AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Code Geass

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-06-24, 15:39   Link #2021
Dream_Traveller
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
That wasn't until Stalin came about. Russia did pretty well under Lenin's rule.
Dream_Traveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:39   Link #2022
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
The Civil War was a giant blood bath on both sides just because of two opposing views. It worked to get rid of Slavery, but what else did it accomplish?

And the French Revolution gave us a dictator that tried to take over the world and who thought he was a god.



It worked alright... Until a crazed dictator showed up and started to slaughter his own people.
The point of the matter is that no one knows what the future holds. Did ANY of those people know that would be the result when they began them? No.
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:41   Link #2023
Traece
:cool:
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho
Age: 22
Civil Wars tend to be the door to revolution. Even the Chinese Federation has a very short civil war resulting in the government being overthrown and changed. The Eunuch General and their followers vs Xing Ke, Tianzi, and the citizens.

There's a lot we've gained from Civil Wars in the U.S., after all. Our country, for one...
__________________
Traece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:41   Link #2024
Eliarine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Destruction is quicker and easier than trying to actually change something. And the results are of course way more noticeable. That doesn't mean nothing can change if you don't start kicking everything in your way. All these "Suzaku's way is hopeless!" claims are depressing and annoying.
Eliarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:42   Link #2025
Verist
KDF Kallen Defense Force
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Looking for CG Writers email addresses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
The point of the matter is that no one knows what the future holds. Did ANY of those people know that would be the result when they began them? No.
Valid point, but people took action. Unlike Suzaku, jeez does he not know there are 26 episodes? His route is going to take forever
Verist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:43   Link #2026
demon_god04
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
There's a lot we've gained from Civil Wars in the U.S., after all. Our country, for one...
And the abolishment of slavery is hardly a small accomplishment, whether it is worth the people killed is subjective really.
__________________
demon_god04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:44   Link #2027
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
All these "Suzaku's way is hopeless!" claims are depressing and annoying.
Exactly. I do feel he's got noble intentions in that regard--I just don't see him actually doing anything towards that goal.
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:44   Link #2028
Orga777
TRUE! Lelouch is dead! XD
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
The point of the matter is that no one knows what the future holds. Did ANY of those people know that would be the result when they began them? No.
Exactly! But that is why doing it with peace is greater than doing it with a war. In a war one side will be happy, and the other won't be. Look at the Civil Rights Movement done peacefully and within. It took a while, but it got done. Why have a revolution that just increases the amount of body bags on both sides?

Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04
It really depends, revolution may not always be the answer, it depends on the regime. We debated partially about that issue before, the thing is though Suzaku's way may very well neccessitate him going after the Emperor as well considering that he needs the Emperor's power to affect the kind of change he profess to want.
Perhaps. Or perhaps the next emperor would agree with Suzaku and want to change things. It could be either. Not everyone in the Royal Family or Britannia are as heartless as others.
Orga777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:46   Link #2029
DarkLordOfkichiku
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Right... Revolution is the answer... Like during the Civil War... wait... or the French Revolution... wait... no... or the uprising against the Czars of Russia... err... Yeah... those just caused a shit load of more problems...
Well, revolution is alwas a sort of double-edged sword of sorts - it might fail and in the end as such nothing gained through it - the american civil war being an example. The revolution might be successfull though, gaineing new rights and what not for people - the american revolutionary war being an example there. Revolution isn't always the solution I'd say. But soemtimes, it might jsut have to be done. ´Changing fromt he inside may work as well - but at a just as enormus cost, because change takes time, especially in a setting like Britannia's. Revolution costs a lot in terms of destruction and lives, so you cannot perhaps ever truly justify it - but the same can go for changing from the inside; can you truly justify just sitting around and wait for things to change for the better while millions of people even might suffer for generations - especially when the desired change might never come that way?
DarkLordOfkichiku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:48   Link #2030
Dream_Traveller
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Because usually, though you have provided a good example with the Civil Rights Movement, Orga, violence through rebellion is usually the only way a) they are carried out or b) people think they will succeed. There have been failures...but here, well, using violence has certainly worked in Lelouch's favour. Suzaku, contrasting, has gotten virtually nowhere.
Dream_Traveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:50   Link #2031
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Perhaps. Or perhaps the next emperor would agree with Suzaku and want to change things. It could be either. Not everyone in the Royal Family or Britannia are as heartless as others.
If Lelouch has his way, he'll be the next Emperor. >_>

But honestly, the only non-racist full-blood Britannians we've seen are Lelouch, Nunnally, and Euphemia. I don't include Gino and Anya because we don't know their feelings towards Elevens are just yet. For the most part, though, we see that the Brittanians don't give a rat's ass about the Numbers. Most are oppressed and treat them cruelly, or are afraid of them and feel the Numbers are going to hurt them no matter what (just look at Nina)

Though in that regard, the Numbers have a REALLY good reason for hating Brittanians (what with the whole losing the country's name and what not).
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:51   Link #2032
demon_god04
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 29
Changing things from the inside is also only a viable option when there are a number of those in power that want such change or can be persuaded. Britannia nobility has been shown to be perfectly happy lording over everyone else, and remember the Emperor's speeches, the country's founding principle seems to be Darwinism. If the Areas want rights or whatever they will have to fight for it.
__________________
demon_god04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:53   Link #2033
Orga777
TRUE! Lelouch is dead! XD
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Because usually, though you have provided a good example with the Civil Rights Movement, Orga, violence through rebellion is usually the only way a) they are carried out or b) people think they will succeed. There have been failures...but here, well, using violence has certainly worked in Lelouch's favour. Suzaku, contrasting, has gotten virtually nowhere.
You see, I have had dealt with this same argument before. Suzaku is in a tight position right now. He wants to change things, but you see, how can he change things for the better when there are a bunch of renegade (and to the Britannian stand point, terrorists) running around trying to topple the reigning government. It is HARD for people to actually listen to change things if the ruling party has to deal with Zero and the Black Knights from destroying things constantly. So Lelouch could be PREVENTING that from actually happening with his view point of destruction.
Orga777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:53   Link #2034
Eliarine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
You could also try to look at things from another perspective.

- Lelouch wanted to destroy Britannia but didn't have the power to do so. He got Geass, and started working on it.

- Suzaku wanted to change Britannia but didn't have the power to do so either. Now he's Knight of Seven, and starts working on it by trying to become Knight of One.

Except it doesn't count. Because he's Suzaku.
Eliarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:54   Link #2035
Traece
:cool:
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho
Age: 22
Things can't be changed from the inside. That's what revolutions are for. There are more examples of things being changed through force and uprising than of things being changed by single people.

Even in the U.S., big changes are only made because the citizens rose up and demanded change.
__________________
Traece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:55   Link #2036
Orga777
TRUE! Lelouch is dead! XD
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Things can't be changed from the inside. That's what revolutions are for. There are more examples of things being changed through force and uprising than of things being changed by single people.
And most of them end badly.
Orga777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:56   Link #2037
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
You could also try to look at things from another perspective.

- Lelouch wanted to destroy Britannia but didn't have the power to do so. He got Geass, and started working on it.

- Suzaku wanted to change Britannia but didn't have the power to do so either. Now he's Knight of One, and starts working on it by trying to become Knight of One.

Except it doesn't count. Because he's Suzaku.
Don't you mean Knight of Seven, and starts working on it etc?
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:58   Link #2038
Majek
Sm3rt teh M@d Jester
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SLB, Slovenia
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Things can't be changed from the inside. That's what revolutions are for. There are more examples of things being changed through force and uprising than of things being changed by single people.

Even in the U.S., big changes are only made because the citizens rose up and demanded change.
You do know what happens after every big revolution don't you. A civil war and a worse regime.
__________________
"I cannot be caged! I cannot be controlled! Understand this as you die, ever pathetic, ever fools!"

http://icandoit.mybrute.com - fight me !!
Majek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 15:58   Link #2039
Eliarine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Woops, my bad I guess the blind hate and depressing discussion in this thread got to my brains Will fix that
Eliarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-24, 16:02   Link #2040
Eagles
Char clone
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Things can't be changed from the inside. That's what revolutions are for. There are more examples of things being changed through force and uprising than of things being changed by single people.

Even in the U.S., big changes are only made because the citizens rose up and demanded change.
Theres a difference between demanding change and throwing a revolution. What would have happened had the African-American Civil Rights Movement gone down the path of a revolution?
Eagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.