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Old 2008-06-27, 05:28   Link #1941
Keroko
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I wonder if the same were to be said if we say that 'all guns' are the same?

Seriously, saying that they are 'just variants' of other melee weapons is saying that gun B is just a 'variant' of gun A, despite obvious differences between them. The difference between wielding a halbert and a battleaxe is quite large. Yes, you can say that general weapon types have already been used, but why look at it that black and white? The series sure doesn't look at it like that, with its numerously varying weapon forms (for example, we have seen various types of pole weapons, such as Bardiche and Zest's Glaive, and yet both of them were not the same weapon types).

As for spears, I can't believe you forgot Erio so soon. I mean, granted he was not that major a character, but he had a canon spear-type Device. I believe I've been saying spears are some of the best melee weapons I've ever wielded quite a while ago. Stabs and thrusts are so much harder to block then swings.

Thanks for giving me a new series to watch, by the way. :3
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Old 2008-06-27, 05:36   Link #1942
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Morningstars are the only real unused there...

As for Poleaxe and the variants... it's a derrivative/specialization of the axe. Bardiche is actually a type of axe in it's conventional form. (Bardiche is litterally, a Bardiche.)

Now, it would do for me to say I'm not counting individual variants of weapons, I'm counting general types of weapons.

All in all, most of what you posted are either swords, axes, or clubs. You can change the individual design styles, give them fancy names, and all that, but they're still just swords, axes, and clubs.
Yeah, everyone knows that a zweihander can be used the same way as a viking longsword, arabian scimitar, roman gladius and italian rapier.

But fine! I'll just say that the PSG-1, AK-47, Franchi SPAS-12 are still just rifles!

Christ...
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Old 2008-06-27, 06:47   Link #1943
Kyral
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post

The weapon of choice of my Big Stupid Fighter in Legend of the Five Rings
A crab hida bushi? xD
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Old 2008-06-27, 06:52   Link #1944
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
A crab hida bushi? xD
Hell, yes.

My gamemaster has gone in despair when his four onis went down because I one-shot them all. (I rolled lots of 10s that night, it was the old L5R system, not D20)

And I gained honor points because my friends all ran away, leaving me, the tank, to deal with the onis.

Now he thinks twice before throwing monsters at me lightly.
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Last edited by Sheba; 2008-06-27 at 07:03.
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Old 2008-06-27, 07:35   Link #1945
Liingo
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Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Iiiinteresting.

Should I ask for a quick informal role-call of active OCs and their weapons (or Devices)?
Adding to things:

1) Slew of characters with standard devices
2) Isamu: Daedra: Twin Bladed Battle Axe, Armed Device
Valivis: Stormreaver: Claw Device, One on each hand. Technically a storage device, but is closer to an Armed device.
Tuala: Ulthamar: Armed Device, Quarterstaff. Possible Spear Form in the works as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
...

<.<

>.>

*Drops package and runs*

Spoiler for HQ Attack Details:
Most of that looks good to go. I'm not too sure myself about having Hayate posess epic Melee skills on par with the other Predominantly Melee focused Knights, however. Having Hayate be as good as them sought of screws over the system.. I'd be much happier with Hayate smashing the crap out of Zest from Long-Middle range, with Melee combat a low / null focus here.

The suicide bombing of the cyborgs is ok... although it'd be good if you can find another way of culling the cast.

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Old 2008-06-27, 08:39   Link #1946
stormturmoil
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@ Comartemis:

One problem with the cyborg-bombing plan is that it cuts into Jail's (either of them's) safety net, viz. the plan involving all the numbers being up the duff with further memory-uploaded clones of Jail.

if you're removing that (or making it so that it's original Jail's and Clone jail doesn't know of it) then it doesn't obviously matter.

But if it's staying, you then need to justify why Jail would risk decimating his ace-in-the-hole (Hah!) backup plan for so little tangible gain.
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Old 2008-06-27, 08:45   Link #1947
Comartemis
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*Coma smacks storm upside the head with the pun-bat*

That was horrible, storm. But good point nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I'm actually doubtful the Church Knights would be deployed, given the fact that their loyalty is to the Saint Church, rather than the TSAB proper. Also, as I recall, the reinforcements that Tre and Sette slaughtered were Ground Forces Air Division - basically if Air Force are fighters, GF Air Division are attack choppers. Or were those the fliers who were attacking the Cradle? Garh. Need to rewatch.
Ah, one of the details I haven't mentioned; Iris is a Knight of the Saint Church, representing the interests of Carim and company. She has a fairly high level in the command structure, to the point where she reports directly to Carim every so often. Usually she's involved in the recovery of Lost Logia that are of interest to the Church, such as holy relics and demonic artifacts (what exactly demons are in Comacanon still needs to be resolved) in need of disposal or sealing. For this series, she's involved in the Relic case at Carim's request under Hayate's command, so between her and Carim, it's not all that unlikely that a cadre of Church Knights will get involved in the HQ attack.

As for the fliers, considering that the battle was fairly high-altitude most of the way through, I'd say that that's the domain of the Air Forces, not the ground forces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Pretty much. That is what special forces do, afterall: killing people, and being very good at it.

Hell, in TF6, we're going to have sniper on sniper action: Ivanovich vs Dieci. Let's just say that it's an easy shot for Ivanovich and leave it at that.

And don't forget that the best person to kill cyborgs... is a demon...
You wouldn't mind if I borrow the OFM then, would you Goose? I'd need your help writing Ivanovich and the rest unless they only make a token background appearance, since I'm pretty sure I couldn't do Johnson's badassness the proper justice it deserves.
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Old 2008-06-27, 09:20   Link #1948
Liingo
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Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Ah, one of the details I haven't mentioned; Iris is a Knight of the Saint Church, representing the interests of Carim and company. She has a fairly high level in the command structure, to the point where she reports directly to Carim every so often. Usually she's involved in the recovery of Lost Logia that are of interest to the Church, such as holy relics and demonic artifacts (what exactly demons are in Comacanon still needs to be resolved) in need of disposal or sealing. For this series, she's involved in the Relic case at Carim's request under Hayate's command, so between her and Carim, it's not all that unlikely that a cadre of Church Knights will get involved in the HQ attack.
Well, theres an even easier explanation. Carim's inside the HQ as well.. There's your reason. Even if there's no order for them to go, you'd think that they be a tad worried that their leader (Head of state?) is in a building that's under seige. Well at least I'd hope that they're worried
Quote:
As for the fliers, considering that the battle was fairly high-altitude most of the way through, I'd say that that's the domain of the Air Forces, not the ground forces.
I'm fairly certain that it's always Ground Force fliers in both sequences, HQ and Cradle. ep 21 would back this as well ~5:50. Assuming of course that the subs are trustworthy 'Mid Army Aerial Forces'

No comments about what I said up above Cort?
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Old 2008-06-27, 09:29   Link #1949
krisslanza
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Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
And all the other yakyuken crack you've probably got floating around in that head of yours
Is that a bad thing...?

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Originally Posted by LimitedEternal View Post
The crack of the Dark Goddess flows strongly...*covers nose and mouth*
Why are you covering your nose and mouth...? And since when did I become a "Dark" Goddess anyway!?

Its so nice having a backlog that only takes one copy/paste to do.
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Old 2008-06-27, 09:34   Link #1950
PhoenixG
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Since I called you DG of yakyuken? :P
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Old 2008-06-27, 09:35   Link #1951
Comartemis
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Quote:
No comments about what I said up above Cort?
No, the post was just a little rushed and you got left out.

Quote:
Most of that looks good to go. I'm not too sure myself about having Hayate posess epic Melee skills on par with the other Predominantly Melee focused Knights, however. Having Hayate be as good as them sought of screws over the system.. I'd be much happier with Hayate smashing the crap out of Zest from Long-Middle range, with Melee combat a low / null focus here.
How does having Hayate have good melee skills "screw over the system"? Her title of Mage-Knight indicates a mastery of both Mid and Belka systems, so why the heck wouldn't she be able to hold her own in melee?

Recall that one of the big points of Comcanon is to de-shaft Hayate and rid her of the glass cannon image, and there's no better way to do that than to show that she can tangle with the best of the best in melee and at range.
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Old 2008-06-27, 09:53   Link #1952
Liingo
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Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
How does having Hayate have good melee skills "screw over the system"? Her title of Mage-Knight indicates a mastery of both Mid and Belka systems, so why the heck wouldn't she be able to hold her own in melee?

Recall that one of the big points of Comcanon is to de-shaft Hayate and rid her of the glass cannon image, and there's no better way to do that than to show that she can tangle with the best of the best in melee and at range.
I don't have anything againt the de-shaft Hayate campaign, but I don't see why she needs melee skills on par with the Melee-only characters, when she already has the ability to lay down the pain from a few k's away.

Survive in Melee? Sure, I'm fine with that.
Be able to Beat Signum/Zest/ Any other 'pure' melee character (of similar rank) in Melee? That's my problem with this.

Anything is an improvement from what it currently is (Caro being able to beat Hayate in melee if we believe the manga) but you're taking things a little too far there. She has no weakness as you're planning to make her, none. I don't see her needing the ability to take people down in a full fledged Melee. She's got enough firepower as it is.

Pretty much by the time threats get into melee range they should already be so stuffed from trying to avoid everything that shes dished out in their direction that they can be taken down in melee without anything fancy.
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Old 2008-06-27, 09:56   Link #1953
krisslanza
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Originally Posted by PhoenixG View Post
Since I called you DG of yakyuken? :P
Oh. Right.
Why DID you call me that anyway?
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Old 2008-06-27, 10:03   Link #1954
kazenoyuuchi
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There sure are a lot of characters already created!
Makes me want to create an OC...

But first...
Something I believe is called...

BACKLOG BREAKER!!!!!(who coined up that term anyway???)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Welcome, Kaze, enjoy your stay in Cadia. Go ahead and post a character, or write a few stories.
Will do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
And yes do feel welcome. I saw you lurking around before, wondering when were you going to make the move.

If you need any help, just ask, we'd be happy to provide assistance.
Heh... Guess I was seen

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Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
*Tri-Ace welcome!* =3
Tri-Ace??? Whats that???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Likewise I encourage people to create romance pairings for Vivio, even with my OC Syn being one herself. The more Vivio, the better.
*Newtype flash* I may be getting a brainwave here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshouryuu View Post
This is a crackish idea I have thought up. It is not particularly well written but Aaron008R persuaded me that you guys should have a look.
Spoiler for Prologue or Madness:
Thoughts?
I may have little experience with fics but this one is definitely PURE AWESOME MATERIAL!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Artherion: [Statement: Greetings, is there someone you need killed, master?]
Artherion is scary...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Yes, it counts as a magical attack.

That means AMF the sucker and it's useless.
I was afraid that it could nullify the AMF of something like the Cradle. That would have made it overly powerful. Guess my worries were for nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Elric: Define 'favorable outcome', Carnage.

Cernage: [They all die.]
There seem to be several dangerous AIs around... Got to be careful where I tread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
The idea is a sword which acts as a sort of magical battery, constantly draining magic from the atmosphere to charge itself. This charge is used to enhance the sharpness of the blade to absurd levels (at maximum charge, it can sever molecular bonds and cut through solid blocks of just about any metal you can imagine) or the stored magic can be discharged as a single (or a few, haxx-dependent) S-rank spell with no charge time or strain on Alex's linker core. Doing this reduces the sharpness of the blade to normal levels for about 24 hours until the blade recharges itself. Other than this, it acts as a fairly standard intelligent device. Due to its' distinctive appearance, Alex refrains from using this prior to his unveiling of his identity during the HQ attack, and only breaks it out when he really needs to bust some heads. Otherwise, he uses his armor device to dispatch "lesser" foes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I don't have much complaint against the sword being able to cut through metal (concidering we've already seen canon swords do the same) as long as it can't just cut through other magical Devices. The S-rank blast, I suggest you limit a bit. No charge time is good, concidering the sword already charged itself, but don't remove the strain of casting an S-rank spell.
In addition to what Keroko mentioned, some strain on the sword could also be introduced. Think of it as transferring some of the strain of the spell from the linker core to the sword itself. A possible result of this could be that the sword has an increased tendacy to break. This is just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
...

<.<

>.>

*Drops package and runs*

Spoiler for HQ Attack Details:
I do not have any problems against this scenario.
Just two words, poor numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
All in all, most of what you posted are either swords, axes, or clubs. You can change the individual design styles, give them fancy names, and all that, but they're still just swords, axes, and clubs.
Basically, thats just what we have to work on. Unless of course, we start coming up with devices that do not look like weapons at all. (Teapots with AI, anyone?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Now if you want my oppinion... I haven't really seen anyone using a full on SPEAR. (I'm sure you guys have some spear users running around, I just haven't payed enough attention to it.) Raising Heart does a Spear-like attack in Excellion form, but that's about all I've seen. But there's one thing to be said about a spear user... They know what they're doing, and are probably the most dangerous melee fighter on the field. With a combination of long reach, the abillity to pierce, and allowing the fighter to put their weight behind it, a decent Spear user would probably give the melee fighters a run for their money.
You seem to like spears a lot. As for spear users, Mirron is working on a spear-wielding OC. Just to point him out to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
How does having Hayate have good melee skills "screw over the system"? Her title of Mage-Knight indicates a mastery of both Mid and Belka systems, so why the heck wouldn't she be able to hold her own in melee?

Recall that one of the big points of Comcanon is to de-shaft Hayate and rid her of the glass cannon image, and there's no better way to do that than to show that she can tangle with the best of the best in melee and at range.
Perhaps Hayate could be decent enough at melee to create enough distance between herself and Zest to hit him hard enough with a barrage of mid range spells? Just my opinion again.

*Backlog Breaker finished*

Man, this thread is growing at an extremely fast rate.

(Then again, you guys made the last thread over 1200 pages long in one year... Cadia never ceases to amaze me)
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Old 2008-06-27, 10:14   Link #1955
Kha
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Yes indeed that's one way, and there's really nothing wrong with that. You gave her better melee skills. Aaron made her access her spells faster; reduce the cast time, more spells fired off, better close quarter viability.

My take has my own thinking, as well as the impression I get (with lots of vibing from our resident Hayate (s)expert. <.<) from the others about this, is to have Hayate adapt her current style of combat to better combat melee.

The cool thing about Hayate is that she has access to Frost attacks, and that scores a lot of points in Person vs Person (PVP) with the ability to slow even freeze her opponents in place. And on top of that, dark sneaky Shadow spells (as well as ZOMGTHATSBIG ones). All this is very tasty in that Hayate has potential to have very good "crowd control" in the form of in-flavor snare spells.

But I did modify more than 1 aspect. I agree with Aaron's idea, and I did consider giving Hayate an ability to instantly cast a spell prepared before-hand, so I've borrowed that (along with Grandis, despite my preference for Hayaurion. ).

Earlier, in Cente Gravia, we will see Hayate asking for help about melee. It's to put her "I suck at CQC" comment in perspective; she is just very easy to manipulate into being "caught flatfooted". That is one of the hardest parts about melee combat, and it takes time to not get checkmated; but unlike the other 4 Aces, she did not have the previous exposure. She's just an otaku who woke up one day and discovered that her being a magical girl was no dream. This I believe is really why Hayate doesn't excel in CQC, and 10 years isn't much, especially when you've spent most of it passing command aptitude tests and academia.

So its not that she can't really clash blades, I believe with her enhanced body and exposure she could easily bat aside spells and weapon swings, and outfight an unboosted human. However, when you get to the other skilled Belka, or the veteran Midchilda officer, that's when her lack shows up. Giving her a suddenly a great strength in melee while not really gimping her nukability might not work as well, given her short life spent so far.

To be honest, a Caro VS Hayate CQC match will either end in hilarity (both sides tripping over themselves), in a tickling fest (no strength to inflict damage), or Hayate wins by overpowering Caro (she's both taller and bigger than Caro) or Caro boosts herself and overpowers Hayate with brute force. In other words, even when tested, you can't take it seriously.

But this is just my $0.02. Do what you wish.
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Old 2008-06-27, 10:26   Link #1956
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Hell, yes.

My gamemaster has gone in despair when his four onis went down because I one-shot them all. (I rolled lots of 10s that night, it was the old L5R system, not D20)

And I gained honor points because my friends all ran away, leaving me, the tank, to deal with the onis.

Now he thinks twice before throwing monsters at me lightly.
I always like to play with the 'big stupid fighter' generalisation. I once made a smart fighter, who's main skills were centered around knowledge checks instead of the usuall climb/tumble/perception etc. Everyone looked weird at me untill we got assigned a mission to go to an ancient ruin, nobody knew where or what it was, so I rolled a knowledge check to find out if I knew. Totally not expecting that one, the GM frantically checked what the DC was, and it turned out I beat the DC to the point where I knew exactly what it was, where it was, and what its current state was.

In the end, it turned out that the GM's idea was for us to find out, and eventually end up in the library where we would have to go through quite a lot of trouble before we were given the needed info. I circumvented that entire step completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazenoyuuchi View Post
There sure are a lot of characters already created!
Makes me want to create an OC...
Then do it, we all want to see your OC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazenoyuuchi View Post
Tri-Ace??? Whats that???
Myself, Aaron and Kha are some of the biggest fans of Nanoha, Hayate and Fate in the thread respectively. I'm huge Nanoha fan, even though Vivio is currently a bit higher on my favourite character list. Aaron is a huge Hayate fan, and Kha is a huge Fate fan. When we got a series of avatars reflecting our favourite characters, we were kinda dubbed 'the three Aces of AF'

Now every time me, Aaron and Kha post in succesion, its like the three Aces of the TSAB posted. Hence, tri-ace breaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazenoyuuchi View Post
*Newtype flash* I may be getting a brainwave here!
Then go and write, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazenoyuuchi View Post
Artherion is scary...
Scary, but morbidly amusing.
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Old 2008-06-27, 10:30   Link #1957
krisslanza
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Keroko has no response to my plotting with Vivio though...
Or maybe the thought is simply too terrifying
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Old 2008-06-27, 10:37   Link #1958
PhoenixG
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Oh. Right.
Why DID you call me that anyway?
Well Kha proclaims that your the emperor of Belka/saint church or whatever it was, but I refused that and dubbed you as DG of yakyuken :P
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Old 2008-06-27, 10:43   Link #1959
Keroko
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Keroko has no response to my plotting with Vivio though...
Or maybe the thought is simply too terrifying
Nya? *scrolls back up*

Must have missed that, could you fill me in?
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Old 2008-06-27, 10:47   Link #1960
krisslanza
Sleep beneath the flowers
 
 
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Originally Posted by PhoenixG View Post
Well Kha proclaims that your the emperor of Belka/saint church or whatever it was, but I refused that and dubbed you as DG of yakyuken :P
Oh. I see.
I suppose either way I'm above you in status... >:3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Nya? *scrolls back up*

Must have missed that, could you fill me in?
It was back on page 96 You said anyone was free to pair Vivio up with someone or something... It sounded like an invitation so...
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