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Old 2008-07-27, 22:30   Link #3041
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
That said, GinoKallen has been built up a lot more than LelouchKallen.
I hope that's sarcasm.
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:30   Link #3042
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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
I already said it probably won't happen. That said, GinoKallen has been built up a lot more than LelouchKallen.
Oh good, someone has not been paying attention to most of what Kallen has been doing this season.
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:32   Link #3043
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I already said it probably won't happen. That said, GinoKallen has been built up a lot more than LelouchKallen.
.
ROFLMAO? i think someone needs to rewatch R2 again... waiting for Var's crushing rebuttal.
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:32   Link #3044
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
I hope that's sarcasm.
It's mostly just to annoy the silly LelouchKallen fans. I personally see both as very unlikely.
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:32   Link #3045
Var
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That said, GinoKallen has been built up a lot more than LelouchKallen.
I don't think that even deserves an answer for the amount of liquid stupid flowing from every orphus.

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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
He's been trying to call out Lelouch since the start of R2, and for good reason. Lelouch never explained himself, and this is what Suzaku wants out of him. He was always concerned with Nunnally's safety, and saying he'd "only do it" in exchange for the meeting was just him making Lelouch meet with him. There's no way he'll knowingly compromise Nunnally's safety. And he DID disagree with Nina about Freya, just like EVERYONE ELSE at that meeting. And if you can't see that Suzaku places Nunnally's safety as a top priority, then you clearly haven't been paying attention for the entirety of R1 and R2.

Of course, an alternative path I can see Suzaku taking is using the opportunity to capture Lelouch and deliver him to the Emperor, since this would both crush his war effort and protect Nunnally. We'll see what happens, though.
He compromised Nunally's safety when he made a deal with the devil. He accepted the orders to take her back to the mainland the moment that Lelouch is confirmed to be Zero.

He also did not disagree, he said nothing. Lloyd disagreed, Suzaku was wishywashy at best. Suzaku does not place Nunally's safety as top priority, because he's been lying to her, undermining her authority, using her as a puppet, and at times completely forgetting about her to chase after Lelouch.

Edit: I completely forgot, when the Emperor reappeared, Lelouch freaked out, Suzaku plotted. Tell me, just how focused is Suzaku on Nunally's safety... and not his own vendetta and search for answers?

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It's mostly just to annoy the silly LelouchKallen fans. I personally see both as very unlikely.
Pretty sure that that's called trolling, but that aside, seeing where C.C. is right now, Kallen is the only one who can save Lelouch from himself. As for Gino x Kallen, two whole scenes of no reaction on her part. She doesn't give a damn about him, he flirts with everything with two legs and breasts. As for his confrontation with Luciano, that wasn't for Kallen's sake, Luciano had just attacked Suzaku, Gino's good friend. 1 + 1 = 2.
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:39   Link #3046
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
He compromised Nunally's safety when he made a deal with the devil. He accepted the orders to take her back to the mainland the moment that Lelouch is confirmed to be Zero.
And Nunnally's been quite safe the entire time, even becoming a governor.

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He also did not disagree, he said nothing. Lloyd disagreed, Suzaku was wishywashy at best.
Suzaku more or less said "How can you ask me to do that?" and then he was a bit dumbstruck when that bitch did the one thing that always manages to get such a response out of him, mentioning Euphy's name. Lloyd pretty much popped in before he could say anything additionally.
Quote:
Suzaku does not place Nunally's safety as top priority, because he's been lying to her, undermining her authority, using her as a puppet, and at times completely forgetting about her to chase after Lelouch.
lol wut? He's been lying to her no more than Lelouch does about what he REALLY does (and he lies on the same topic more or less), he STRENGHENED her authority against Romeyer when she wanted to slaughter the million Zeros, let her talk to her brother (I personally never saw anything even slightly wrong with this move), and when did this last part EVER happen?
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Edit: I completely forgot, when the Emperor reappeared, Lelouch freaked out, Suzaku plotted. Tell me, just how focused is Suzaku on Nunally's safety... and not his own vendetta and search for answers?
Suzaku already freaked out in a previous episode. No need to show us a repeat performance. In fact, we weren't shown how Suzaku reacted to his reapparance at all, only knowledge that he had "heard the news."
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As for his confrontation with Luciano, that wasn't for Kallen's sake, Luciano had just attacked Suzaku, Gino's good friend. 1 + 1 = 2.
Apparently, dialogue means nothing to you.
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:44   Link #3047
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
Suzaku more or less said "How can you ask me to do that?" and then he was a bit dumbstruck when that bitch did the one thing that always manages to get such a response out of him, mentioning Euphy's name. Lloyd pretty much popped in before he could say anything additionally.
On the subject of Lloyd, this was about the closest he came to a threat in the entire series. I'm glad he's not as willing to put up with Nina's nonsense.
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:44   Link #3048
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And Nunnally's been quite safe the entire time, even becoming a governor.
Nunally is in a bird cage, again. She is safe, yes, but she's also being exploited. Very caring of Suzaku.

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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
Suzaku more or less said "How can you ask me to do that?" and then he was a bit dumbstruck when that bitch did the one thing that always manages to get such a response out of him, mentioning Euphy's name. Lloyd pretty much popped in before he could say anything additionally.
The moment Euphemia was brought up he crumbled, Lloyd tried to help Suzaku, but Suzaku himself said nothing past that point. Meaning, quite simply, that he is considering it.

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lol wut? He's been lying to her no more than Lelouch does about what he REALLY does (and he lies on the same topic more or less), he STRENGHENED her authority against Romeyer when she wanted to slaughter the million Zeros, and when did this last part EVER happen?
... Lelouch has never lied to Nunally in a way to subvert her powers for his own gain. Nor has Lelouch ever put Nunally as the bait for catching someone. I can go on listing things. As for the last part: See the ENTIRE CHINA ARC.

Quote:
Suzaku already freaked out in a previous episode. No need to show us a repeat performance. In fact, we weren't shown how Suzaku reacted to his reapparance at all, only knowledge that he had "heard the news."
Last episode he mused about his duty to have to take Nunally to Charles if Lelouch was Zero. He never went 'Oh shit, Nunally's in danger!11'.

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Apparently, dialogue means nothing to you.
Apperantely your brain isn't working because scene order and certain events are just as important as dialogue.
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:50   Link #3049
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
Nunally is in a bird cage, again. She is safe, yes, but she's also being exploited. Very caring of Suzaku.
Nunnally VOLUNTEERED to be viceroy, remember? Yes, Zero was a bit dumbstruck by this too... several episodes ago. And Suzaku decided against telling the higher-ups about Zero being Lelouch BECAUSE he didn't want Nunnally to be used.
Quote:
The moment Euphemia was brought up he crumbled, Lloyd tried to help Suzaku, but Suzaku himself said nothing past that point. Meaning, quite simply, that he is considering it.
Being dumbstruck over the mention of Euphy's name isn't the same as "considering." Considering he had the exact same reaction last time that bitch did this, I imagine his thoughts are more akin to those of a wounded dog. And again, Lloyd responded before Suzaku COULD say anything.
Quote:
... Lelouch has never lied to Nunally in a way to subvert her powers for his own gain. Nor has Lelouch ever put Nunally as the bait for catching someone. I can go on listing things. As for the last part: See the ENTIRE CHINA ARC.
When did Suzaku lie to Nunnally for his own gain? He told her she'd get to speak with a good friend of his, and she did. And when has she been used as "bait"? Nunnally wasn't ever put in danger by Suzaku. The only one at risk from the phone call stunt was Lelouch himself, and even now we know Suzaku wouldn't have told the Emperor because of what he said he'd do. And what part of the China arc are you talking about? The part where he aided Nunnally's authority against Romeyer or the part where he joined a military campaign as a soldier after giving her said strengthened authority, something that had nothing to do with finding out about Zero?
Quote:
Last episode he mused about his duty to have to take Nunally to Charles if Lelouch was Zero. He never went 'Oh shit, Nunally's in danger!11'.
Not everyone has the same verbal reactions as Lelouch, and at that point Suzaku still had the control to keep Nunnally safe since Charles didn't know about Zero. And he WAS conflictedly happy when Charles disappeared.
Quote:
Apperantely your brain isn't working because scene order and certain events are just as important as dialogue.
So you're seriously saying that the dialogue in the scene meant absolutely nothing, even when we have no evidence he even knew about the murder attempt. Right. Can we just drop this?
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Old 2008-07-27, 22:56   Link #3050
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He never went 'Oh shit, Nunally's in danger!11'.
Didn't he just say this recent eps, "Should I be happy big daddy's gone? Nunnally should be safe now."

Quote:
The moment Euphemia was brought up he crumbled, Lloyd tried to help Suzaku, but Suzaku himself said nothing past that point. Meaning, quite simply, that he is considering it.
You'd think that out of all the people Suzaku would know Euphie the best (Aside from Cornelia, Lelouch, Nunnally, etc.) that he would at least just step up and defend her honor.
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:02   Link #3051
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I feel like this is getting a bit Suzaku-centric... so in the interest of having more directly on-topic discussion, who thinks Kallen will go to town on Suzaku at least one more time before this series is over?
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:06   Link #3052
morbosfist
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I'm hoping she scraps the Lancelot in retaliation. He needs a good loss and I want to see how Lloyd would react.
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:10   Link #3053
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I'd say what happened with Euphy was a rather huge loss, since he was supposed to be her knight and he was in love with her... but if you mean a battle loss in particular, I think it'd affect Lloyd more than Suzaku. Ritualistic suicide. :P
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:11   Link #3054
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Great, time to go bash my head through another wall. Now, let's go through why you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
Nunnally VOLUNTEERED to be viceroy, remember? Yes, Zero was a bit dumbstruck by this too... several episodes ago. And Suzaku decided against telling the higher-ups about Zero being Lelouch BECAUSE he didn't want Nunnally to be used.
Nunally NEVER VOLUNTEERED to be a puppet, remember?

Now, onto things you simply were misinformed about or just simply did not watch:
  • Zero was never dumbstruck by Nunally's decision, he was broken by it because Nunally flat out told Lelouch that she did not agree with his methods. Lelouch's very reason for fighting told him, flat out, that he was doing it the wrong way.

Suzaku found out only this episode that Lelouch was Zero. Him saying that Lelouch, a supposed dead prince, was Zero before would have flown about as far as a rock with wings taped to it. Prior to this, he has more than just Nunally as reasons to not say anything, notably Charles' orders. The entire ordeal was a secret, hence the secret agency. If he says anything at all, he'd endanger the mission of the agency.

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Being dumbstruck over the mention of Euphy's name isn't the same as "considering." Considering he had the exact same reaction last time that bitch did this, I imagine his thoughts are more akin to those of a wounded dog.
Stop using the word dumbstruck. He wasn't dumbstruck, he was caught off guard by Nina playing Euphemia against him. She was coaxing him into using the weapon, hence why Lloyd threatened her. Suzaku was being taken in, listen to Lloyd's words, and Lloyd stepped in to try and stop that. If Suzaku was just dumbstruck and not considering it, Lloyd would have had no reason to actually flat out threaten Nina.

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When did Suzaku lie to Nunnally for his own gain? He told her she'd get to speak with a good friend of his, and she did. And when has she been used as "bait"? Nunnally wasn't ever put in danger by Suzaku. The only one at risk fro the phone call stunt was Lelouch himself, and even now we know Suzaku wouldn't have told the Emperor because of what he said he'd do. And what part of the China arc are you talking about? The part where he aided Nunnally's authority against Romeyer or the part where he joined a military campaign as a soldier after giving her said strengthened authority, something that had nothing to do with finding out about Zero?
When has Suzaku lied to Nunally for his own gain? How about: About Ashford, about her brother, about Kallen, about various things that Nunally apperantely suspected enough to both have him say that she was losing her trust in him and for her to try and use her truth-test on him.

She was used as bait in Episode 5 R2. Pretty simple, really.
She hasn't been put in danger by Suzaku? He baited Lelouch with her, that's putting her danger.

The China arc part where he leaves his post as Nunally's advisor, leaving her in the hands of Romeyer who (as we saw) began ruling over Nunally and cheating the Japanese, to chase after Zero with Schneizel. So his said strengthened authority did about as much as a steel bar in a floating contest.

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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
Not everyone has the same verbal reactions as Lelouch, and at that point Suzaku still had the control to keep Nunnally safe since Charles didn't know about Zero. And he WAS conflictedly happy when Charles disappeared.
And yet, the moment he found out that Lelouch was Zero, he did not put his focus on making sure Nunally was safe or about what he'd have to do with the Emperor now back, but instead gouded Lelouch into confronting him for his answers. I'm sorry, but Suzaku is far more concerned with answers than Nunally. He bargained her for them.

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So you're seriously saying that the dialogue in the scene meant absolutely nothing, even when we have no evidence he even knew about the murder attempt. Right. Can we just drop this?
Are you seriously suggesting that Gino just happens to appear, after Suzaku and Anya get attacked and insulted by Luciano, and taunt Luciano just for Kallen? Maybe, just maybe, the build up suggest that he used Kallen to get to Luciano?

Sure, he did not know, but he also did not know about Kallen's situation yet he happens to appear with perfect timing. And you deem one line that is more of an attack on Luciano than a defense of Kallen, as some sort of showing of a pairing? Kallen did not even react to Gino. Sorry, but... no.
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:11   Link #3055
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Yes, I mean a battle loss. He's gotten away fairly clean in his battles. Someone needs to own him before this series ends.
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:13   Link #3056
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I'm hoping she scraps the Lancelot in retaliation. He needs a good loss and I want to see how Lloyd would react.
He didn't react all that well when it took a shot to the head. So maybe we shouldn't completely total the machine for his sake . Considering all the times it almost feels inevitable that they will get at least a short matchup in their new units.
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Yes, I mean a battle loss. He's gotten away fairly clean in his battles. Someone needs to own him before this series ends.
Other than during the battle against the EU has Suzaku gotten much in terms of clean wins in season 2? Took some damage from the Guren in 6 and floater got wrecked against Todou a few episodes later. So while he hasn't gotten a complete loss its not like he's walked all over everyone either.

I don't see what the big deal is if Gino intended to help out Kallen. Other than people being terrified of that pairing being mentioned, the act itself isn't horrific. Completely possible that he didn't like her being threatened like that and decided to step in. Personally think LelouchxKallen would be a fine pairing. But its not like I'd worry if someone showed interest in Kallen or decided to help her out.
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:15   Link #3057
morbosfist
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He didn't react all that well when it took a shot to the head. So maybe we shouldn't completely total the machien for his sake . Considering all the times it almost feels inevitable that they will get at least a short matchup in their new units.
I know, I know, but I still want to see it. It'll probably help that the thing tearing apart his baby is his and Cecile's baby.

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Considering all the times it almost feels inevitable that they will get at least a short matchup in their new units.Other than during the battle against the EU has Suzaku gotten much in terms of clean wins in season 2? Took some damage from the Guren in 6 and floater got wrecked against Todou a few episodes later. So while he hasn't gotten a complete loss its not like he's walked all over everyone either.
But he always manages to avoid important damage, and he even got Tohdoh's arm before falling. He never really loses, just ties or is forced to withdraw.
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:24   Link #3058
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I know, I know, but I still want to see it. It'll probably help that the thing tearing apart his baby is his and Cecile's baby.
Man that might really mess him up. His children tearing each other apart....Could get wild reactions each time one lands a blow. Maybe someone should turn off the screen for his sake.
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But he always manages to avoid important damage, and he even got Tohdoh's arm before falling. He never really loses, just ties or is forced to withdraw.
Yeah has avoided complete disaster. Lost an arm against Kallen in season 1, cockpit area chopped open and wheels damaged during the Tohdoh rescue, and just lucked out when he first went up against the Guren. Guess since I like the Lancelot I just really don't want it to get messed up.
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:24   Link #3059
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Great, time to go bash my head through another wall. Now, let's go through why you are wrong.



Nunally NEVER VOLUNTEERED to be a puppet, remember?

Now, onto things you simply were misinformed about or just simply did not watch:
  • Zero was never dumbstruck by Nunally's decision, he was broken by it because Nunally flat out told Lelouch that she did not agree with his methods. Lelouch's very reason for fighting told him, flat out, that he was doing it the wrong way.

Suzaku found out only this episode that Lelouch was Zero. Him saying that Lelouch, a supposed dead prince, was Zero before would have flown about as far as a rock with wings taped to it. Prior to this, he has more than just Nunally as reasons to not say anything, notably Charles' orders. The entire ordeal was a secret, hence the secret agency. If he says anything at all, he'd endanger the mission of the agency.
Suzaku could have attempted to tell Charles the second he found out all the guards watching Lelouch were Geassed. Yet he didn't. This is because he is trying to PREVENT Nunnally from being used as a puppet by Charles. And I don't see where I disagreed with the bullet point. The dumbstruck more refers to his immediate reaction (the animé-style *gasp* and inability to reply to her)

Quote:
Stop using the word dumbstruck. He wasn't dumbstruck, he was caught off guard by Nina playing Euphemia against him. She was coaxing him into using the weapon, hence why Lloyd threatened her. Suzaku was being taken in, listen to Lloyd's words, and Lloyd stepped in to try and stop that. If Suzaku was just dumbstruck and not considering it, Lloyd would have had no reason to actually flat out threaten Nina.
Lloyd very much had reason to step in, just as I would have if I were a friend of Suzaku's and on the scene. That bitch was basically mind-raeping Suzaku to try and get her way.

Quote:
When has Suzaku lied to Nunally for his own gain? How about: About Ashford, about her brother, about Kallen, about various things that Nunally apperantely suspected enough to both have him say that she was losing her trust in him and for her to try and use her truth-test on him.

She was used as bait in Episode 5 R2. Pretty simple, really.
She hasn't been put in danger by Suzaku? He baited Lelouch with her, that's putting her danger.

The China arc part where he leaves his post as Nunally's advisor, leaving her in the hands of Romeyer who (as we saw) began ruling over Nunally and cheating the Japanese, to chase after Zero with Schneizel. So his said strengthened authority did about as much as a steel bar in a floating contest.
What about Ashford? As for her brother, that whole situation cannot be called using her as "bait," because being "bait" implies being in danger from doing that. Nunnally was never put in danger for this, merely allowed to talk to her brother on the phone. And he certainly never used her to get to get to Kallen. He went in to interogate the prisoner; I fail to see how this involves Nunnally at all. As for Romeyer, as we saw, Nunnally learned to keep her in check, as Suzaku did.

Quote:
And yet, the moment he found out that Lelouch was Zero, he did not put his focus on making sure Nunally was safe or about what he'd have to do with the Emperor now back, but instead gouded Lelouch into confronting him for his answers. I'm sorry, but Suzaku is far more concerned with answers than Nunally. He bargained her for them.
He never bargained her; it was an incredibly obvious bluff. He already knew Lelouch was Zero before that, and his first thought THEN was concern over what Charles would do with Nunnally, if you'll recall a few episodes ago.

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Are you seriously suggesting that Gino just happens to appear, after Suzaku and Anya get attacked and insulted by Luciano, and taunt Luciano just for Kallen? Maybe, just maybe, the build up suggest that he used Kallen to get to Luciano?

Sure, he did not know, but he also did not know about Kallen's situation yet he happens to appear with perfect timing. And you deem one line that is more of an attack on Luciano than a defense of Kallen, as some sort of showing of a pairing? Kallen did not even react to Gino. Sorry, but... no.
It's incredibly easy to find out (and would probably be mentioned by people in the building quite a lot) "The scumbag Luciano (who probably has a history of abusing female prisoners) just went to visit Kallen." He had the entire duration of Luciano's prior conversation to get there. And I already said several posts back that I don't support the pairing, so like I said, we should drop this before you make your ability to read scenes with plainly presented dialogue seem extremely limited. No, it is not a pairing. I've said this already, but you seem to want to claim I mean things I don't to help your argument. Yes, he has a sense of decency and didn't want the "bloodsucker" doing something dishonourable.

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Great, time to go bash my head through another wall. Now, let's go through why you are wrong.
By the way, statements like this, along with the personal insult a bit further up the page about my brain's working state, only make you appear rude. I hope this isn't how you interact with people in person.

Last edited by Discerptor; 2008-07-27 at 23:52.
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Old 2008-07-27, 23:28   Link #3060
SonOfHeaven
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About Gino helping out Kallen isn't that big of a deal. At the beginning of the episode he didn't like how Nunally's helper lady treated her. Gino is just a nice guy. The scene between Gino and Lucreio was more about them than coming to Kallen's aid though Nunally would have stopped anyway. Like Gino said before during episode 11 that he wanted to get back at Kallen in a fight. Seems to me he wants that duel with Kallen. Regarding people getting upset about GinoxKallen, well there is only one person on Kallen's mind. No need to mention the name.
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