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Old 2008-06-24, 17:18   Link #2081
Eliarine
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Well that is pretty general and vague. I am going to skip the first one for now and go to the second one. Lelouch wanting to kill his dad is justified if you think otherwise please explain because I would love to hear it. While on other hand Suzaku killed his dad out of his own because he thought it was the correcting thing to do as Japan was in war and he wanted end the war. However this was what Suzaku himself thought and in the end Japan surrender. Basically he thought he was the doing the right thing without thinking of the opinion of other Japanese.
The third one, Lelouch's reason for his evil doing is for his sister. Suzaku is doing what he is doing because he think he is just and correct. Really and Suzaku is contradicting himself as he himself does not want violence and yet he kills other. Not only that Suzaku seems to not to care about common people, especially looking at the most recent episode.

The fourth one, well Suzaku does not want to change the world but he just want to stabilize Japan. And let's be honest letting Brittania do what it is doing isn't exactly good. And the final one yes let Suzaku die already .
And like I keep saying again and again, this is all a matter of perspective. Lelouch thinks he is doing the right thing, just like Suzaku believes he is doing the right thing. They are not that different, and I always thought that was what made Code Geass interesting. Finding this forum made me see that most people just like seeing Lelouch winning and hope Suzaku will die.

I must be crazy for liking the show for such a shallow reason in the first place.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:19   Link #2082
wtfftw
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Oh, my bad, I never knew there were official polls on who liked Suzaku or not in the series. You're obviously a lot more informed than me so I will shut up about the people who weren't fighting in the suburbs because they were not Japanese apparently.
I didnt say you should shut up i just said that if you say you gonna ignore me you should do it lol and not after that keep posting.

But what i recall from season 1 was a clear line between where the brits lived and the elevens which they called terrorists. Pretty much like what you see in Gaza or isreal and Palestinians.

I mean if someone stands up for the Palestinians and makes a revolution he will have all the support of the Palestinians. However if a Palestine goes in the Israeli army and gets a high rank and some people look up to him(which in the case of geass was to show 2 sides) does not really have a broad support imo. Simple reason is because as seen the show they are easily turned on how they view suzaku while with zero it was OMG he is back our saviour

Still i think he suzaku can make a big difference he is just not doing it. The only thing he hasis power and power alone can not change people. He needs the support of the people Reason why i say he isnt doing anything is because he is not getting that support.

I would change my opinion if the authors show how by every action the japanese people would support him. But by taking down zero he is making himself an enemy in the eyes of the japanese people.

last but not least what demon is trying to say eliarine Lulu is doing everything he can for nunnaly's sake. Whereas suzaku made a choice at the age of 10 or lower even adults have problems with to decide what to do.

HOW THE FUCK can you approve of Suzaku's choice atthat time. I mean seriously use your brain. i'll try to simplify it for you people

If you have america and america goes to war with japan(WO2). Now all the army men have sons like Suzaku. But now we have Suzaku's divine and righteous choice Every soldier of america that has a son like gets killed. Because their 6 - 8 old sons dont wnat war.

Serously do you know how fucked up that is. He could try to talk his dad out of it, whatever but to kill your dad because you dont want war when it basically is upon you. So what he doenst kill the emperor who makes wars but he killed his dad. Seriously that guy is 1 messed up retarded fuck who needs to go to a mental institution periodly
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:20   Link #2083
canis
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Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
well what demon_god04 is saying is my point. The show does not show that he has something in plan for japan or what he wanna do its all in his mind. If he did he would already had started set things in motion which would make me believe that he is doing something.
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Well Suzaku has a great chance now that Zero is gone from Britannia, he also took the people that were discontent and unwilling to live under Britannia rule. And Eleven support is quite irrelevant, since essentially they have no power in how Britannia is governed.

He still has to follow orders after becoming Knight of One, infact it may even be worst since the Knight of One is officially the Emperor's knight, he would still have to follow the Emperor's orders.

He has a goal, a goal that has not been shown to make any headway in the year that he became Knight of Seven. Fact is he still has not been shown to have much of a plan and seems to be mainly concerned with helping to project Britannia's dominance and fighting Zero.
I don't think he has too much leeway to be honest. Apart from fighting the Knights don't have that many tasks, it seems that they are some sort of high-spec task force. He has some power over the military but the administration of the country is handled by the governor. Now that Nunnally is in office she might be able to change something. It'll take some time for her to actually wield the power she is supposed to hold.
So he's still mainly a soldier... Until he has actually some say in political matters he could only prepare for that time and we don't know about that. There hasn't been too much focus on Suzaku in that regard... Nobody knows what happened during the time skip...
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:23   Link #2084
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
While on other hand Suzaku killed his dad out of his own because he thought it was the correcting thing to do as Japan was in war and he wanted end the war. However this was what Suzaku himself thought and in the end Japan surrender. Basically he thought he was the doing the right thing without thinking of the opinion of other Japanese.
Japan getting split in three parts in a possibly endless war is a good alternative then? Riiight...

Quote:
The third one, Lelouch's reason for his evil doing is for his sister.
Oh not this excuse. He claims he WAS doing it for his sister, but I don;t think that is entirely accurate. I think he is doing this for himself just as much. He is an angry kid, and wants petty revenge on his father. Does he honestly care that much about the Japanese? Or was he just using them for his purposes to topple Britannia? Besides, I don't think Lelouch knows his sister very well if that is his reason. Considering she said she does not approve of his methods. So his only purpose was wrong to begin with.

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Suzaku is doing what he is doing because he think he is just and correct.
WRONG. Suzaku is doing it because he thinks the cause is just and correct. Not that he is just and correct. He regrets killing his father every day. It isn't that he was old when he did it either, he was a goddamn ten year old. How do you think he felt afterwards for such a young child to do something like that? It destroyed him.

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Really and Suzaku is contradicting himself as he himself does not want violence and yet he kills other.
No. He doesn't like killing needlessly. He will kill when he has to, but it doesn't mean he would like it.

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Not only that Suzaku seems to not to care about common people, especially looking at the most recent episode.
I think you need to go back and re-watch every episode because that is the most blatant lie I have ever heard on the character.

Quote:
The fourth one, well Suzaku does not want to change the world but he just want to stabilize Japan. And let's be honest letting Brittania do what it is doing isn't exactly good. And the final one yes let Suzaku die already .
And what Lelouch is doing is any more right than what Suzaku is doing? LOLZ!
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:24   Link #2085
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
And like I keep saying again and again, this is all a matter of perspective. Lelouch thinks he is doing the right thing, just like Suzaku believes he is doing the right thing. They are not that different, and I always thought that was what made Code Geass interesting. Finding this forum made me see that most people just like seeing Lelouch winning and hope Suzaku will die.

I must be crazy for liking the show for such a shallow reason in the first place.
Suzaku and Lelouch are similar in a sense but also very different. I'll quote myself from the Kallen thread if you don't mind.

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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Though on that matter it is more of a "grey" area as it is matter of opinion. They are both hypocrates, just differant kinds. Suzaku's way is that he is basically lying to himself, Lelouch on the otherhand lies to others while he is honest about his intentions to himself. Really it is a matter of which way you prefer.

Lelouch has gotten better in R2 and so has Suzaku to a certain degree, though I admit I am harsher on Suzaku because I disagree with his idealism more.
It's just more people disagree with Suzaku's hypocricy then Lelouch's. It is not the blind Suzaku hate you seem to make it out to be. And they are not the same, just similar but very different on the aspects that matters.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:30   Link #2086
Orga777
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
He also had a year after the black rebellion, yet did not make any headway what so ever.
He has no political power and Japan was a mess after teh Black Rebellion. Corneila was missing, the place was in shambles, the government was thrown into disarray, and when things finally returned to normal, the Britannians decided that they needed to rule that area with an iron fist because of that rebellion to try and prevent it from happening again. HOW can you go in and try and propose a change under such circumstances?
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:30   Link #2087
wtfftw
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Originally Posted by canis View Post
I don't think he has too much leeway to be honest. Apart from fighting the Knights don't have that many tasks, it seems that they are some sort of high-spec task force. He has some power over the military but the administration of the country is handled by the governor. Now that Nunnally is in office she might be able to change something. It'll take some time for her to actually wield the power she is supposed to hold.
So he's still mainly a soldier... Until he has actually some say in political matters he could only prepare for that time and we don't know about that. There hasn't been too much focus on Suzaku in that regard... Nobody knows what happened during the time skip...
Where is it stated that soldier can not do social stuff. Is a soldier somehow a different being from someone who starts a organization for the better of life please explain me this matter and i will agree.

So im a general but im not allowed to make a institution for the homeless or people with cancer pls save me the drama of suzaku cant do anything. Your all bloody wrong. he can just go to the chamber of commerce and start a institution its as simple as that.

@Orga777 suzaku is killing for the LULZ and he is following LULU for the lulz right. He killed his dad for the LULZ too

ooh wait he made a justified choice by killing his dad because he felt like it, even though his dad was the representative of japan.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:34   Link #2088
Orga777
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Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
@Orga777 suzaku is killing for the LULZ and he is following LULU for the lulz right. He killed his dad for the LULZ
....You better be joking here. Because if you aren't, then you are incapable of following any story. Epic Fail.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:35   Link #2089
m1thril
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Well that is pretty general and vague. I am going to skip the first one for now and go to the second one. Lelouch wanting to kill his dad is justified if you think otherwise please explain because I would love to hear it. While on other hand Suzaku killed his dad out of his own because he thought it was the correcting thing to do as Japan was in war and he wanted end the war. However this was what Suzaku himself thought and in the end Japan surrender. Basically he thought he was the doing the right thing without thinking of the opinion of other Japanese.
The third one, Lelouch's reason for his evil doing is for his sister. Suzaku is doing what he is doing because he think he is just and correct. Really and Suzaku is contradicting himself as he himself does not want violence and yet he kills other. Not only that Suzaku seems to not to care about common people, especially looking at the most recent episode.

The fourth one, well Suzaku does not want to change the world but he just want to stabilize Japan. And let's be honest letting Brittania do what it is doing isn't exactly good. And the final one yes let Suzaku die already .
because LL OBVIOUSLY understood what nunally wanted of course...

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Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
I didnt say you should shut up i just said that if you say you gonna ignore me you should do it lol and not after that keep posting.

But what i recall from season 1 was a clear line between where the brits lived and the elevens which they called terrorists. Pretty much like what you see in Gaza or isreal and Palestinians.

I mean if someone stands up for the Palestinians and makes a revolution he will have all the support of the Palestinians. However if a Palestine goes in the Israeli army and gets a high rank and some people look up to him(which in the case of geass was to show 2 sides) does not really have a broad support imo. Simple reason is because as seen the show they are easily turned on how they view suzaku while with zero it was OMG he is back our saviour

Still i think he suzaku can make a big difference he is just not doing it. The only thing he hasis power and power alone can not change people. He needs the support of the people Reason why i say he isnt doing anything is because he is not getting that support.

I would change my opinion if the authors show how by every action the japanese people would support him. But by taking down zero he is making himself an enemy in the eyes of the japanese people.

last but not least what demon is trying to say eliarine Lulu is doing everything he can for nunnaly's sake. Whereas suzaku made a choice at the age of 10 or lower even adults have problems with to decide what to do.

HOW THE FUCK can you approve of Suzaku's choice atthat time. I mean seriously use your brain. i'll try to simplify it for you people

If you have america and america goes to war with japan(WO2). Now all the army men have sons like Suzaku. But now we have Suzaku's divine and righteous choice Every soldier of america that has a son like gets killed. Because their 6 - 8 old sons dont wnat war.

Serously do you know how fucked up that is. He could try to talk his dad out of it, whatever but to kill your dad because you dont want war when it basically is upon you. So what he doenst kill the emperor who makes wars but he killed his dad. Seriously that guy is 1 messed up retarded fuck who needs to go to a mental institution periodly
i thought japan pretty much lost and that his dad just wanted to keep fighting? and frankly i think LL just uses his sister as an excuse to rebel against charles e.g. i think he seems more intent on getting revenge for his mom
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:36   Link #2090
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by canis View Post
I don't think he has too much leeway to be honest. Apart from fighting the Knights don't have that many tasks, it seems that they are some sort of high-spec task force. He has some power over the military but the administration of the country is handled by the governor. Now that Nunnally is in office she might be able to change something. It'll take some time for her to actually wield the power she is supposed to hold.
So he's still mainly a soldier... Until he has actually some say in political matters he could only prepare for that time and we don't know about that. There hasn't been too much focus on Suzaku in that regard... Nobody knows what happened during the time skip...
And that changes when he is Knight of One how? If anything becoming Knight of One means he will be tied down farther with the Emperor and less able to affect any change. The fact that Suzaku has still not shown any competence in political matters and farther evidence that he will likely not be able to affect the changes he wants with the methods he wants. If anything Lelouch would have the better chances changing Britannia from within and Suzaku would have more luck fighting them with a sword.

And you really don't honestly believe that Nunnally was allowed to be the Governer to lead do you? She is being propped up as a puppet leader that plays on the sympathy of the people because she appears innocent, and is blind and crippled.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
He has no political power and Japan was a mess after teh Black Rebellion. Corneila was missing, the place was in shambles, the government was thrown into disarray, and when things finally returned to normal, the Britannians decided that they needed to rule that area with an iron fist because of that rebellion to try and prevent it from happening again. HOW can you go in and try and propose a change under such circumstances?
He became the Knight of Seven right after it, and it could be argued that the fact that the Japanese were discontented with the Britannians was what turned them to someone like Zero in the first place. Ruling them with an iron fist is not a long term solution, they needed something to keep the Elevens in line, using force is just one way. Had Suzaku been able to do something for the Japanese then he may very well have been able to fill the void of hopelessness for the Japanese when Zero was "executed" and regain their trust, making the threat of farther rebellion less likely.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:36   Link #2091
Orga777
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Originally Posted by m1thril View Post
because LL OBVIOUSLY understood what nunally wanted of course...


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i thought japan pretty much lost and that his dad just wanted to keep fighting? and frankly i think LL just uses his sister as an excuse to rebel against charles e.g. i think he seems more intent on getting revenge for his mom
I 100% agree.

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Originally Posted by demon_god04
He became the Knight of Seven right after it, and it could be argued that the fact that the Japanese were discontented with the Britannians was what turned them to someone like Zero in the first place. Ruling them with an iron fist is not a long term solution, they needed something to keep the Elevens in line, using force is just one way. Had Suzaku been able to do something for the Japanese then he may very well have been able to fill the void of hopelessness for the Japanese when Zero was "executed" and regain their trust, making the threat of farther rebellion less likely.
I KNOW ruling with an iron fist isn't a good idea, but can you blame them? The same people just tried to topple the ruling government in a fiasco that caused considerable property damage and a high cost of both Britannian and Eleven lives.

NO Elevens trusted them (or Suzaku) after that mess with Euphemia. Wasn't that made perfectly clear in R2? Again, what do you propose Suzaku to do under those circumstances? The big wigs in charge aren't going to listen after what happened with the Rebellion after all. What do you want him to do?
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:37   Link #2092
wtfftw
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....You better be joking here. Because if you aren't, then you are incapable of following any story. Epic Fail.
im being cynical and somewhat serious and making fun at the same time because

you trying to justify suzaku's action where he murdered his dad just cuz



he wanted to end the war

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1thril
i thought japan pretty much lost and that his dad just wanted to keep fighting? and frankly i think LL just uses his sister as an excuse to rebel against charles e.g. i think he seems more intent on getting revenge for his mom
so your basically saying that if a leader of a country who keeps on fighting because they never wanna give up should be killed. Like how the war seemed hopeless in the WO2 for russia they should just have surrendered and get it over with.

What ever reason of the 2 reasons you choose for lulu he has justice on his side and the support of the people which makes that he is right in that japan and its people and he himself have suffered by the hands of brits. So if they have a common interest which is to take down brittania then it dont matter if its revenge for his mom or to secure nunally.

To put it frankly everyone in OoBK knows that lulu has vague motives yet they follow him blindly because he is the only one who can support them and lead them to have a japan free from oppressors. Thats the whole freaking point. I would not have my view on Suzaku
if

1) he did not kill his dad to end the war
2) he did something for the japanese people which i can see verify or some kind of initiative that would point out he has something in mind.

From what i know i might be wrong. But i thought it was Suzaku who put nunannly or recommended her to be the governor if he did then he has political influence. Then Its nunnaly who makes the same idea like (forgot the girls name) and suzaku is shocked as in OMFG japanese people right like brits "SHOCK".

Now how the hell is that showing he wants to make a difference when he is one. I thought he would show a laugh like Nunnally nice idea. Instead its ZOMFG no what did you do.

Last edited by wtfftw; 2008-06-24 at 17:50.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:43   Link #2093
canis
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Where is it stated that soldier can not do social stuff. Is a soldier somehow a different being from someone who starts a organization for the better of life please explain me this matter and i will agree.

So im a general but im not allowed to make a institution for the homeless or people with cancer pls save me the drama of suzaku cant do anything. Your all bloody wrong. he can just go to the chamber of commerce and start a institution its as simple as that.

@Orga777 suzaku is killing for the LULZ and he is following LULU for the lulz right. He killed his dad for the LULZ too

ooh wait he made a justified choice by killing his dad because he felt like it, even though his dad was the representative of japan.
Nobody said he can't establish a social organization but it's not what he wants... he has one goal and that's enough on his plate. For that he'll need political power, and a soldier doesn't have that... Even a Knight's is limited.
He'll need to be an established part of the government... Until that happens he'll need to be careful to not draw unwanted attention, if they start to doubt his loyalty then they'll just get rid of him...
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:43   Link #2094
Eliarine
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Simple reason is because as seen the show they are easily turned on how they view suzaku while with zero it was OMG he is back our saviour
There were people supporting Suzaku. But Zero made everyone believe he and Euphemia planned on killing them all along. Of course they saw him as their savior.

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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
It's just more people disagree with Suzaku's hypocricy then Lelouch's. It is not the blind Suzaku hate you seem to make it out to be. And they are not the same, just similar but very different on the aspects that matters.
It is blind hate when people worship Zero and hate Suzaku. You might be among the few people here actually trying to look at things from both perspectives, but there are people here who like to stop at "Lelouch is right, Suzaku is wrong".

And I never said they were the same, I said they were not that different. It's sad how people seem to like focusing on their differences and ignore the similarities.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:48   Link #2095
canis
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And that changes when he is Knight of One how? If anything becoming Knight of One means he will be tied down farther with the Emperor and less able to affect any change. The fact that Suzaku has still not shown any competence in political matters and farther evidence that he will likely not be able to affect the changes he wants with the methods he wants. If anything Lelouch would have the better chances changing Britannia from within and Suzaku would have more luck fighting them with a sword.
He'll get jurisdiction over Japan... That means pretty much everything.

Quote:
And you really don't honestly believe that Nunnally was allowed to be the Governer to lead do you? She is being propped up as a puppet leader that plays on the sympathy of the people because she appears innocent, and is blind and crippled.
Of course not... But Euphemia was also a puppet before she decided to do something about it. Nunnally has expressed the desire to do something, maybe she'll be able to follow her example.

Quote:
He became the Knight of Seven right after it, and it could be argued that the fact that the Japanese were discontented with the Britannians was what turned them to someone like Zero in the first place. Ruling them with an iron fist is not a long term solution, they needed something to keep the Elevens in line, using force is just one way. Had Suzaku been able to do something for the Japanese then he may very well have been able to fill the void of hopelessness for the Japanese when Zero was "executed" and regain their trust, making the threat of farther rebellion less likely.
Well, the Japanese seem to be adjusting... I don't consider it a good thing, but apparently they could gain a certain amount of life quality and rights...
As I said we don't know what happened..
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:52   Link #2096
wtfftw
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Originally Posted by canis View Post
Nobody said he can't establish a social organization but it's not what he wants... he has one goal and that's enough on his plate. For that he'll need political power, and a soldier doesn't have that... Even a Knight's is limited.
He'll need to be an established part of the government... Until that happens he'll need to be careful to not draw unwanted attention, if they start to doubt his loyalty then they'll just get rid of him...
Thats exactly the reason WHY the change from within is BS and which is why i say they can just invade japan all over again. SO why would it work if he is round of one and not now.

He will draw unwanted attention either way.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:52   Link #2097
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im being cynical and somewhat serious and making fun at the same time because

you trying to justify suzaku's action where he murdered his dad just cuz



he wanted to end the war
compare suzaku's dad situation-wise to hitler in WW2 after the allies landed in europe and solidified their foothold in france. both were going to inevitably lose (we both know that suzaku's dad is no LL AND britannia were superior to the Japanese both technology-wise and manpower-wise) and thus to prevent any further useless bloodshed, suzaku assassinated his dad while the germans tried to assassinate hitler (sadly they failed miserably). if suzaku hadn't killed his father...japan would be in rubbles and their situation would most likely be harsher than what it was at the start of code geass.

another example is that you can somewhat compare suzaku killing his father with the droppings of the atomic bombs on japan. both were done to minimize the loss of human lives. in suzaku's case, it was to prevent the loss of Japanese lives while in the US case, it was to prevent the loss of American lives.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:52   Link #2098
kk2extreme
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i said if he is gonna take powers into his own hand try not to be a hypocrite all the time and just assasinate his own way to be the knight of one and kill zero at the same time.

geez, suzaku should just go to dictator academy and learn how to get power the right way and be very cool at the same time.

idk, something about him just rubs me the wrong way, i dont really hate him or anything but his actions just frustrate me.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:53   Link #2099
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
I KNOW ruling with an iron fist isn't a good idea, but can you blame them? The same people just tried to topple the ruling government in a fiasco that caused considerable property damage and a high cost of both Britannian and Eleven lives.

NO Elevens trusted them (or Suzaku) after that mess with Euphemia. Wasn't that made perfectly clear in R2? Again, what do you propose Suzaku to do under those circumstances? The big wigs in charge aren't going to listen after what happened with the Rebellion after all. What do you want him to do?
Didn't we already go over this though I expect him to have a plan when he is trying something as ambitious as what he is claiming to.

The Elevens were crushed when Zero was gone and the Black Rebellion failed, I'm just saying that if Suzaku had been able to do something to help the Elevens he could work on regaining their trust, possibly as a condition for capturing Lelouch or for his support to capture C.C. All he has basically done in over a year on his supposed goal is to become the Knight of Seven, no attempt to gather political support or anything.
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Old 2008-06-24, 17:53   Link #2100
Orga777
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Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
Thats exactly the reason WHY the change from within is BS and which is why i say they can just invade japan all over again. SO why would it work if he is round of one and not now.

He will draw unwanted attention either way.
That doesn't make any sense. WHY would they invade a country already under their control? How does that even sound remotely logical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04
The Elevens were crushed when Zero was gone and the Black Rebellion failed, I'm just saying that if Suzaku had been able to do something to help the Elevens he could work on regaining their trust, possibly as a condition for capturing Lelouch or for his support to capture C.C. All he has basically done in over a year on his supposed goal is to become the Knight of Seven, no attempt to gather political support or anything.
But he had no real power in the political system whether he is a Knight of Seven or not! Do we even know that he DIDN'T propose something? Who the hell would listen to him? The country tried to throw a damn coup on them, and you think they are going to play nice with that? What do you think he has teh power to do when nobody is going to listen? You can't answer that with anything. He couldn't DO anything. The Rebellion made it impossible for anything to be done. The Britannian government didn't trust the Elevens, and teh Elevens didn't trust the Britannian government. There is nothing he has the power to do.
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