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Old 2008-07-05, 04:51   Link #581
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem View Post
I am of the same opinion and that's why I was biased against Ranka when the show first started. She did grow on me a bit since then when her personality was exposed a bit. But lately all she has been doing is crying Alto to rescue her from situations that she should be able to handle on her own. The damsel in distress thing is what really makes me dislike how she has turned out in the last few episodes. Plus her fang and green dog ears really annoy me. Down with moe and loli!
Yes, because she should be able to fly away from on her pedestal on her own. Without X-gear. How? By flapping her hair as fast as she can?

Or maybe she shouldn't have been captured in the first place. She should have kicked the ass of whatever giant insect(s) took her with her bare hands.

She may not be the most proactive or bravest character on the show, but "should be able to handle on her own" isn't exactly fair.
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Old 2008-07-05, 05:07   Link #582
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yes, because she should be able to fly away from on her pedestal on her own. Without X-gear. How? By flapping her hair as fast as she can?

Or maybe she shouldn't have been captured in the first place. She should have kicked the ass of whatever giant insect(s) took her with her bare hands.

She may not be the most proactive or bravest character on the show, but "should be able to handle on her own" isn't exactly fair.
For some people it wouldn't matter if her legs were broken on top of all of that. Your circumstances do not matter. Your ability or lack thereof is no excuse. You're a girl. You're showing real and geninue weakness in the face of deadly and dangerous adversity. You need and are crying out for help. You're a D. I. D. and are beneath contempt.

It's a cruel standard that is too prevalant among viewers these days. It's like everyone expects every female character to be some kind of liberated superwoman that can rip out the spines of anything that threatens her.
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Old 2008-07-05, 05:22   Link #583
ickem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yes, because she should be able to fly away from on her pedestal on her own. Without X-gear. How? By flapping her hair as fast as she can?

Or maybe she shouldn't have been captured in the first place. She should have kicked the ass of whatever giant insect(s) took her with her bare hands.

She may not be the most proactive or bravest character on the show, but "should be able to handle on her own" isn't exactly fair.
Granted, the situation with the queen is not something that she can get away from herself, but it is a continuation of the trend that has been going on since episode 1. I am not expecting her to flapping away from the pedestal or to perform miracles in life or death situations, but her helplessness in these scenarios only emphasize the seemingly willful helplessness that she affects in other areas of her life. Ranka seems to always be waiting for someone else to rescue her, whether it is from actual danger or it is simply from situations in her life that she doesn't want to confront herself. In episode 4 it was her inability to cope with actually being in the Miss Macross pageant. Alto had to save Ranka from her own insecurity, with a little added help from Sheryl of course. In ep 5 Michel called her out on how she keeps trying to find someone that can shelter her instead of dealing situations that she doesn't like.

I don't know, it really irks me that they have spent half the series portraying her as the damsel in distress. It's almost like Minmei topped with a dollop of loli and a side of moe.
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Old 2008-07-05, 05:29   Link #584
Eurys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
You're a girl. You're showing real and geninue weakness in the face of deadly and dangerous adversity. You need and are crying out for help. You're a D. I. D. and are beneath contempt.

It's a cruel standard that is too prevalant among viewers these days.
Isn't the cruel unfair standard to actually put female characters in those situations? Just imagine a male character acting exactly the way Ranka was acting and a female character rushing to his help...you just know everyone would call that male character a wuss, a weakling etc etc...

@ Anh_Minh, personally, I can't blame Ranka for actually reacting that way in the face of danger, but I do blame the writers for shoving her a lot in those kind of situations, and expecting me not to roll my eyes after a while.

I guess this is partly why I love Sheryl so much compared to Ranka. It's always easy to make people love and root for victims and underdog characters (well, talking about girls here ). It's a whole another story when it's a confident independant female

Last edited by Eurys; 2008-07-05 at 05:39.
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Old 2008-07-05, 05:47   Link #585
Swampstorm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yes, because she should be able to fly away from on her pedestal on her own. Without X-gear. How? By flapping her hair as fast as she can?

Or maybe she shouldn't have been captured in the first place. She should have kicked the ass of whatever giant insect(s) took her with her bare hands.

She may not be the most proactive or bravest character on the show, but "should be able to handle on her own" isn't exactly fair.
Wait! That's not ickem that you're replying to! It's... a straw man?

Your argument was impressive, but it had nothing to do with what was originally posted. You took a general statement about Ranka's attitude in her everyday life and applied it out of context to a specific, but extraordinary, situation.

But this discussion really should go in the Ranka thread.
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Old 2008-07-05, 06:57   Link #586
Anh_Minh
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Fine. I'll take it there.
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Old 2008-07-05, 07:09   Link #587
SuperKnuckles
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I'll add that while I am a Ranka fan compard to Sheryl (hey, I like both), I think it's fairly obvious why Ranka plays the victim or in her right mind, plays in a laid back manner in regards to dire situations, whether in romance or in battle. It's probably the victim complex due to her past and maybe even *gasp* her actual personality to do with that. I don't think it's inherently faulty of her to do so, just as much Sheryl's bossiness and cockiness can get her into trouble too. They obviously both have their pros and cons but I can relate to Ranka a bit more because my attitude is just like her in real life AND she's so insanely cute.

All that said, I don't think Sheryl's obstinate attitude could save her from the likes of the Vajra like that. It's fairly obvious that the show is putting Ranka's helpless attitude right on top of her helpless situations.
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Old 2008-07-05, 07:25   Link #588
Westlo
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
All that said, I don't think Sheryl's obstinate attitude could save her from the likes of the Vajra like that. It's fairly obvious that the show is putting Ranka's helpless attitude right on top of her helpless situations.
That's the problem, more so than Ranka herself it's that the show constantly has her in those situations, I mean no one expects Ranka to be piloting by series end (Sheryl and Alto the new Max and Millia!) but we could do without a few helpless situations. She's always relying on Alto in regards to getting saved, career, asking for advice. Ranka uses him as a crutch and god think how much worse it will be if Ozma bites the bullet....
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Old 2008-07-05, 07:28   Link #589
SuperKnuckles
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Well, then again, it looked like Sheryl was a bit jealous of Ranka swooping in and taking the spotlight on the Zentraedi planet, Ranka still did a lot of the actual work to get so far, and being so extra shy as her original personality was, just getting up there must have been an ordeal in itself. As much as she says she is relying on the likes of Alto and Sheryl, I think she gives herself too little credit.

I can understand the Min-May comparisons, but Minmay was on full exploitation mode halfway through. Ranka still acts and probably really thinks she is a helpless underdog still.
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Old 2008-07-05, 09:44   Link #590
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Well, then again, it looked like Sheryl was a bit jealous of Ranka swooping in and taking the spotlight on the Zentraedi planet, Ranka still did a lot of the actual work to get so far, and being so extra shy as her original personality was, just getting up there must have been an ordeal in itself. As much as she says she is relying on the likes of Alto and Sheryl, I think she gives herself too little credit.
Sheryl was not as jealous as Ranka as she was angry at herself for her inability to do what she was supposed to.

That she had to be 'saved', and a feeling of worthlessness was proving unbearable for an individual who, so far, had accomplished everything through willpower alone.

And, unlike Ranka, Sheryl had no qualms talking about Ranka and was the first to suggest that Mikhail should help looking for her, or die trying. Ranka on the other hand, never even mentioned Sheryl. The moment she swooped down the planet to departing with Alto, she made absolutely no mention of the Galactic Fairy whatsoever, as if she didn't exist at that point.

- Tak
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Old 2008-07-05, 12:31   Link #591
herbert
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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I wonder why so many people think Sheryl is jealous of Ranka in ep12. I mean you guys never read Sheryl's blog? She compares Ranka to a singer from 18 fleet she greatly admires as she sees Ranka possesses same quality of that singer from the 1st time Ranka comes into her sight. I also wonder why people think Sheryl is not grateful to Ranka because she looks depressed at end of ep12. Ranka is not standing before her and she is alone. It's time to blame her own inability.
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Old 2008-07-06, 07:46   Link #592
cheesie
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Screw that. I want chibi-Sheryl.
LMAO sorry, but when it comes to total 100% cuteness, chibi-Ranka has it in the bag, no questions asked. Sheryl needs something MORE to beat the cuddly and sweet innocence of that pic.
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Old 2008-07-06, 10:54   Link #593
ickem
シェリルの為に!
 
 
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Originally Posted by crisis View Post
LMAO sorry, but when it comes to total 100% cuteness, chibi-Ranka has it in the bag, no questions asked. Sheryl needs something MORE to beat the cuddly and sweet innocence of that pic.
She already has what it takes to quash cuddly and sweet innocence .
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Old 2008-07-06, 11:51   Link #594
stray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis View Post
LMAO sorry, but when it comes to total 100% cuteness, chibi-Ranka has it in the bag, no questions asked. Sheryl needs something MORE to beat the cuddly and sweet innocence of that pic.
Don't forget about her teddy bear...

Spoiler for episode 6:
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Old 2008-07-06, 17:16   Link #595
Darial
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Originally Posted by stray View Post
Don't forget about her teddy bear...
That picture of chib-Sheryl looks like bad flashback out of Tokyo Majin Gakuen. Totemo kawaikunai!
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Old 2008-07-06, 18:50   Link #596
BleachOD
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Because I was asked and asked. So I will put it here..instead

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Considering the way you interpreted the episode 10 kiss I can't wait to see you "dissect" some more scenes.
You almost make me wanna bite...*I love people like you the best.* I am going to give you cookiefor almost making want to debate you. But you remind me of HT so I feel I shouldn't bother... You are biased

Question? It's newbie thing? Isn't it? It's because I didn't watch the other Macross' isn't it? Since you saw the other Macross. So me small fish you big fry and your superior knowledge beats mine. is that it?

Well how did you interpret it. And what kiss we talking about? Because I seriously don't know.

Sheryl's? The one that was prompted because although she's superior in looks(in some people's eyes) and was gearing up to be the front runner. A "Galactic Fairy" who many men admire. Is threatened by what you call "Kiss that's in the script"It's not like he wants to do it. right. His look, the close-up and all was just in the script. Right?(<--From your point of view, not mine)

Then she saw him show concern for a young girl's first kiss because he knows it's a serious thing to her. Because he(she) knows that Ranka likes him. So much that she has to make sure she not only kisses him first. She must make sure the girl she's supposed to like a least enough not to want to rub it in her face about it. Gets a front row seat.

if she was so confident she wouldn't have fretted one bit. She was scared because she can see like I see AltoXRanka potential. Now all is fair in love in war....So I can understand where she's coming from. Let's not make her a saint.
I like bitches too, more times than not. Just not this time....


Sheryl needs adulation and only likes Alto "Because you don't treat me like everyone else" and *because Galaxy was cold and sterile and Alto is the first time she felt human warmth* I don't know her history so I am basing this off episode one.<--as starting point

So she likes Alto because he's not dropping at her feet. She flaps her breasts but really pays that no attention. She's never encountered that so she is out of her element...and that's why she's insecure...and seeks him out. (Sorta like a blood hound. But at least right now she's not a stalker in my eyes )

But what if Alto had a Partner who was just as pretty he was and paid her no attention? and they saved her together?and both were indifferent to her in the same manner? Would she fall for both of because "They were both the first people she met and together they saved her? Her reasons for liking Alto are kind of superficial and If he fell all over her. She probably wouldn't look at him twice. "Because she is Sheryl" She seems to need to say this over and over to herself. I see it a front. She is feigning arrogance she doesn't feel and has to say that.


Because what she doesn't realize. He's prettier than she is. He's a former Kabuki star. He's used to adulation. He can get chicks that are better looking. Hmm then again Maybe she does realize it and that's why she's insecure.


She actually sought Ranka out once she heard of her plans then pulled that "Fly in the Sky' crap and end the end it backfired on her. Secure people don't resort to things like that over a Loli who is by your definition a virtual non-entity.
SMACKS OF INSECURITIES.
@mag...some people like some people hate em. I use to take the bite out my posts. And because if I am closing in for the kill...they are noticeably absent<--but if I decide for some reason I like to bedevil you I will use cause I know it annoys you. I can't help it. I am built that way. But's all in fun. I bash the characters not the fans...unless you make me then I must bite your head off. Because "I ain't scared of you mofo's" <-Props to who knows who's line that is..

damn I can't finish...Been on all day...

I didn't say as much as you want.(nor I wanted too)But let's see if we can get us both fired up

Be back to edit if no one has posted..
@ Hack...WTH?
Quote:
What the hell you link my posts. I didn't ask you To then you<-- not you...but others brow beat into answering...when I didn't want to O.o *

Um...My heart isn't in it*

I just realized you were so eager to instigate in hopes that I would be wrong...because "There I am always right" I was forced into this...stop acting like I am just being a bitch. ( I can be just not now) I am being the me I always am. Love me or Hate me....
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Old 2008-07-06, 19:17   Link #597
zalem
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Uh yeah, cause Sheryl is psychic and would know that Ranka would turn around at precisely that moment to see the kiss. That's why we are all scratching our heads about your so-called "dissection" of that scene. Ranka was facing the ocean, Sheryl did not see Ranka turn around. She kissed Alto and while that was happening Ranka turned around and saw it.

Oh and when we are talking about a character being insecure or needy we are not just focusing on the relationship with Alto aspect...but the character as a whole. Ranka has constantly needed someone to prod her into doing things. She is starting to move away from that, but she still does it. Sheryl is all about relying on her own strength. Doing what she can with her own two hands. In fact, maybe she does that too much. Maybe her problem is that she needs more human contacts and people IRL to support her. Does this mean Sheryl is super confident in EVERYTHING she does? No, of course not. She is human. And when it comes to relationships...well that is another person in the equation. You can only do so much with your own two hands, but the other person must return the feelings. Sheryl sees very much as of episode 13 how strongly Alto is feeling for Ranka. But what does she do? She gets over that moment of pain and says she'll do what she can to go rescue Ranka. I respect her for that.

And I'm not saying Ranka cannot grow. She has already grown a bit. Hopefully she will continue. The best story writers know how to develop their characters. I truly hope she becomes something more then the typical damsel in distress.
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Last edited by zalem; 2008-07-06 at 19:29.
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Old 2008-07-06, 19:59   Link #598
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Because I was asked and asked. So I will put it here..instead
I see how you can speculate all that, but I really think you're giving Sheryl too much credit.

The way I see it, she doesn't really pay attention to people. Having her attention is some kind of gift she bequeaths at her leisure. You should feel honored if she even acknowledges your existence, let alone your presence. Actually knowing your name makes you special. This impression of her's is reinforced every time she talks to Ranka. Not with, to. Trite lines from a motivational speaker's playbook and the way she seems to look past or above Ranka, it's like she doesn't even consider her as another person.

She doesn't generally think about or consider other people. Only Alto for whatever reason. "Being Sheryl over just Sheryl" has less to do with how he looks at her than how other people look at her I wager. Heaven forbid she acknowledge the mooks that buy into her music and performances as other humans who deserve to be treated as though they have at least the right to live. Can't break the illusion that she's somehow above and superior to them.

So, she's not aware of how Ranka feels about Alto, because Ranka is beneath her notice. For Sheryl to be threatened by Ranka, it'd be like me being threatened by the fact an ant can lift fifty times it's own weight. That Alto would favor Ranka over herself is inconcieveable. Like a McDonald's over a 5 Star Restaurant.

Sheryl's not insecure. She's blinded by confidence and is exceedingly arrogant.
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Old 2008-07-06, 20:14   Link #599
nanatsusaya
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Can anyone give /facepalm again?

If Sheryl ever looks at Ranka then she's a selfish bitch bursting with jealousy and insecurity.
If Sheryl never looks at Ranka then she's a selfish bitch who cares only for herself...

None of those is the case

So you think Sheryl would give someone who she didn't even consider as a person advices and supports? Sheryl respected and saw potential in Ranka's voice. It is the contrary, Ranka's the one who never looks past her idol admiration and insecurity to actually care for Sheryl as a person.

Last edited by nanatsusaya; 2008-07-06 at 20:27.
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Old 2008-07-06, 20:43   Link #600
squaresphere
Macross Lifer!
 
 
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Better question now is how is Sheryl going to evolve now that Grace is gone. Does she know how to access her money? What about media contacts and contract obligations.

Once we get past the current Vajra battle it'll be interesting to see what slant will be taken with her.
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