AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Games

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-07-02, 17:16   Link #21
DarkWarrior
Anaheim Electronics
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
So yeah, I was checking out this company, and was pretty excited until I stumbled on to this. http://www.mangagamer.com/hentai/Titles/Schedule

Ok, what the fuck, 50 Euros (or 80 USD) for the download edition of Da Capo? I'll pass.
DarkWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-05, 00:17   Link #22
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWarrior View Post
Ok, what the fuck, 50 Euros (or 80 USD) for the download edition of Da Capo? I'll pass.
Out of curiosity, is it just because it's a download edition, or because you just plain wouldn't pay that price for the game anyway?

Anyway, glad to see it's all fully-confirmed and everything at AX. Sketchy though the company may seem (since they are clearly just starting), they did license the games from Circus. So I'll remove the "apparently" from the thread's title, and be happy to purchase the games again in English (even if, like everyone, I have huge misgivings about DRM).
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-06, 13:07   Link #23
Village Idiot
Fate/ Stay Night
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
I won't buy it because:

1) Its Da Capo and not Plus Communication.
2) DRM. Needs online vertification in order to run. What happens if the company goes under and the vertification server goes down? Will it mean my $80 is completely wasted?
__________________
Sig removed by Mod (xris) because at 65,726 bytes it exceeds the limits as requested in the forum rules.
Village Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-06, 15:12   Link #24
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
I won't buy it because:

1) Its Da Capo and not Plus Communication.
2) DRM. Needs online vertification in order to run. What happens if the company goes under and the vertification server goes down? Will it mean my $80 is completely wasted?
Well, it's not as if there won't be ways around the latter quickly enough after release, but I personally think it's still worth buying simply because if no one buys it, they won't release future games, and Circus mentioned that the next two they're thinking of are D.C.P.C. and D.C. II. Someone's got to support them in the early days to prove/make this a viable market. I guess I almost see it as a donation with a benefit. In this market, that's about our only hope, I think.
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-06, 15:23   Link #25
2H-Dragon
Silent Warrior
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Netherlands
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, it's not as if there won't be ways around the latter quickly enough after release, but I personally think it's still worth buying simply because if no one buys it, they won't release future games, and Circus mentioned that the next two they're thinking of are D.C.P.C. and D.C. II. Someone's got to support them in the early days to prove/make this a viable market. I guess I almost see it as a donation with a benefit. In this market, that's about our only hope, I think.
You'd waste 80 dollars on a lottery ticket with a grand prize that ain't that grand? I refuse to support something that isn't even smart enough to realize how epic fail it is to release an erogame without the actual cd. VN is a niche market and that market is filled with collectors. The cost to make a cd with booklet ain't that expensive anyhow. I dislike naive companies. I say this is their first and last project tbh.
2H-Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-06, 20:50   Link #26
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Saitama, Japan
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
^ Your analogy is a bit flawed: in your example, you are expecting the grand prize, but things are, you don't know if you will get it (which is quite expensive for 80$).
Meanwhile, you know what you will get (granted, you can also checks the previous buyers to see if it is really worth the deal), so where is the problem?

I agree with relentless: even if the whole deal isn't exactly the best we can get, it is a positive step towards the localization of eroge outside of japan. Frankly speaking, even if the said attempt will hardly be that popular (especially considering that non japanese market, aside of backbone fans and collectors, would hardly spend more than 50$ for a game), the result might be a good "experiment" for others to venture in such field.

If it is going well, I believe it will be the best for the western market.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2008-07-06 at 21:01.
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-06, 21:08   Link #27
DragoonKain3
Osana-Najimi Shipper
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
I really REALLY want the physical copies, and I'll gladly pay 80 bucks (or even as much as 120) in a heartbeat to get an English version of Da Capo.

But virtual copies? I'm not sure about this. I DESPISE DRM with a passion, as time and time again it's hardly a deterrent to would be pirates (in fact, a lot see it as a challenge or a puzzle to crack) and only a nuisance to legal consumers. On the otherhand, it would give a good precedent for more of these coming this side of the Pacific. Then again, the usual english ero publishers are still steadily releasing decent titles (even amongst loads of crap ones), so I'm not so sure if this is the way to support eroges.

Oh well, I've got a couple of months to decide before they release DC.
__________________

Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever
Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)
DragoonKain3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-07, 00:10   Link #28
2H-Dragon
Silent Warrior
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Netherlands
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
^ Your analogy is a bit flawed: in your example, you are expecting the grand prize, but things are, you don't know if you will get it (which is quite expensive for 80$).
Meanwhile, you know what you will get (granted, you can also checks the previous buyers to see if it is really worth the deal), so where is the problem?
Yeah that's why I called it a lotery. o-O

No, I don't know what I will get since this game on it self witout the CD/box/booklet. Is hardly worth 80 dollar. Relentless saw it as an investement in the future, but chances are they will get bankrupt are pretty good. Which also means they are somewhat fucking up our chances even more of us getting VN's. Since companies are even more afraid of investing in this market. Even it they sell enough for a next release who says to will?
2H-Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-07, 00:17   Link #29
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Saitama, Japan
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Again, I don't have any idea why you say it is a lottery despite you don't have any problem to know beforehand what you will get, that's all. You can even get detailed informations from feedbacks, hence it isn't random and you get what you know, until you are a bad customer who doesn't inform himself beforehand.

Also, I don't even think it is a problem, as even if it will be unpopular, the fact such kind of soft can be spread would be enough to show that such market is possible. Heck, if Circus is willing to risk in the adventure, I don't see how it will be a turn off for other companies.
You are basically sealing the deal that "bad sellings => even more problems". Actually, it would be a fine experiment to see what are the weak points and so on. That would prevent companies to do the same mistake, that doesn't mean they will forsake such market. Otherwise, G collection and other of such stuff would sink from ages ago (especially considering the amount of crap, with the few good soft drown in the mass).
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-07, 06:24   Link #30
Littm
ちょうど楽しみなさい
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere...
Age: 26
This kind of market is not really popular nowadays still, most of us prefer an original game copy with hardcover, box and printings. So, as Klashikari already said, this is also an experiment.

Maybe, a lot of people can be interested in this or... not, we still don't know an overall final quality of their translations. But this is really interesting, because they are not planing to sell this translated games in original way with covers, printings and so on. Quite risky experiment.
Littm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-07, 06:51   Link #31
Littm
ちょうど楽しみなさい
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere...
Age: 26
Ah, also, yes, there is Steam, everyone knows it, but don't forget that ero-games is still a specific-category everywhere except Japan and not really mass-selling and popular in the world.

Of course, if this experiment will be successful, that means, that soon we can see different well-known amazing games like products from Key, Type Moon and so on. Or maybe... this is an another company with crappy translations with idea only to "sell this faster".

Last edited by Littm; 2008-07-07 at 07:06.
Littm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-07, 07:03   Link #32
2H-Dragon
Silent Warrior
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Netherlands
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Again, I don't have any idea why you say it is a lottery despite you don't have any problem to know beforehand what you will get, that's all. You can even get detailed informations from feedbacks, hence it isn't random and you get what you know, until you are a bad customer who doesn't inform himself beforehand.
You know if someone makes a post the least you could do is also read the quote with the post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, it's not as if there won't be ways around the latter quickly enough after release, but I personally think it's still worth buying simply because if no one buys it, they won't release future games, and Circus mentioned that the next two they're thinking of are D.C.P.C. and D.C. II. Someone's got to support them in the early days to prove/make this a viable market. I guess I almost see it as a donation with a benefit. In this market, that's about our only hope, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Also, I don't even think it is a problem, as even if it will be unpopular, the fact such kind of soft can be spread would be enough to show that such market is possible. Heck, if Circus is willing to risk in the adventure, I don't see how it will be a turn off for other companies.
You are basically sealing the deal that "bad sellings => even more problems". Actually, it would be a fine experiment to see what are the weak points and so on. That would prevent companies to do the same mistake, that doesn't mean they will forsake such market. Otherwise, G collection and other of such stuff would sink from ages ago (especially considering the amount of crap, with the few good soft drown in the mass).
Nice experiment? Yeah sure, but you know what most companies do when a experiment fails? They don't try again they move on especially with something as niche as the VN market.
2H-Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-07, 13:39   Link #33
rg4619
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
This kind of market is not really popular nowadays still, most of us prefer an original game copy with hardcover, box and printings.
With the casual, indy, and even mainstream game markets, digital distribution is picking up fast (due to user convenience and larger profit margins; some niche publishers like Koei are digital only in North America), with packaged games losing more ground every year. The console market is also expected to take the leap, although I think most mainstream publishers want to offer both digital and retail options.

The idea of downloading isn't crazy. There's a sizable market for it. However, those with an otaku mindset (probably most of the potential customers) might be opposed since collectible merchandise is a big part of their fandom.

Quote:
But virtual copies? I'm not sure about this. I DESPISE DRM with a passion, as time and time again it's hardly a deterrent to would be pirates (in fact, a lot see it as a challenge or a puzzle to crack) and only a nuisance to legal consumers.
Well, the most important point is that they're selling provisional licenses rather than long-term ones. Basically, the system is designed to give customers enough time to clear the game they've purchased (with two re-activations in case of hardware failure or an emergency OS reinstall, in the weeks/months following purchase), which is all they're concerned about.

Most gamers are accustomed to long-term, future-proof licenses (many even transferable, in the case of packaged software), where you have a disc for re-installation five years down the road or an online service that allows you to reactivate on new computers. With MangaGamer, I think a purchase can be compared to paid online streaming (or maybe old movie ticket rules, where customers were allowed to watch repeat showings as long as they remained inside the theater), but without a stringent time limit since visual novels can get lengthy.
rg4619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-07, 18:15   Link #34
Seditary
Ooooo what?!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Someplace cold :(
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
With MangaGamer, I think a purchase can be compared to paid online streaming (or maybe old movie ticket rules, where customers were allowed to watch repeat showings as long as they remained inside the theater), but without a stringent time limit since visual novels can get lengthy.
And that's totally ridiculous. For one example, I still have a modded PS1 setup with my TV to play old NTSC (I'm in a PAL country) RPGs from time to time, I don't want a game service akin to online streaming, I want something I know will be there 10 years from now if I get the urge.
__________________
Seditary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-08, 00:03   Link #35
Snuffle
likes cute things
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Need more imoutos
Age: 33
I'm going to have to agree with wanting the physical copy and something that will be useable 10 yrs from now. About a year ago I was playing Full Throttle, Sam and Max, and Day of the Tentacle. It was a great feeling, no worries about them not being useable/playable.

80 bucks is a tad high but I spent more on things that weren't even worth it so its not a big deal. But the activation? Na, no deal. Not to try and change the topic, but it's the same reason I did not buy Mass Effect and it was my most anticipated game of the year for PC . And I'm still upset about it.

IMO, G-Collections has it right. There was a time they were going to put DRM on all of their products but backed down and decided to put it on only downloadable purchases. So their discs are just install and play, no cd-key or anything, and I'm happy about that. I think it was Peter Payne himself that made that decision, not to sure.
Snuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-08, 01:44   Link #36
rg4619
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
IMO, G-Collections has it right. There was a time they were going to put DRM on all of their products but backed down and decided to put it on only downloadable purchases. So their discs are just install and play, no cd-key or anything, and I'm happy about that. I think it was Peter Payne himself that made that decision, not to sure.
Correct, although it was actually JAST USA that debated on the matter. G-Collections withdrew from the market after implementing their authentication system (the parent company was in dire financial straits. They now focus on developing and selling DRM), and the business was sold. That's when Peter Payne considered incorporating the same scheme on all his other releases.

Quote:
I want something I know will be there 10 years from now if I get the urge.
I don't mind short-term licenses if prices are low (up to $20, maybe. The Gametap subscription service is also a great deal even though you don't own any of the games). However, a 50 Euro price tag is insane.
rg4619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-08, 23:57   Link #37
Asrialys
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Age: 26
Haha, I hope this Edelweiss trial I got from Anime Expo was just a quick job in regards to translation (far less text than what's spoken). Lots of (rather humorous) spelling and grammar mistakes everywhere. At least they're consistent by misspelling the same words the same way? I'm actually interested in Edelweiss, but the trial worries me.

Funny misspelling (speaker on the right)

They meant a camera flash. It's spoken in Engrish and does sound like "flush" though...
__________________
Asrialys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-09, 19:44   Link #38
kyouray
2D > 3D
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asrialys View Post
Haha, I hope this Edelweiss trial I got from Anime Expo was just a quick job in regards to translation (far less text than what's spoken). Lots of (rather humorous) spelling and grammar mistakes everywhere. At least they're consistent by misspelling the same words the same way? I'm actually interested in Edelweiss, but the trial worries me.
Same feeling. That was engrish but the game is fun.
__________________
kyouray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-10, 00:29   Link #39
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
For the people lamenting about the lack of a packaged product, I recommend reading zalas's panel transcript and interview article. In short, it seems that at least Circus doesn't believe that packaged products are a viable option for them at least until they've confirmed the level of product interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
Well, the most important point is that they're selling provisional licenses rather than long-term ones. Basically, the system is designed to give customers enough time to clear the game they've purchased (with two re-activations in case of hardware failure or an emergency OS reinstall, in the weeks/months following purchase), which is all they're concerned about.
I'm sure that this isn't actually the intent of the activation scheme. They just haven't thought the whole thing through, as happens in the early stages of nearly every activation scheme out there. I'd be willing to bet that any legitimate paying customer that contacts them with an activation problem will be able to have that issue resolved; that's what always happens in these sorts of situations. This is intended to be "pay-to-own", not "pay-to-rent".

And, incidentally, the whole "oh no! What'll happen if they go bankrupt?!" thing assumes that this DRM will be so effective that it'll be 100% tamper-proof. If this little no-name company manages to pull that off, then what are they doing in this tiny market?
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-13, 19:41   Link #40
AvatarST
◕‿‿◕
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Argentina
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to AvatarST Send a message via MSN to AvatarST
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
And, incidentally, the whole "oh no! What'll happen if they go bankrupt?!" thing assumes that this DRM will be so effective that it'll be 100% tamper-proof. If this little no-name company manages to pull that off, then what are they doing in this tiny market?
A thousand times this. Paying for the product is simply a way to support it and to do the legit thing rather than pirating. If you really want the game, don't worry; people will find a way around DRM, and even if they go bankrupt, you'll be able to play the game if that's what you care about, since a workaround is bound to come out well before then.

I say it's worth it, I'll probably buy this as well. If they're gonna translate titles with this much text and of this quality then god knows it's worth it.
__________________
AvatarST is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.