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Old 2008-07-03, 19:33   Link #3061
blitz1/2
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Zechs View Post
I can honestly say that I cannot stand Suzaku.

I dislike the fact that he believes himself to be always right in the regards that he will chance society from within. Well, he is in now, for the most part, and what exactly, has changed? There is simply just more war, and more territory being fought over, the difference now is that he is helping to sieze said territory.

I also cannot stand the fact that he sold Lelouch to the emperor, I mean, of all the things he could have done, that was a ridiculously low blow.
I know. Suzaku should have killed Lulu, now that is a high blow (and fair)
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Old 2008-07-03, 20:05   Link #3062
demon_god04
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
The difference being that there are about ten times more Lelouch supporters than Suzaku defenders, and that there is hardly a thread here safe from extreme Suzaku hate. Sometimes one even gets the impression that we should feel bad for even liking the character in the first place, so it does get tiring. Maybe that's why I may appear a bit harsh towards haters sometimes? ^^; I like people to at least try to be a little objective.

Wait, didn't we debate this only a few days ago? Because I recall disagreeing At least you're not completely ruling his method out
Well, that is true, you usually don't find many people who like Suzaku enough to defend him. Honestly Suzaku's hypocrisy annoyed me in R1, and now his indecisiveness annoys me in R2. Although neither have gotten to the point of outright hatred, I just find his method to be unrealistic with no real plan of action on his part other then vague intentions. My personal opinion is that if you can't do something better then someone else then you should not criticize their methods as wrong. Which was a major reason Suzaku annoyed me to no end in R1.

Probably, there aren't that many Suzaku defenders as you have said, and I don't exactly recall ever agreeing with you over this issue...ever.
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Old 2008-07-03, 20:48   Link #3063
yezhanquan
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I'm not a defender of Suzaku, but I don't hate him. Does that count?
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:00   Link #3064
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
I just find his method to be unrealistic with no real plan of action on his part other then vague intentions
Hmm, on that subject, I'm sort of wondering how he'll succeed at keeping his promise to Zero...
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:07   Link #3065
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku View Post
Hmm, on that subject, I'm sort of wondering how he'll succeed at keeping his promise to Zero...
He was in China until recently, and really I expect Nunally to be the one to keep that promise of protecting the Japanese that remain rather then Suzaku. Although I suppose Suzaku can surprise me, but so far in the series he hasn't been shown to be very good at taking the initiative and can be downright indecisive.

At the same time though I don't expect him to take any directly anti Japanese actions and with the Black Knights gone and the area peaceful I doubt he really has much to do to "protect" the Japanese other then maintain the status quo.
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:10   Link #3066
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
He was in China until recently, and really I expect Nunally to be the one to keep that promise of protecting the Japanese that remain rather then Suzaku. Although I suppose Suzaku can surprise me, but so far in the series he hasn't been shown to be very good at taking the initiative and can be downright indecisive.

At the same time though I don't expect him to take any directly anti Japanese actions and with the Black Knights gone and the area peaceful I doubt he really has much to do to "protect" the Japanese other then maintain the status quo.
Hmm, I guess so. Though I can't help but wonder what he'll do if a situation arises where he may have to take drastic measures to keep the promise - or if he makes some mistake which forces him to betray it...
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:16   Link #3067
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku View Post
Hmm, I guess so. Though I can't help but wonder what he'll do if a situation arises where he may have to take drastic measures to keep the promise - or if he makes some mistake which forces him to betray it...
I want him to receive an order from the Emperor that would result in him breaking it if he follows through with it. I just want to see him come up to a situation were he would have to seriously think about his resolve and how his path might conflict with his intention of helping the Japanese.
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:18   Link #3068
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
I want him to receive an order from the Emperor that would result in him breaking it if he follows through with it. I just want to see him come up to a situation were he would have to seriously think about his resolve and how his path might conflict with his intention of helping the Japanese.
I just want him to make up his damn mind on what he wants to be.
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:23   Link #3069
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
I want him to receive an order from the Emperor that would result in him breaking it if he follows through with it. I just want to see him come up to a situation were he would have to seriously think about his resolve and how his path might conflict with his intention of helping the Japanese.
Oh, yes, something like that would defintively be a way to show what he truly believes in, sorta. So far the only situation like that he has encountered was the One Million Zero thing, but because he was in charge of that AND because that he remembered Euphie and nunnally, it wasn't that hard a choice for him, not in comparison to the situation you describe anyway.
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:29   Link #3070
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku View Post
Oh, yes, something like that would defintively be a way to show what he truly believes in, sorta. So far the only situation like that he has encountered was the One Million Zero thing, but because he was in charge of that AND because that he remembered Euphie and nunnally, it wasn't that hard a choice for him, not in comparison to the situation you describe anyway.
Yeah, basically I don't count the Million Zero incident because of that. Plus it might finally put to rest some of the debates about Suzaku as well. For me though, Suzaku has not been shown to have even remotely made any progress towards his goal or even have much of a plan, it would be nice if we have something to confirm what he really believes in for us.
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:33   Link #3071
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Yeah, basically I don't count the Million Zero incident because of that. Plus it might finally put to rest some of the debates about Suzaku as well. For me though, Suzaku has not been shown to have even remotely made any progress towards his goal or even have much of a plan, it would be nice if we have something to confirm what he really believes in for us.
Yeah, it'd finailly put an end to many a Suzaku battle either way - after all, the Suzaku debate as it is now base sitself ont hat.. We don't know what Suzaku really is as he is now. He seems rather... lost and has so far seemed rather content with just following his orders - but he has not yet been given a true test of his own beliefs. And when that time comes, what'll he choose, one wonder...
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Old 2008-07-03, 21:38   Link #3072
yezhanquan
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Hence, I can't claim to be his defender. The boy doesn't even know what he wants.
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Old 2008-07-03, 23:54   Link #3073
Crontica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I just want him to make up his damn mind on what he wants to be.
You my friend just summed it up neatly in one simple sentence, his illogical blindness is not normal, if Suzaku does get the power to make create another SAZ i doubt he is going to do anything useful with it the corruption of the government is going to make sure he becomes even more blind than he already is
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Old 2008-07-04, 00:50   Link #3074
Nanaya
ハイパー武器英雄
 
 
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Oh my god, I can't believe people can be this blind. What part of becoming Knight of One is not a definite goal? What part of aiming for a protectorate/indirect rule is not a definite goal?

Corruption? So Suzaku having the power to appoint Japanese to rule themselves under his command is worse than having the Black Knights rule Japan? When they also have people like Tamaki in their ranks?

Just because you hate Suzaku doesn't mean he doesn't have a goal. He aims to become the strongest Knight because that is the only path left to him, other than govern Area 11 as Nunnally's knight-advisor. And even if you don't respect him, a lot of people in Code Geass respects him.

Even the Emperor respects the guy. Schneizel and Cornelia too. Even Suzaku's underlings in Area 11 respect him because he is power incarnate.

So don't give me that "he doesn't know what he wants" even if he blatantly announces it in front of us ever since episode 5.

EDIT:

And oh yeah, Suzaku's not trying to abolish the Imperial system, he's trying to make it tolerant of Elevens so that everyone will be equal under the Empire, instead of Britannians just trampling on Elevens' rights.
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Old 2008-07-04, 01:00   Link #3075
Sol Falling
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Hehe, welcome back Nanaya. I'm glad to have someone who's not bullshitting with vague criticisms about Suzaku around.
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Old 2008-07-04, 01:17   Link #3076
Nanaya
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Yeah. Sorry for not being around too much. I just happen to pop in and out nowadays.
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Old 2008-07-04, 02:08   Link #3077
canis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Yeah, basically I don't count the Million Zero incident because of that. Plus it might finally put to rest some of the debates about Suzaku as well.
I don't really understand this...
Getting inspiration from other people in critical situations is a common plot device of getting characters out of a crisis. Lelouch had similar moments to that.
His faltering and Kallen giving him a piece of her mind on Nunnally's abduction and Tianzi's almost political wedding to a Japanese and Shirley's rant about love...
You might say it's an important way of evolving characters and strengthening their resolve in anime...

Quote:
For me though, Suzaku has not been shown to have even remotely made any progress towards his goal or even have much of a plan, it would be nice if we have something to confirm what he really believes in for us.
Well, we didn't have too much focus on him apart from his days as a soldier. He's going to meetings but we don't see anything about it...
He's an advisor to the emperor but we don't really know what they talk about apart from Zero...
And I'd count Knight of Seven as a milestone, and he's not stopped working for Knight of One.
At the moment he's still mostly a soldier and doesn't seem to be around often enough to involve himself deeply in politics...

Quote:
Frankly on the matter of both of those characters, Lelouch and Suzaku are both hypocrites, just different kinds. It is a matter of what kind of hypocrite you prefer.
He, I guess that's a good way to sum it up... They contrast each other so well, I like both of them... <.<
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Old 2008-07-04, 02:46   Link #3078
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canis View Post
At the moment he's still mostly a soldier and doesn't seem to be around often enough to involve himself deeply in politics...
Being a man with the power to sign death warrants is much more than "just a soldier". Suzaku is supposedly part of the military elite; are you saying that he is still allowed to be excused for being "not powerful enough"?

Even if he becomes Knight of One, I still don't see Suzaku do anything. He hasn't been proactive with powers he currently has, thus I don't see how getting more power is going to change that much.

Most likely, Suzaku is just wait for the Emperor to die from old age and hoping that the replacement would be more reasonable.
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Old 2008-07-04, 03:21   Link #3079
Crontica
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Say what you want but i think his actions this past season speak for themselves.
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Old 2008-07-04, 03:30   Link #3080
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Yeah, basically I don't count the Million Zero incident because of that.
Yes, well, it is a little bit difficult when all the instances of him being proactive in his use of power magically "don't count".
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