11:00. Reason: Grammar corrections.
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Old 2008-06-11, 11:18   Link #2006
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Will all servant(except of archer classes) die at the moment their master is killed?
No. Servants don't die, they disappear.
How long each servant lingers depends on one factor: mana. As long as the servant has mana, they can main. And a few factors affacts on how long their mana will last, as well.
Some servants, like Bererker, uses up a lot of mana just by existing. They are the most likely to 'disappear immediately' without a mana source. 4th HG war Berserker disappeared almost immediately when he sucked his master dry of mana during combat.
Some servants, like casters, are capable of absorbing mana from external sources to replenish their mana reserve, and does not really have a problem staying without a mana source. However, without a master the HG won't supply them with the mana required to exist(which is far greater than any humans can generate)
Some servants, like archers, has independent actions, are also capable of lingering like casters. However this is done by cutting the amount of mana loss instead of replenishing their reserve.

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Can a servant cancel their contract with their master?
Yes. However most servants won't do that unless they are sure they can find a new master. Saber in bad end 1 of the game has done that once, Archer of 4th HG War has also done that.

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Since Archer is EMIYA can other servants sign contract with him?
Why not? Problem is, depending on the servant signing a contract with him, his reseve will get sucked dry as soon a psychic link is established.

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Does Archer still have avalon in his body?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
Most likely, yes.
No, since he already took it out in his life time. Archer can only be from Fate route Shirou if we assume that he is not from another parallel universe outside of the three routes of the game.
This is deduced by the fact that Archer knows Avalon is in Shirou's body(forgot where...but probably in the UBW route), and the only Shirou who knows about Avalon is from Fate route.

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What is the name of Sasaki Koujirou's Noble phantasm?
He doesn't have one. He has a skill which can match that of a noble phantasm, but it is not one.

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Rin said in fate route that Kansho and Bakuya is not Archer's Noble phantasm. So what is Archer's noble phantasm?
He doesn't have one, since he is a faker. If you really want to assign Archer a noble phantasm, it'll be his reality marble(it says so in the game), but it really is a magic he wield.

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How many kinds of barrier that existed in Nasuverse?
Countless.

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Since Gilgamesh himself is divine will archer traced enkidu work on him?
Why not?

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What is archer's strongest arrow?
Given unlimited mana reserve, Excalibur on broken phantasm. Realistically, ask Nasu.

Quote:
I heard that activating Unlimited Blade Work harms Shirou and archer and for that reason Archer wore the red trench coat. Is that true?
Nope. Activating UBW only drain their mana, but it doesn't harm them(it is the only magic that doesn't harm him upon performance) Archer wore the red coat when he thinks he is fighting for justice...not sure where he mentioned it, though.

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What determines the stat of the servant's abilities?
Their class, their life, their death.

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Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
You're seriously underestimating a mini tactical nuke. Even the smallest nukes ever made, created for an experimental troop operated "nuke cannon" had blast radii exceeding their range. This is nowhere near the level of a nuke.
Isn't that why he said 'mini'?
By the way...what's the difference of a tactical nuke and of a nuke?
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Old 2008-06-11, 11:59   Link #2007
rastilin
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Nope. Activating UBW only drain their mana, but it doesn't harm them(it is the only magic that doesn't harm him upon performance) Archer wore the red coat when he thinks he is fighting for justice...not sure where he mentioned it, though.
The red coat is stated to have the effect of "spirit protection", it prevents the equivalent of critical failures when spellcasting. Without it there's a non-zero chance during combat that the summoned swords of Archer won't manifest in the air, but will instead appear inside his body. Causing a rather painful death. It supposedly happens when he traces too many swords at once or in extremely rapid succession.

Basically, the red coat is an artefact and not just for show.

He mentions in in the sequel. It's implied at various points that the red cloth used by Caren to bind men is the material for Archer's coat. On the basis that it's a red artifact with spirit protection possessed by the only person not pulled from the young Shirou's memories. It's suggested that Caren comes from Archer's memories instead.

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Yes. However most servants won't do that unless they are sure they can find a new master. Saber in bad end 1 of the game has done that once, Archer of 4th HG War has also done that.
There's a difference between cancelling the contract and stabbing the other party in the face.

Quote:
Isn't that why he said 'mini'?
By the way...what's the difference of a tactical nuke and of a nuke?
According to wikipedia, a "tactical" device like the "Sunbeam" tested in the 1960s will do "Medium damage to civilian buildings" up to about 2km or so. The weapons used against Japan did this to about 5km and modern weapons do it to about 54km.

EDIT: {54km is given as the upper boundary for a 20Mt device. But I note that "Castle", "Hardtack 1 & 2" and "Dominic" pushed 40-50Mt, over twice the yield, so devices exist that extend far further. Range is also increased if the device is detonated underwater and used against a fleet.}

But I'm pretty sure that most tactical devices ended up not going into production.

Neverthless, unless Archer can level everything in 2km with a single shot, it's still not a nuke-equivalent.

Last edited by rastilin; 2008-06-11 at 12:04. Reason: "Bravo" should read "Dominic"
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Old 2008-06-12, 14:35   Link #2008
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
There's a difference between cancelling the contract and stabbing the other party in the face.
Who stabbed who?

Quote:
According to wikipedia, a "tactical" device like the "Sunbeam" tested in the 1960s will do "Medium damage to civilian buildings" up to about 2km or so. The weapons used against Japan did this to about 5km and modern weapons do it to about 54km.

EDIT: {54km is given as the upper boundary for a 20Mt device. But I note that "Castle", "Hardtack 1 & 2" and "Dominic" pushed 40-50Mt, over twice the yield, so devices exist that extend far further. Range is also increased if the device is detonated underwater and used against a fleet.}

But I'm pretty sure that most tactical devices ended up not going into production.

Neverthless, unless Archer can level everything in 2km with a single shot, it's still not a nuke-equivalent.
That's impossible...
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Old 2008-06-12, 19:08   Link #2009
rastilin
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Quote:
Who stabbed who?
I'm not sure which Bad End you're referring too. But aside from using up all the command seals, the general way servants get out of a contract is by killing their masters. It's not something that can be cancelled at will.

Saber - Shirou (Bad End)
Archer - Caster
Lancer - Kotomine
Caster - ????? (Something happened to her first master).

In the fourth, Archer killed Tokomi Tohsaka.
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Old 2008-06-12, 22:48   Link #2010
Blade_Lord
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Given unlimited mana reserve, Excalibur on broken phantasm. Realistically, ask Nasu.
Are you saying archer cannot use Excallibur as broken Noble phantasm??
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Old 2008-06-13, 09:02   Link #2011
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
I'm not sure which Bad End you're referring too. But aside from using up all the command seals, the general way servants get out of a contract is by killing their masters. It's not something that can be cancelled at will.

Saber - Shirou (Bad End)
Archer - Caster
Lancer - Kotomine
Caster - ????? (Something happened to her first master).

In the fourth, Archer killed Tokomi Tohsaka.
Servants are not capable of attacking their masters unless their contract is severed/their master runs out of command mantras. In bad end 1 Shirou gave two of his command mantras to Kotomine and used the last one to tell Saber to cancel their contract. Then when their contract is cut he got stabbed by Lancer (according to people who played the PS2 game, they could hear Lancer's voice in that particular bad end...)

Archer managed to attack Rin because Rin was not her master due to Rule Breaker.

Lancer killed Kotomine after Kotomine used up his command mantras, same thing for Caster.

In the fourth HG War, it was Kotomine who stabbed Tokomi Tohsaka, archer merely stood by the side and watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Are you saying archer cannot use Excallibur as broken Noble phantasm??
Well if Archer breaks Excalibur he can then use Excalibur as a 'broken Noble Phantasm'...

Unleashing Excalibur itself already depletes his mana, so using it as Broken Phantasm should be impossible, since broken phantasm is done by having the user pour more mana than required into it, causing said noble phantasm to overlord and explode like a bomb...

I'm wondering...should Broken Phantasm have capitals in each word? Unlike other Noble Phantasms, it's the name of a move itself...
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Old 2008-06-13, 11:29   Link #2012
rastilin
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What you say makes perfect sense. However I'm pretty sure that Caster still had at least one command mantra when Archer killed her, since she was going to use it on Saber.
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Old 2008-06-13, 13:35   Link #2013
iamandragon
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Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
What you say makes perfect sense. However I'm pretty sure that Caster still had at least one command mantra when Archer killed her, since she was going to use it on Saber.
That's because Caster as a master bends the rules, therefore a few rules which are complied via the grail does not apply to her--stopping the servants from attacking them is one, and Caster can only do that via using command mantras. Archer was capable of attacking her at all time, but he had to do it when Caster wasn't paying attention to him so that she won't use the last mantra to "kill yourself, Archer" or something worse.

To make matters worse(for Caster), the archer class servant is the most capable of defying their master with 'independent action', weakening their master's orders. Caster, with Saber, Assassin and Archer as her servants, will and definitely have difficulty keeping them in place.
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Old 2008-06-17, 22:30   Link #2014
kenny b
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umm i have some questions after i rewatched the anime
1. how does ilya know that shiro is a master at first sight?
2. kotomine kirei said someone unfit got the grail, and he doesnt know what wish that master made. he said he retired early in the 4th war. so that means he lied, right?

sorry that my questions might have been asked, but theres 101 pages to go through.
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Old 2008-06-18, 01:03   Link #2015
rastilin
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Quote:
1. how does ilya know that shiro is a master at first sight?
Mages can sense one another instantly, although Shiro doesn't give that much of a signal off and doesn't know what to look for. In Ilya's case, it's possible she's just good.

Quote:
2. kotomine kirei said someone unfit got the grail, and he doesnt know what wish that master made. he said he retired early in the 4th war. so that means he lied, right?
He lied. Kotomine is the one who got the grail and his wish was to "Make Everything dissapear", that's where the fire came from.
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Old 2008-06-18, 01:11   Link #2016
kenny b
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ahh. so i guess the anime deviates slightly from the game, esp in UBW where kotomine said he did not lie.

thanks for the answers rastilin
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Old 2008-06-18, 03:22   Link #2017
rastilin
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Well technically he told the truth, he DID drop out near the beginning. But then he got another servant and went back in.
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Old 2008-06-18, 13:08   Link #2018
iamandragon
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Originally Posted by kenny b View Post
umm i have some questions after i rewatched the anime
1. how does ilya know that shiro is a master at first sight?
All mages do not keep their mana 100% within themselves, instead, they leak out slightly from their magic circuit. A mage can search for another mage by sensing traces of mana from that person. Shirou, being a person who shuts down his magic circuit and create a new one the next time before getting trained by Tohsaka, does not really have a magic circuit and thus have no mana to leak around, that's why Tohsaka didn't know about Shirou practicing magic all the time.

As for masters detecting masters, their command mantras are actually solid mana themselves, so if a mage detects another mage with a very concentrated mana souce on their body part, then they know he is a master. Illya herself being a big mana block is even more sensitive to active command mantras.


Quote:
2. kotomine kirei said someone unfit got the grail, and he doesnt know what wish that master made. he said he retired early in the 4th war. so that means he lied, right?
He lied. In Fate/Zero...
Spoiler for F/Z:


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Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
He lied. Kotomine is the one who got the grail and his wish was to "Make Everything dissapear", that's where the fire came from.
No one got the grail. Emiya senior blew up his wife(who was the grail) and caused the contents to spill out, engulfing the city, him and Kotomine. But it was still Kotomine's wish to have everything get destroyed--but not disappear. He said he want to know more about the true side of humans by watching them suffering.(or something like that, the translation might be off)


Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny b View Post
ahh. so i guess the anime deviates slightly from the game, esp in UBW where kotomine said he did not lie.
You notice the statement 'I do not lie' is always and never fails to be a lie itself in any situation, any person, and any universe?
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Old 2008-06-19, 00:39   Link #2019
kenny b
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ah a paradox
but for ilya to sense shirou based on his command mantra, his wasnt activated until the next day?
to be precise the next night, but if the blood seeping out in the morning could be taken into consideration then morning.
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Old 2008-06-21, 04:17   Link #2020
Blade_Lord
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Quote:
He have his servant to pretend to be defeated and seek protection from the church, then he continue to spy around with his servant afterwards. No one unfit got the grail, but the winner of the previous grail war was Emiya senior, whom he think is unfit for anything since he is the complete opposite of Kotomine.
And the servant meet their end when they meet Iskander right?

Why does Iskander have a D-rank magic resistance?I thought Rider class does not have magic resistance?

How strong is a C-rank magic resistance?

Iamandragon you once said shirou will grow to be 10 times stronger than archer in UBW route.In what way do you mean strong? His strength or what??

Can archer traced avalon like shirou did?
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