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Old 2008-06-06, 03:22   Link #1281
Keroko
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Mweh, I'm not comfortable with the Arc having a 1000+ km radius myself. The colateral damage would be unaceptable by TSAB terms, I'd say.
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Old 2008-06-06, 11:57   Link #1282
Jimmy C
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On the Arc's blast radius range, even the chinese trans uses "over a hundred km". This looks like yet another mistrans.
However, that's just the size of the dimensional distortions it produces. Secondary damage effects probably extend well beyond 200km from the blast point.
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Old 2008-06-06, 12:36   Link #1283
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Yeah well because, that happened before there was life IIRC. I was refuting Earth getting blown apart by 1 Arc.
No no the Earth wouldn't go blown up by the Arc
But if you blasted a big say 1000km hole into the ocean that would be a lot of water suddenly rushing in and stuff...

But I believe the Arc also has a very big secondary radius. Since they said even if they moved out to the ocean the "distortions would still cause victims".
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Old 2008-06-06, 14:41   Link #1284
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Hmmmm... Short-range primary damage + long-range secondary blast seems logical... Actually all forced dimentional manipulations seems to have long-range effects (though we didn't seen and told about many of them)...
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Old 2008-06-06, 14:50   Link #1285
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
No no the Earth wouldn't go blown up by the Arc
But if you blasted a big say 1000km hole into the ocean that would be a lot of water suddenly rushing in and stuff...
You'd have a big nice tsunami that not even the most hardcore surfers can even dream of.

1000km is a little more than France, from north to south or east to west.
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Old 2008-06-08, 00:01   Link #1286
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
You'd have a big nice tsunami that not even the most hardcore surfers can even dream of.

1000km is a little more than France, from north to south or east to west.
Hell, the atmospheric shockwaves from something that large would probably be fantastic in itself. Or even, you might actually blow a chunk of the atmosphere off into space. Depends on how much energy gets delivered DET in the blast.
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Old 2008-06-09, 19:52   Link #1287
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Originally Posted by Nagumo View Post
Wait, wait... and the Wolkenritter were only concerned on how such a blast would wipe out Hayate's house?!

It's not just 1000+ km! We're talking multiples of tens! So it's like 1000 - 10000 km or something.
Again, why is hyaku being multiplied by suujuu, leaving "suujuu's" exact size in abeyance (and of course suujuu by itself is <100)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
On the Arc's blast radius range, even the chinese trans uses "over a hundred km". This looks like yet another mistrans.
Well, the Chinese crews often find it easier to keep their translations straight, simply because in comparison they have a lot of familiar guides in Japanese to help them. It probably also explains why they are so darn fast - RAW comes out, next day sub comes out...

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However, that's just the size of the dimensional distortions it produces. Secondary damage effects probably extend well beyond 200km from the blast point.
Well, that's true.
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Old 2008-06-09, 21:46   Link #1288
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Again, why is hyaku being multiplied by suujuu, leaving "suujuu's" exact size in abeyance (and of course suujuu by itself is <100)?



Well, the Chinese crews often find it easier to keep their translations straight, simply because in comparison they have a lot of familiar guides in Japanese to help them. It probably also explains why they are so darn fast - RAW comes out, next day sub comes out...



Well, that's true.
There are then three options to the translation then, my first thought is that it was a few hundred kilometers. The second is that it's tens of hundreds, which is absurd given we'll go into the thousands of kilometers. The third option that it's between the number 100km and 200km.
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Old 2008-06-10, 10:28   Link #1289
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One possibility is that since the Arc-En-Ciel directly distorts spacetime is that an Arc Detonation also produces a pseudo-Gravity-well effect as a secondary effect. (being that according to general and special relativatiy, Gravity is the visible manifestation of
distortions in spacetime...)

so, The ship firing the Arc may initially be outside the primary area of effect, but may if it's not careful end up getting sucked into the Primary area of effect by this secondary pseudo-Gravity-well effect.

This would explain the whole 'area of effect larger than it's range' issue, since the primary are of effect is not, but the secondary could be. It would also explain why ship's need to translate immediately after firing...
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Old 2008-06-10, 20:08   Link #1290
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That's going to be so comforting to Tk, the reason why we are having this discussion in the first place...
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Old 2008-06-13, 04:56   Link #1291
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Originally Posted by Nagumo View Post
There are then three options to the translation then, my first thought is that it was a few hundred kilometers. The second is that it's tens of hundreds, which is absurd given we'll go into the thousands of kilometers. The third option that it's between the number 100km and 200km.
How could 百数十 possibly be anything but the third option?

http://eow.alc.co.jp/%e7%99%be%e6%95%b0%e5%8d%81/UTF-8/
Eijirou is a translator's resource done by translators, and it gives hyakusuujuu as "a hundred and several tens of".

Quote:
なんと百数十年も前に、(明治10年)自分と同じサスカッチュワン州からこの南部町に福音を届けに来ていた 宣教師がおられたという事実を知ったからだ。
Random search result for hyakusuujuu years ago, showing an exact year in the Meiji 10th year (ie 1878, or 130 years ago).

Quote:
http://img2.rivercrane.jp/photo/diar...614323100L.jpg
トリップメーター2万8千数百km→5千4百数十kmへ
Another random image search result, showing nimanhassensuuhyaku km for "28000 and several hundred", and gosen'yonhyakusuujuu km for "5400 and several tens".
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Old 2008-06-13, 05:02   Link #1292
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Thanks, Selkirk, I was running out of ways to explain the correct way to arrange of numbers in Japanese...
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Old 2008-06-13, 10:28   Link #1293
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Aha, so that's how it all works...

BTW, how's the Seinarukana translation project going along, Selkirk?
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Old 2008-07-30, 19:31   Link #1294
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Continued from Outer Cadia...

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The thing is, beamspam should be easy to overpower, but hard to control (A's with putting too much pressure on Nanoha's Body and the possibility of Detroying RH).
It's not the mage we're concerned about here, it's the spell itself. A bombardment spell of any sort should not have any kind of limits on the power it can channel, whereas shooting spells and the like may need different control functions once they've been boosted, hence the difference between Divine Buster and Excelion Buster. Alternatively, you may simply see an increase in number of rounds produced, like Nanoha's 4-shot Divine Shooter graduating to 8-to-12-shot Axel Shooter, or Plasma Lancer gaining the 'Turn' command ability.

Quote:
And for flash move? Talk about Zest "Full Drive" Ther :XD
Zest was a failed artificial mage with a failing body, which makes him a completely different bag of chips. Nanoha certainly didn't die from overclocking her spells with the Blaster System, so Zest's inability to use his top-tier spells without consequence is most likely a problem with his body, not everyone else's spells.

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Shields should be ok though, but i think the main difference in Negima and Nanoha shield is that Negima's strongest shiled are barely A rank, while Nanoha's can withstand much more (Hence Negi using Layered shield, which is really stupid).
On the contrary, if one shield won't block an attack, multiple layers of protection is always your next best bet unless the spell ignores shields entirely. It's like a guy with a bulletproof vest making a bullet travel through a few extra layers of kevlar before it even hits his vest.

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For "body enhancing", do notforget hat too much magic in a body that's not tightly controlled = Not Good, as shown by the Blaster method.
Every time I try to think of a body-reinforcement spell with too much power, I think of Son Goku or Ranma Saotome killing themselves by boosting themselves with too much ki and I laugh at the idea. Warriors who use reinforcement spells should already know how to compensate for the difference in force application as part of their training as knights/mages, and that's assuming the spell doesn't have built-in control subroutines and failsafes that do it for them. The Belkans spent hundreds of years refining spells like these; I think they would have addressed the problem of an overboosted spell and made it nearly impossible to do unless you really screwed up making the spell in the first place.
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Old 2008-07-30, 19:35   Link #1295
Wild Goose
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Actually with regards to the bulletproof vest (the correct term is body armor) it depends on the vest; Class I to Class IIA vests are soft vest relying on kevlar layers alone; Class III and Class IV military vests use layered kevlar and a hard armor insert plate to defeat the incoming bullet. (Previous insert plates were made from steel but are now made from ceramic composites.) There's a cloth outer layer that's thin and holds the vest together. Bullet hits the cloth and then the first kevlar layers, then hits the insert plate and is stopped.
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Old 2008-07-30, 19:37   Link #1296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Continued from Outer Cadia...


It's not the mage we're concerned about here, it's the spell itself. A bombardment spell of any sort should not have any kind of limits on the power it can channel, whereas shooting spells and the like may need different control functions once they've been boosted, hence the difference between Divine Buster and Excelion Buster. Alternatively, you may simply see an increase in number of rounds produced, like Nanoha's 4-shot Divine Shooter graduating to 8-to-12-shot Axel Shooter, or Plasma Lancer gaining the 'Turn' command ability.


Zest was a failed artificial mage with a failing body, which makes him a completely different bag of chips. Nanoha certainly didn't die from overclocking her spells with the Blaster System, so Zest's inability to use his top-tier spells without consequence is most likely a problem with his body, not everyone else's spells.


On the contrary, if one shield won't block an attack, multiple layers of protection is always your next best bet unless the spell ignores shields entirely. It's like a guy with a bulletproof vest making a bullet travel through a few extra layers of kevlar before it even hits his vest.


Every time I try to think of a body-reinforcement spell with too much power, I think of Son Goku or Ranma Saotome killing themselves by boosting themselves with too much ki and I laugh at the idea. Warriors who use reinforcement spells should already know how to compensate for the difference in force application as part of their training as knights/mages, and that's assuming the spell doesn't have built-in control subroutines and failsafes that do it for them. The Belkans spent hundreds of years refining spells like these; I think they would have addressed the problem of an overboosted spell and made it nearly impossible to do unless you really screwed up making the spell in the first place.


1.Oh? is that Why, in A's, Nanoha couldn't do a regular Divind Buster and had to both make a barrel shot, and then a barely controled spell that split? Ok... O.o

2. Zest was a failed Experiment, but that doesn't change the Fact he couldn't use a powerful spell because of the stress it inflicted on its body. ^^ So there *is* a stress.

3. If you use 1000000 layers of barriers, it wouldn't make a difference. "Diving Buster" is a cntinuous spell, meaning that the moment it crushes a barrier its back at full strength. It's either a strong barrier, or dodge!

4. Magic isn't KI. Magic is *harmful* in too great quantity. It said so in the show. Please, do not contradict the show.
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Old 2008-07-30, 20:00   Link #1297
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Oh? is that Why, in A's, Nanoha couldn't do a regular Divind Buster and had to both make a barrel shot, and then a barely controled spell that split? Ok... O.o
I'm not sure I understand the question, but what Nanoha used against the BoD was an Excelion Buster with Force Burst and Barrel Shot tacked on to it, not a plain old Excelion Buster (plus Blaster 1) like she used against Deici on the Cradle.

Quote:
Zest was a failed Experiment, but that doesn't change the Fact he couldn't use a powerful spell because of the stress it inflicted on its body. ^^ So there *is* a stress.
All spells have a stress on the linker core, the question is can the mage handle that stress and still function without a problem (most of the lesser spells you see mages use) or will it tax them to their limits (like Full Drives and "Ultimate Techniques" like Starlight Breaker)? Zest couldn't handle spells he probably had no problem using in his first life because his resurrected body was weaker than it originally was.

Let me make one thing absoutely clear here; when I talk about overboosted spells, I'm not talking about spells boosted beyond the mage's ability to control. I'm talking about spells with more power than they were originally designed to make use of. Picture how Naruto always makes hundreds of clones of himself when most ninja can only make two or three. Same concept goes for mages; I'm envisioning Hayate using an S-rank spell but boosting it into the SS-rank because of her control issues, not boosting a SS-rank spell into the SSS-range. Boosting a spell beyond your linker core's ability to power is going to cause problems no matter who you are or how high your mage rank is.

Quote:
Magic isn't KI.
Same difference as far as boosting the body is concerned. The two forces are similar enough in their usage that I've even seen an idea proposed a while back (when I was still just getting started on the Nanoha/Negima crossover) that Belkans are already using ki in addition to their magic, which is what makes their melee spells so strong.

Quote:
Magic is *harmful* in too great quantity. It said so in the show. Please, do not contradict the show.
Where in the show has it said that too much magic is harmful to the body? All I know of to that effect is that overstressing your linker core by using more magic than it can handle is dangerous, but I've never heard anything to the effect that your body can only take so many boosting spells being cast on it.
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Old 2008-07-30, 20:06   Link #1298
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Mmms...either it stresses the body, or the linker core stressing stresses the body. Either case, using too much magic stresses the body (Nanoha bleeding, othercharacter puffing). Oh ,and Quattro didn't talk about linker core. She talked about the body. Like ,too much magic in Nanoha's Body.

Barrel shot and force burst...it is my explanation, but i always thought those wre an incomplete version fo divine buster (Barrel shot to calibrate, force burst looked uncontrolled and wild).

While i don't have the quote right now, i am pretty sure they atalked about magical nergy in body, not linker core stressing.
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Old 2008-07-30, 20:14   Link #1299
Comartemis
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Mmms...either it stresses the body, or the linker core stressing stresses the body. Either case, using too much magic stresses the body (Nanoha bleeding, othercharacter puffing). Oh ,and Quattro didn't talk about linker core. She talked about the body. Like ,too much magic in Nanoha's Body.

Barrel shot and force burst...it is my explanation, but i always thought those wre an incomplete version fo divine buster (Barrel shot to calibrate, force burst looked uncontrolled and wild).

While i don't have the quote right now, i am pretty sure they atalked about magical nergy in body, not linker core stressing.
Firstly, the linker core is a magical organ in the body that functions much like a muscle, so I'm inclined to think that "magic in the body" and linker core references are interchangeable. If someone could get quotes on this so we can figure it out for certain, I'd appreciate it.

As for Barrel Shot and Force Burst, I'd like to direct you to Nanoha's wikipedia page, Ark. Both of those are separate support spells for Excelion Buster with distinct uses, not "incomplete versions" of Divine Buster.
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Old 2008-07-30, 20:17   Link #1300
Arkeus
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Wikipedia is made by Fan O.o

Quote please. We have never Seen a divine Buster for Excellion, and it seemed to me force burst was out of control.

An organ? is that why it can be stolen and looks like a glowing spark?...
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