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Old 2008-07-23, 20:53   Link #181
martino
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pichu, you hang around in groups with too many "high-end resources".
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Old 2008-07-24, 03:02   Link #182
Quarkboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiberOptiC View Post
I wouldn't say that doing karaoke and signs (logos) in .ass is deprecated. Many groups still use it for everything and don't even touch professional level programs such as after effects. Since most people sub in the spare time, most wont pay the money for programs like that. God forbid they pirate it! I would have a hard time saying even half the groups do stuff with lots of afx work.
I did some afx work for a few shows like hataraki man (which had a lot of text overlays) where I ended up doing all the typesetting in afx (even simple stuff).

Actually, once you learn how to use the program pretty well, it can be FASTER to typeset a moving sign that way, since it's as simple as type in, wysiwyg style, motion track, render to huffy, add into avs.
Styling with .ass takes a bit of trial and error to get the sizes and movement right, and for any motion that isn't linear it can be a real pain.

I don't think I'd use it again, though. It can look really nice but I'm not sure it's worth it. In any case, AFX is really not that scary. Fansubbing only requires the usage of a tiny fraction of its power, so as long as you limit yourself to what you need to do it's not that hard to use.
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Old 2008-07-24, 03:44   Link #183
TGEN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
In any case, AFX is really not that scary. Fansubbing only requires the usage of a tiny fraction of its power, so as long as you limit yourself to what you need to do it's not that hard to use.
It is ridiculously expensive though, especially considering you only require the use of a tiny fraction of its power, as you say. That makes a big enough barrier for most people. I'm not even sure if there's a trial version people can use to see if it's worth it?
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Old 2008-07-24, 05:18   Link #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGEN View Post
It is ridiculously expensive though, especially considering you only require the use of a tiny fraction of its power, as you say. That makes a big enough barrier for most people. I'm not even sure if there's a trial version people can use to see if it's worth it?
Considering that fansubbing is illegal to begin with, as long as I'm not selling anything I create with it I see using a pirated edition of the software no worse than fansubbing in the first place, from a moral/legal standpoint.
And unlike fansubbing, I think it'd be a really hard argument to make that stealing AFX for the purpose of fansubbing is hurting the software industry directly.

But like I said, it's hardly necessary, so there's no harm in not using it. If you feel like pirating the software is wrong and don't want to pay the money for a legit copy, don't.
All I'm saying is that AFX is not really a slower method of typesetting, and can be much quicker and give better results in certain circumstances that the ass standard is not well suited for.
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Old 2008-07-24, 06:33   Link #185
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
Considering that fansubbing is illegal to begin with, as long as I'm not selling anything I create with it I see using a pirated edition of the software no worse than fansubbing in the first place, from a moral/legal standpoint.
And unlike fansubbing, I think it'd be a really hard argument to make that stealing AFX for the purpose of fansubbing is hurting the software industry directly.

But like I said, it's hardly necessary, so there's no harm in not using it. If you feel like pirating the software is wrong and don't want to pay the money for a legit copy, don't.
All I'm saying is that AFX is not really a slower method of typesetting, and can be much quicker and give better results in certain circumstances that the ass standard is not well suited for.
I agree with you about afx. I personally avoid using it because of other reasons. Mostly because if the afx guy disappears you are somewhat screwed in most cases, and because I've seen many afx things get botched in the encode. But over all it is useful and can do alot of things better than .ass format.
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Old 2008-07-24, 08:26   Link #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
I agree with you about afx. I personally avoid using it because of other reasons. Mostly because if the afx guy disappears you are somewhat screwed in most cases, and because I've seen many afx things get botched in the encode. But over all it is useful and can do alot of things better than .ass format.
If someone would just get off their butts and write a wsywig typesetting interface that outputs .ass natively, and include a simple but functional motion tracking functionality, then there would really be no need for afx outside of logo creation.

Actually creating logos with afx is a lot of fun, especially if they sparkle or have interesting lighting effects. Trying to match the original animation as closely as possible is sort of like a reverse engineering problem.
Then again that sort of "excess" is exactly the thing people complain about with fansubbing and I don't endorse it .

Ah, I've driven this off-topic again and xris is going to delete these posts, I can tell ... (not that the original topic was getting anywhere anyway)
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Old 2008-07-24, 08:58   Link #187
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
If someone would just get off their butts and write a wsywig typesetting interface that outputs .ass natively, and include a simple but functional motion tracking functionality, then there would really be no need for afx outside of logo creation.

Actually creating logos with afx is a lot of fun, especially if they sparkle or have interesting lighting effects. Trying to match the original animation as closely as possible is sort of like a reverse engineering problem.
Then again that sort of "excess" is exactly the thing people complain about with fansubbing and I don't endorse it .

Ah, I've driven this off-topic again and xris is going to delete these posts, I can tell ... (not that the original topic was getting anywhere anyway)
Hum... I still do logos in .ass, and mine turn out pretty well I think. Logo making in .ass is all about the level of experience you have with layers, alphas, and colors. Generally if you have been styling dialogue for awhile you will have a good understanding of how to make logos.
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Old 2008-07-24, 09:10   Link #188
pichu
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(so I just turned this thread into .ass vs afx discussion? ;p)

Anyways, AFX isn't really that expensive; it costs like $500 standalone? If you're using it for fansubbing, of course it's too much because you're contributing for free. But, if you're using for video special effects or commercials and you're earning some amount of money, a few grands(AFX, PhotoShop plus a few plugins) is really nothing in comparison to the money you gained from it. For typesetting, logos, etc - we don't even use just AFX alone anyways - Photoshop, Illustrator, and sometimes Maya are used together with After-Effects. I've been suggested to make a complete .ass importer and exporter for AFX, but I am refusing that concept because implementation of \fn is impossible (everything else in .ass but \fn can be done in AFX through scripts) to be imported/exported without writing my own plugin and effect.
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