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Old 2008-07-04, 13:38   Link #401
Wild Goose
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It's a tradeoff between armor and manuverability; on one hand the armor allows you to tank hits, but on the other hand in a valk, as in fighters, it's better not to be hit at all in the first place.
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Old 2008-07-04, 20:50   Link #402
Haesslich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
It's a tradeoff between armor and manuverability; on one hand the armor allows you to tank hits, but on the other hand in a valk, as in fighters, it's better not to be hit at all in the first place.
If the Armored VF-25 = plain vanilla VF-25 for maneuverability despite the extra mass, then there's no need to eject the armor... since when he does that, he'll STILL have the same maneuverability (it's not like he's hiding a Super pack under that Armored loadout), but with less armor and several fewer weapons. About the only packs we HAVE seen ejected were the Super packs, when they had to enter a small hole in a ship and the pilots weren't apparently certain they could fit the packs AND the VF-25 through; see Episode 1 and Episode 7, although with the latter it appears Alto used it as chaff to shrug off some Vajra missiles which were homing on him.
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Old 2008-07-04, 21:04   Link #403
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
If the Armored VF-25 = plain vanilla VF-25 for maneuverability despite the extra mass, then there's no need to eject the armor... since when he does that, he'll STILL have the same maneuverability (it's not like he's hiding a Super pack under that Armored loadout), but with less armor and several fewer weapons. About the only packs we HAVE seen ejected were the Super packs, when they had to enter a small hole in a ship and the pilots weren't apparently certain they could fit the packs AND the VF-25 through; see Episode 1 and Episode 7, although with the latter it appears Alto used it as chaff to shrug off some Vajra missiles which were homing on him.
I thought it was how the added mass would be a problem inside the atmosphere/gravity? You don't see Ozma flying around with the armor pack do you?
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Old 2008-07-04, 21:23   Link #404
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
If the Armored VF-25 = plain vanilla VF-25 for maneuverability despite the extra mass, then there's no need to eject the armor... since when he does that, he'll STILL have the same maneuverability (it's not like he's hiding a Super pack under that Armored loadout), but with less armor and several fewer weapons. About the only packs we HAVE seen ejected were the Super packs, when they had to enter a small hole in a ship and the pilots weren't apparently certain they could fit the packs AND the VF-25 through; see Episode 1 and Episode 7, although with the latter it appears Alto used it as chaff to shrug off some Vajra missiles which were homing on him.
I was referring to the older Armored Packs for the VF-0, VF-1 and VF-11, Haess. But if Ozma dumped his Armored Pack, he would get some better combat endurance, since those bigass thrusters must suck up reaction mass like no tomorrow to make his Armored move the way it does.

As for the Super Packs, we also see them ejected in Episode 12; in 1 Guilaime ejected his pack, and when we see Michel in Episode 2 he's also sniping without a pack, which means that there are probably drag issues when using super packs in atmosphere. In Episode 12, Alto and Michel jettisoned their packs before entering Gallia IV's atmosphere, probably because super packs aren't rated for atmospheric reentry.

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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I thought it was how the added mass would be a problem inside the atmosphere/gravity? You don't see Ozma flying around with the armor pack do you?
Actually Ozma was using the Armored Pack when he deployed in the city. He probably decided that he needed to be able to get that massive missile salvo into the Vajra red, which is why he used it. In his case he went for firepower, fully aware of the firepower/armor/manuverability tradeoffs between jettisoning and not jettisoning.
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Old 2008-07-04, 21:26   Link #405
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Actually Ozma was using the Armored Pack when he deployed in the city. He probably decided that he needed to be able to get that massive missile salvo into the Vajra red, which is why he used it. In his case he went for firepower, fully aware of the firepower/armor/manuverability tradeoffs between jettisoning and not jettisoning.
But did he fly while wearing it?
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Old 2008-07-04, 21:44   Link #406
Wild Goose
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But did he fly while wearing it?
Unseen, but logically if he flew at all it'd be in in GERWALK mode. With a VTOL aircraft, to paraphrase an American aerodynamic principle, if you give it enough thrust it will fly. And we do see that in GERWALK mode the Armored isn't exactly moving like a brick, so if at all he'd fly in atmosphere, it'd be with GERWALK. That said, flight in Fighter mode would be impossible, because the Armored pack covers all lift generating surfaces - i.e. the wings, so he won't get any lift. If he has to fly, it's in GERWALK.
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Old 2008-07-04, 21:51   Link #407
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^He flew around first to look for the Vajra, but he fought on the ground. (As mentioned, I think it was in GERWALK when he flew around.) Ground fighting seems to be the best tactic since flying around with Armored Packs in a cramped colony with an atmosphere isn't as smooth as flying around in space. Even the Red Vajra preferred to fight on the ground since its wings made it fly like a dumb beetle in an atmosphere. (It floated rather than glide like it did in space. The Brown ones didn't have this problem though as they still glided when they chased Alto, but they were still cannon fodder for Michel's sniping.)

Last edited by CaptGloval; 2008-07-04 at 22:04.
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Old 2008-07-05, 05:12   Link #408
Anh_Minh
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Question: why are the VF two-seaters when we only ever see them operated by one guy?
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Old 2008-07-05, 07:42   Link #409
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Question: why are the VF two-seaters when we only ever see them operated by one guy?
Extra passenger capacity for when the situation calls for it, like for taking a date ( ). It would seem that the rear passenger seats aren't deployed when they're not needed.
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Old 2008-07-05, 08:02   Link #410
glyph
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Extra passenger capacity for when the situation calls for it, like for taking a date ( ). It would seem that the rear passenger seats aren't deployed when they're not needed.
Also they can install a dual control system to use the VF as a trainer, where the instructor at the back can overide the controls.
I'm surprised Luca doesn't have a copilot, seeing how he has to juggle piloting, managing three X-9 Ghosts, and data collection and analysis in the middle of combat.
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Old 2008-07-05, 08:06   Link #411
squaresphere
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^ I think it's a hold over from the VF-19. It was a two seater as well.

Interesting to know it appears the VF-25 has dual rear firing cannons. Probably the actual head cannons found in battleroid mode. They might be gatling cannons as they have the same high pitch whine the gun pod does. Kinda odd they'd go with ammo based ones as traditionally the head cannons have always been lasers.

On the VF-27 turns out that Brera is actually wearing a helmet, you see him wearing it in the scene were Michel blows up his gun and the holographics drop for a second.
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Old 2008-07-05, 08:21   Link #412
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Yeah, I noticed that too, made a little post about it in the episode 13 thread. Now you just have to think about things like how he actually plays the harmonica haha

Also, it looks like there's either going to be an ace in the VF-171 or the NUNS has improved the arms for cannon-fodder units since we see a 171 seemingly kill a red vajra in the preview for episode 14.
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Old 2008-07-05, 09:28   Link #413
squaresphere
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^ i'm thinking it's an ace as he was just blowing up some browns which do go down pretty nice under normal gun pod fire. That and he was using the battleroid mode which only leetz characters get to use. ^_^

>_< i didn't even think about the harmonica!. I'll go out on for a stretch and say maybe the holograms only display what he's thinking. IE like Guld only sat in one pose while piloting. The holograph could just be an overlay.
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Old 2008-07-05, 09:30   Link #414
Tak
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About damn time. In the triangle that is the VF-25, VF-27 and the VF-171, the VF-171 certainly is the underdog here. For a mainstay fighter, they sure 'were' doing pretty terribly.

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Old 2008-07-05, 09:37   Link #415
squaresphere
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I'm sure the VF-171 isn't a bad fighter. It's about time the current main stay fighter got some love. Gotta justify ordering several hundred of the Valkyries
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Old 2008-07-05, 17:10   Link #416
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VF-171 is the brownie, the only time when the ll bright, if when someone blow them up (Varja or breda)
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Old 2008-07-05, 20:40   Link #417
Wesley84
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A generic fighter getting some love? What do you think this is? SDF?
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Old 2008-07-05, 20:41   Link #418
Westlo
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Clearly Michael drops Sheryl off and she "borrows" a VF-171 to show everyone her skills.
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Old 2008-07-05, 22:58   Link #419
CaptGloval
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Well, the VF-171's underwhelming performance so far was partly due to its being piloted by n00bs. SMS got the veterans and the bright new talents. However, the n00bs have been getting their own experience skirmishing with the Vajra so they're getting better now.
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Old 2008-07-05, 23:23   Link #420
Wesley84
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Well, the VF-171's underwhelming performance so far was partly due to its being piloted by n00bs. SMS got the veterans and the bright new talents. However, the n00bs have been getting their own experience skirmishing with the Vajra so they're getting better now.
A colony fleet of over a million people and they can only produce half a dozen decent pilots?
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