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Old 2008-06-25, 10:19   Link #2201
Orga777
TRUE! Lelouch is dead! XD
 
 
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
....a country doesn't have to be liberated for everything to work out....BAH!!! If thats the way you think, I feel pity for you.
What? If the ruling party changes its philosophy, then who cares? Before teh whole Euphie incident the Eleven's opinions were SPLIT evenly between Black Knights, and Britannian Supporters. So how the hell can you say that?
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Old 2008-06-25, 10:21   Link #2202
Eliarine
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
People can't live on good intentions alone, I can have the best intentions in the world and yet it would amount to nothing if nothing comes out of it.

And I only really replied because you seem to think that everyone who hates Suzaku does so unfairly and holds this supposed double standard for him and Lelouch.
So you really do think like Lelouch. That's okay, but keep in mind that there are also people who don't.

I don't think everyone who hates Suzaku does so unfairly. Everyone is entitled to hate a character for whatever reason. But I do think that quite a few people here are way too forgiving towards Lelouch and too harsh on Suzaku. There's evidence for this in just about every thread. This is what annoys me and why I try my best to defend Suzaku. I like discussions better when people are at least trying to be objective.
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Old 2008-06-25, 10:21   Link #2203
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
....a country doesn't have to be liberated for everything to work out....BAH!!! If thats the way you think, I feel pity for you.
Lets be fair, the majority of the Japanese does not care who rules them as long as they have peace. It is because there is such a big gap between the Numbers and Britannians that so many of them are dissatisfied. If they are treated as equals with equal rights and opportunities then the Japanese don't have much to complain about Britannia in general.
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Old 2008-06-25, 10:22   Link #2204
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
What? If the ruling party changes its philosophy, then who cares? Before teh whole Euphie incident the Eleven's opinions were SPLIT evenly between Black Knights, and Britannian Supporters. So how the hell can you say that?
Thats a really big 'what if' to count on and by the looks of it, Charles the emperor still has quite a number of years left to live and most Britannians support the philosophy that only they have the right to rule, that kind of philosophical change isn't possible in Suzaku's lifetime and after Suzaku dies, the momentum of his changes will slow down and just go away.
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Old 2008-06-25, 10:25   Link #2205
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
Thats a really big 'what if' to count on and by the looks of it, Charles the emperor still has quite a number of years left to live and most Britannians support the philosophy that only they have the right to rule, that kind of philosophical change isn't possible in Suzaku's lifetime and after Suzaku dies, the momentum of his changes will slow down and just go away.
Charles doesn't CARE what his underlings are doing. He hardly steps in and does anything anyway. He lets his underlings do what ever the hell they want. When has he ever stepped in and stopped anything that anybody wanted to get done? He is too busy worrying about blowing up some gods (apparently.)
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Old 2008-06-25, 10:28   Link #2206
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Charles doesn't CARE what his underlings are doing. He hardly steps in and does anything anyway. He lets his underlings do what ever the hell they want. When has he ever stepped in and stopped anything that anybody wanted to get done? He is too busy worrying about blowing up some gods (apparently.)
You forgot talking to dead people and hanging out with his shota nii-san in a creepy temple like weapon with Jupiter scenery, and generally putting on an impressive but mysterious air. Oh and he makes speeches about being proud of being murderers and thieves.
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Old 2008-06-25, 10:40   Link #2207
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
Thats a really big 'what if' to count on and by the looks of it, Charles the emperor still has quite a number of years left to live and most Britannians support the philosophy that only they have the right to rule, that kind of philosophical change isn't possible in Suzaku's lifetime and after Suzaku dies, the momentum of his changes will slow down and just go away.
Yeah and exactly what HAS Charles done in S1? Nothing, he knew Lelouch was running around with a rebellion but never told or did anything at all. He could've ended it with a bomb strike at the school and kill him and Nunnally. It was only until Suzaku dragged him into the Throne that he did something.

Though of course it could be similar to what Megatron in beast wars stated.

"I can accept your treachery, what I cannot accept is YOUR FAILURE!"
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Old 2008-06-25, 10:45   Link #2208
canis
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
Thats a really big 'what if' to count on and by the looks of it, Charles the emperor still has quite a number of years left to live and most Britannians support the philosophy that only they have the right to rule, that kind of philosophical change isn't possible in Suzaku's lifetime and after Suzaku dies, the momentum of his changes will slow down and just go away.
Why would it? If he manages to leave a lasting impression why wouldn't others take up what he started? He was about to become a symbol for working together with Britannia, a japanese Knight and a britannian princess,...
Or maybe someone would have the same idea and would succeed where Suzaku wasn't able to?
Your 'what if' is just as viable as Orga777's...
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Old 2008-06-25, 11:29   Link #2209
Dynastya
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It finally dawned on me why Suzaku is so obsessed with Lelouch:

This is what he is really thinking in his mind: Damn that Lelouch, all the girls like him. Big busted Milly and Shirley, bondage girl CC, bunny girl Kallen, my own fellow Knight of Round Anya has a picture of him as a child...even his own blood relatives Nunally and Euphemia and the only reason they care about me is because they are related and can't be with him. He's even popular with my own people and many nations of the world.

What's so great about him, sure he's smart and handsome and is modest and will go out of his way to help someone and won't take credit for it. But look at me, I'm athletic, strong, fast, I'm even a Knight of Rounds. I pilot this cool looking knightmare, I'm close to Schneizel...

I hate him, I'm so jealous, I am going to kill him. If I can't have him none of those girls will.
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Old 2008-06-25, 11:35   Link #2210
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
It finally dawned on me why Suzaku is so obsessed with Lelouch:

This is what he is really thinking in his mind: Damn that Lelouch, all the girls like him. Big busted Milly and Shirley, bondage girl CC, bunny girl Kallen, my own fellow Knight of Round Anya has a picture of him as a child...even his own blood relatives Nunally and Euphemia and the only reason they care about me is because they are related and can't be with him.

What's go great about him, sure he's smart and handsome and is modest and will go out of his way to help someone and won't take credit for it. But look at me, I'm athletic, strong, fast, I'm even a Knight of Rounds. I pilot this cool looking knightmare, I'm close to Schneizel...

I hate him, I'm so jealous, I am going to kill him. If I can't have him none of those girls will.
.....LMAO! That is funny.
That is the best thing I have read all day.
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Old 2008-06-25, 12:21   Link #2211
blitz1/2
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
He relies on the technological advancement of his knightmare frame too much, I wonder how skilled he really is if he were to fight against someone like Guilford in equal knightmare frames.
Well, he isn't skill-less either. It's more like ever since he became the White Reaper, he might have become more cocky. In season 1, he was unpredictable (don't know how Lulu said he was predictable) but now in R2, it's so easy to figure out how he fights and which weapons he would use.
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Old 2008-06-25, 12:58   Link #2212
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Well, he isn't skill-less either. It's more like ever since he became the White Reaper, he might have become more cocky. In season 1, he was unpredictable (don't know how Lulu said he was predictable) but now in R2, it's so easy to figure out how he fights and which weapons he would use.
Unpredictable? Not so sure about that. Maybe just because Lelouch didn't know the Lancelot's Devicer was Suzaku. Then he began studying the Lancelot's tactics and moves, and found the pattern it follows. Thus, it became predictable, and thus, Lelouch took advantage of it.
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Old 2008-06-25, 13:25   Link #2213
Blue_Mercy
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post

WRONG. It wasn't because of Nunnally that they got away scott free. Suzaku could have ordered everyone to fire, and there would have been another massacre. So the only reason they got out at all is because Suzaku was there (if he wasn't the others would have killed them all.) So you should be thanking Suzaku for letting them get away and credit him for helping Lelouch get those 1 million people out of harms way.


Your argument is that Suzaku contributed by not ordering the MASSACRE of Japanese? Which he only did after having a flashback of Nunnally and Euphemia, he was going to shoot.
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Old 2008-06-25, 13:28   Link #2214
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post


Your argument is that Suzaku contributed by not ordering the MASSACRE of Japanese? Which he only did after having a flashback of Nunnally and Euphemia, he was going to shoot.
No, he was undecided on that. He knew that to prevent Zero from succeeding in his plans, he'd have to kill Zero, which would mean he'd be forced to kill everyone present (would he have been dumb enough to have killed the dog wearing the Zero helmet?) but he knew such a thing would end badly since nobody knew who Zero was (as Suzaku's under the impression that this is a new Zero, not Lelouch). It was only until that hag lady went to shoot that he had the revelation of what Euphemia and Nunnally had wanted, concerning Zero.
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Old 2008-06-25, 14:01   Link #2215
Blue_Mercy
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
No, he was undecided on that. He knew that to prevent Zero from succeeding in his plans, he'd have to kill Zero, which would mean he'd be forced to kill everyone present (would he have been dumb enough to have killed the dog wearing the Zero helmet?) but he knew such a thing would end badly since nobody knew who Zero was (as Suzaku's under the impression that this is a new Zero, not Lelouch). It was only until that hag lady went to shoot that he had the revelation of what Euphemia and Nunnally had wanted, concerning Zero.
Your missing the point; if the only redeeming quality you can find about a character is that he didn't order the killing of thousands of innocent people, then I would say you have a serious problem.
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Old 2008-06-25, 14:05   Link #2216
Rising Dragon
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Your missing the point; if the only redeeming quality you can find about a character is that he didn't order the killing of thousands of innocent people, then I would say you have a serious problem.
Wasn't aware I was supposed to be finding redeeming qualities in characters, I only tried to clarify something from what I understood. I mean, it was pretty easy to see that he was conflicted. He knew his duty was to eliminate Zero, but he didn't want to do it by killing 1 million people by his order.
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Old 2008-06-25, 14:31   Link #2217
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
Your argument is that Suzaku contributed by not ordering the MASSACRE of Japanese? Which he only did after having a flashback of Nunnally and Euphemia, he was going to shoot.
He was never going to shoot. As Rising Dragon said, he may have been conflicted, but the thought of another massacre made up his mind real quick. Which was what happened there. Again, if he wasn't there, there would have been NOTHING to stop it from happening again.

Also, that isn't the only 'redeeming' thing people can find in Suzaku. Just that if people are going to credit Lelouch for getting 1 million people out, they better give credit to Suzaku for allowing that to happen in the first place.
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Old 2008-06-25, 14:37   Link #2218
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
He was never going to shoot. As Rising Dragon said, he may have been conflicted, but the thought of another massacre made up his mind real quick. Which was what happened there. Again, if he wasn't there, there would have been NOTHING to stop it from happening again.

Also, that isn't the only 'redeeming' thing people can find in Suzaku. Just that if people are going to credit Lelouch for getting 1 million people out, they better give credit to Suzaku for allowing that to happen in the first place.
And don't forget to add additional credit to Lelouch for coming up with a way for 1 million people (probably the optimum/maximum number of people the artificial island they get from the CF can support) to get out from under the oppression of the Britannians.
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Old 2008-06-25, 14:39   Link #2219
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
And don't forget to add additional credit to Lelouch for coming up with a way for 1 million people (probably the optimum/maximum number of people the artificial island they get from the CF can support) to get out from under the oppression of the Britannians.
Well, of course. I didn't say he didn't. Just that it would have failed if Suzaku wasn't there. BOTH deserve credit for having it go off without a massacre ensuing. Not just one, which was the whole point I was trying to make.
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Old 2008-06-25, 14:43   Link #2220
Dynastya
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Well, of course. I didn't say he didn't. Just that it would have failed if Suzaku wasn't there. BOTH deserve credit for having it go off without a massacre ensuing. Not just one, which was the whole point I was trying to make.
Ahh almost forgot another credit for Lelouch, he needs 1 for knowing that Suzaku wouldn't dare shoot the 1million 'Zeros' and using it to his advantage.

Lelouch = 3 (figure may be much higher than shown if all factors are considered)
Suzaku = 1 (this figure does not represent the true number of credits for this person as his betrayals, idiocy, irresponsibility, etc have not been taken into account yet)
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