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Old 2008-07-17, 11:24   Link #61
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
you naruto fans kill me (...yeah go ahead and say youre not ),
*shrug* I'm not. If I was I'd have tought of 3921 ways for Naruto to beat Sasuke.

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
the manga is a story about perseverance vs. talent but for some reason people love this idiot so much that they want to create what they want out of it to favor him. its funny how you keep talking about these same tired ass accomplishments but when sasuke does something spectacular or unbelievable(that sometimes make naruto look like what he is - an idiot), people start complaining about it, bitching and moaning. isnt that a double standard(hes supposed to do amazing stuff, he represetn talent).
*taps chin* when did I ever bitch about Sasuke acomplishing something spectacular? I don't even hate the guy! Sure, I may be disapointed that Sasuke grew much more obviously in strength then Naruto during the timeskip, but that has more to do with the disapointment that Naruto learned virtually nothing after a long time of expectations, it doesn't mean I hate Sasuke. Why am I getting the 'lets flame Sasuke haters' treatment?

Well, and the whole 'Sharingan can control the Kyuubi' debacle. I did bitch about that. But that's more a Kyuubi thing then a Naruto/Sasuke thing. *waves "Bijuu are awesome!" flag*

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
Just face it the story is about perseverance vs. talent and naruto is supposed to be the perseverence. no wonder you guys are always hating, you make up these ridiculous theory and actually believe it instead of facts in the manga lmao. stop believing your own stories and maybe you wont be dissappointed at the manga. lol
Am I disapointed with the manga now? That's new, last I checked I was seriously anticipating Naruto's Yoda-style training and Sasuke's fight against the (really awesome) Hachibi container.

Sure, there may be elements of the manga I'm not perfectly happy with (Sanbi nerf! Boo! Hiss!), but everyone has elements in the manga he's not to happy with, that doesn't mean I'm disapointed with the manga as a whole.
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Old 2008-07-17, 12:11   Link #62
SpyderSidiouss
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Ahhh, so you wanna play the Bill O’reilly role do you? (talking a heap of shit about something and when someone trys to categorize you, you’ll say something like “well, I never actually SAID I was so&so… Bill O’reilly all the way )

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*shrug* I'm not. If I was I'd have tought of 3921 ways for Naruto to beat Sasuke.
Only 3921? Im sure you could think of more than that the way you like to make up your own ridiculousness

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*taps chin* when did I ever bitch about Sasuke acomplishing something spectacular? I don't even hate the guy! Sure, I may be disapointed that Sasuke grew much more obviously in strength then Naruto during the timeskip, but that has more to do with the disapointment that Naruto learned virtually nothing after a long time of expectations, it doesn't mean I hate Sasuke. Why am I getting the 'lets flame Sasuke haters' treatment?
*taps chin* when did I ever say YOU bitched about Sasuke accomplishing spectacular feats? (though I get the feeling I probably could find a post or two if I actually tried ) Of course you’re disappointed that naruto didn’t keep up with sasuke, you one of the lala land residents that actually think hes a genius. If I kept making up foolishness just because I wanted things to happen and actually believed it(even though the manga clearly says the opposite), I’d eventuaully be disapoitned too. since you like to use your imagination so much i recommend the "create a character" thread.
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Old 2008-07-17, 12:42   Link #63
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
Ahhh, so you wanna play the Bill O’reilly role do you? (talking a heap of shit about something and when someone trys to categorize you, you’ll say something like “well, I never actually SAID I was so&so… Bill O’reilly all the way )
I'm not the one labeling people here based loosely on the subject they discuss. And you are seriously begining to cross the border between 'discussing' and 'insulting' could you please stop that? I try to keep my posts as civil as possible, and all I get back is insults. I was quite clear from the very beginning that I don't hate Sasuke, so where you found the logic that labelled me as a Sasuke hater came from completely escapes me. If you must label me, label me a Kyuubi fan. That's the most acurate label you'll find.

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
*taps chin* when did I ever say YOU bitched about Sasuke accomplishing spectacular feats?
Well, you were quoting my post, so I figured you were at least taking me into the sweeping generalization. My apolagies.

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
(though I get the feeling I probably could find a post or two if I actually tried )
Probably. There was that time where I threw in too much realism when arguing and was bitching about how Sasuke's speed progress in the five days they were in the forest to learn Lee's techniques should be impossible (though the point of that debate was more when exactly Sasuke learned Lee's style). That was a few months ago, if I recall.

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
Of course you’re disappointed that naruto didn’t keep up with sasuke, you one of the lala land residents that actually think hes a genius. If I kept making up foolishness just because I wanted things to happen and actually believed it(even though the manga clearly says the opposite), I’d eventuaully be disapoitned too.
I'm also the guy that read Naruto mastering Kage Bunshin in a few hours, chakra control at the same speed as Sasuke, water walking in a few hours and Rasengan in a few weeks, how can I not be disapointed when Naruto returns from a 3 year training period virtually empty handed?

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
since you like to use your imagination so much i recommend the "create a character" thread.
I'm a happy resident of the Nanoha OC thread, so I'm already occupied in that department. Two OC threads would be a bit busy.
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Old 2008-07-17, 12:48   Link #64
james0246
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I hate doing messages like this, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
*taps chin* when did I ever say YOU bitched about Sasuke accomplishing spectacular feats? (though I get the feeling I probably could find a post or two if I actually tried ) Of course youíre disappointed that naruto didnít keep up with sasuke, you one of the lala land residents that actually think hes a genius. If I kept making up foolishness just because I wanted things to happen and actually believed it(even though the manga clearly says the opposite), Iíd eventuaully be disapoitned too. since you like to use your imagination so much i recommend the "create a character" thread.
Can you please calm down SpyderSidiouss. You are becoming nothing more than a "hater" that goes out of his or her way to make ridiculous comments concerning everyone. We know you like Sasuke (you would not be so vehement concerning anyone disliking him if you were not a Sasuke fan (and, btw, being a fan is not a bad thing, so pease stop accusing people of being a fan and then equating fandom to an insult, it is just getting silly)), but that does not mean that you have to attack everyone that has a different opinion. The fact that this forum, and forums in general, are made to spread and share ideas is what makes your posts so bothersome because all you do is tactlessly attack without ever trying to consider anyone elses opinion. You are acting like a bully, and it is becoming hard to read any of your posts when all you spew is constant hate. And I want to read your ideas, I enjoy sharing differing opinions and ideas, but you are making it very hard.
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Old 2008-07-17, 13:09   Link #65
tatami
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what is the talk about?
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Old 2008-07-17, 13:38   Link #66
SpyderSidiouss
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Well, you were quoting my post, so I figured you were at least taking me into the sweeping generalization. My apolagies.
Um, yeah, my “apologies” if I figured you didn’t like the guy because I’ve been reading nothing but complaints and negative comments about him from you. Interesting why your “favorite jinchuriki” is your favorite.


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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Probably.
LOL.


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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*taps chin* when did I ever bitch about Sasuke acomplishing something spectacular?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
There was that time where I threw in too much realism when arguing and was bitching about how Sasuke's speed progress in the five days they were in the forest to learn Lee's techniques should be impossible (though the point of that debate was more when exactly Sasuke learned Lee's style). That was a few months ago, if I recall.
Ah, I guess the conversation jogged you memory


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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I'm also the guy that read Naruto mastering Kage Bunshin in a few hours, chakra control at the same speed as Sasuke, water walking in a few hours and Rasengan in a few weeks, how can I not be disapointed when Naruto returns from a 3 year training period virtually empty handed?
lol, you sound like Al Bundy, repeating the same old accomplishments for like 20 years, “4 touchdowns in a single game, yada yada yada” LMAO. Funny how you convieniently forget to mention or factor in any of his failures. LOL listen come back to reality. The FACT IS that hes not a genius and the manga says this more than once.


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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
Can you please calm down SpyderSidiouss. You are becoming nothing more than a "hater" that goes out of his or her way to make ridiculous comments concerning everyone. We know you like Sasuke (you would not be so vehement concerning anyone disliking him if you were not a Sasuke fan (and, btw, being a fan is not a bad thing, so pease stop accusing people of being a fan and then equating fandom to an insult, it is just getting silly)), but that does not mean that you have to attack everyone that has a different opinion. The fact that this forum, and forums in general, are made to spread and share ideas is what makes your posts so bothersome because all you do is tactlessly attack without ever trying to consider anyone elses opinion. You are acting like a bully, and it is becoming hard to read any of your posts when all you spew is constant hate. And I want to read your ideas, I enjoy sharing differing opinions and ideas, but you are making it very hard.
You are the only person I will apologize to since I never seen you come off as a hating jerk whos mind is clouded by hate; you sound very down to earth unlike the rest of the lala land residents. Anyway, I think I’m entitled to criticize the criticizers, the same way their entitled to bitch and moan about people in the manga. And, lol, I’m surprised that you think IM the one spewing hate… I don’t even hate any of the characters, the worst things ive said were that naruto is an idiot, and that he was extremely annoying. meanwhile you got the REAL haters saying things like "I hate {x character}" or {x character should die}. and I don’t like how you say I’m attacking people who have a diff. opinion im just challenging their opinion.


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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
We know you like Sasuke
Yeah, wouldn’t it be stupid for me to *tap my chin* and say something like “where in my post did I say I like Sasuke?” lol
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Old 2008-07-17, 14:11   Link #67
Keroko
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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
Um, yeah, my “apologies” if I figured you didn’t like the guy because I’ve been reading nothing but complaints and negative comments about him from you.
I literary stated 'I don't hate Sasuke' several times, but you have a point. I'll give out some positive comments next time to even the balance.

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
Interesting why your “favorite jinchuriki” is your favorite.
Bijuu, not Jinchuuriki. I like what's inside, not what's holding it inside.

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
lol, you sound like Al Bundy, repeating the same old accomplishments for like 20 years, “4 touchdowns in a single game, yada yada yada” LMAO. Funny how you convieniently forget to mention or factor in any of his failures. LOL listen come back to reality. The FACT IS that hes not a genius and the manga says this more than once.
The manga also continously heaps praise on Naruto's rapid acomplishments, and how he cleverly figures out new ways to achieve what he needs.

Lee was also labeled a failure more then once, and yet in the Chuunin exams, he is called a genius. To me, that means that being 'a genius of hard work' (and there is no way you can say Naruto doesn't fall into this category) is equal to being a genius itself. Combine that with all the mental leaps Naruto takes in combination (such as figuring out an entirely new way noone thought of before to use Rasengan, and later on figuring out an entirely new way noone thought of before to use elemental manipulation) and I still don't have any reason not to believe Naruto is a genius. He is a genius different from Sasuke, yes, but a genius nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
and I don’t like how you say I’m attacking people who have a diff. opinion im just challenging their opinion.
You are attacking people. If you were only challenging opinions, you wouldn't aim your comments at the person themselves. Heck, you even made a personal attack right after you posted that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
Yeah, wouldn’t it be stupid for me to *tap my chin* and say something like “where in my post did I say I like Sasuke?” lol
That was a personal attack no matter how you look at it. It was made to insult and served no other purpose then to do so.
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Last edited by Keroko; 2008-07-17 at 14:25.
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Old 2008-07-17, 15:02   Link #68
Orga777
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Here is my honest opinion on the matter.

I like Naruto as the character he is and compared to Sasuke, he is more interesting in every single way. BUT, right now, the story IS wasted on Naruto. It is a sad fact.

Since Part 2 started here is what Naruto has done.
Angst about Sasuke.
Angst about Gaara.
Complain.
Complain.
Angst about Sasuke.
Complain.
Go on a Kyuubi rampage because of angst about Sasuke.
Complain.
More angst about Sasuke.
Train again.
Beat Kakuzu in a stupidly short fight.
Angst about Sasuke again.
Angst about Jiraiya's death.
Complain.
Complain.
And now train again.

Does anyone else see how stupid this is? He is the damn main character and he has done NOTHING but bitch and complain the entire time. It is becoming a joke now. It actually makes me wonder what the hell Kishimoto is DOING. Compare that to Sasuke who has wiped out two Akasuki members and Orochimaru and is now going after the Eight Tails. Sasuke has accomplished infinitely more in his short time back then Naruto has all of Part 2. Naruto has had NO real fight in Part 2 when he had about eight in Part 1. So yes. It is a shame, but Naruto has done nothing at all so far and the story is wasted on him.
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Old 2008-07-17, 20:56   Link #69
SpyderSidiouss
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I literary stated 'I don't hate Sasuke' several times, but you have a point. I'll give out some positive comments next time to even the balance.
LOL! Don’t you see how ridiculous that sounds? That’s like saying: well, there’s no discrimination against women or other minorities in the job market because of programs like “affirmative action”; but the fact that these types of programs have to be there in the first place means that there is! The fact that you have make sure to give out positive comments now because of all your negative ones only proves the obvious. Most of the time people will automatically say what they feel first, and all I’ve seen you doing is bitching about certain people & things so put 2 and 2 together…. lol, you're only going to try and post positive comments because I brought it to your attention... You can say “I don’t hate [whoever]”, but it means little when all you do is bash [whoever]. I’d sound pretty dumb right now if I said “I have no problems with naruto” after all the complaining I’ve done about him.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Bijuu, not Jinchuuriki. I like what's inside, not what's holding it inside.
Oh Really now… lmao, next time, at least try to cover your tracks.


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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Lee was also labeled a failure more then once, and yet in the Chuunin exams, he is called a genius. To me, that means that being 'a genius of hard work' (and there is no way you can say Naruto doesn't fall into this category) is equal to being a genius itself. Combine that with all the mental leaps Naruto takes in combination (such as figuring out an entirely new way noone thought of before to use Rasengan, and later on figuring out an entirely new way noone thought of before to use elemental manipulation) and I still don't have any reason not to believe Naruto is a genius. He is a genius different from Sasuke, yes, but a genius nonetheless.
Dude… The manga is about perservence vs. talent; and we know who is who because the manga stated so, and not only that but their trainers are JUST LIKE THEM! Ones mean and beats up her friends (tsunade, sakura), ones a genius that has evil tendicies (oro, sasuke), and ones silly with no special talent but works very hard (jiraiya, naruto). Plus the manga stated a FEW times that naruto wasn’t a genius, in fact he had no natural talent, omg, how easier do you want the manga to spell it out for you!? Regular people can reach the level of a genius with lots of hard work, and maybe even pass them if they work hard enough that’s what the manga is trying to say. But even if you reach the level of a genius it doesn’t make you a genius yourself, you just reached their same level of how good they are. If this cant get through your head, NOTHING WILL, even if the manga had everyone in the damn panels and naruto himself saying “Naruto IS NOT A GENIUS” for the entire chapter.



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That was a personal attack no matter how you look at it. It was made to insult and served no other purpose then to do so.
Um actually that was an attack the way YOU looked at it; but keeping in mind that you’ve been looking at a bunch of stuff in the manga totally wrong, I’m not surprised by you looking at this wrong either, you seem to like to make up whatever the hell you feel like. (this is not an attack either, its an observation ) When quoted your “taps chin” comment, I was imitating you to show you how ridiculous what you said seemed. So, I attacked your sarcasm => *taps chin*, not you. It sounds stupid to talk so much shit about someone or something then say “well I never actually SAID I didn’t like them or hated them…” that just sounds stupid. That’s not an attack on you, its an attack on what you said; you are not your words (fortunately for you ).
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Old 2008-07-19, 06:55   Link #70
Keroko
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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
LOL! Don’t you see how ridiculous that sounds? That’s like saying: well, there’s no discrimination against women or other minorities in the job market because of programs like “affirmative action”; but the fact that these types of programs have to be there in the first place means that there is! The fact that you have make sure to give out positive comments now because of all your negative ones only proves the obvious. Most of the time people will automatically say what they feel first, and all I’ve seen you doing is bitching about certain people & things so put 2 and 2 together…. lol, you're only going to try and post positive comments because I brought it to your attention... You can say “I don’t hate [whoever]”, but it means little when all you do is bash [whoever]. I’d sound pretty dumb right now if I said “I have no problems with naruto” after all the complaining I’ve done about him.
*scratches head* So wait, on one hand you want me to stop bitching because it clouds my view, and on the other hand you don't? All I'm saying is that I'll post on the things I do like about him, rather then only respond to the things I don't, and you still grind in on me. What is it you want, exactly?

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Oh Really now… lmao, next time, at least try to cover your tracks.
Eh? *reads back*

Oooh, now I understand what you meant. I thought you were talking about me liking Kyuubi.

Anyway, I liked the smartass comment of the Hachibi Jinchuuriki, not the fact that it was aimed at Sasuke. Heck, he could have aimed it it Suigetsu and it wouldn't change a thing for me.

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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
Dude… The manga is about perservence vs. talent; and we know who is who because the manga stated so, and not only that but their trainers are JUST LIKE THEM! Ones mean and beats up her friends (tsunade, sakura), ones a genius that has evil tendicies (oro, sasuke), and ones silly with no special talent but works very hard (jiraiya, naruto). Plus the manga stated a FEW times that naruto wasn’t a genius, in fact he had no natural talent, omg, how easier do you want the manga to spell it out for you!? Regular people can reach the level of a genius with lots of hard work, and maybe even pass them if they work hard enough that’s what the manga is trying to say. But even if you reach the level of a genius it doesn’t make you a genius yourself, you just reached their same level of how good they are. If this cant get through your head, NOTHING WILL, even if the manga had everyone in the damn panels and naruto himself saying “Naruto IS NOT A GENIUS” for the entire chapter.
Okay, okay, calm down. I always viewed Naruto on the same scale as Lee, and since Lee has been called a genius, despite being talentless. So in my mind, Naruto became a genius himself.
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Old 2008-07-19, 11:10   Link #71
SpyderSidiouss
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Okay, okay, calm down. I always viewed Naruto on the same scale as Lee, and since Lee has been called a genius, despite being talentless. So in my mind, Naruto became a genius himself.
you know something, post up a chapter and page number because i dont remember anyone really saying that exactly. This shit better say straight up "Lee is a genius" cause if it doesn't something is seriously wrong with you.

Last edited by SpyderSidiouss; 2008-07-19 at 11:24.
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Old 2008-07-19, 11:46   Link #72
Keroko
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Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss View Post
you know something, post up a chapter and page number because i dont remember anyone really saying that. This shit better say straight up "LEE is a genius" cause if it doesn't something is seriously wrong with you.
Certainly. Chapter 85, page 7, I can't post the entire page, as Naruto is licensed, but here is the frame in which Kakashi says it:

Spoiler for Manga frame:

Can't get any more straight up then that. "That kid... he's a genius." Kakashi's words.
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Old 2008-07-19, 13:21   Link #73
SUKISUKILOL
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Yeah i dont like the character Naruto that much.
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Old 2008-07-20, 23:27   Link #74
jho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Here is my honest opinion on the matter.

I like Naruto as the character he is and compared to Sasuke, he is more interesting in every single way. BUT, right now, the story IS wasted on Naruto. It is a sad fact.

Since Part 2 started here is what Naruto has done.
Angst about Sasuke.
Angst about Gaara.
Complain.
Complain.
Angst about Sasuke.
Complain.
Go on a Kyuubi rampage because of angst about Sasuke.
Complain.
More angst about Sasuke.
Train again.
Beat Kakuzu in a stupidly short fight.
Angst about Sasuke again.
Angst about Jiraiya's death.
Complain.
Complain.
And now train again.

Does anyone else see how stupid this is? He is the damn main character and he has done NOTHING but bitch and complain the entire time. It is becoming a joke now. It actually makes me wonder what the hell Kishimoto is DOING. Compare that to Sasuke who has wiped out two Akasuki members and Orochimaru and is now going after the Eight Tails. Sasuke has accomplished infinitely more in his short time back then Naruto has all of Part 2. Naruto has had NO real fight in Part 2 when he had about eight in Part 1. So yes. It is a shame, but Naruto has done nothing at all so far and the story is wasted on him.
Totally agreed, I've been pulling my hair for Naruto to have any real character development for over a year
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Old 2008-07-21, 10:26   Link #75
Mirtual
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Right now the Manga seems to be based on Sasuke anyway.
And no.
That was no gain at all.


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Old 2008-07-21, 23:35   Link #76
ShadowAssasin
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Very nice post.

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Originally Posted by Adediran242 View Post
I think the issue alot of us have is the "underdog" theme that constanntly runs in the manga and anime. (I struggle with it myself) Naruto is an absolute failure, with zero talent and a monster ravaging his soul. He is NOT supposed to be learning several new jutsu, as much as we'd love him to, because the guy is a moron.
Yes, indeed. It does seem as if people want naruto to be similar to Sasuke in regards of his crafty techniques, chic fighting style, overall “coolness”, etc. However it seems that they’re forgetting that naruto isn’t supposed to be any of those things at all; and never was to begin with. Sasuke and naruto’s comparison is actually quite similar to the comparison between Inyuasha and Sesshomaru: one was reliant on mostly brute strength and heart, the other was more refined, chic, elegant, etc. The story is about heart overcoming talent; and I really fail to see how people are still continuing to miss this at this point in the manga, when the author has gone far out of his way to make this theme apparent in several of the earlier arcs.

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Originally Posted by Adediran242 View Post
Coupled with the enemies Naruto has fought and beaten, I doubt there is anyone in the series that can boast to the claims that he has achieved. Naruto is not wasted on Naruto because the main character is fulfilling his purpose and giving the message that Kishi wants portrayed, you don't have to be the best to be succesful, you can be a failure and still do well.
Exactly; however, unfortunately people rather focus on comparing naruto to the one person amongst his peers that has a large lead over him. How ironic that the anti-Sasuke crowd now mentions Sasuke more than the alleged “fan boys” do; the very thing that many Sasuke fans were often ridiculed for.
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Old 2008-07-21, 23:51   Link #77
BlackShinobi07
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Is Naruto wasted on Mr. Uzumaki? No. But Sasuke could take the reigns anytime and drive the series hemself easily. Most of the mythology and history of the Narutoverse ties into Sasuke lineage anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Here is my honest opinion on the matter.

I like Naruto as the character he is and compared to Sasuke, he is more interesting in every single way. BUT, right now, the story IS wasted on Naruto. It is a sad fact.

Since Part 2 started here is what Naruto has done.
Angst about Sasuke.
Angst about Gaara.
Complain.
Complain.
Angst about Sasuke.
Complain.
Go on a Kyuubi rampage because of angst about Sasuke.
Complain.
More angst about Sasuke.
Train again.
Beat Kakuzu in a stupidly short fight.
Angst about Sasuke again.
Angst about Jiraiya's death.
Complain.
Complain.
And now train again.

Does anyone else see how stupid this is? He is the damn main character and he has done NOTHING but bitch and complain the entire time. It is becoming a joke now. It actually makes me wonder what the hell Kishimoto is DOING. Compare that to Sasuke who has wiped out two Akasuki members and Orochimaru and is now going after the Eight Tails. Sasuke has accomplished infinitely more in his short time back then Naruto has all of Part 2. Naruto has had NO real fight in Part 2 when he had about eight in Part 1. So yes. It is a shame, but Naruto has done nothing at all so far and the story is wasted on him.
I concur 110%, Orga777. You're undeniably correct.
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Old 2008-07-23, 00:48   Link #78
SeanQ
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Who's Naruto?
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Volcano solid or easy valve

Last edited by SeanQ; 2011-04-24 at 13:27.
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Old 2008-07-23, 01:19   Link #79
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanQ View Post
Who's Naruto?


Does that answer your question?
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Old 2008-07-23, 10:59   Link #80
AceD
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Age: 27
naruto will be killed off, renaming the show sasuke shippuden
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