AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Notices

View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 78 50.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 23.08%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 13.46%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 7.05%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.28%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 2.56%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.64%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.92%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-07-01, 22:07   Link #461
stray
aniki
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Send a message via AIM to stray
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I need an eye catching thread title if I'm going to do it, I don't think "Nanase the worthless big titted character" would work...
lol. OK, I did it. y'all better back me up
stray is offline  
Old 2008-07-01, 22:20   Link #462
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
lol. OK, I did it. y'all better back me up
Where?!

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2008-07-01, 22:36   Link #463
lone_wolf
bike mechanic onna
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Somewhere in California
Age: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Where?!

- Tak

I just passed by the Macross World forum and saw it there.


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
__________________
===================
Wolfie's Online Portfolio
http://www.wolfies-den.com/

Projekt MUSE is Back! Girls, Guns, Mecha and More!
http://www.projektmuse.com/

Lone Wolf's World of Popculture Goodies
Latest news on Comics, Manga, Anime, Video Game, Etc...
http://www.lw-concepts.com/lw
lone_wolf is offline  
Old 2008-07-01, 22:44   Link #464
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Bah, that was a lot less inflammatory than I imagined! You can do better than that, Stray!

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2008-07-01, 22:53   Link #465
ickem
シェリルの為に!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Bah, that was a lot less inflammatory than I imagined! You can do better than that, Stray!

- Tak
Well it would get locked pretty quickly if it were overtly inflammatory . There is plenty of time for it to descend into all out Nanase bashing.
ickem is offline  
Old 2008-07-01, 23:58   Link #466
stray
aniki
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Send a message via AIM to stray
Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I thought the polar opposite of love is apathy? Like I said, fear stems from different types of emotions. Keyword is "most of the time," but definitely not always. Fear and love can be in the same page.
mmmm... depends on your school of thought, I suppose. I guess whether you're talking about romantic love or... I dunno... ethereal love I suppose. Although at the end of the day they're basically the same side of the same coin.

Regardless, if anyone is acting on fear this round, I'd have to say its Sheryl and not Ranka.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Bah, that was a lot less inflammatory than I imagined! You can do better than that, Stray!

- Tak
I know I know I'm not good with inflammatory tho. Snide sarcasm and juvenile puns, I can do tho... albeit with varying degrees of success
stray is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 00:56   Link #467
wretchedworm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
SDF1!!!!! Global!!!!!
oh man, this sure brings back memories.
How i wish frontier will also shed light on megaroad1.
I miss misa.
wretchedworm is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 02:19   Link #468
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
lol. OK, I did it. y'all better back me up
Not only did I just bash Nanase I also pimped Sekirei As far as big breated girls with glasses... Matsu (Aya Endo!) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nanase
Westlo is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 08:43   Link #469
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
This episodes rating, it did air a few hours later than normal.

*1.5%(*2.0%) 06/28 (Sat) *3:30am-*4:00am TBS Macross FRONTIER

On another note the MW Nanase faction didn't put up much of a fight... but I guess you really can't defend her too much since she's done nothing. Than again her doing nothing is one of the more used defenses I've seen for her lol... but that's the problem!
Westlo is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 09:50   Link #470
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
In before Episode 13.

Frontier

Zero


Same background

Can we expect Zero dogfight?
ReddyRedWolf is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 10:09   Link #471
Swampstorm
Lovestruck Fool?
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
My bad, I shouldn't have ridden with you since you just colored my sentence in a different light. This is what happened here.

Ranka only took action because she wanted to secure Alto. = Making someone look like a possessive, clingy girl who has no feelings for that particular someone.

Ranka took action because she doesn't want to lose the guy she likes to Sheryl. = What the story just implied. If you love someone, of course you'd want to hold onto him. She hasn't even done anything to start with.

For the record, fear stems from all sorts of emotions, even from love. It's not always right to separate the two because they can be related.
Although you changed the sentence around, you didn't change its meaning at all.

Interestingly, the phrase "hold on to" has the same meaning as the word "cling". Euphemism, perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I thought the polar opposite of love is apathy?
The opposite of apathy is intense feeling or interest, but love isn't necessarily intense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Like I said, fear stems from different types of emotions. Keyword is "most of the time," but definitely not always. Fear and love can be in the same page.
Fear doesn't stem from love, but it often pops up around it, when we're still feeling insecure. But fear can also be found even in the complete absence of love, as well. So it can't indicate anything about love.
__________________

Last edited by Swampstorm; 2008-07-02 at 10:40.
Swampstorm is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 10:42   Link #472
Aquifina
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Although you changed the sentence around, you didn't change it's meaning at all.

Interestingly, the phrase "hold on to" has the same meaning as the word "cling". Euphemism, perhaps?

The opposite of apathy is intense feeling or interest, but love isn't necessarily intense.

Fear doesn't stem from love, but it often pops up around it, when we're still feeling insecure. But fear can also be found even in the complete absence of love, as well. So it can't indicate anything about love.
Swamp, with all due respect, I think you're seriously overthinking this. Perhaps the most loving married couple I know includes some real jealousy--and what is jealousy if it doesn't include fear of loss? And "love isn't necessarily intense"? I'm not persuaded by that statement, *and* I definitely think it doesn't apply to romantic love, which is the issue in play.

Yes, fear doesn't necessarily equal love, but it's certainly one legitimate sign of it. And it doesn't include the pejorative connotations of possessiveness that you attach to it. It's not like Ranka has made ultimatums to Alto about never seeing Sheryl again. Or demanded that he resign from SMS. And in the larger context of Ranka's actions in the series, I think it's pretty goshdarn sure that Ranka loves Alto. Is she the best match for Alto? That's a different debate.
Aquifina is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 11:22   Link #473
Mecha_Trueno
餓鬼に興味ない、俺の好みは年上の美女だ
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shitty old London. They must've been on drugs when they built this place, WTF were they smoking!!!
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Not only did I just bash Nanase I also pimped Sekirei As far as big breated girls with glasses... Matsu (Aya Endo!) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nanase
i always wondered actually. is it some tradition that the meganekko is the one with the big breast
examples that come to mind right away: nanase as mentioned above; miyuki (lucky star); sanae (sumomo mo momo mo): the sensei from maharomatic (cant remember her name); aoi (myself;yourself); mizuho-sensei (onegai teacher)...
im sure there are more, these are just the ones i can think of straight away.
__________________

禁則事項です
Mecha_Trueno is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 11:50   Link #474
Swampstorm
Lovestruck Fool?
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
Swamp, with all due respect, I think you're seriously overthinking this. Perhaps the most loving married couple I know includes some real jealousy--and what is jealousy if it doesn't include fear of loss?
There's nothing unusual or 'wrong' about jealousy in relationships. As I mentioned earlier, it's just a product of our insecurities (not that we shouldn't work to overcome them, of course). What I'm discussing here is "intent".

We build relationships with others out of our interest in them, not based on our desire to retain their interest in us. So if Ranka is taking steps to enter into a relationship for the purpose of retaining Alto's interest, as ani_d is suggesting, then she would be doing it for the wrong reasons. If, by contrast, she had always wanted to be in a relationship with Alto, and Sheryl had nothing to do with it, then it's a completely different story. To date, the focus has been more on Ranka's reactions, rather than her feelings, so I don't know for certain, either way.

I'm not sure if I'm communicating this properly. Perhaps I'll have to think of an analogy or an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
And "love isn't necessarily intense"? I'm not persuaded by that statement, *and* I definitely think it doesn't apply to romantic love, which is the issue in play.
That thing that you call "intensity" is just a reaction. What happens when the initial thrill subsides, as it inevitably does over time? Do you love the person any less?

The problem that many people run into is they find the first intense, positive emotion that they encounter and label it as "love". Then they latch on to the person who supplies them with that reaction until it runs out.

You can't feel intensely about anything for an extended period of time. Pleasure is temporary, but love is constant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
Yes, fear doesn't necessarily equal love, but it's certainly one legitimate sign of it.
A sign ceases to be a sign if it's ambiguous. If fear signifies everything, then it also signifies nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
And it doesn't include the pejorative connotations of possessiveness that you attach to it.
As I said before, there's nothing 'wrong' with fear, jealousy, possessiveness, or anything of the sort. Just because you love someone doesn't negate all the negative emotions inside of you.

What I am saying is that the existance of these negative emotions doesn't tell you anything about whether people love each other. There's plenty of fear to be had in the world, even without discussing the issue of love.

Just as a side note, I'm not trying to imply anything here. I'm just analysing what's been said.
__________________
Swampstorm is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 12:26   Link #475
kilroy0097
Michiko Malandro = Sexy
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bryan/College Station, Texas USA
Age: 39
Macross Frontier Romance is going to need more than a single thread if this keeps up with every single episode. It's going to need it's own sub-forum before things are done.

Sheryl has a crush on Alto. She attempted to make it more than a crush during the filming. Ranka has a crush on Alto and doesn't know how to take it to the next step due to her inexperience. Sheryl is closer to Alto in age and mentality while Ranka is still a kid in comparison. In the real real world Sheryl wins out due to her age, personality and likelihood to have an actual relationship with Alto. However this is an anime and we know reality and logic rarely if ever come into play.

I'm enjoying the story regardless and I like to route for the underdog even if the likelihood of the underdog winning is slight to none.

Go Ranka! ^_^
kilroy0097 is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 13:53   Link #476
stray
aniki
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Send a message via AIM to stray
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
We build relationships with others out of our interest in them, not based on our desire to retain their interest in us. So if Ranka is taking steps to enter into a relationship for the purpose of retaining Alto's interest, as ani_d is suggesting, then she would be doing it for the wrong reasons. If, by contrast, she had always wanted to be in a relationship with Alto, and Sheryl had nothing to do with it, then it's a completely different story. To date, the focus has been more on Ranka's reactions, rather than her feelings, so I don't know for certain, either way.
I think people are reading way too much into Ranka's intentions on this one on both sides of the coin. I do agree with most of your points in principle, Swampstorm, but I don't really think they apply here. I mean, you can read into it that Ranka was afraid to lose Alto, but really, the way she's been presented up until now... I think she just loves him (and I'm not even really talking about romantically) enough and wants him to be safe to the point of risking her own life rocketing across the galaxy to save him (and Sheryl... but regardless). Not to mention Alto bailed on her First Live! to go to Gallia 4, and for all she knew, it was a romantic getaway for the 2 of them.

Quote:
That thing that you call "intensity" is just a reaction. What happens when the initial thrill subsides, as it inevitably does over time? Do you love the person any less?

The problem that many people run into is they find the first intense, positive emotion that they encounter and label it as "love". Then they latch on to the person who supplies them with that reaction until it runs out.
You could apply alot of that to Sheryl's situation... honestly with more parallels than to Ranka's.

Quote:
As I said before, there's nothing 'wrong' with fear, jealousy, possessiveness, or anything of the sort. Just because you love someone doesn't negate all the negative emotions inside of you.

What I am saying is that the existance of these negative emotions doesn't tell you anything about whether people love each other. There's plenty of fear to be had in the world, even without discussing the issue of love.
Sadly, alot of people confuse the negative as being signs of real feelings. Maybe an attitude like... "if someone's not jealous, they must not really love me." That's beside the point though.

Anyway, I'm not shipping Ranka per se, but her heart is definitely in the right place, IMO, and I can't say the same for Sheryl. There's still a long way to go for that to change, though...
stray is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 16:26   Link #477
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecha_Trueno View Post
i always wondered actually. is it some tradition that the meganekko is the one with the big breast
examples that come to mind right away: nanase as mentioned above; miyuki (lucky star); sanae (sumomo mo momo mo): the sensei from maharomatic (cant remember her name); aoi (myself;yourself); mizuho-sensei (onegai teacher)...
im sure there are more, these are just the ones i can think of straight away.
I can think of a few girls with glasses and small breasts. Hasegawa from AMG, Nagato from SHnY, Shirai from KnJ (though that one also features a glasses girl with a big chest).
Anh_Minh is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 16:28   Link #478
Swampstorm
Lovestruck Fool?
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
I think people are reading way too much into Ranka's intentions on this one on both sides of the coin. I do agree with most of your points in principle, Swampstorm, but I don't really think they apply here. I mean, you can read into it that Ranka was afraid to lose Alto, but really, the way she's been presented up until now... I think she just loves him (and I'm not even really talking about romantically) enough and wants him to be safe to the point of risking her own life rocketing across the galaxy to save him (and Sheryl... but regardless). Not to mention Alto bailed on her First Live! to go to Gallia 4, and for all she knew, it was a romantic getaway for the 2 of them.
Oh, I'm sure that Ranka cares about Alto quite a bit. We know that he's both her closest friend and advisor to her.

But it's hard to tell if she ever wanted anything different in the first place. There are many strong postive relationships that are quite different from love. I'd hope, for example, that she'd be equally willing to save Ozma, or perhaps even Nanase, assuming that they were close enough.

Even if Ranka isn't truly interested in romance, one question that could potentially still worry her is: If Alto falls in love with someone else, will she lose her best friend? That's not an easy thought for anyone to cope with. But it doesn't have to be that way, even outside of a romantic relationship.

I don't need proof that Ranka cares, since I'm confident of that much. What I'd like to know is what she's really looking for in her relationship with Alto, be it love or friendship. But that's not an issue that can be revealed instantaneously, so I guess I'll have to be patient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
You could apply alot of that to Sheryl's situation... honestly with more parallels than to Ranka's.
On a first glance, I would have probably agreed with you. But let me see if I can explain the distinctions.

First, all of the groundwork for the relationship was made purely out of Sheryl's own interest. While her earring initially brought Sheryl into close proximity with Alto, her interest in him as a person lead her in turn to learn more about him.

While most of the fun that Sheryl has with Alto in those early stages comes out as friendly banter, there are also more thoughtful moments where she listens to what he says and observes his responses, while giving him serious replies of her own. This sort of intellectual partnership isn't really necessary for a romantic relationship, but it serves as the basis for how Sheryl understands Alto. This is vital, since romantic love cannot exist without first having understanding.

Another important step is in episode eight, where Sheryl first takes an interest in Alto's school, and then in his passion for flying. When you're in a relationship simply for the thrill of it, the focus is mainly on your own emotions. But here, Sheryl instead takes the time to try to understand Alto on an emotional level. Nor is this a frivolous interest, either: Michael notes how hard Sheryl has been trying to excel in her piloting classes in episode eleven.

Perhaps the most significant progress of all comes from episode eleven and twelve, though. At this point, Sheryl does more than simply understanding Alto's feelings; rather, she attends to them as if they were her own. She sees the events in her own life in terms of how they can benefit his, which allows her to come up with her gift. We see Sheryl become happy at the thought of making Alto happy. Sheryl too feels excitement over breaking the news to Alto, even as he himself does. Finally, when she falls sick, Sheryl feels immense sorrow at being unable to help Alto achieve his dream; moreso perhaps than even Alto himself (and without even first stopping to consider how devastating the situation is to herself). That point right there, where you let another person become so important to you that they become a part of you - that's love.

I only wish that we could see relationships of this caliber more often, in stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
Anyway, I'm not shipping Ranka per se, but her heart is definitely in the right place, IMO, and I can't say the same for Sheryl. There's still a long way to go for that to change, though...
Well, you have to remember that we've already got a pretty good idea that Ranka is a hero in this story. So no matter what she does, you can be absolutely sure that she'll be back on the straight and narrow by the very end.

But what of Sheryl? Is she hero, tragic hero, anti-hero, or villain? The role that she has yet to play in this story is probably still the least clear out of the three main characters, so it's only natural for us to be unsure of her. Not to mention the fact that her chief advisor seems to have turned to the dark side.

If I had to go by first impressions, I'd say that her fame, success, and influence are all major strikes against her, as far as our natural tendancies to trust are concerned. But as far as Sheryl's strength of character goes, I'd say that she's easily one of the strongest female leads that I've seen in a romance series since... Madoka from KOR. It's tricky, because I'm torn between my innate skepticism and bias against her 'type' of character and my awe for the character that she's actually become.

So it's a bit tough for me, too, because I also feel the need to second guess Sheryl's actions, even in spite of everything that we've seen. But while I can see plenty of ways that she can still go astray, she hasn't let me down yet (please don't let me down!)
__________________

Last edited by Swampstorm; 2008-07-02 at 16:46.
Swampstorm is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 20:28   Link #479
stray
aniki
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Send a message via AIM to stray
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
I don't need proof that Ranka cares, since I'm confident of that much. What I'd like to know is what she's really looking for in her relationship with Alto, be it love or friendship. But that's not an issue that can be revealed instantaneously, so I guess I'll have to be patient.
That's one thing that's really kind of endearing to me about Ranka... whatever it ends up being it seems like she's just happy Alto is in her life.

Quote:
Perhaps the most significant progress of all comes from episode eleven and twelve, though. At this point, Sheryl does more than simply understanding Alto's feelings; rather, she attends to them as if they were her own. She sees the events in her own life in terms of how they can benefit his, which allows her to come up with her gift. We see Sheryl become happy at the thought of making Alto happy. Sheryl too feels excitement over breaking the news to Alto, even as he himself does. Finally, when she falls sick, Sheryl feels immense sorrow at being unable to help Alto achieve his dream; moreso perhaps than even Alto himself (and without even first stopping to consider how devastating the situation is to herself). That point right there, where you let another person become so important to you that they become a part of you - that's love.
To be fair, it was a badass gift. I don't really want to call it insincere, necessarily, since I don't think that's the case per se, but I really feel like it was alot more selfish than most people seem to think. Someone a few pages back dropped the old "if you love something, set it free" cliche with regard to Ranka... but, when push comes to shove, Sheryl knew all about Ranka's ticket for Alto. It's pretty clear she came up with the idea after finding this out, and she's forcing the issue, knowing that she's sick, too, and unwilling to back down. I don't blame her really; but her plan wasn't any less doomed to fail horribly. Although ep 12 brought new meaning to the term failure...

Which isn't to say Sheryl deserved to fail, or she doesn't care about Alto, or that she's subverting Ranka or something. I think... hrm. Let me think of how to put this succinctly...

The present isn't really for Alto, it's for her. She's so shelled up, so "Sheryl Nome," so aloof, tsun tsun, etc. that the only way she can really let her guard down and let Alto know she's falling in love with him (especially with Ranka there) is to do something that completely over the top perfect that Alto would end up a dere dere mess of bishonen manliness flying around the skies of Gallia 4. And that's exactly why she fucked up so spectacularly.

I don't think Sheryl is any less awesome, mind you. Although maybe next time, she'll stick to cookies too...
stray is offline  
Old 2008-07-02, 20:40   Link #480
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Funny how she was also talking about cookies metaphorically in her latest blog. . .

Have you guys noticed, that while Ranka is actively pursuing Alto, and does a terrible job in hiding her feelings about him, Sheryl on the other hand, is reluctant, but unconsciously being drawn into the fray? .

Slowly but surely, her feelings begin to develop for him. Now she is probably at a stage where she is wondering "why is it hurting so much inside. . ."

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.