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Old 2008-07-13, 07:09   Link #761
cheesie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
Ranka, ラン
Sheryl, シェリル
Ranka's Mother, Ranshe, ランシェ


Assuming that Sheryl is either the unwanted daughter / failed clone / SOMETHING that's under Grace's control the whole time, she looks like she might actually share the same blood as Ranka and Ranshe? (Vajra?) Why does the series suddenly give off the feeling that everything will soon be crashing down on Sheryl?
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Old 2008-07-13, 09:35   Link #762
mike_s_6
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I think a subtle change, like we saw at the end of episode 12 or during her glamour shots at the photo shoot would serve her better than gaining a set of knockers.

Actually, my point is that it doesn't matter how real life growth spurts happen. Any growth spurt, or lack thereof, is mainly the function of the designers. There is little use in talking about real life stuff, in my opinion.
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Old 2008-07-13, 12:06   Link #763
Swampstorm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis View Post


Assuming that Sheryl is either the unwanted daughter / failed clone / SOMETHING that's under Grace's control the whole time, she looks like she might actually share the same blood as Ranka and Ranshe? (Vajra?) Why does the series suddenly give off the feeling that everything will soon be crashing down on Sheryl?
Well, that depends on the genotypes for blood type alpha and Oz. While we don't know anything about alpha, we could try and reach some conclusions if we knew something about type Oz (is it a variation on 'O'?) or if we knew which side of the family Ranka's Zentradi heritage comes from.
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Old 2008-07-13, 13:46   Link #764
stray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis View Post


Assuming that Sheryl is either the unwanted daughter / failed clone / SOMETHING that's under Grace's control the whole time, she looks like she might actually share the same blood as Ranka and Ranshe? (Vajra?) Why does the series suddenly give off the feeling that everything will soon be crashing down on Sheryl?
Someone on MW went even further since her last name is 'Mei' (Min-mei) Probably reaching a bit too far, but there's definitely some kind of link between Ranka and Sheryl...

As far as things crashing down... if nothing else, Sheryl will be back to form in time for the Lion single...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Well, that depends on the genotypes for blood type alpha and Oz. While we don't know anything about alpha, we could try and reach some conclusions if we knew something about type Oz (is it a variation on 'O'?) or if we knew which side of the family Ranka's Zentradi heritage comes from.
Can't say too much for Zentradi blood (aside from alot of z's) but IIRC in Zero the Nome bloodtype was Alpha/Bombay...

Last edited by stray; 2008-07-13 at 14:16.
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Old 2008-07-13, 16:58   Link #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis View Post
Someone in MW point this out:

Ranshe Mei

Ranka
Sheryl

ZOMG.
I'd say lets not read too much into the names. After all, we've been thrown off too many times before by our beloved and sneaky Macross production staffs.

Remember the Episode 11 preview? GLOBAL? Quamzin look-alike? Of course, some of you guys went so far as to claim Quamzin reborn, but we know what happened, don't we

- Tak
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Old 2008-07-14, 00:29   Link #766
BleachOD
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*Looks around at higher-ups* Then I can be myself?
Listen up you b--tards..
Now ...I am sorry I maligned your favorite character Without explaining why when you asked.. *Because I rather show so you know and don't just make assumptions*
However....
I will have righted a wrong...this time I am going to do it again... But at least this time...you'll know why. It's nothing personal. Personally...I like you Nome-er's. The way you rip through the RankaXAlto fans is fucking *Awe inspiring* At least is to people who are as rabid as myself...
Normally I wouldn't have said anything...

However, I noticed some character perceptions, that are in my opinion off. It just so happens;I think I am a good judge of character.



Young Westlo...You said
Quote:
So you are saying what Sheryl had accomplished thus far, by herself, is all due to just, erm... luck
No that's not what I mean at all...

Sure she's beautiful and beloved by various species throughout the galaxy. Psst!!*I didn't mean her career*
However the guy she wants...Has had all those things. So that does not impress him one bit


So she's out of her element when around him. He doesn't drop at her feet like all the others, so she lets her insecurities get the better of her


Let’s cut to the chase and get straight to the biggest bone of contention I have with her.
Episode 10 kiss scene…


A lot of you argued that Sheryl had no way of knowing that Ranka would see that kiss she planted on Alto.
Normally I would say “That may be true”
However her actions before the kiss is what made me see the whole thing as spiteful.
Before they get to the Island...
Alto’s on the phone with Ranka; Sheryl notices and when she does…She isn’t happy.

When we get there… (This where I need the ladies to really pay attention because chicks do things like this all the time)
First; the main star of the film, approaches Sheryl


Seemingly Sheryl snubs her as payback to Ranka. At that point and time I was like “You go girl! Put that bitch in her place!” However, I discovered that I spoke too soon…
The “Bitch she wanted to put in her place” Was really Ranka. Why do I say this…?
Exhibit A (Click the thumbnail)

She greets Ranka then smoothly slides in the “He’s with me” (Alto’s reaction I will get to but in the Romance thread).
Now that could be seen as misconstrued, however she does this…

Exhibit B (Click the thumbnail)

"I know about his personal life and you don’t” She purposely brought up Alto’s feelings regarding acting. Sheryl says “Really? I knew.” She not only implied that she has “that kind” of relationship with Alto.
She manages to make Ranka feel sad for that and the fact that he was asked to do something hates more than anything to help her.
Last she knows that She is Ranka’s Idol. She knows that Ranka is in love with him.


As Ranka runs off; Sheryl stares after her with a curious look. . In previous episodes you can see this same look. She had no remorse whatsoever. She delivered four blows at one time


Exhibit C (Click the thumbnail) Different episode same bullshit…


Here its worse. She actually smiled in her face and learned Ranka’s plans for Alto’s birthday.Only to cut her throat later…*While getting the "That lump" dig in*

So when she did this…


it wasn’t sweet to me. It was laced with malice and I didn’t enjoy it. Not to mention if you look at Alto’s expressions. His gaze is actually one of shock and then pity. He only blushes was she says she was only teasing him<--everyone does

She was not confident enough like Ranka ...*Eurys?! Orihime would shit on herself before she'd ever do that*...to just ask him to go out with her.
She knows he’s not impressed with anything she has. So what could she give him that would mean more to him than his dependency on Ranka (See; Character Discussion: “Saotome Alto”)
The only thing she couldThe sky.


I don’t like backstabbing women. I would rather you tell me to my face that you want him. Then go at him. Her smiling in Ranka’s face, then doing those things; makes me dislike her a bit. If she would just show a bit of the confidence she pretends she has. She is a hell of catch. She needs to realize this and then go after Alto.

I am not saying she should put Ranka’s feelings before hers. Not at all…I think she could do it a better way. Because given her character background. It makes her look kind of pathetic<-- (I am not trying to be insulting, just stating my opinion. *Shouldn't have asked for it*)

Sheryl’s perceived strengths…
“Watashi wa Sheryl desu!” (I am Sheryl)

For some reason this is viewed as arrogance. However, I believe that it is the reverse. This is Sheryl’s rock. (She has no one to be it so she must do it herself)

. This scene above is actually a perfect example… Let’s look at the whole scene again...



She feels bad, but then she says “Grace did you forget who I am?” She says her famous tag line then plants a serene smile on her face.


She needs to say the words to herself: only then can she believe it
Another example…



In this situation she is scared. She needs to reassure herself she then says “I am Sheryl”
Although this is proof of her insecurity …I actually liked this part and her at that moment. *I got gassed up with her*



Sheryl’s real problems
(Notice she curls in fetal position every time her child hood is mentioned. She hugs her knees and appears to be a frightened little girl again. Her tough exterior is gone…This is the REAL Sheryl)


She had no one. No love, No support, No family, No friends...

It's not surprising that she would become want to become and Idol...
Idol's are adored by millions and yet loved by no one.
To them she isn’t a person she is “Sheryl Nome”

Which is why she’s drawn to Alto…He’s handsome. He understands what being a performer is like. He treats her like she is nobody… Even as she says this…I believe it’s a bit deeper than that. She wants to be loved, needs to be loved. Her desperation to be loved makes her cling to Alto. Even as he pushes her away (He does and I will show you. Just not now: because we are talking about Sheryl)

She also displays a lack of confidence despite her being confident. Which is way I said its all “false bravado” (Introvert/Extrovert)
How did I arrive at the conclusion?!


Well…for one thing.

She doesn’t have the courage to go see Alto without an excuse. Like this one…

The guilt over his loss of her mother’s earring...
Do you know how many times she used that excuse? It was bordering on ridiculous. She used it even after she kissed him on the cheek and handed him them concert tickets. *That's when she really played her position*


She has to constantly confirm his feelings for Ranka (Or lack thereof) She constantly needs reassurance. *Rule of thumb: If you don't listen to anything listen to this. Never bring up the other woman..just makes him think about her.<--In this case that was exactly the case.*

See she can sense that Ranka is a threat to her when it comes to Alto. This is why I believe that…Although she may really like Ranka she cannot keep from being jealous of Ranka and Alto's connection. That connection makes her do things that are in my opinion…Spiteful.

Some of you view them as acts of kindness. Which I agree she has been kind to Ranka and even provided support of her. Doesn't change anything when I look at the overall character...Just I agree she has been nice at times, that is..

What believe is about Sheryl... that is often overlooked when it comes to Sheryl.(When it comes to paring her with Alto)

Her personality smothers Alto's

The reason I don't find her character too interesting...She can just get bitchier or softer. Thats it!


Okay..Ranka's thread. <--I owe it to the demons I crushed. They are probably going wtf?!? (Sheryl=Rukia & Orihime=Ranka. I DISAGREE!!)like some other people.

Then the shipping thread where I can laugh my ass off because your posts are totally contradicting what I see on my screen.

*I really did believe I was on the losing side at first*

Last edited by BleachOD; 2008-07-15 at 11:14.
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Old 2008-07-14, 00:53   Link #767
ReddyRedWolf
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So you're saying that Sheryl and Ranka are like Sara and Mao who were in love with Shin and is jealous of each other. Seriously I'm seeing aspects of Minmay with both girls.
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Old 2008-07-14, 01:03   Link #768
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Dude, I don't know where to start, but you're also spouting some real BS out there. Sheryl does not know who Alto was in the phone with in the shooting. By her virtue of professionalism, she would have called on anyone slacking on work just to make a phone call. How do we know that Alto is slacking? Look, everyone's already rigged, and he's way out there! From the viewer's standpoint (your standpoint), YOU know that Alto is talking to Ranka, but that does not mean that Sheryl does too. That's one huge leap you're making my dear.

It's so tiring to read your posts that are made using your tunnel vision. That's my final word on your exaggerated post.
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Old 2008-07-14, 01:06   Link #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post


So when she did this…


it wasn’t sweet to me. It was laced with malice and I didn’t enjoy it. Not to mention if you look at Alto’s expressions. His gaze is actually one of shock and then pity. He only blushes was she says she was only teasing him<--everyone does

And did you MISS this dialogue:

Alto: I can do it.
Sheryl: That's true, huh? It's nothing special, right? Just a kiss.
Alto: Yeah... but... for her it must be...
*kissu*

I didn't find any malice there, just Sheryl showing Alto that there's no such thing as just a kiss.
(and probably learning the same thing herself)

"Shock and Pity??" more like shock and "Does she really like me that way?" before the laughter and then the blushing and "She's teasing me again!"

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Old 2008-07-14, 01:13   Link #770
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I'm expecting some fireworks in the next 24hrs......

Not even gonna bother wasting my time on that long ass post...
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Old 2008-07-14, 01:18   Link #771
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
A lot of you argued that Sheryl had no way of knowing that Ranka would see that kiss she planted on Alto.
Normally I would say “That may be true”
However her actions before the kiss is what made me see the whole thing as spiteful.
Before they get to the Island... Alto’s on the phone with Ranka; Sheryl notices and when she does…She isn’t happy.
A fallacy... Sheryl had no way of knowing that Alto is on the phone with Ranka. Rewatch the scene, nowhere at all is anything noted by her that he should get off the phone, because it is Ranka he is talking to. She was annoyed, because she was hanging off the ceiling by some wires... not exactly the most comfortable situation to be in, while your "co-star" is letting you wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
The “Bitch she wanted to put in her place” Was really Ranka. Why do I say this…?
She greets Ranka then smoothly slides in the “He’s with me” (Alto’s reaction I will get to but in the Romance thread).
Now that could be seen as misconstrued, however she does this…
Not seeing it, sorry. Alto being with her was a result of him being assigned to be her companion by SMS. Itīs not as if she went to the island to snub Ranka, but because her song was being used in the movie, and she wanted to offer the director that sheīd write a proper song for the movie. Actually, her calling Alto over seemed to me a "How can this guy be so rude to ignore his friend?" reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
"I know about his personal life and you don’t” She purposely brought up Alto’s feelings regarding acting. Sheryl says “Really? I knew.” She not only implied that she has “that kind” of relationship with Alto.
She manages to make Ranka feel sad for that and the fact that he was asked to do something hates more than anything to help her.
Um, how did *she* bring this up? Ranka was actually the one who began talking about herself not knowing that Alto is a former actor. That Sheryl wonders why Ranka, a much closer friend to Alto than her at this point ( IMO ), doesnīt know about this... that is a legitimate question. Alto is actually quite famous, as has been cleared up just a few seconds ago in the show. Normally, that tends to be somewhat noticeable, be it talk at school or having a fricking big billboard of his dad in full make-up being displayed in the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Last she knows that She is Ranka’s Idol. She knows that Ranka is in love with him.
Actually, she doesnīt. Kindly show me the scene where Ranka tells Sheryl of her feelings for Alto. As far as I have seen, up until that point, Sheryl and Ranka talk always about how to have Rankas career take off. The shower scene in episode 8 is actually a good example of that. Itīs all shop talk about Rankas career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
As Ranka runs off; Sheryl stares after her with a curious look. . In previous episodes you can see this same look. She had no remorse whatsoever. She delivered four blows at one time
Actually, you cannot see this look in previous episodes *at all*. Episode 10 is the first time we see it.
I know this well, because I was pretty consternated at that time how they re-used it three times in that episode, how they never had used it before and how it made Sheryl very hard to read at those moments.

They used it when Alto got wind that heīd be doing a kissing scene and walked off, at that moment after Ranka decided sheīd need some time alone and ran off and when Sheryl went "Shields up!" to play over the fact how she was affected by kissing Alto.

In conjunction with seeing how you chose to interpret it, I think I can finally say that the writers intended it to be moments of deep insight for Sheryl. Insight into Alto ( he isnīt that stoic after all ), insight into Ranka ( she has feelings for Alto ) and insight into herself ( ZOMG, I have real feelings for that guy! ).

So, thanks for that, for a good time I was really wracking my brain what those pensive expression was all about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Here its worse. She actually smiled in her face and learned Ranka’s plans for Alto’s birthday.Only to cut her throat later…*While getting the "That lump" dig in*
Yeah, itīs a matter of interpretation. I rather see it as giving Alto he choice of what heīd like for his birthday. But I am not *that* much of a Sheryl fan that I donīt see how the motivation may have been to undercut Rankas claim on Alto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
So when she did this…
it wasn’t sweet to me. It was laced with malice and I didn’t enjoy it. Not to mention if you look at Alto’s expressions. His gaze is actually one of shock and then pity. He only blushes was she says she was only teasing him<--everyone does


That is a terrible interpretation of that scene. Sorry, no other way to say it. First off, you assign Sheryl maliciousness as a motive, which is plainly wrong. She was teasing Alto about his insecurity and she was in a way laying claim on Alto. As she already had developed feelings for him, I think this is not a bad thing to do at this point for her. However, it backfired on her because she didnīt expect the kiss to elicit the feelings she obviously got out of it.

As far as Alto "pitying" her, I have *never* read anyone else interpreting it as such. I saw it as complete shock at what Sheryl had done, because he interpreted it ( correctly ) to be a declaration of her feelings. If you then saw "pity" in his face, I fear you are pretty alone in this assessment.

I need to go to work now. Iīll try to read and dissect the rest of your post later, but I cannot promise anything, work is for working after all and I need to prepare for my Dungeons and Dragons session after that, canīt disappoint my players with a badly planned session tomorrow.
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Old 2008-07-14, 01:23   Link #772
Wesley84
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Your main error is classifying Sheryl as a methodical bitch, rather than your everyday, generic, self-centered bitch. She doesn't know how Ranka feels, and there's no indication that she'd care if she did know. She probably is worried about Alto abandoning her, but that's less to do with Ranka and Alto and more about Sheryl's own selfishness.
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Old 2008-07-14, 01:27   Link #773
mike_s_6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuchiro View Post
I'm expecting some fireworks in the next 24hrs......

Not even gonna bother wasting my time on that long ass post...
Good for you

By the way, I just wanted to say, the amount of screenshots (on scenes which everyone has obviously seen) and the amount of formatted text does not add water to arguments. Two cents.
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Old 2008-07-14, 01:39   Link #774
Eurys
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
She was not confident enough like Ranka ...*Eurys?! Orihime would shit on herself before she'd ever do that*...to just ask him to go out with her.
WTH?
Sorry but keep me out of your huge shipping posts please, I don't want to play that game.

Nothing you'll say will change my mind about Sheryl and how wonderful her character is, in all her flaws and virtues, especially not your twisted misogynistic arguments.
As for the shipping, I don't care much anymore, I like Sheryl on her own because she's just that awesome.

So in short, don't mention me anymore.
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Old 2008-07-14, 02:26   Link #775
Swampstorm
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BleachOD:

Episode 10:
When Sheryl is on the job, she's fully focused. In episode five, she shows irritation when she's distracted from working on her lyrics, even though she's on a date. In episode six, we see her running through her concert step by step, meticulously looking after each detail of her concert. So it's to be expected that she'd tell Alto off for slacking on the job.

If you rewatch that scene in from the start of episode ten, you'll see that Sheryl is far enough away from Alto that they both need to shout to communicate. As such, there's no way that she'd know who he's talking to. Not that it matters, either; they both have a job to do, and it needs to get done. That's professionalism.

If you recall the part of episode three where Alto, Sheryl, and Ranka are trapped in the shelter, Ranka is initially frightened and clings to Alto. His first response is to show irritation, but Sheryl then points out that he ought to say something comforting to her. This was even before she knew Alto well enough to develop an interest in him.

Sheryl's lines in episode ten are an echo of those earlier words. Alto is on set, but he chooses to hang back rather than coming over to support his friend. So it's only natural for Sheryl to once again point out that he isn't being supportive. She isn't shy about challenging his opinions when she disagrees with him.

Of course, I can see why that level of familiarity might make some people feel uncomfortable.

Regarding Alto's past, it is rather odd that Ranka is supposedly close friends with Alto but yet doesn't know that he comes from a famous acting family. As the outsider to the group, Sheryl is no doubt surprised to find that Ranka doesn't know when she herself knows, despite only having known him for a few months. That being said, Ranka became upset only after she found that Luca knew as well, as it reinforced her insecurities about Alto not being honest with her (as we first saw back in episode six).

The birthday present had nothing to do with the kiss, so I'm not sure why you interlaced that part in the middle.

The kiss is a sort of unspoken question between Sheryl and Alto. She likes him, but she's afraid of expressing it directly. Alto seems to catch a glimpse of this, which is why he starts to ask for clarification, but she's unable to follow through and is forced to cover it up.

Had Alto given her some sort of a sign in his reaction, then she'd have an idea of whether he felt the same way about her. But Alto himself is too confused by her actions to give her a coherent response.

Episode 11:
The process by which Sheryl arrives at her choice of a gift is very interesting in itself. In order to come up with it, she had to recognize the opportunity that her trip to Galia-4 presented Alto. But in order to do that, she had to first internalize Alto's dream and make it a priority of her own.

The way in which both the scriptwriters and Aya Endo conveyed that scene was absolutely magnificent. You can see her face absolutely light up when she recognizes that she has a chance to fulfill Alto's dreams. She puts on a bit of a show at first, but the instant that she tells Alto about the idea, you can hear a sudden switch in her voice. There's a breathless, earnest excitement there, that shows that she's genuinely thrilled that Alto can finally fulfill his dreams. At that instant, she goes from being Sheryl Nome, the entertainer, to simply Sheryl, a girl who finds happiness in the happiness of the one whom she loves.

Strengths:
For an idol, Sheryl is surprisingly grounded. In episode ten, for example, she comes right out and states that her music is inappropriate for the movie - but she also follows it up by offering to try to write a song that does suit the movie. This is the essence of Sheryl's strength - her adaptability.

In episode twelve, Sheryl has the option of staying on Galia-4 and waiting around. But she chooses to get in the VF, either with or without Michael. The reason is simple. There's something that needs to be done, and it's within her power to do it.

In episode thirteen, Sheryl is placed in a situation outside of her usual experience. But she also recognizes that Michael is injured, and she needs to get back behind friendly lines as soon as she can. The meaning of the statement "I am Sheryl" is quite simple: when there's nobody around who she can depend on, she must first depend on herself. So once again, she shows that she has the guts to step up to plate and do what needs to be done, even in the face of fear. That's real courage. (Incidently, had she stuck around where she was, they probably would both have been wiped out by the reaction missiles.)

We don't know anything about why Sheryl decided to become an idol, but given how much she loves writing lyrics, I'd guess that her love of music was a strong part of it. But anything on this issue is pure speculation.

One of the most wonderful things to watch about Sheryl's love for Alto is the fact that it doesn't depend on how he responds. Even when Alto is apparently focused on getting Ranka back from the Vajra, she supports him wholeheartedly, even throwing herself into the middle of danger in order to do so. Even when she struggled to get out of bed in order to help him get his present, she was completely focused outwards at him, rather than inwards at herself.

Sheryl doesn't feel the need to be loved so much as she feels the need to love. That quality is what makes her feelings ring so true.

Episode Eight:
In episode eight, Sheryl shows how well she understands Alto. We all understand the emphasis that Alto places on fulfilling obligations. So it's not surprising that he's been harboring some guilt over the issue.

We also saw, along with Sheryl, that Alto hates recieving concessions from anyone, back in episode three. So for Sheryl to simply tell him to drop the issue would do nothing to ease his guilt (there's actually an interesting blog entry that details her feelings about the loss further, dated 'May 8th, 2059': http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1655242) So instead, she gives him a rather simple task to complete that allows him to atone and overcome feelings of guilt, before finally releasing him of that burden at the end of the episode. We never hear the issue raised again. That showed real class.

Sheryl doesn't need a reason to be with Alto, given that Nanase reports in to Ranka in episode eleven that the two are often in each others' company. There are only so many excuses that a person can come up with in a given day...

Incidentally, that one time that Sheryl brings up Ranka in episode five is to determine whether he was in a relationship with Ranka, or if the two were just good friends. When Alto made it clear that he wasn't romantically involved with Ranka, they then proceeded to start out on their date. It's a fairly important question to get out of the way before setting out.

Summary:
Sheryl understands Alto. She takes the time to listen to his concerns, and to try to understand his feelings. She knows that both she and him have jobs to do, and she has no trouble in setting her personal feelings aside in order to see that those duties are fulfilled.

Sheryl has a realistic view of Alto's strengths and weaknesses. If she disagrees with his behavior, she isn't afraid of calling him up on it. When he needs support, she steps in and gives it to him. When he seems uncomfortable about discussing an issue, she backs off and gives him space. Where others choose to present Alto with obligations and demands, Sheryl supports his hopes and dreams.

Strange though it may seem, dysfunctional relationships are so much in vogue these days that it's rare to see a straightforward, mature romance like this one. But that's what makes Sheryl and Alto's relationship so refreshing to watch.
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Old 2008-07-14, 02:35   Link #776
mike_s_6
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^ Dude, did you see that guy's other post? He's determined that he's correct (even if you don't admit it, he says), I suppose it's futile to even try to put reason in your replies :\
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Old 2008-07-14, 02:38   Link #777
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There are four types of people in any "audience":
1) People who agree with you
2) People who disagree with you
3) People who are undecided
4) People who don't care

The point of any persuasive work is to address the third category.
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Old 2008-07-14, 02:39   Link #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
For an idol, Sheryl is surprisingly grounded. In episode ten, for example, she comes right out and states that her music is inappropriate for the movie - but she also follows it up by offering to try to write a song that does suit the movie. This is the essence of Sheryl's strength - her adaptability.
That word is just sexy now after Sheryl... mmm adaptability...

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Old 2008-07-14, 03:03   Link #779
mike_s_6
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
There are four types of people in any "audience":
1) People who agree with you
2) People who disagree with you
3) People who are undecided
4) People who don't care

The point of any persuasive work is to address the third category.
I suppose I'll disagree with you there, I think persuasion works with #2-4 (case in point me, who used to think that it's futile for anyone to reply to this person). But of course you do make a point that you should reply, if it's a personal purpose to address #3.

Bring on the debate I suppose, I'll just watch from the sidelines for this one
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Old 2008-07-14, 03:14   Link #780
Swampstorm
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_s_6 View Post
I suppose I'll disagree with you there, I think persuasion works with #2-4. But of course you do make a point that you should reply, if it's a personal purpose to address #3.
At the end of the day, everyone makes up their mind on their own. So no matter how sound your logic may be, nobody will ever agree with you unless they themselves choose to. A person who is undecided is still open to new ideas, and is also interested in seeing different points of view. So it's your responsibility to present that person with as much information as is needed to enable him/her to reach the appropriate decision.

If you try to convince the person whom you are debating with, you often enough get entrenched in irrelevant side issues, and nobody gains any sort of insight from the discussion. You can't beat someone into submission with logic.

It might sound like a rather limited approach, but that's just the practical reality of the situation. It's better to put your energy where it's most useful.
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Last edited by Swampstorm; 2008-07-14 at 03:28.
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