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Old 2008-07-03, 03:25   Link #481
cheesie
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Wish everyone would, you know... have a good dose of STFU. (But that's just me.)
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Old 2008-07-03, 03:39   Link #482
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
You are a real work of art my friend. I'm not surprised by your posts though, considering earlier ones I've read from you. I'll just be simple, as it's late, and most everyone else has already posted my thoughts in their own way.

Ranka pops up and saves the day, and all she can think about is Alto.
Yeah, to her, he's the most important hostage. Do you fault her for that? What would you have her do? See that Alto was fine, and then dash out to see everyone? She's not that strong. In the shelter, she couldn't let go of Alto's shirt. And there, her legs gave out. Alto can get out of a firefight and act like it was nothing. She can't. So?

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Sheryl, and the other hostages could have been dead for all she knew. She never is shown to give one THOUGHT about anybody else, but Alto. This is not the first time in the series, she has shown this type of thinking(episode 7 when she finds out Alto and her brother are fighting in space anyone?). Also, her gifts, are gifts that she herself would want from someone. She hasn't considered what the receiver of the gifts would think, or she just assumes that whatever she likes, they would like. Not a true gift...
What are you talking about? She even put in extra effort to make plane shaped cookies for him. Sure, it shows little imagination and knowledge of Alto, but she did her best. Sorry it doesn't come up to your standards. Not everyone can offer a guy a leisure trip of several light years.

And, yes, maybe Alto would have hated her music. I mean, so far, he's been mostly supportive of her singing, but hey. But don't you think he'd have been more hurt if she'd offerend tickets to everyone but him?

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Sheryl on the other hand, came up with a gift idea, that she KNEW without a doubt that Also would like.
Yeah, Sheryl has opportunities Ranka doesn't. That's not really Ranka's fault. Well, maybe she should have been born a genius and a driven woman, and gotten to superstardom years prior. Yes, clearly, Ranka's an abominable little person.

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She knows him far better than Ranka does right now.
Among those opportunities is the opportunity to know Alto better. Part of that is, indeed, Ranka's fault. She's shy, while Sheryl isn't. You might even say Sheryl's pushy. The rest of that is, well, a matter of schedule. And influence. Ranka's time is not exactly her own, while Sheryl has much more control on her own agenda. And the ability to request Alto from SMS for whatever publicity stunt or whatever. (I understand why he'd shoot the ad with her. He's pretty and has acting experience. But what was he doing with her on the island? Personal manservent?)

I'm not saying Ranka's blameless, or trying to make light of Sheryl's qualities. Ranka is, as I said, shy. She lacks self-confidence. She's also much more likely to talk than to listen. Especially if the guy is, well, taciturn. Partly out of a belief that everyone in the world but her has his life together. She'd listen if he'd talk, but she wouldn't pry.

And Sheryl is, well, the Sheryl Nome. Driven, self-confident, and so on. She's also much more mature than either Ranka or Alto, and more perceptive. So, yes, it's no wonder she knows Alto better. But that doesn't make Ranka a bad person.

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She's also delirious from her illness, and not thinking completely straight in episode 12(have you ever had an extreme fever? You don't think clearly when your brain is cooking). She gets some sympathy in how she acted, because she's extremely sick. Ranka is not sick, and hasn't been shown to be sick so far in the series.
No, but she's been shown to be afraid. she's a timid girl, especially compared to Sheryl. And despite that fear, she went there and performed.

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I really hope Ranka grows up. Right now she's in the Minmei(series version) room, and that's not an area I had hoped she'd be in when I started watching this series(I've already explained my hatred for the series Minmei over the past 20+ years in earlier threads).


She could have shown more concern for Sheryl? How about just SOME concern for Sheryl. She showed absolutely NO concern for her. None. Zero. Zilch.
When? In the few seconds we saw her with Alto? Of course he was going going to monopolize her thoughts. Well, him and her pounding heart and jelly legs. It's not like it'd have even been polite to brush aside his concerns for her with questions about everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post

'I hope everyone's alright'
would suffice, too

This is getting ridiculous
That would have failed to convey how special to her Alto had become. Look, obviously, you don't agree with how they've presented things. But I don't get the feeling Ranka's the sort of person who doesn't care about anyone but herself and Alto.
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Old 2008-07-03, 03:39   Link #483
TwilightHack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
My point exactly. She's showing signs of Minmei all over again. And I hated Minmei.
Series Minmei sucked. DYRL Minmei was someone I could definitely vouch for.

In fact, I think I was a bit upset that DYRL Minmei had to suffer the heartbreak that time around even though I still liked Misa.

Come to think of it, Sheryl has some elements of DYRL Minmei.

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Originally Posted by crisis View Post
Wish everyone would, you know... have a good dose of STFU. (But that's just me.)


I admit, the debate is getting a bit out of hand.
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Old 2008-07-03, 03:41   Link #484
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
Care about your lover more than anyone # Only care about your love and no one else.

Ranka is the second case.
If a disaster happens, generally a person with a comfortable degree of seperation will express their hope that everyone is alright. If however there's someone they know involved with what happened, their concern will naturally be more specific. It's just how people are.

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If you take away her idol worship toward Sheryl then there's no feeling left in their relationship because Ranka never, ever concern about Sheryl as a friend. There's only admiration and jealousy.
Completely agree, except for the jealousy. The writers have been careful to never show Ranka as petty. She's almost unbelieveable in that regard.

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If Sheryl wasn't sick then Ranka would still be moping on Frontier now. So who had better luck?
Ranka has never moped.

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Since Sheryl has collapsed because of trying too hard to give Alto the opportunity to fly and Ranka went through dangers to save Alto and deliver him her gift, I would say they made equal efforts.
We don't know what's wrong with Sheryl. Given how Alto accused her of lazing about, I doubt it was from "trying too hard". Ranka not only risked her life, she did something very few people had ever really tried for the first time. I mean, do you think she was not aware of the QR putting her in it's gunsights? It wasn't being subtle you know.

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She likes Alto, that's for sure, but her life isn't revolving around Alto. She also doesn't seek Alto and ask for his advices for every turn of her life, unlike a certain someone.
We're treated to Ranka constantly lamenting Alto-kun with internal monologues, but that's because the story is more often than not being told from her perspective. Have we ever had an internal monologue from Sheryl? I can't recall such a thing.

As for who's more Alto-centric, realistically it's Sheryl. He's the only person she's remotely close to, and aside from being a stooge for the government, Sheryl's only invested in Galaxy's fate which involves her past and the future of the series, both of which haven't been explored yet. Ranka on the other hand has her career, and lots of people around her that she's aquainted with, even if they're not exactly close to them.

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It would be nice if Ranka said, "Ne Alto, didn't you go here with Sheryl? Where is her?"
There's such a thing as being caught in the moment. Add in the fact that Ranka is gradually losing her Idol-worship of Sheryl as she comes into her own, it's not surprising Ranka wouldn't think about her. Since they aren't friends you know.

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As I said, Sheryl showed support and give advice to a complete stranger who had the capability to become her rival in the future. Because she's confident like that. So I say Sheryl concerned about a stranger/rival even more than Ranka ever concerned about her idol.
It's not concern. It's probably a combination of sympathy, projection, and bemusement. Sheryl probably enjoys the hell out of throwing inspiring words at Ranka, who just laps it up like a dog.
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Old 2008-07-03, 03:51   Link #485
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Love can happen very quickly. I'd say she at least has intense feelings for him bordering on love.
I think she doesn't know what she feels. She's interested, but Sheryl's forcing her to be more interested than she otherwise would be.

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Her conversation with him before the concert in Ep7 or 6 can't remember which. He does open up and let her into his head a bit. Especially about his feelings about being trapped on Frontier. But this is only real time we see that open with her as he normally presents his aloof side. All the rest of the information she gets about him come from other sources. She was a judge with his father so she figured out about his past from that most likely. And that information doesn't really shed much light on to his problems. Everyone knows that he has a excessive love of flying.
There's knowing things about someone and then there's knowing them. Sheryl's got Ranka trumped on both counts, but as you said Sheryl's got sources and has monopolized Alto's time when he's not flying for the SMS.

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Grace was poisoning her. That I'm pretty certain of. Doesn't mean her actions weren't true to her character.
I agree.

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PR reasons yes I bet that was the reason she just happened to join Alto's school right after going on a date with him and kiss him on the cheek. Her looks in Ep10, Ep11, and 12 give a fairly good impression of jealousy. We don't get any interior monologues from her like we do Ranka but it pretty clear whats going on.
It wasn't explicitedly stated in episode 8, but the following episodes showed her doing PR work that involved the school's piloting program. You know, so that Galaxy isn't forgotten by the rubes that are Frontier's citizens.

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Hikaru was an idiot too but Minmei was just plain self-centered. If you watch the entire series you'll understand.
Hikaru was confused. Wouldn't say he was an idiot. Really, hate on Minmei and adoration of Misa, I don't get either from what I've seen so far.
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Old 2008-07-03, 04:27   Link #486
Westlo
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Wesley your comment comes across like this "I've watched 45 episodes of Bleach, why do Bleach fans think Aizen's an awesome bad guy, he's not even a badguy!!??".

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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
Series Minmei sucked. DYRL Minmei was someone I could definitely vouch for.

In fact, I think I was a bit upset that DYRL Minmei had to suffer the heartbreak that time around even though I still liked Misa.

Come to think of it, Sheryl has some elements of DYRL Minmei.
While Sheryl is Sheryl, she does come across as a mixture of Misa Hayase and DYRL Minmei which I must say is a perfect match.
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Old 2008-07-03, 04:32   Link #487
Terra
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Sheryl gave him tickets to her farewell concert. It's somehow wrong for Ranka to present for her debut? Besides, Ranka wanted to take the oppurtunity to personally express herself to him, and have some alone time to get more aquainted with eachother.
There's a difference in what those tickets were used for. Ranka is using them as the main part of her present for Alto's birthday. Sheryl's were a thank you for the day out the had together. A day that at the time probably would have been either the last or second to last time they potentially ever saw each other. It was the only thing at the time she could offer. Unlike Ranka who lives on the same fleet as Alto and has friends who are also his friends and could help her with her decisions. Using the Sheryl gave hm tickets response doesn't work snce it's totally different circumstances. Now if the had been presented in the same way, then yes it could. But they weren't.
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Old 2008-07-03, 04:39   Link #488
TwilightHack
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
While Sheryl is Sheryl, she does come across as a mixture of Misa Hayase and DYRL Minmei which I must say is a perfect match.
Agreed, the best from both worlds.

Who could ask for more?
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Old 2008-07-03, 04:41   Link #489
Westlo
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Not I, not I!

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Originally Posted by Terra View Post
Using the Sheryl gave hm tickets response doesn't work snce it's totally different circumstances. Now if the had been presented in the same way, then yes it could. But they weren't.
Even though this is true it's not going to change anything, I mean somehow Sheryl going to a school which Ranka wasn't even attending until that day and talking to Alto is just as bad as Ranka in episode 12... Even though Sheryl actually thought of Ranka and tried to get her a leg up in the industry.. while Ranka didn't give a fuck about Sheryl period in 12.

@ani_d

May'n flopped back in 2005/2006 and Maaya Sakamoto is much more well known yet May'n did over 11k more in her opening week, May'n sales have come from Frontier, go look up the figures for past May'n singles... Also who's been singing the most in Frontier May'n or Megumi?

May'n

Don't Be Late 01, 07
What bout my star 01, 05
Diamond Crevasse 06
Infinity 07

ED for 2-6 & 8-9

Megumi

Aimo 03, 08, 12
My Boyfriend is a pilot 04
What bout my star 05
Infinity 07
Ninjiin Loves you Yeah 08
Nekko Nikki 09, 12
Interstellar Flight 12

ED for Deculture, 1, 7, 10-12

So both artists are using Frontier as their platform... Megumi actually voices a character unlike May'n and she's had more more of a push in the show as far as signing goes and yet she's down 8000 compared to May'n. Oh it must all be because of May'n fans who never existed when she tried to breakout in 2005!

Last edited by Westlo; 2008-07-03 at 05:13.
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Old 2008-07-03, 04:49   Link #490
Terra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Even though this is true it's not going to change anything, I mean somehow Sheryl going to a school which Ranka wasn't even attending until that day and talking to Alto is just as bad as Ranka in episode 12... Even though Sheryl actually thought of Ranka and tried to get her a leg up in the industry.. while Ranka didn't give a fuck about Sheryl period in 12.
I agree with the bit about Ranka showing zero concern for Sheryl there. She'd just seen the clip of Sheryl collapsing and her first thought was Alto. Not for her idol who'd she had just seen collapse. A little bit of concern there would have been nice. If it had just been a text message that just said something had happened with no details to Sheryl collapsing then I could have taken it better. But the total lack of concern for someone who she'd just seen collapse is pretty bad.
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Old 2008-07-03, 05:03   Link #491
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Wesley your comment comes across like this "I've watched 45 episodes of Bleach, why do Bleach fans think Aizen's an awesome bad guy, he's not even a badguy!!??".
Except people seem to have hated Minmei and loved Misa right off the bat. That's where my confusion comes in, because as near as I can tell is that so far Minmei's only guilty of sending mixed signals to Hikaru, while Misa let's things, small borderline insignificant things, effect her judgement. Badly that is.

Quote:
While Sheryl is Sheryl, she does come across as a mixture of Misa Hayase and DYRL Minmei which I must say is a perfect match.
I'd compare Sheryl to Misa only in that their storylines are both badly written.

Quote:
There's a difference in what those tickets were used for. Ranka is using them as the main part of her present for Alto's birthday. Sheryl's were a thank you for the day out the had together. A day that at the time probably would have been either the last or second to last time they potentially ever saw each other. It was the only thing at the time she could offer. Unlike Ranka who lives on the same fleet as Alto and has friends who are also his friends and could help her with her decisions. Using the Sheryl gave hm tickets response doesn't work snce it's totally different circumstances. Now if the had been presented in the same way, then yes it could. But they weren't.
Actually Ranka was giving him the tickets as a thank you for his part in the movie. She probably would have given them to him regardless of the fact it was his birthday or not. The real birthday present was obviously the invitation to meet her at the Observatory where she'd give him airplane cookies made with a questionable recipe.

And that Sheryl was leaving makes all the difference? What kind of reasoning is that?
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Old 2008-07-03, 05:09   Link #492
TwilightHack
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Except people seem to have hated Minmei and loved Misa right off the bat. That's where my confusion comes in, because as near as I can tell is that so far Minmei's only guilty of sending mixed signals to Hikaru, while Misa let's things, small borderline insignificant things, effect her judgement. Badly that is.

I'd compare Sheryl to Misa only in that their storylines are both badly written.
You don't understand because you haven't taken time to watch all of it.

I myself admit I was hard pressed to watch past a certain point in the original Macross, but when I got past that point I realized it was a treat. But really, before you start bashing stuff try to get grip on the information first.

Now go and watch, come back when you're finished. Maybe then you'll be able to put up a decent comeback.
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Old 2008-07-03, 05:09   Link #493
Westlo
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^ You're dealing with the guy who disagreed that Minmei was the inspiration for Lacus Clyne even though the director of SEED said so... and he hadn't even watched an episode of Macross at the point.

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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Except people seem to have hated Minmei and loved Misa right off the bat.
How did you draw that conclusion when you started watching a 25 year old show a few weeks ago? Most of the hate for Minmei is from people who have finished the show when it aired as Robotech in the late eighties or who saw it in its original form after that. You should already be seeing the warning signs, Kaifun (god this character was worthless... he's like the Macross version of you j/k : ) just makes things worst.

I'm starting to see the warning signs for Ranka... thankfully she has no Kaifun.

Quote:
That's where my confusion comes in, because as near as I can tell is that so far Minmei's only guilty of sending mixed signals to Hikaru, while Misa let's things, small borderline insignificant things, effect her judgement. Badly that is.
Just keep watching.

Quote:
I'd compare Sheryl to Misa only in that their storylines are both badly written.
I wouldn't expect you to get the comparisons and I suggest you wait until you finish watching both shows before you talk of badly written story lines.
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Old 2008-07-03, 05:30   Link #494
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
You don't understand because you haven't taken time to watch all of it.
I don't think I will because...

Quote:
I myself admit I was hard pressed to watch past a certain point in the original Macross, but when I got past that point I realized it was a treat. But really, before you start bashing stuff try to get grip on the information first.
I think I've reached that point. Besides, I've been spoiled to hell and back. Seriously, Minmei picks up some guy that abuses her? Lame...

Quote:
Now go and watch, come back when you're finished. Maybe then you'll be able to put up a decent comeback.
I'm not about to explain myself to you since you're not paying attention to the context.

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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
^ You're dealing with the guy who disagreed that Minmei was the inspiration for Lacus Clyne even though the director of SEED said so... and he hadn't even watched an episode of Macross at the point.
You were disagreeing with me that Gundam Seed was inspired in part by Star Wars so nyah.

Quote:
How did you draw that conclusion when you started watching a 25 year old show a few weeks ago? Most of the hate for Minmei is from people who have finished the show when it aired as Robotech in the late eighties or who saw it in its original form after that. You should already be seeing the warning signs, Kaifun (god this character was worthless... he's like the Macross version of you j/k : ) just makes things worst.
I wasn't the one who first mentioned Minmei. The one who did expressed having hatred of her right off the bat, and then some concured with the sentiment.

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Just keep watching.
I've given up since they ran out of ammo, while whatever it was they shooting at seemed to have disappeared just as they did.

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I wouldn't expect you to get the comparisons and I suggest you wait until you finish watching both shows before you talk of badly written story lines.
"I care so much about my earring/Galaxy, that I'll just pretend they don't exist/matter whenever it's convinent" vs. "My childhood crush died and traumatized me, so even though I'm now a grown woman with a long military career ahead of me, I'm going to just sit here and die even though my colleagues are yelling at me over the radio" also "Hey, that young pilot who keeps calling me old woman thinks I don't care about what happens to pilots because I'm supposedly safe and sound on the exposed bridge of a battleship. I think I'll just buzz around in a flying bullseye, while leaving myself convinently unguarded for easy capture. Just to show him!"
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Old 2008-07-03, 05:31   Link #495
TwilightHack
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
^ You're dealing with the guy who disagreed that Minmei was the inspiration for Lacus Clyne even though the director of SEED said so... and he hadn't even watched an episode of Macross at the point.


Quote:
You should already be seeing the warning signs, Kaifun (god this character was worthless... he's like the Macross version of you j/k : ) just makes things worst.

I'm starting to see the warning signs for Ranka... thankfully she has no Kaifun.
I hated Kaifun to the point I wanted to forget him. The whole Minmei x Kaifun interaction made me sick. In DYRL his character was pointless... but for what it's worth, better.

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I wouldn't expect you to get the comparisons and I suggest you wait until you finish watching both shows before you talk of badly written story lines.
Both shows meaning, "Super Dimensional Macross Fortress" and, "Super Dimensional Macross Fortress: Do You Remember Love?"

Not the dubs, the original jap track with subs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I don't think I will because...
Well its your loss. But even if you can't bear to watch the original for whatever reasons, at least give DYRL a chance. You might be surprised.

In any case, making harsh remarks after a half-assed attempt to watch what you're remarking about is pretty, irresponsible?
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Old 2008-07-03, 05:32   Link #496
ickem
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Kaifun (god this character was worthless... he's like the Macross version of you j/k : ) just makes things worst.

I'm starting to see the warning signs for Ranka... thankfully she has no Kaifun.
Ok I have to disagree with you on this point. Kaifun, but you should really call him by his true name, Kyle, was my favorite character in the original Macross. How can you not love a character than can entice a mob to shout "Go home!" with his dynamite charisma! He was anything but worthless. He stole the show in every episode that he appeared. Did you not see how his super powers frightened the Zentradis with Britai into turning against the main fleet? I wonder if Ranka is his descendant, what with the magical stars that she busted out in episode 12. Just look out the chaos that she created in the Zentradi ranks.

As for there not being a Kaifun in Frontier, I too lament at how the absence of such a wonderful character makes the show less appealing. But be not depressed for I see that the Kaifun's baton is slowly being taken up by the purple-haired uddergirl! It's only a matter of time until she starts downing the booze and yells for Sheryl to go home!
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Old 2008-07-03, 05:38   Link #497
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
You were disagreeing with me that Gundam Seed was inspired in part by Star Wars so nyah.
I'm reading this page, where do I disagree with you about Star Wars?

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...t=64735&page=9

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I wasn't the one who first mentioned Minmei. The one who did expressed having hatred of her right off the bat, and then some concured with the sentiment.
some =! all

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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
In any case, making harsh remarks after a half-assed attempt to watch what you're remarking about is pretty, irresponsible?
Considering he makes harsh remarks when he lacks comprehension and hasn't even seen the stuff, wouldn't this actually be him being responsible in his own way

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Originally Posted by ickem View Post
Did you not see how his super powers frightened the Zentradis with Britai into turning against the main fleet?
I have to admit I chuckled at this part of the post, okay.. I'll upgrade Kaifun from worthless to mostly worthless

Last edited by Westlo; 2008-07-03 at 05:48.
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Old 2008-07-03, 07:03   Link #498
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
In any case, making harsh remarks after a half-assed attempt to watch what you're remarking about is pretty, irresponsible?
I hardly make a half-assed attempt when I watch anything. I'm notorious for picking episodes apart afterall. Sometimes I do over extend myself, but it's usually out of boredom or spite. Spite of fanboys and fangirls and hypsters. Not to mention personal detractors.
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Old 2008-07-03, 07:22   Link #499
Tak
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I hardly make a half-assed attempt when I watch anything. I'm notorious for picking episodes apart afterall. Sometimes I do over extend myself, but it's usually out of boredom or spite. Spite of fanboys and fangirls and hypsters. Not to mention personal detractors.
But you do. We all noticed.

- Tak
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Old 2008-07-03, 07:24   Link #500
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
But you do. We all noticed.

- Tak
When specifically?

And if I do, lots of other people do as well. I'm not the only one who forgets scenes or lines from a show.
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