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Old 2008-07-19, 19:48   Link #181
Langus
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In the Turn Back the Pendulum they other captains commented that the incompetence of the previous Kenpachi was what made it possible for the 10th Kenpachi to take over. If Isshin shirked his captain duties to pursue a relationship with Masaki in the human world that would certainly fit the profile. It would also allow the theory to fit with the 10th Kenpachi coming in only to be killed by the 11th - Zaraki.
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Old 2008-07-19, 20:02   Link #182
MAQI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
In the Turn Back the Pendulum they other captains commented that the incompetence of the previous Kenpachi was what made it possible for the 10th Kenpachi to take over. If Isshin shirked his captain duties to pursue a relationship with Masaki in the human world that would certainly fit the profile. It would also allow the theory to fit with the 10th Kenpachi coming in only to be killed by the 11th - Zaraki.
It would also explain Isshin's personality and always looking for a fight with Ichigo... If he was The 9th Kenpachi it would fit perfectly!
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Old 2008-07-19, 21:05   Link #183
HayashiTakara
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Turn Back the Pendulum was centuries ago... I highly doubt Masaki was alive then.
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Old 2008-07-19, 21:08   Link #184
Mr. DJ
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thought it was only 100 years >.>
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Old 2008-07-19, 21:09   Link #185
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A century (centuries), either way still way too far back for Masaki to be alive.
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Old 2008-07-19, 21:10   Link #186
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I'd have to disagree with the theroy that Isshn was the 10th or 9tth Kenpachi. First, you still have the problem that Shinji could not ID him. Second, the only mention of incompetence of the last Kenpachi was in a scan by a group that is known to take a lot of liberties with the translation script. In other translations it was "If anyone's to blame it's the former Kenpachi for losing to this guy." Third Isshin Knows the offical SS story on the Vizards but seemingly not the truth. So it sounds as though he broke ties with SS after Urahara and the vizards left.
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Old 2008-07-19, 21:15   Link #187
Langus
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HT: You have a point. Doesn't discredit the theory entirely though because there are still many open variables. One being that we don't know WHEN exactly Isshin came to the human world to reside. He could have gone there for other reasons and lived on his own for a hundred years before meeting Masaki. Also, we still don't know the story behind Masaki. It's entirely possible that she was at some point a shinigami as well. All of this has yet to be confirmed or denied in the manga/anime.

Kagato: We don't know how long Shinji was in rank in SS. It's not unreasonable to think that he entered the guard just after Isshin left for the human world. Second, I've read multiple scans of that chapter, all with the same basic translation. Where abouts are you getting your scan from? And at the end of the day, as far as the Kenpachi role is concerned losing and incompetence are one and the same.
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Old 2008-07-19, 21:25   Link #188
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I have a crazy out of this world theory... Isshin is a homemade Shinigami, just like Ichigo, that Urahara created.
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Old 2008-07-19, 21:35   Link #189
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I use M-R and N-J scans they seem to be the all around best ones out there where as m7 and bink are horrid translations. Shinji had been a captian for years at that point as Rose was the juinor most captain before Urahara haveing only been one for about 2 years and the way Love and Shinji were talking the they seemed to have known the old Kenpachi at least to the point they were compairing the new one to him. and as I edited in to my last post Isshin Knows the offical SS story on the Vizards but seemingly not the truth. So it sounds as though he broke ties with SS after Urahara and the vizards left.
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Old 2008-07-19, 21:43   Link #190
Langus
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If that were true than Byakuya, Rukia, Renji, or someone else from the current crew would've heard of him and they made no recognition of the name Kurosaki. Kind of debunks that theory too.
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Old 2008-07-19, 22:42   Link #191
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There is still a 50 year gap between Urahara leaveing and Rukia and Renji joining up and names can easly be changed. So far everyone that has gotten close enuff to have been able to see Isshin has been with SS less then 100 years. Barring possably Yumichika and Ikkaku as they joined shortly after the current Kenpachi did. now the big question is he the 10th, 11th, or even later Kenpachi. As I stated in my first post on the thread Isshin has a history going back deacdes with the Arrancar he and Urahara seem to also be searching for the Vizzards and to determen their goals. All of this seems to possably point to Isshin haveing been sent to find the escaped vizards by SS and given that he seems to have been sent alone and none of the 13 squads seem to know about him there is a strong likelyhood that he is a member of squad 0, the group that handles things like menos invadeing earth and other high level threats.
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Old 2008-07-19, 22:54   Link #192
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the only thing i'm sure is... (well 95% sure)
Isshin is not from Soul Society.
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Old 2008-07-20, 06:06   Link #193
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what. the. hell. he's a shinigami, or was, a captain in fact. how can he not be from Soul Society?
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Old 2008-07-20, 06:30   Link #194
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Ichigo is a shinigami, and he's not from S.S.

I still have a feeling that Isshin is home made just like Ichigo.
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Old 2008-07-20, 09:51   Link #195
ruote
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Originally Posted by Konpachi View Post
what. the. hell. he's a shinigami, or was, a captain in fact. how can he not be from Soul Society?
he only said. "he was a captain level shinigami"
he never really said, he was a former captain
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Old 2008-07-20, 16:24   Link #196
Langus
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Then why bother having a captain jacket?
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Old 2008-07-20, 16:29   Link #197
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if you ask me it's not really a typical Taicho haori he's wearing -> he's most likely from the Royal Guard, that could explain why nobody recognized his reiatsu-pattern/his last name and why we have never seen this cape-over-your-shoulder-style before

Spoiler for Manga:
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Old 2008-07-21, 00:49   Link #198
Langus
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*shrug* Guess we'll see.
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Old 2008-07-21, 09:04   Link #199
ruote
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i have the same theory like HT
Isshin is just like Ichigo

look at this page

Spoiler for ch.182:

As "the tradition goes" somehow it means, it happened before.

then look at Ishida's reaction
Spoiler for ch.182:

It seems, he had seen it before.

Spoiler for .:
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Old 2008-08-21, 02:02   Link #200
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Sorry, not trying to revive old-wounds, but...

I've actually been trying to figure some things out, instead of just looking at Ichigo, Isshin, or Masaki, I've been trying to contemplate how outside-forces could affect what, or who Isshin Kurosaki really is, was, or will be.

However, I always come to the same damn conclusion; That Kaien Shiba is involved. I don't mean the two being the same, but Kaien being a central-figure in the plot around Isshin. Truly, Kubo was a genious at outlining every-character, making it impossible for us to guess what an answer to their past is, so easily.

I've ran across several possibilities, and path's extending from the roots of those possibilities, and some include the following:


- Ichigo really is the reincarnation of Kaien, but without the memories, obviously.

Path 1: As stated, no memories; However, it's never been explicitly stated that Shinigami don't retain their spiritual in the life. Maybe Ichigo had Kaien's power embedded deep within him? It's possible that being Isshin's son has nothing to do with how fast he developed; If he is the reincarnation of Kaien himself, then he would retain most of the traits, save for a few. It explains how fast he progressed -- Kaien was a "true shinigami prodegy for progressing through a six-year curriculum in only one-year". If you give it thought, it has ground, but... It leads to more path's, but I don't want to wear it down.

Path 2: Isshin was indeed the King of Soul-Society, and had access to a vastly more-powerful knowledge of spells and skills not able to that of any ordinary resident, shinigami, or captain in the Gotei 13. Hell, I'd go as far as throwing the Chamber of 46, or whatever their called, into that category.

He was obviously aware that Kaien was going to be reborn in the human-world, and... Well, this is a sub-path scenario:

1 - He used a long-forgotten spell that sacrificed most of a shinigami's powers to attain a human-form for a very-temporary time. IE: Twenty-years. When he did this, he saved the rest, which was around Ichigo's starting spirit-pressure, and gave it to his son when he was born, but stored it within him, making it slowly-developing, so he wouldn't be targeted by Hollow's at an infancy age. However, it possibly developed too-fast because of Kaien's natural-abilities from the previous-life he lived in Soul-Society.

2 - Ichigo, Yazzu, Karrin, are all reincarnations of shinigami that Isshin knew in Soul-Society, and realized they could be pivotal... OR, they just meant a lot to him (And realized Kaien's importance if he is indeed reincarnated as Ichigo.), and he wanted to be with them, rather than stay in Soul-Society. Meaning he wondered the human-world, and managed to stop their souls from being reborn, and could choose when they would be born; After finding Masaki. *I find this one to be unlikely, though.*

Path 2: Isshin is indeed the King, but... He was tired of the way the shinigami were conducting themselves and no longer felt comfortable near them, and longed for a life in another world; Thus, he somehow went to the human-world. I have no clue what to think after this, though.

*Will edit later, out of time ATM*
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