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Old 2008-07-11, 21:18   Link #1041
nadare
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It is Allen. After all, it was Allen's flashback scene. After the flashback you can see that Allen was really reminiscing the past.

Edit: And why wouldn't it be Allen? If it wasn't Allen it would leave a plot hole in the chapter. It couldn't be cross either since Cross should be as old as Mana. Then ask yourself what was the purpose of the flashback scene if it wasn't Allen? That scene would be pointless.
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Old 2008-07-11, 21:22   Link #1042
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by nadare View Post
It is Allen. After all, it was Allen's flashback scene. After the flashback you can see that Allen was really reminiscing the past
Whose past is it? As I see it, his memories are already being mixed together with that of the 14th's.
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Old 2008-07-11, 21:25   Link #1043
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Whose past is it? As I see it, his memories are already being mixed together with that of the 14th's.
Even more impossible it would be the 14th. Page 4 of the latest chapter Mana asked "By the way, young man... Who were you again?" If they were brothers Mana wouldn't be asking that question.

It is clearly Allen.
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Old 2008-07-11, 21:25   Link #1044
Ardi220288
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I personally think that Cross has to fit inside this somewhere. How did he know that the 14th and Mana were brothers if he wasn't close to them?
what do you mean? cross probably make a deal with 14th or something it's just haven't showed in the flashback

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Originally Posted by nadare View Post
Even more impossible it would be the 14th. Page 4 of the latest chapter Mana asked "By the way, young man... Who were you again?" If they were brothers Mana wouldn't be asking that question.

It is clearly Allen.
agreed and they showed that 14th and mana at the same age (probably twins) while in the flashback mana looks alot alot older than allen - it's just not possible
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Old 2008-07-11, 21:28   Link #1045
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Turn to page 7 of the latest chapter everyone.

On the last left corner of the page. Mana said "You were Allen's friend weren't you..."

If he isn't Allen. probably another Allen? Highly Unlikely.
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Old 2008-07-11, 21:31   Link #1046
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Originally Posted by nadare View Post
Even more impossible it would be the 14th. Page 4 of the latest chapter Mana asked "By the way, young man... Who were you again?" If they were brothers Mana wouldn't be asking that question.

It is clearly Allen.
I was actually refering to the clown being the 14th and Cross being the kid.

Allen, Allen... Unless Cross's original name is not Cross, but Allen...

Like I said, no solid ground under my speculation. Hope that next week, we'll have more. If the Noah takes the satge next week, I think I'll go a bit crazy.
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Old 2008-07-11, 21:37   Link #1047
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I was actually refering to the clown being the 14th and Cross being the kid.
Impossible. Cross was already in the order back then. He should be as old as Mana to even be able to "Protect" him.

And Mana already said it was Allen. Turn to page 7, I say!.

And on page 12 look at Allen's background its Mana as he have never met the 14th. And that background is identical to the clown he met at the flashback scene.

Edit: Meh I give up. If solid evidence can't convince you, probably nothing will.
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Old 2008-07-11, 21:41   Link #1048
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Originally Posted by nadare View Post
Impossible. Cross was already in the order back then. He should be as old as Mana to even be able to "Protect" him.

And Mana already said it was Allen. Turn to page 7, I say!.

And on page 12 look at Allen's background its Mana as he have never met the 14th. And that background is identical to the clown he met at the flashback scene.
When DID Cross enter the Order anyway?

What I'm absolutely certain is that Cross had a hand in the whole business. Mana, the 14th, him and Allen: these 4 are the Earl's biggest concerns.

Road mentioned that the 14th tried to kill the Earl. With the 14th's death in the hands of the Earl, Mana became the target. Despite Cross's efforts, Mana still got bumped off. I think we can agree on this sequence of events.
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Old 2008-07-11, 22:58   Link #1049
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wait...didn't allen got his innocence (active) after he turned Mana into an Akuma ?
and the kid we saw had a parasite type hand...so , how could it be Allen ?
Also , the allen named in the flashback , isn't that the dog's name ?

edit : wait , nvm . went back to look , Allen was wearing gloves.
Guess the kid in the flashback is Allen then .
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Old 2008-07-11, 23:21   Link #1050
Chaos2Frozen
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ok now I found it strange why so many people doubt it? the boy is definitely Allen and the clown is mana. Allen probably learn a gentlemen way from mana hence changed his personality -

That... Actually kinda made sense.


I knew they were forshadowing something when Johnny asked Allen why he was always being so polite...


But there's still one problem, even after taking that into account. From the pass few scenes and flashback that we have on Allen and Mana, Allen looked like a much younger child then in this current flash. In those previous times, Allen looked like he was 6-8, while this boy seem more bigger.

Even at the point of Mana's death, he looked far too young and meek compared to this current flashback Allen.
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Old 2008-07-11, 23:58   Link #1051
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The first thing I thought is that it was the 14th and the Cross. The color or hair matches Cross while it is kind of odd for Allen, attitude is somewhat the same. On page 07: It said "You were Allen's friend, too". So, I am thinking it is the Cross. The clown could also be Mana from back back then rather than the 14th; but really I don't know.

Edit: Speaking of which, the art work quality seriously improved from Chapter 1.
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:03   Link #1052
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When I saw the first page, I thought for sure "what? Lavi and Bookman when they were young!?"

Then the following pages set them up Mana and Allen, which once again Hoshino-sensei's way of storyboarding makes you @_@ over the details.

I suppose the new art retcons the ages of which Mana and Allen met and later travelled together. Allen acts far more refined now, but you can see elements of his rougher-side in that boy so it'd make sense.

The most awkward thing was the Akuma hand that the dog licked. (( It definitely doesn't look like a glove )) I'm thinking that one panel alone had Hoshino-sensei going 'symbolism!" to show that the boy is Allen. The transitions are weird though, as usual.

Other than that, the plot-twist is as what I expected. The moment they reinforced the fact that Noahs are 'humans', along with the fact that the '14th betrayed and died', it's pretty obvious that there would eventually be a Noah in the Order plot. And when they linked Allen to the 14th, either he becomes a living host, or it would turn out like Yu-Gi-Oh. :/
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Old 2008-07-12, 07:58   Link #1053
Anh_Minh
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That's seems like too drastic of a change,
Between the trauma of losing Mana, and getting picked up by Cross (thus learning various dishonest ways of getting money, including con games...), I don't see why he couldn't have a drastic change.

Quote:
in addition, why would the clown (Mana?) pretend to not know him?
Why would he know him? New body, new life, new identity. That's how reincarnation works.
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Old 2008-07-12, 08:03   Link #1054
Chaos2Frozen
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^

What I'm thinking now is that the first flashback at the begin of the chapter is indeed between Allen and Mana, as proven by the one scene later on with Allen thinking of Clown Mana.

The difference in looks between the now young Allen and the previous young Allen is due to new art retcons the ages of which Mana and Allen met and later travelled together, as Nightengale said.
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Old 2008-07-12, 18:58   Link #1055
yuchan
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Oh my god! I think that the Clown its Earl, and the boy its the 14th!... but then,, where is Mana?...
I was thinking that too. Though we did see a glimpse of the Earls human form during the chapters that focused on Tikis real civilian life right?
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Old 2008-07-14, 00:28   Link #1056
King Lycan
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Damn...I loved how the flash back was it was so awesome especially the two clowns ..i think that clown is the 14th

Um just to make sure the flash back is of Allen ..i know im late XD
Spoiler for Pic:


P.S. And still No Krory
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Old 2008-07-15, 18:38   Link #1057
Guido
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Guys, I have found evidence which supports and sustains the theory that the boy along with the clown in the flashback is, nonetheless, Allen.

Spoiler for Chapter 132, page 5:
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Old 2008-07-15, 18:48   Link #1058
yezhanquan
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I think I'll leave the dream sequence alone for a while, and talk on something we definitely know.

Now that the 14th is getting revived in Allen, I speculate that there will be a fight with Allen over who controls Allen's body. The most straightforward result is that Allen convinces the 14th to let him use his (the 14th's) powers on top of his Innocence.

In life, the 14th was loved by the Earl, who must have felt betrayed when the 14th gave away the secrets of the Ark to Mana and Cross. So, I'm reasonably certain that he will not re-join the Earl after his "return".
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Old 2008-07-15, 19:23   Link #1059
King Lycan
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He already does uses the 14th's powers(ie. controlling the ark)
Or u meant the power he had when he was an Noah..i don't think he can use that
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Old 2008-07-15, 19:26   Link #1060
yezhanquan
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He already does uses the 14th's powers(ie. controlling the ark)
Or u meant the power he had when he was an Noah..i don't think he can use that
Not without a fight. If the 14th gets his way, Allen might die, unless two souls can reside within the same body.
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