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View Poll Results: Lucky Star - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 200 81.30%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 11.38%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 5.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 1.22%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.41%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.41%
Voters: 246. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-23, 15:11   Link #261
Rembr
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
What... exactly has he done to earn the title "creepy"???
Didn't he go to a high school sports festival to take pictures of high school girls?
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Old 2008-07-23, 15:16   Link #262
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Well... the scene actually comes from the source material. The 4-koma Lucky*Star devoted part of a chapter presenting essentially the same material. And every instance of referring to Kona's mom is from the 4-koma series. Even most of the "dad-Kona" scenes in the series come from the 4-koma (though specific product line mentions were usually added item).

So.... if there's a weakness in the presentation, it was there in the original material. I suspect KyoAni figured this late in the series was a good place for the sequence of mom-haunting because people were attached enough to Kona-dad and Konata and they'd seen dad's flashback of his life with his wife.

Myself, I was most fond of dad fondly recalling his time dating and being married to her - more than the later ghostly sequence itself.
If there was a problem with that scene, it was the sudden, jarring scene transition that followed it, although I do realize that Lucky Star is arguably defined by sudden, jarring scene transitions (they really just loved throwing us in mid-conversation, hence "it reeeeaaaaallly stinks".) Lucky Star has always had a "random vignettes hastily sewn together" feel about it, and while I don't completely mind random vignettes, the "hastily sewn together" part really got to me, particular in sequences like this where there's a huge mismatch between the sentimentalism of the Kanata scene, and the flippancy of whatever immediately followed it. Arguably it would have been better if this scene was put right at the very end of the episode. It was the most memorable scene in the episode (arguably the series), why not give it the final word in the episode?

I disagree with Kaioshin Sama's contention that the intent was to make us feel for Kanata in particular. The scene, I thought, intended to add another dimension to the Izumi family. We've seen how they live, all throughout the series; Kanata was, in a way, an embodiment of their (particularly Soujirou's) past. I didn't think there was too much more they could do. If they were to really dwell on establishing the nature of the relationship between wife and husband, mother and daughter, and do so constantly, throughout the series, the veiled attempt to ram sentimentalism down our throats would have become pretty transparent, particularly in a series like this, which is mostly facetious. No, I think one scene like this works well, but too many more becomes just that, "too many". What more could they do? Not much, really. Less is more. I just wish the series realized this in a few more instances than just this one.
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Old 2008-07-23, 15:20   Link #263
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I've always kind of interpreted Soujirou's behavior as "misses his wife" (the love of tiny petite women) -- as something he's grown into. But its also quite possible he was entranced with her because of lolicon-ish thoughts.

His otaku'ness (anime, games, and an unusual stay-at-home job) already doom him as being considered strange. I rather like the way the manga and the anime leave it somewhat ambiguous so that some might see him creepy and others see more complexity.

On a separate note, I concur with Sorrow's thoughts on the jarring nature of the editing. Even allowing for 4-koma adaptation challenges, it sometimes seemed they weren't taking the production very seriously (which amplifies Kaoishin's observations that Kyoani mostly saw L*S's anime as a platform for other things than L*S itself.). A few more viewings of how AzuDa handled the adaptation issues might have been useful for them
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Old 2008-07-23, 15:24   Link #264
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Didn't he go to a high school sports festival to take pictures of high school girls?
That he did. He was taking pictures of the girls doing sports and talking about "His Daughter" participating even though Konata was at home watching him on the Television. Haha.

Even in the opening he is standing at a street corner spying on those two girls passing by. That was a bigger hint more than anything for me. It is a wonder how he can do this sort of thing having a deseased wife and all. Nontheless, he is still an awesome and hilarious character. Episode Twenty-two showed the audience that a little bit.
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Old 2008-07-23, 15:51   Link #265
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
On a separate note, I concur with Sorrow's thoughts on the jarring nature of the editing. Even allowing for 4-koma adaptation challenges, it sometimes seemed they weren't taking the production very seriously (which amplifies Kaoishin's observations that Kyoani mostly saw L*S's anime as a platform for other things than L*S itself.). A few more viewings of how AzuDa handled the adaptation issues might have been useful for them
Is AzuDa the archetype definer? To me it was way too boring, so I don't really understand the need of using it as the basis of anything that is slice of life.

Does 'taking production seriously' mean making it look like its archetype?

I have a hard time perceiving you guys' perception of a successful product, so bear with me as I ask that you explain exactly what that is.
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Old 2008-07-23, 16:54   Link #266
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No, I don't consider AzuDa an "archetype definer". I was using it to discuss a specific aspect of material adaptation (scene shifts). AzuDa took 4-koma material and stitched it together in a fairly smooth fashion whereas Lucky*Star seemed to relish the discontinuous shifts.

AzuDa the manga, was also intended of be of fixed length (duration of high school experience) whereas Lucky*Star, the manga is more ambiguous in that respect (it'll be over when the readership falls sufficiently).

I'll agree that we probably could have snipped six or seven episodes of the AzuDa series and amped it up --- but since the apparent goal of the animation was pretty much to mirror the 4-koma page by page we got a number of "slow odd" episodes that many describe as boring.

No, "taking the production seriously" wasn't meant that it should be more like AzuDa or any so-called archetype, just that there were a number of aspects of production which had me wondering about their intent in bringing L*S to the screen. It seemed a conflicting mixed bag of intent considering how much wasn't actually "Lucky*Star".

I love watching Lucky*Star, I am faithfully buying the anime DVDs and I have spent a lot of money on the merchandise (manga, CDs, and figures) ... but it doesn't mean I'm a 'fanboi' that can see no flaw or that 'defends it to the death'.


On a separate note, thought experiment for people: Imagine being an adult and wandering around in a park, zoo, or museum. You see a heart-splittingly cute junior high school girl and would like to take her picture to cherish the memory. You think it marvelous that such things exist in the world. Are you a lolicon or pedophile?
Or perhaps someone who just appreciates "cute"....?
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Old 2008-07-23, 17:14   Link #267
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Vexx, lolipedofin.
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Old 2008-07-23, 17:53   Link #268
Rembr
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
No, "taking the production seriously" wasn't meant that it should be more like AzuDa or any so-called archetype, just that there were a number of aspects of production which had me wondering about their intent in bringing L*S to the screen. It seemed a conflicting mixed bag of intent considering how much wasn't actually "Lucky*Star".
What kind of intent should they have?

Quote:
On a separate note, thought experiment for people: Imagine being an adult and wandering around in a park, zoo, or museum. You see a heart-splittingly cute junior high school girl and would like to take her picture to cherish the memory. You think it marvelous that such things exist in the world. Are you a lolicon or pedophile?
Or perhaps someone who just appreciates "cute"....?
If I was on Family Feud, I'll say Creepy. And I'm confident I'll get a lot of points.
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Old 2008-07-23, 20:12   Link #269
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(sigh), its rather sad that that is the auto-kneejerk response.... no bonus points for asserting Family Feud as some bastion of "what's normal"

Rather reminds me of when my 20-something aged son and I go out and about.
Far too frequently, people first assume he's my 'boy-toy' and we're out on a date.

I guess that's "creepy" too.... :P
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Old 2008-07-23, 20:28   Link #270
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It's not really about how you feel about it. If you don't think people will think it creepy to go to high schools and take pictures of random high school girls, it might behoove you to keep in mind that some people will go much farther than just thinking you're creepy. But whatever, I don't really care about the whole creepiness deal. Can you address my other question, though?
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Old 2008-07-23, 21:13   Link #271
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Notice I never mentioned "going to high schools" in my thought experiment ..... but if you're referring to Soujirou sports day adventure - he's rather inept. He should have hung a "Sports Photographer" badge on himself

As far as "intent should they have" -- I'm not demanding the animators have a certain intent which the "should" seems to infer, only that I *prefer* that animation people try to capture the heart of the material they're using and not layer all sorts of other things on top of it. Besides, as I said earlier I was discussing adaptation techniques and used a specific example of a difference, not comparing entire series.
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Old 2008-07-24, 00:35   Link #272
Anh_Minh
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(sigh), its rather sad that that is the auto-kneejerk response.... no bonus points for asserting Family Feud as some bastion of "what's normal"

Rather reminds me of when my 20-something aged son and I go out and about.
Far too frequently, people first assume he's my 'boy-toy' and we're out on a date.

I guess that's "creepy" too.... :P
What's creepy is that they'd make that assumption in the first place. What kind of world do they have, inside their heads?

Unless they caught you making out with your own son, you dirty pervert.
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Old 2008-07-24, 03:07   Link #273
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What kind of intent should they have?

If I was on Family Feud, I'll say Creepy. And I'm confident I'll get a lot of points.
Considering the number of hosts that show goes through I'd say you and everyone here has just as much a chance of being the next host of Family Feud as being a contestant on it. So you can ask the questions like you just did and we'll provide the survey answers. Seriously though, Family Feud just gives you the common American response which is so heavily influenced by pop culture at this point that it's kind of hard to take as a well-thought out viewpoint. The average person will just believe whatever he is told and that's good enough for them. No need to think about the in's and out's of anything or to consider alternate possibilites and belief systems. QUICK SNAP JUDGEMENTS AND RESPONSES ARE WHAT AMERICA WANTS! IN THIS VOICE TOO!

By the answer is Vexx. You are Vexx at 80 respondents. Kaioshin at 10 a Lolicon at 9 and a 1 at cute
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Old 2008-07-24, 03:45   Link #274
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What's creepy is that they'd make that assumption in the first place. What kind of world do they have, inside their heads?
People snap-judge assume he's not related to me and then they assume he's my date. It goes downhill for them from there.
Spoiler for ugly mug check, avoid if you'd prefer keeping me a vaporous haze...:

More snap-dilweed assumptions:
1) my japanese-american wife and my euro-irish self will be shopping and standing *right next to each other* often discussing an item. Sales clerk will walk up and ask her if she needs help. Then she'll ask me if I need help. I'll say "...... I'm with her." They get embarrassed.
2) Same scenario except they'll ask ME if SHE needs help (they assume she speaks no english)..... usually she'll respond in a nasty Texas accent. They get embarrassed.

I remember a Canadian border guard getting beet-red embarrassed when he asked ME if SHE could speak english.... I won't even repeat what she said in her growliest texas accent....

Last edited by Vexx; 2008-07-24 at 04:06.
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Old 2008-07-24, 04:30   Link #275
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
People snap-judge assume he's not related to me and then they assume he's my date. It goes downhill for them from there.
Spoiler for ugly mug check, avoid if you'd prefer keeping me a vaporous haze...:

More snap-dilweed assumptions:
1) my japanese-american wife and my euro-irish self will be shopping and standing *right next to each other* often discussing an item. Sales clerk will walk up and ask her if she needs help. Then she'll ask me if I need help. I'll say "...... I'm with her." They get embarrassed.
2) Same scenario except they'll ask ME if SHE needs help (they assume she speaks no english)..... usually she'll respond in a nasty Texas accent. They get embarrassed.

I remember a Canadian border guard getting beet-red embarrassed when he asked ME if SHE could speak english.... I won't even repeat what she said in her growliest texas accent....
Every time you post a picture of yourself with that awesome beardstache it brings a smile to my face.
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Old 2008-07-24, 10:02   Link #276
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While I agree that Soujirou is harmless, and I may have even prefered to have a father like him to the one that I do have, I really do find some of his activities creepy.

I know a lot of it stems from missing his wife. I think a lot of it is just the way he is too. He did basically admit that he's lolicon in one episode, though I can't remember which.

I'm a girl. I know that if I were still in high school and I spotted a middle aged man taking numerous very enthusiastic snapshots of myself and my friends in our gym clothes at a sports fest (especially if none of us were his children), I would feel creeped out, uncomfortable, and I would want him to leave. I guess the point is arguable, but imagining myself as a subject in one of his escapades makes me shudder a little.

Quote:
Rather reminds me of when my 20-something aged son and I go out and about.
Far too frequently, people first assume he's my 'boy-toy' and we're out on a date.

I guess that's "creepy" too.... :P
Now that is just wrong. Who would think that before father and son? Retards.
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Old 2008-07-24, 12:14   Link #277
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True enough on Soujirou and we'll assume that a student recognized him, knew that Konata was out for the day, rolled their eyes at Konata's incorrigible dad, and the rest got animated

We're actually derailing a fair bit from episode 22 (and my fault as much as any)
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Old 2008-07-24, 13:05   Link #278
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True enough on Soujirou and we'll assume that a student recognized him, knew that Konata was out for the day, rolled their eyes at Konata's incorrigible dad, and the rest got animated
Wasn't Konata watching TV from home? He went to a totally different school's sports festival and took pictures of girls.
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Old 2008-07-24, 13:15   Link #279
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Konata's father was a main participant in episode 22, therefore we should see this more of "side-tracking" as opposed to "off-topic"...(play along)

Konata's father did go to another sports festival that Konata never attended, and even when he went to her real one he was just taking pictures of random school girls whom were in the races and events..as it showed. Then those coaches carry him off, which is a huge hint of what he is doing. (I wonder what he does with the pictures that he takes..)

I suppose he is just used to girls that are similar to Kanata's size. She was not exactly a loli as she was way over the legal age...and a mother. It was funny though when Kagami sees that picture of Kanata with Soujiro together and thinks that it is Konata. Then when Konata explains to her that it is her mother, she says "Is that even legal?". That made me laugh.
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Old 2008-07-24, 14:08   Link #280
Vexx
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Well, he simply admires them of course :P

Hmmm, don't recall him visiting any school but Konata's but it isn't hard to imagine him just wandering around anywhere anytime snapping pictures of his favorite flavor of girl.

The word "loli" has gotten so smushed up by misapplication it hardly has a standard meaning anymore (outside of Japan at least). Many people would simply tag Kanata as "loli" regardless of her age or motherhood.

Kagami (righteous little thing she is ) ... may not even realize Konata's parents were the same age. She's hilarious when her braingears grind like that.
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