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Old 2004-04-18, 01:08   Link #21
Kyuven
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the dub acting seemed incredibly cliched (do they use the SAME cast for EVERY freakin Gundam dub or am i imagining things?)
i never got to see the fansubs it was licensed before i started using BT >_<
all i can do is wait for bandai to release the DVDs (which will be unedited...Bandai isn't frickin 4Kids after all)
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Old 2004-04-18, 01:30   Link #22
Enragin_Angel
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I noticed that they cut a few scenes. The scene where athrun shoots marius in the arm and it kinda goes in slow motion. They either cut that scene because of the bad animation (it suffered from poor sharpness) or they cut it because of the blood. Who knows...but did any of you notice any other cut scenes? Also, I don't like how they just mixed a bunch of the OPs together and put anna ni issho datta no ni as the song. They cut part of the song as well. How about more songs and less commercials?...is what I would say if I was talking to the people at toonami.
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Old 2004-04-18, 05:41   Link #23
Ranko
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One thing i do thank God for, is CN does most of it's own editing, so we don't have to worry about the DVDs being bad and evil

I did i have to lend out my ficken subs to someone i need to listin to the japanese Kira to save my soul
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Old 2004-04-18, 09:48   Link #24
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Well, I figured this would happen. But you really can't blame most people for bashing the dub. Like a lot of other people said, having watched SEED in Japanese, they had the voices etched in their minds, and set a very high standard for what the dub should sound like. Actually I think SEED's Japanese cast is the best I've seen yet for any anime. Personally I won't have an opinion until the DVD's come out in September, cuz I live in Canada and don't get CN. Either way, I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. Remember the dub for Gundam Wing? I thought the acting for the first few episodes sucked. But as it got off the ground, the acting got better and better. Don't jump on the band wagon just yet. It's only the first episode. The Voice Actors will probably have gotten into their roles a few episodes down the road. Just wait and see. Not all dubs are destined to suck the whole series. But if you can't stand the dub, you can always wait 5 months for the DVD's to come out.
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Old 2004-04-18, 10:03   Link #25
Komataguri
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My rage at the situation isn't because the subs Japanese voices were burned into my brain.

My problem is that they made Kira sound like a surfer hippie.

Kira is NOT that confident in the begining, and surely dosn't sound like the next words out of his mouth should be " Duuuudes, Lets go hit a doobie and rip a gnarly curl ".


They gave these characters the most horrible, stereotypical white american hippie pothead voice actors imaginable.


I know, if ADV would have gotten this series.. it would have been Great.

I've never been disapointed with a ADV dubs.

Hell, Even Pioneer has done some great dubs. Trigun was an awesome job.

I've never been so disapointed in a dub then I am, right now, with Bandais bastardization of Gundam Seed.
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Old 2004-04-18, 11:53   Link #26
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You shouldn't call such things bastardized, it's an insult to the bastards of the world.
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Old 2004-04-18, 12:28   Link #27
Melazoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranko
You shouldn't call such things bastardized, it's an insult to the bastards of the world.
lol on that note: Back when my Englsih proficiency was still in its infancy--7 years ago--I actually learned the word "Bastard" as an insult and took it to mean something close to 馬鹿野郎 (for my lack of a Chinese WP and the prevalent Japanese usage on this board, I chose to use a Japanese phrase instead of Chinese).

It wasn't until much later that I learned that the origin of the word "Bastard" began as an vile remark to a child born out of wedlock. I may have insulted some people more than I meant to as a result of such learning process
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夜空に星が瞬くように Yozora ni hoshi ga matataku youni,|Sure as the nightsky full of twinkling stars,
溶けた心は離れない Toketa kokoro wa hanare nai|There shall be no separating these melting hearts;
例えこの手が離れても Tatoe kono te ga hanare temo|Even if these hands should ever part,
二人がそれを忘れぬ限り Futari ga soreo wasurenu kagiri|As long as it's never forgotten by these two in love.

君が望む永遠 Kimi ga Nozomu Eien|The Eternity of Your Wish
サカイ殿、漢字のティプ、感謝しました
Sig. Note: The Japanese text is transcribed from the lines spoken in the show by myself (not good enough in Japanese). I'd like everyone knowledgable in Japanese to correct me in any errors|For the English translation: If anyone skilled in English comes up with a better, more poetic interpretation, I'm all ears.
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Old 2004-04-18, 12:41   Link #28
Panon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UssoKK
Well, that and I want to know how severe the edits were exactly. I've told everyone that the new Toonami was aimed toward an older teen audience like the execs said, they wouldnt HAVE to edit anything
How severe were the edits? Ok..

All blood was removed.

Any scene that showed a person dying that wasn't part of the gun battle late in the episode was removed (examples: when Fraga's wingman Gale is killed, you see Gale looking terrified as a Ginn flew at him, thats gone. When the bombs planted around Archangel detonate, originally you see people in and around the ship caught in the blast, all those scenes are gone).

During the gun battle there were minor parts cut, but also dead bodies were digitally removed.

Sound effects for all gunfire is changed and I mean ALL, whether that's rifles and pistols being fired by people or the weapons of mobile suits and mobile armours, so that it sounds less like gunfire and more like lasers. It's been done so poorly that during the first space battle, when the Ginns fire their guns it uses the Phase Shift Armour activating sound effect. It's not even consistant, later in the episode when Ginns are firing their gun makes the sound of missiles launching. It's like they didn't even bother to make a new sound and just threw a random sound effect over the top of it.

The opening title sequence is gone, completely.

The end title sequence is completely mangled. The next episode preview has now been dumped *before* the ED, which causes problems since episodes always end with the ED music beginning while the episode is still going. Now the song is cut off, the next ep preview plays, then it cuts back to a cut down clip of the ending song playing over video from the third OP.



Apart from the CN editing which obvious sucks, I wasn't unhappy with the dub. Sure it has a bit of "surfer dude" syndrome, but overall it's better than average. Dub casts usually take a couple of episodes to get properly into character so I'll give it a couple of more episodes to see how it goes.

Last edited by Panon; 2004-04-18 at 21:16.
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Old 2004-04-18, 12:51   Link #29
Kyuven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komataguri

I know, if ADV would have gotten this series.. it would have been Great.

I've never been disapointed with a ADV dubs.

Hell, Even Pioneer has done some great dubs. Trigun was an awesome job.
.
i just wanna point out that the ADV VAs can't pronounce japanese words to save their lives, and Bandai and ADV share a lot of the same voice actors (you can hear Kira's VA in a few ADV series for instance)
what's forever etched in my mind after watching the first episode last night: they pronounce Kira's last name "YAMAto"...it sounds REALLY bad...
oh and Fraga is now Flaga...shoulda seen that coming but whatever
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Old 2004-04-18, 13:05   Link #30
Melazoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuven
i just wanna point out that the ADV VAs can't pronounce japanese words to save their lives, and Bandai and ADV share a lot of the same voice actors (you can hear Kira's VA in a few ADV series for instance)
what's forever etched in my mind after watching the first episode last night: they pronounce Kira's last name "YAMAto"...it sounds REALLY bad...
oh and Fraga is now Flaga...shoulda seen that coming but whatever
Oh dear god like "Tomahto" of British English? Reading more of this furthur hardens my determination; that unless the dubsters can seriously hire competent actors who can pronounce a Japanese name without butchering it so completely--surely anyone can say "Ki-la Ya-ma'to'."

And this should have been done so long ago: that all "R" in character names gets pronounced "L"--save when the name was intended to be an Anglo-name--perhaps even spelled as such in the official English release. It pains me to hear, whether on TV or on the accidental DVD track, the absolute butchering resulted from "RAH-" of any kind. It's just... not pretty
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夜空に星が瞬くように Yozora ni hoshi ga matataku youni,|Sure as the nightsky full of twinkling stars,
溶けた心は離れない Toketa kokoro wa hanare nai|There shall be no separating these melting hearts;
例えこの手が離れても Tatoe kono te ga hanare temo|Even if these hands should ever part,
二人がそれを忘れぬ限り Futari ga soreo wasurenu kagiri|As long as it's never forgotten by these two in love.

君が望む永遠 Kimi ga Nozomu Eien|The Eternity of Your Wish
サカイ殿、漢字のティプ、感謝しました
Sig. Note: The Japanese text is transcribed from the lines spoken in the show by myself (not good enough in Japanese). I'd like everyone knowledgable in Japanese to correct me in any errors|For the English translation: If anyone skilled in English comes up with a better, more poetic interpretation, I'm all ears.
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Old 2004-04-18, 13:14   Link #31
Quiddity
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the dub acting seemed incredibly cliched (do they use the SAME cast for EVERY freakin Gundam dub or am i imagining things?)
Actually the vast majority of the cast has never appeared in a Gundam dub (only the actors for Ramius, Mu, Tolle, Ades, and Sai) Infact many of the VAs (Cagali's, Natarle's, Creuset's, the Narrator's, Yzak's, Nicol's, etc...) seem to be new to Ocean in the first place.

Quote:
i just wanna point out that the ADV VAs can't pronounce japanese words to save their lives, and Bandai and ADV share a lot of the same voice actors (you can hear Kira's VA in a few ADV series for instance)
You really show off your ignorance regarding dubs here. ADV dubs are done in Texas. The Bandai dubs are done in either Vancouver(Ocean) or Los Angeles(Animaze). None of the ADV actors have ever appeared in a Bandai dub. Matt Hill, Kira's VA has NEVER appeared in an ADV dub.

I thought the dub was great. Cartoon Network handled the show horrifically, particularly all the commercial breaks and putting the preview before the ending, but the voices were great. Can't say I'm surprised with the reaction here though, you are the same people who were calling Bandai the devil for licensing their own property for US release in the first place. You have your beloved bootlegs, if you hate the dub that much just go back to them.
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Old 2004-04-18, 15:36   Link #32
Melazoma
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This is an addendum to my previous post, which was posted in rage, and may not have made too much sense.

I suppose my questions to the Dusters--the people who handle the dubbing--is why are they unable to take the time and find the right cast and give the proper coaching to the cast? I consider myself one of the most vocal person against Dubbing on the internet and off, not because of a rabid desire for the show to stay like when it was fansubbed, but out of the love of a show I've come to hold as one of the best shows I have seen. I am perfectly fine with the concept of dubbing in and of itself, and I realize that there is a giant market(North American) out there that is "too lazy to read subtitles." What I cannot stand, is the complete destruction of characters painstakingly built by the original producers and Voice Talents as soon as the first line is spoken in English. With all that said, I support dubbing, if and only if it is done faithfully to the characters and story itself. There is only one recent dub job that impressed me thoroughly and grants me hope for the better; that production is my yard stick in dubbing--it's not an anime, it's the Metal Gear Solid series, both One and Two. I have heard both the Japanese version and the English version on each title. The dub cast and their work on each game, lead by the Inimatable David Hayter, are the epitome of North American localization.

So far, I've not seen anything like it--that is what pains me so.
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夜空に星が瞬くように Yozora ni hoshi ga matataku youni,|Sure as the nightsky full of twinkling stars,
溶けた心は離れない Toketa kokoro wa hanare nai|There shall be no separating these melting hearts;
例えこの手が離れても Tatoe kono te ga hanare temo|Even if these hands should ever part,
二人がそれを忘れぬ限り Futari ga soreo wasurenu kagiri|As long as it's never forgotten by these two in love.

君が望む永遠 Kimi ga Nozomu Eien|The Eternity of Your Wish
サカイ殿、漢字のティプ、感謝しました
Sig. Note: The Japanese text is transcribed from the lines spoken in the show by myself (not good enough in Japanese). I'd like everyone knowledgable in Japanese to correct me in any errors|For the English translation: If anyone skilled in English comes up with a better, more poetic interpretation, I'm all ears.
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Old 2004-04-18, 16:21   Link #33
BanditKing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuven
i just wanna point out that the ADV VAs can't pronounce japanese words to save their lives, and Bandai and ADV share a lot of the same voice actors (you can hear Kira's VA in a few ADV series for instance)
what's forever etched in my mind after watching the first episode last night: they pronounce Kira's last name "YAMAto"...it sounds REALLY bad...
oh and Fraga is now Flaga...shoulda seen that coming but whatever
ADV has two dub studio, the one that is really good(well my opinion anyway) is
Industrial Smoke & Mirrors studios and the other that I didn't like is Monster Island studio.Sometime they use Bang Zoom Entertainment but its unlikely now.

Bandai mostly use Ocean studio which you are hearing from gundam seed.

They use different studio so they can't have the same VA.
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Old 2004-04-18, 16:47   Link #34
Kyuven
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Originally Posted by Quiddity
You really show off your ignorance regarding dubs here. ADV dubs are done in Texas. The Bandai dubs are done in either Vancouver(Ocean) or Los Angeles(Animaze). None of the ADV actors have ever appeared in a Bandai dub. Matt Hill, Kira's VA has NEVER appeared in an ADV dub.
this sorta proves ANOTHER point though: most of these VAs sound exactly the same, and the one's that do sound different always sound the same no matter what role they play

The type-casting is what gets me: younger male characters (such as Nakahito from Steel Angel, the entire cast of digimon...or anything ending in -mon for that matter) are always played by the same actresses, these same actresses also always play the tomboy-ish female characters ("Izzy" from Digimon and Motoko from Love Hina have the same VA)
even the VAs themselves, in some of the extra commentary on some of ADVs discs, complain about being type cast. (Nakahito's VA said something along the lines of "Why do i always have to play little boys?")
and if you think a Bandai/ADV/FUNimation/Geneon/etc. VA has never worked on a project for another company...most of the VAs are just contracted to a specific company, much like some actors are contracted to a specific studio, or sports players are contracted to a specific team. For instance, some of the VAs working for 4Kids once worked for ADV
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Old 2004-04-18, 17:05   Link #35
Maikeru
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I watched this last night on Toonami. I enjoyed it. This is the first Gundam series that I've actually bothered to watch.
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Old 2004-04-18, 17:11   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuven
For instance, some of the VAs working for 4Kids once worked for ADV
Wha?

Some of the VAs of 4Kids work with either Right Stuf, CPM, Media Blasters and sometimes Manga Entertainment.
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Old 2004-04-18, 17:17   Link #37
BanditKing
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Originally Posted by Kyuven
this sorta proves ANOTHER point though: most of these VAs sound exactly the same, and the one's that do sound different always sound the same no matter what role they play
just because they sound same(Note:I don't think they sound the same)doesn't mean that they all can't pronounce japanese words.If the Ocean studio can't pronounce word doesn't mean that IS&M studio can't pronounce word too.


unless they are doing a part of the anime spin off that another company licensed then its not usually to hire an VA from other studio.

Example

Geneon licensed soultaker and ADV licensed Nurse Witch Komugi.Some of the VA who is in soultaker are in Nurse Witch Komugi which is why ADV have to hire some of the VA in soultaker to do in Nurse Witch Komugi.Unless they are in this situation they don't hire other studio VA.
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Old 2004-04-18, 17:18   Link #38
Quiddity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuven
this sorta proves ANOTHER point though: most of these VAs sound exactly the same, and the one's that do sound different always sound the same no matter what role they play
Well, if they sound all the same to you there's nothing I can do about that. I've spent the time watching many dubs time and time again and can easily distinguish between the actors. As such a dub hater I wouldn't be surprised that you'd have that attitude. Then again, the japanese actors often sound exactly the same too. Are you gonna whine about that too?

Quote:
and if you think a Bandai/ADV/FUNimation/Geneon/etc. VA has never worked on a project for another company...most of the VAs are just contracted to a specific company, much like some actors are contracted to a specific studio, or sports players are contracted to a specific team. For instance, some of the VAs working for 4Kids once worked for ADV
Never said that. But in general, actors who live in Vancouver DON'T APPEAR IN TEXAS DUBS!!!!! Only once in 7+ years of watching dubbed anime have I heard an actor who has appeared in more than one of the 3 major geographical regions for dubbing anime for non-connected characters, Lenore Zan who was Aisha Clan Clan in Outlaw Star(LA dub) and Hamon in MS Gundam (Vancouver dub). Matt Hill somehow going to Texas to appear in an ADV dub then back to Vancouver for Gundam Seed? Doesn't happen.
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Old 2004-04-18, 21:07   Link #39
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After discussion with various anime fans all over the world (and actually listening to non English dubs such as shows done in: French, Spanish, Korean), I am of the opinion that among dubs English dubs are often the worst. Spanish dubs done by Mexicans (even though I understand very little Spanish) are usually of very high quality, and I have heard the actors/actresses take their work very seriously. A friend of mine from South America told me VAs are pretty well known down there and have pretty wide fan bases. Same goes for French dubs (although French with Anime sounds a little weird), and the Korean dubs I have listened to have generally been good as well. None of them quite capture what the Japanese VAs did, but a lot of times the different takes on characters done by VAs who do stuff in these three languages is heartfelt and very interesting. English dubs generally sound less enthusiastic, less researched, less professional. Of course this is my opinion, but I feel that at least it's not an opinion coming out of a vacuum as I have heard many different dubs in many different languages over the years.
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Old 2004-04-18, 22:09   Link #40
Silver_Scorcher
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Actually a couple of more prominent VA's from the Ocean Group (Brad Swaile: Dearka, and Lisa Ann Beley: Murrue), got cast in an anime licensed by ADV called Nurse Witch Komugi. Perhaps IS&M recruited them into their fold, or are just borrowing them. Well either way, Brad & Lisa are two of the best actors from the Ocean Group, so it's no surprise that IS&M would cast the two of them.
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