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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10 216 59.18%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 84 23.01%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 28 7.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 4.11%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 1.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 0.82%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 0.55%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 0.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 9 2.47%
Voters: 365. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-16, 20:56   Link #1081
FuzzyWuzzy
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Suzaku drugged Kallen. Anyone who have doubts obviously haven't been watching Code Geass R2.
If Kallen isn't drugged, she was saved by someone. However, it is clearly obvious that Suzaku will do it.

Also the drug makes the person forget reality completely. They won't even know if they are talking to someone, if someone else is in the room, or if no one is there. Of course, they can't tell a friend from a foe. This is the part where a person can simply ask a question and get an answer.

Suzaku doesn't want to know who Zero is. He just wants to know if Lelouch is Zero. Big difference in terms of vengeance.
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Old 2008-07-16, 20:59   Link #1082
bladeofdarkness
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Man your scale is clearly in one direction...Can't really come to a common agreement with this as your ground Zero so to speak...So he's exploiting her by taking an action that is ultimatley trying to progress the agenda of her and Euffie's common dream...A dream he shares? Now you can say he's going about it the wrong way or that their's a pepper-shake of selfishness in his actions, but to that end of advancing that dream of becoming a KoOne and building a protected area for all people this is what he feels he has to do...Confirm Lulu's involvment...
what ever agenda he might belive she and he share
there is no way no how no chance in hell that he belives she would agree with hes actions if she knew it was aimed against her brother
he knows that if she learned he was her brothers enemy she would turn against him in a heartbeat
thats why he is lying to her about lulu being missing and telling her not to talk to milly and the others
too bad for him that she already knows he's lying to her (ep 6) and i think she also suspects that lulu is zero
that might be why she took kallen in to her custody
and why she raised the matter of lulu's absence in their talk (she thinks that if lulu is zero then kallen could tell her more)
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:04   Link #1083
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
People will answer alot of questions truthfully while under the influence, trust me^^...It's called inhibitions and breaking them down...Although I think the idea of him getting her addicted then taking it away from her to force her to give the name would make for very harsh and dramatic tension, which in a televised drama would be welcomed for my money...But I am centered enuff to enjoy something in a literary sense that I wouldn't champion in the real-life...
Regular drugs do that. Refrain does not. It makes people hallucinate about happier times. There's no inhibitions being broken down, just old memories being forcibly recalled. There's no basis in the show for this being a viable method of interrogation. People don't even acknowledge those around them, much less truthfully answer questions.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:08   Link #1084
bladeofdarkness
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the drug makes you completely lose touch with reallity
kallens mom didnt notice that she was being carried by a KMF who was at the time fighting against another KMF
what on earth makes suzaku think that this would get him answers (keep in mind that even if she does refer to lulu being zero it could just mean she's talking about the event of season 1)
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:08   Link #1085
Var
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Man your scale is clearly in one direction...Can't really come to a common agreement with this as your ground Zero so to speak...So he's exploiting her by taking an action that is ultimatley trying to progress the agenda of her and Euffie's common dream...A dream he shares? Now you can say he's going about it the wrong way or that their's a pepper-shake of selfishness in his actions, but to that end of advancing that dream of becoming a KoOne and building a protected area for all people this is what he feels he has to do...Confirm Lulu's involvment...
I don't recall Nunally's dream ever including drugging people against their will, nor Euphies. Their entire dream is to have people come to an understanding of one another without being forced into it, free choice. What Suzaku is doing is not that, he is forcing his own vendetta onto Kallen and using Shirley's death as justification. Refrain will tell him nothing, it is torture to Kallen, not information gathering. He is using her to get back at Lelouch pure and simple. Refrain is not a truth serum, it has no truth relaying affects.

Remember, also, that Nunally offered Zero to join her. She would likely offer the same to Kallen, but that does not work for Suzaku.

KoO cannot do as you said, he simply gains governorship over an area. He cannot just make laws to equalize the Britannians and the 11s. Euphemia made that clear in that she had to give up everything to do it. And she was the Vicereign. If she as a royal and vicereign does not have the ability, Suzaku does not.

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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
People will answer alot of questions truthfully while under the influence, trust me^^...It's called inhibitions and breaking them down...Although I think the idea of him getting her addicted then taking it away from her to force her to give the name would make for very harsh and dramatic tension, which in a televised drama would be welcomed for my money...But I am centered enuff to enjoy something in a literary sense that I wouldn't champion in the real-life...
This is a haluconigen that makes you utterly detached from reality, you are not aware of anything around you. He can ask her whatever he wants, she will not answer him. She will blabber about the happiest time in her memory which falls on, more likely than not, her childhood with her family. Refrain does not break inhibitions. This is the equivalent to cloroforming someone and asking them questions.

Kallen being hooked on Refrain or even injected with it once has about one way of ending assuming no one consuls her out of it: Biting her tongue.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:08   Link #1086
SoldierOfDarkness
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Not to mention there's no guarantee it'll work properly.

It brings back the past (happy times). Kallen's most happiest times are obviously when her brother was still alive and such. If Suzaku uses it that's all he's going to get unless her most recent times with lelouch were really really happy.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:11   Link #1087
morbosfist
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They were certainly awkward, maybe even fond, but happy is a stretch.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:11   Link #1088
Var
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If Suzaku uses it that's all he's going to get unless her most recent times with lelouch were really really happy.
They'd have to be the TV-censored kind of happy to top her brother and family during their prime.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:13   Link #1089
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They'd have to be the TV-censored kind of happy to top her brother and family during their prime.
lol at that. But true.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:13   Link #1090
bladeofdarkness
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she did seem happy when he promised he'd save her

but i cant see it happening
i just cant see him injecting her with it (i can see him trying but i cant see him doing it)
either someone walks in
or she turns the table on him and stabs him with it herself (since we may see a lulu flashback seeing a suzaku one could work as they did spend time together as children)
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:14   Link #1091
DN24
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he knows that if she learned he was her brothers enemy she would turn against him in a heartbeat
thats why he is lying to her about lulu being missing and telling her not to talk to milly and the others
You think Nunnally would happily join the Oobk when she found out LL=Zero and he killed thousands of people in her name(including a brother and sister)?
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:15   Link #1092
Var
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
she did seem happy when he promised he'd save her

but i cant see it happening
i just cant see him injecting her with it (i can see him trying but i cant see him doing it)
either someone walks in
or she turns the table on him and stabs him with it herself (since we may see a lulu flashback seeing a suzaku one could work as they did spend time together as children)
I half expect Kallen to rip apart the dress at her legs, tie around her forehead, and go Rombo on Suzaku at the sight of Refrain. She did it for Lelouch and it wasn't even targeted at her. I'd be afraid to be in the same room as Kallen and Refrain... especially with a chair right behin her.

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Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
You think Nunnally would happily join the Oobk when she found out LL=Zero and he killed thousands of people in her name(including a brother and sister)?
Yes and no, she wouldn't join the OoBK but she would enter contact with Lelouch which would facilitate (and likely lessen the bloodshed) of a take over of Japan by the Order. From there she can save her brother.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:15   Link #1093
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
she did seem happy when he promised he'd save her

but i cant see it happening
i just cant see him injecting her with it (i can see him trying but i cant see him doing it)
either someone walks in
or she turns the table on him and stabs him with it herself (since we may see a lulu flashback seeing a suzaku one could work as they did spend time together as children)
Or he's using it as a threat.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:16   Link #1094
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
I don't recall Nunally's dream ever including drugging people against their will, nor Euphies. Their entire dream is to have people come to an understanding of one another without being forced into it, free choice. What Suzaku is doing is not that, he is forcing his own vendetta onto Kallen and using Shirley's death as justification. Refrain will tell him nothing, it is torture to Kallen, not information gathering. He is using her to get back at Lelouch pure and simple. Refrain is not a truth serum, it has no truth relaying affects.
So? I don't see why Suzaku is getting this flack. He even admits he isn't a great person earlier this season. He is no better than Lelouch and really, never was, so what the hell is the god damn problem?

Quote:
Remember, also, that Nunally offered Zero to join her. She would likely offer the same to Kallen, but that does not work for Suzaku.
Suzaku was completely betrayed by Lelouch. Why SHOULD it work for him?

Quote:
KoO cannot do as you said, he simply gains governorship over an area. He cannot just make laws to equalize the Britannians and the 11s. Euphemia made that clear in that she had to give up everything to do it. And she was the Vicereign. If she as a royal and vicereign does not have the ability, Suzaku does not.
What? Euphemia had NO real power to do ANYTHING by herself. Cornelia was Vicerine of the Area, not Euphemia. Euphie was just a figure head and there for show. WHy do you think she had to go to Schneizel for permission to even let the SAZ be open? Compare that to Nunnally, she didn't need permission. If Suzaku becomes governor of the Area, he can put in place laws.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:18   Link #1095
morbosfist
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Not laws that alter the fundamental edicts of the mainland. Oppression of the Numbers is policy. One territory cannot go against that, unless Suzaku intends to declare the whole nation part of the SAZ, which would probably be blocked by the mainland.
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:19   Link #1096
orangejuicetang
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Jeez, this is starting to remind me of the episode where Kallen got kidnapped and handed over to Suzuku, where everyone was SURE that he was either A. going to torture her to get info, or B. bring her to Charles to be mindwiped. It turned out to be something completely different. So couldn't we wait to see what happens before making any sorts of judgements?
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:20   Link #1097
Var
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So? I don't see why Suzaku is getting this flack. He even admits he isn't a great person earlier this season. He is no better than Lelouch and really, never was, so what the hell is the god damn problem?
Becuase this will: Not give him what he wants, not serve any greater good than making him feel better, has no justification, and is based on his own hatred for Lelouch.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Suzaku was completely betrayed by Lelouch. Why SHOULD it work for him?
When? I also did not mean that Nunally's offer, I was speaking that Nunally's methods do not work for what Suzaku wants.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
What? Euphemia had NO real power to do ANYTHING by herself. Cornelia was Vicerine of the Area, not Euphemia. Euphie was just a figure head and there for show. WHy do you think she had to go to Schneizel for permission to even let the SAZ be open? Compare that to Nunnally, she didn't need permission. If Suzaku becomes governor of the Area, he can put in place laws.
Cornelia gave Euphemia the title when she told her that she needed a knight, or was about to give her the title. In either case, she did not have the power, nor did Cornelia, who knew of the plan, have the power to do such a thing. She told Euphemia that the only way her idea would work is if she challenged the Emperor herself. Nunally opened the SAZ because it was an already established idea, one that failed utterly, and failed again when Nunally opened it. What chance does Suzaku have when the people he's trying to protect hate him to the core?
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:20   Link #1098
morbosfist
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Jeez, this is starting to remind me of the episode where Kallen got kidnapped and handed over to Suzuku, where everyone was SURE that he was either A. going to torture her to get info, or B. bring her to Charles to be mindwiped. It turned out to be something completely different. So couldn't we wait to see what happens before making any sorts of judgements?
What fun would that be?
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:20   Link #1099
bladeofdarkness
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Jeez, this is starting to remind me of the episode where Kallen got kidnapped and handed over to Suzuku, where everyone was SURE that he was either A. going to torture her to get info, or B. bring her to Charles to be mindwiped. It turned out to be something completely different. So couldn't we wait to see what happens before making any sorts of judgements?
he is trying to torture her for info
it just took him a few eps to get to it
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Old 2008-07-16, 21:26   Link #1100
orangejuicetang
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he is trying to torture her for info
it just took him a few eps to get to it
I doubt he would have tortured her had Shirley not died.
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