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Old 2008-07-19, 08:56   Link #501
MooMooFarm
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To be completely honest, besides like the first episode or something (or 3, whatever) there's rarely been a chance to even show specific features or what not of the Macross Mecha. While the first time I saw Frontier I was overwhelmed by the sheer speed of the dogfights and fireworks, it quickly got old as I can see the similarity in the model shooting stance and what not, and specially when something like Gundam 00 or Code Geass has shown that it pays to not recycle, that really hurts Frontier. At this point, I'm more distinguished with Sutherland Knightmare Frames than the VF-25 simply due to no FOCUS on it's abilities. Sure, there are scenes with awesome shoot outs, but that means NOTHING. There is no blatant emphasize on the mechs abilities.

First up is the terminology. Almost nowhere in the series can you get the information you get in this thread. I don't care how cool the box specs are, if you can't immerse the viewership with it during the damn TV show, it ain't worth jack. Spec talk scenes are also INCREDIBLY boring and forgotten quick if it doesn't make a relevance within that episode. The only thing I can recall from Frontier atm is that stupid Warphole thingy the LIA provided for their trip to sing for the giants. And I don't even know the damn name of that thing anymore.

Second is the methods of pretty much plugging your terminology into the viewers. While Gundam shows more or less don't need to since they have ridiculously unique suits for the main cast and don't give two craps about the grunts, Code Geass does an EXCELLENT job. Lelouch commanding the resistance using Sutherlands gave us words like Slash Harken which we'd never have an equivalent to for a Zaku (UNLESS YOU COUNT THE HEAT AXE LOL) let alone Macross.

Third is how overwhelming VF-25 and more importantly giant Macross is. VF-25 if you sheerly look at it from a movie perspective, is balls on the walls more cooler than any gundam from 00 or Knightmare from Code geass in a battle from the choreography. But that's talking about a 90 minute episode, NOTHING MORE. When it comes to a TV show, people like me start WONDERING wtf is going on with that super awesome looking chain gun, the missiles, etc etc. And the inconsistency of how long it takes or how much shots/missiles you need to kill Vajra REALLY hurts. It's like, WTF WHY ARE YOU HAVING TROUBLE WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THE SUIT AND NOW YOU CAN TWO SHOT THEM WITH BULLETS? The giant Macross just KILLS it because there's virtually ZERO purpose to being humanoid. You might as well equip a GIGANTIC cannon and armaments of missiles on the regular ship and THERE YOU GO. It has shown no NEED to move around fluidly nor has it shown it CAN.

So to sum it up, the thing I really hate about macross tech are:

1. Terms

2. Lack of nerd content during episodes

3. Too much nerd fanservice without proper handling

Like, one thing I really like about Macross is they mix music and fighting well. Not like theme/bgm music, but songs. If only you actually had the fight scenes with actually tech/nerd talk instead of OORRYAAAAA NOOO DONT DIE CAST NUMBER 43, or GO TO HELL VAJRA and pretty much BORING crap that can come from ANY genre, it'd feel more real.

But from what I can get from these forums, Macross ain't about that, so leave it to gundam I guess?
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Old 2008-07-19, 09:06   Link #502
squaresphere
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^ cough you hit it right on the money, it's not what macross is about.

As taken from a "new battlestar galatica" interview. "A lot of shows forget that SCI-FI is a setting not a story"

Don't forget frontier is incorporating all the technology from the other macross series. You'd probably like Plus as it's about a prototype fighter competition. There a much larger tech focus (but not the main focus by any stretch) and Zero where the 1st VF prototypes are first deployed (though the story will probably bore you to tears).

--edit in--

Also Macross has NEVER been about realism (M7 proved that), if anything it's about the strength of human emotion

Last edited by squaresphere; 2008-07-19 at 10:16.
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Old 2008-07-19, 09:42   Link #503
March
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Actually, most of the relevant tech talk is in the show but there is no made-to-serve silver platter of Star Trek-style technobabble. I couldn't agree more with squaresphere; the Battlestar Galactica (re-imagined) analogy is dead on and technobabble is definitely NOT what Macross has ever been about, and thank gawd for that

SDF Macross told a war drama with emphasis on character/theme where all the mecha were treated as mass produced war vehicles, not ridiculous one-of-a-kind super robots. This format is specifically what makes Macross distinct from other genre shows like Gundam or Patlabor. If Macross was just another mindless clone anime, such as all the transforming robot shows that tried to leech off the original, Macross wouldn't have survived as a franchise this long nor produced some of the best mecha anime ever.

Personally, I've always loved the fact that Macross generally hasn't indulged in grandstanding tech talk, invincible powers or special shout-out attacks. I much prefer the use of skill like saurobird lifts, cobra maneuvers and transformation tactics rather than who pilots the best ultra-multi-phase-tachyon-zero-point-energy-(insert latest fringe science term to be abused here)-uber-mech or other such tech contrivance.
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Old 2008-07-19, 10:32   Link #504
Tak
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MooMooFarm, I just want to ask, do you ever see people question the plausibility of some of the devices we wield in real life as extensively as say, Star Trek? Hopefully in your circumstances the answer is no. After all, most of us taken some of the best technologies mankind could offer more or less for granted. Should we retain this attitude or not is debatable, but thats another story.

Likewise, in the Macross world, people have already taken most of the in-universe technological content more or less for granted. One thing I hate about Star Trek, and never gotten myself to watching it was due to the technobabble in the series. As if all of the Federation's existent technologies were like new discoveries. Nobody talks like them given the same situation in Macross (thank goddess for that) or even real life, and you will never see this kind of babbling even in the military.

With that said, Macross is very down to earth in regards to its weapons. There aren't BS or twists in between, with maybe the exception to the all-time famed Itano Circus. Otherwise, weapons fire from point A to point B, no gimmicks, just good ol' destructive fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by March View Post
Personally, I've always loved the fact that Macross generally hasn't indulged in grandstanding tech talk, invincible powers or special shout-out attacks. I much prefer the use of skill like saurobird lifts, cobra maneuvers and transformation tactics rather than who pilots the best ultra-multi-phase-tachyon-zero-point-energy-(insert latest fringe science term to be abused here)-uber-mech or other such tech contrivance.
You know, I cannot help but note the irony that you are also running a technical-specifications website

*hides*

- Tak
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Old 2008-07-19, 10:36   Link #505
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
Also Macross has NEVER been about realism (M7 proved that), if anything it's about the strength of human emotion
He's not asking for realism. He's asking for a method to the maddness. Like, in the original Macross they would talk about how they would use something and how it's use would fit into their plans, while relevant dialogue to their current situation was used on a frequent basis. Stuff like how they were trapped, what their operational goals were etc.

Not in Frontier though. "Dialogue" almost exclusively consists of ass-smelling, "Transformation!", and screaming.

Someone compared Frontier to Top Gun, and I think that's an apt comparison. Now, imagine if Top Gun ran for five hours straight. Do really you think that would have made for a good movie?
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Old 2008-07-19, 11:53   Link #506
Wild Goose
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I'd like to point out, March, that mecha in Patlabor were rather down to earth; the Ingram's 37mm revolver used depowered shells that were based off existing 47mm ammo, and most of the labors we saw were industrial use. The one and only labor with an energy weapon was scrapped as being to cost-ineffective to use as well

...though I admit the Griffon has no excuses.

Though the Helldiver was fuckin' cool. And awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Someone compared Frontier to Top Gun, and I think that's an apt comparison. Now, imagine if Top Gun ran for five hours straight. Do really you think that would have made for a good movie?
It would be a dream come true for Kawamori. He's a big Top Gun fan.
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Old 2008-07-19, 11:59   Link #507
March
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You know, I cannot help but note the irony that you are also running a technical-specifications website

*hides*

- Tak
Like the irony of disliking Macross because it's not Gundam? No need to hide; I'm right there with ya.
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Old 2008-07-20, 01:28   Link #508
ReddyRedWolf
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Mecha rant ON



It's been bugging me since Ep 6. Has anybody identified the model of this VF?
Please don't tell me it'll be like the VF-4. You'll see the plane mode but not the battroid mode or gerwalk mode on screen.


YF-24 to VF-25
YF-24


VF-25


Is it possible that the VF-27 is also derived from the YF-24?


Macross Galaxy


Still can't make head or tails where the NMC is. I'm starting to think this is the biggest Macross there is. If the people behind Galaxy are from the Global they may also have adopted the whole SDF Macross concept on it.
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Old 2008-07-20, 02:29   Link #509
MarineCorps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Mecha rant ON



It's been bugging me since Ep 6. Has anybody identified the model of this VF?
Please don't tell me it'll be like the VF-4. You'll see the plane mode but not the battroid mode or gerwalk mode on screen.
I personally don't think it's a VF. I looked at every VF pic I could find and none matched it. Most VFs have Variable-sweep wings this plane didn't look to have that. It's probaly nothing more then a courier plane of sorts I was actually just wondering about this earlier.


Quote:
Macross Galaxy


Still can't make head or tails where the NMC is. I'm starting to think this is the biggest Macross there is. If the people behind Galaxy are from the Global they may also have adopted the whole SDF Macross concept on it.
I was more wondering why this ship is so much different from Macross F. It's escort are different also. The fleets are very close to together so I would assume they were launched around the same time......

Wait this is interesting






The front part of galaxy snaps down,,
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Old 2008-07-20, 06:54   Link #510
ReddyRedWolf
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Snaps down? I don't get it.




Mahq.net
VF-25F
VF-25S
VF-27





Looking at it closely it seems the VF-25 and VF-27 are sister designs. Using the same internal parts.

Which reminds me how the VF-14 Nightmare design was converted into the Fz-109A Elgerzorene by the Protodevlin.

Making the VF-27 sort of a true enemy Valkyrie for the VF-25.

Since Grace had a LAI dimension eater I'm presuming that LAI has divisions on both Frontier and Galaxy.

Both divisions took the YF-24's design aspects and made them into their own fighter designs.

LAI Frontier made the VF-25 as a simple all around operations fighter with several variants.
With compatible super packs and armor packs.

LAI Galaxy on the otherhand made the VF-27 a special stealth operations fighter along the lines of the VF-22.

Galaxy Anonymous initially rated the VF-25 as merely a grunt VF using regular Ex-gear interface while the VF-27 they have is aces caliber using direct brain control with implants and cybernetics.

They forgot that it isn't the machine that makes the difference but the pilot. SMS has elite level pilots.
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Old 2008-07-20, 07:14   Link #511
squaresphere
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^ ok from that I could agree that the 25 and 27 could have been derived from the same YF-24 platform.

Me thinks maybe LAI was once part of Galaxy but got spun off as divergent technology design initiative.
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Old 2008-07-20, 08:13   Link #512
CaptGloval
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I think the top part of Galaxy is indeed the Macross-class ship. It looks similar to the standard form of the New Macross Class.

The fleet's escorts are Meltran ships.
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Old 2008-07-20, 20:48   Link #513
ReddyRedWolf
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Some observations from MW.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Vegeta
I must say that Galaxy's design slightly reminds me of preproduction SDF-1's sketches. This is probably intentional, since after all even the Macross Quarter was a mixture of Macross 7 and SDF-1 (having unjustified shoulder towers in Storm Attacker mode).

The SDF-1 was always designed as a transformable ship even in preproduction designs, so maybe even the Galaxy can transform.



Here's a pic to explain my points. To the sides of the bridge of the Megaroad there are box-like things that becomes arms. Galaxy has similar things attached to the sides. Galaxy also appears to have something which looks like a leg below, pointing forward, twisted so that the point of the foot points downward. There seems to be another leg pointing backward, if those yellow flattened spheres are indeed some kind of joint. Galaxy doesn't have the splitting Macross Cannon designs, which belongs to first generation Macross only, but there seems to be a joint below so that perhaps it folds and come out on the back.

We'll wait and see.

FV
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Old 2008-07-20, 21:24   Link #514
squaresphere
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I dunno I must be missing it, cause I'm not seeing what everyone else is with Galaxy. The only thing i'm wondering is if the bottom segment was designed to be separate or if that section got blow off at some point and they "fixed" it as best they could.
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Old 2008-07-20, 22:28   Link #515
MarineCorps
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I notice that the third pic of galaxy the forward section seems to be extended further then the rest of the photos. Start of a possible transformation?
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Old 2008-07-21, 04:38   Link #516
.Mero
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
Wait how do we know that he VF-27 was based on the YF-24. It doesn't any mention of this in the GG sub.
I only watched the kei sub because i was impatient.
Havent seen the GG yet so i went of based on the Kei one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Mecha rant ON



It's been bugging me since Ep 6. Has anybody identified the model of this VF?
Please don't tell me it'll be like the VF-4. You'll see the plane mode but not the battroid mode or gerwalk mode on screen.
What ep is that from? and what timeframe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineCorps View Post
I personally don't think it's a VF. I looked at every VF pic I could find and none matched it. Most VFs have Variable-sweep wings this plane didn't look to have that. It's probaly nothing more then a courier plane of sorts I was actually just wondering about this earlier.
the YF-22 didnt have sweep wings, but rather kind of like shapeshifting wings, these look like the same on the YF22 -> referring to the YF/VF24 schematics
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Old 2008-07-21, 05:41   Link #517
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
What ep is that from? and what timeframe?
Late in Episode 5.

Well I assumed that this fighter is the mainstay fighter of Galaxy.

But given the conspiracy we may have to re-evaluate that. For all we know the VF-27 is now their main fighter.
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Old 2008-07-21, 09:18   Link #518
squaresphere
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Honestly that fighter looks like a modified YF-24. Could be Galaxy's version of a cut rate fighter for pilots with no cybernetics.
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Old 2008-07-22, 13:14   Link #519
squaresphere
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
Just a side note, space performance aside the VF-25 had some wicked crazy atmospheric capabilities. In his duel with the VF-27 on the planet, Alto really pushed the 25 through some really crazy stunts way beyond anything we've seen the 19 or 22 ever do.
OK I was completely wrong. Finally got a chance to the the movie version of M+ and holy crap in the end fight with the Ghost Guld and the 21 pull massively crazy stunts.


I'm even more impressed with inertial dampening tech used in Frontier even more
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Old 2008-07-22, 14:38   Link #520
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Yeah, but that one doesn't count so much since both the Ghost and the YF-21 were pushing so hard at that point it doesn't even really count as "atmospheric performance" anymore
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