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Old 2008-08-01, 19:05   Link #81
Freya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incube View Post
Ichigo wasnt fighting Soifon seriously... if he fought any of the captains the same way as in the arrancar arc (ex. grimjaw) he definitly wins. As we have seen so far, ichigo's spirit is way beyond some restrain kido techniques and we also know that Ichigo is a speed type in his bankai form so i dont think kido will affect him that much.

I would like to know who is Ichigo's father and back to the question on my previous post.... how come he is back in his human form?
Ichigo's father??? It's already been given to us. Belive his name is Isshin or something?

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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post

Just killing doesn't always work. If he'd killed Amagai that would have been it for Ichigo and Rukia at SS and they would become permanent fugatives.
If that happened I can see Byakuya saying "....fu*k"
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Old 2008-08-01, 21:18   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Melajo View Post
I registered just to point this out.



What's wrong with this picture? 'scuse the quality.
theirs nothing wrong with it, thats his little tuning fork thing and not another sword, i cant wait to see what he does with his released sword and tuning fork together!
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Old 2008-08-01, 21:29   Link #83
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He has released the fork before... Its his lightsaber.
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Old 2008-08-01, 21:36   Link #84
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Unless he has three swords that is an error. He's holding his released sword in that shot. Aside from the tuning fork thing what the other sword doing there?
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Old 2008-08-01, 23:26   Link #85
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Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger View Post
So you're telling me a man with enough energy to shunpo away had no chance of killing a man who lost about 2 litres of bklood and unable to move?! He was fighting for the laws of SS. He did NOT go easy on Ichigo, BUT last time I tuned into Aizen-sensei lesson 1, it stated that shinigami have 4 different atacks. Just because his sword was shattered doesn't mean that he couldn't fight anymore[aka kidou]. He lost his pride and desire to fight to uphold SS' laws at that point in time, therefore losing his will to fight.

BTW if you're a strictly-anime viewer I will have to stop arguing
I'm pretty much a anime-only viewer myself, but glance every now and then at the manga, but even I know better...

@ArtCP
if Byakuya didn't have his little epiphany, he would of killed Ichigo w/ a Kidou spell, that isn't a 'what if' that's what would of happened. I've also already said it in a previous post, Ichigo could of killed Byakuya a long time ago when he had his sword up to his neck.

really hate repeating stuff...
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Old 2008-08-02, 00:27   Link #86
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Originally Posted by DjTrizz View Post
I'm pretty much a anime-only viewer myself, but glance every now and then at the manga, but even I know better...

@ArtCP
if Byakuya didn't have his little epiphany, he would of killed Ichigo w/ a Kidou spell, that isn't a 'what if' that's what would of happened. I've also already said it in a previous post, Ichigo could of killed Byakuya a long time ago when he had his sword up to his neck.

really hate repeating stuff...
As Byakuya stated in his fight versus Renji, when your soul slayer forcibly disappears means you are very close to death, in the state he were in i find it hard to believe he could turn the tables with a kidospell.

The thing is, Byakuya with his enormous pride would never ever give a win to someone when it was possible he could win.

This is my opinion of the situation, I don't think he could overturn the fight with a kido spell in that situation, you think he could. Let's just leave it at that.
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Old 2008-08-02, 00:38   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtCp View Post
The difference from our arguments is that im using facts, you are using speculation.

And if we are talking about "what if's", what if Ichigo cut Byakuyas throat when he just got Bankai? Talking about what if's is pointless, there is only one winner and the one who won was Ichigo, at least according to Byakuya and there is no way in hell someone with his personality would go easy on someone or test his resolve.
He wouldnt go easy in normal situations, dont think he went easy at all here either, but to my eyes it was obvious he was testing his resolve and when Ichigo clearly showed that he wanted to rescue Rukia no matter what and with getting his sword shattered he decided to give the victory to Ichigo.

You cant seriously say though that Byakuya used every capability he posess since hes a master of Kido.

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Originally Posted by incube View Post
Ichigo wasnt fighting Soifon seriously... if he fought any of the captains the same way as in the arrancar arc (ex. grimjaw) he definitly wins. As we have seen so far, ichigo's spirit is way beyond some restrain kido techniques and we also know that Ichigo is a speed type in his bankai form so i dont think kido will affect him that much.

I would like to know who is Ichigo's father and back to the question on my previous post.... how come he is back in his human form?
We havent even seen all the captains fighting so how can you claim anything like that ?

Kido wont work on Ichigo, you know there are some very skilled people and very very powerful spells out there ye ?

how does Ichigos speed make him "immume" to kido?

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Originally Posted by ArtCp View Post
As Byakuya stated in his fight versus Renji, when your soul slayer forcibly disappears means you are very close to death, in the state he were in i find it hard to believe he could turn the tables with a kidospell.

The thing is, Byakuya with his enormous pride would never ever give a win to someone when it was possible he could win.

This is my opinion of the situation, I don't think he could overturn the fight with a kido spell in that situation, you think he could. Let's just leave it at that.
As i said earlier, he wanted to settle this with his sword only thats why he didnt use any Kido. Byakuya didnt fight for himself in this fight, it was to decide abour Rukias fate and it was clear to me atleast that he really didnt want her to die but couldnt find anyway to stop the thing and break the promises he had made with himself.

Kidou at that moment when his sword shattered and all probably wouldnt have been much good since he was prety drained, but using it from the start would have made big difference.
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Old 2008-08-02, 01:08   Link #88
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Byakuya without his zanpaktoh has no chance of beating Ichigo. But no chance of winning does not = losing.

With his shunpo techniques and his kido he could run around like a little bitch and wait for Ichigo's hollow form to time out. At that point Ichigo wouldn't have enough offense to win, nor does Byakuya have any offense to speak of, so its a zero sum game.

Anyway, this comes down to what Ukitake said:

There are fights for your pride, and there are fights for your life.

Ichigo has won fights so far against Shinigami captains because they were fights for his life--i.e., his life was threatened if he didn't win. This wasn't the case for either Kenpachi or Byakuya.

If Byakuya was fighting for his life (and didn't give up versus Ichigo), then he'd do hit and run with kido and shunpo (thats what he's built for)...then it becomes a fight of attrition, who wins between him and Ichigo in a theoretical fight? Anyone's guess.
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Old 2008-08-02, 01:13   Link #89
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IMHO in the whole fight, he was making a compromise himself. He didn't want to just sit back and do nothing after all -- he was the head of a noble family, he had to lead by example. But he loved his sister as well. Thus when he 'lost', he didn't continue it, because he had in a way settled his own feelings -- at least he tried to protect the laws of SS, even if he failed. Maybe he could have won if he had continued, but why would he try so hard? You need to remember that rukia is his sister after all.
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Old 2008-08-02, 01:53   Link #90
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Originally Posted by Scep View Post
IMHO in the whole fight, he was making a compromise himself. He didn't want to just sit back and do nothing after all -- he was the head of a noble family, he had to lead by example. But he loved his sister as well. Thus when he 'lost', he didn't continue it, because he had in a way settled his own feelings -- at least he tried to protect the laws of SS, even if he failed. Maybe he could have won if he had continued, but why would he try so hard? You need to remember that rukia is his sister after all.
Exactly, thats the way I see it aswell, he wanted a way out of having his sister executed and Ichigo was that way out
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Old 2008-08-02, 03:54   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrallionheart View Post
Byakuya without his zanpaktoh has no chance of beating Ichigo. But no chance of winning does not = losing.

With his shunpo techniques and his kido he could run around like a little bitch and wait for Ichigo's hollow form to time out. At that point Ichigo wouldn't have enough offense to win, nor does Byakuya have any offense to speak of, so its a zero sum game.

Anyway, this comes down to what Ukitake said:

There are fights for your pride, and there are fights for your life.

Ichigo has won fights so far against Shinigami captains because they were fights for his life--i.e., his life was threatened if he didn't win. This wasn't the case for either Kenpachi or Byakuya.

If Byakuya was fighting for his life (and didn't give up versus Ichigo), then he'd do hit and run with kido and shunpo (thats what he's built for)...then it becomes a fight of attrition, who wins between him and Ichigo in a theoretical fight? Anyone's guess.
You do know that unless its a very powerful Kidou, Ichigo with hollow mask can break out of it easily?
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Old 2008-08-02, 06:34   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Freya View Post
You do know that unless its a very powerful Kidou, Ichigo with hollow mask can break out of it easily?
And you know the extent of Byakuyas kido knowledge ?

Besides, how can we even be sure Ichigo would let the hollowside fight for him aswell, wasnt very keen on letting it continue when he fought him in SS.

Bankai Ichigo would be in trouble if kidou came into play
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Old 2008-08-02, 08:39   Link #93
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From all the kido spells we've seen so far, there arent many that cant affect Ichigo. Why? Because casting an offensive kido spell would need time and Ichigo is pretty quick in his bankai form and because of Ichigo's huge spirit energy, a binding spell or restrinctive spell would be difficult to stop him too.

And as far as i remember we've seen all the captains fighting already... not vs Ichigo but we've seen their powers.
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Old 2008-08-02, 10:46   Link #94
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They could just use kidou without the incantation, cos if he does that it will be alot faster also this is captain level kidou, only Hichigo would be able to beat it
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Old 2008-08-02, 13:03   Link #95
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Kidou seems highly dependent on the caster's power level. Byakuya makes a low level spell like #4 white lighting *extremely* powerful. Also there seems to be an indication that hierro (arrancar steel skin) has very little effect on stopping kidou.

And also you have to consider kidou is not like zanjutsu. There is no physical motion like a sword swing that you can telegraph. It's an instantaneous affect after a high level caster points in a general direction and then skips the incantation. Kind of like the difference between dodging a punch and dodging a BB gun.

Now this isn't much of a manga spoiler, because its not saying much, but I'll throw in this tidbit: Byakuya is a VERY high level caster.
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Old 2008-08-02, 15:28   Link #96
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"what if" ichigo slit bya's throat
"what if" byaku aimed his lightning shot at ichigo's heart or brain, not shoulder
"what if ichigo let Hichigo finish off byaku
"what if" byaku shunpo'd back when iichigo fell and kidou his head (orihime's head too since they bumped into each other)
"what if" we wrote the manga
opps, none of these exist =(
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Old 2008-08-02, 15:32   Link #97
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Yup, that's why i stopped arguing, cuz if they saw the manga(too bad you guys true to the anime have to wait at least 9 months to get to the part i'm talking about) they would see stuff that would sway their opinions like a wind vane in a storm.
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Old 2008-08-02, 15:33   Link #98
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Originally Posted by Lunarskylar View Post
"what if" ichigo slit bya's throat
"what if" byaku aimed his lightning shot at ichigo's heart or brain, not shoulder
"what if ichigo let Hichigo finish off byaku
"what if" byaku shunpo'd back when iichigo fell and kidou his head (orihime's head too since they bumped into each other)
"what if" we wrote the manga
opps, none of these exist =(
We are not saying what if, we are just saying Byakuya didn't use everything in his arsenal whilst Ichigo did also he did not go all out because he is adept at Kidou but he only used a level 4 hado technique. He had the ability to do more but he didn't.
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Old 2008-08-02, 15:38   Link #99
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And as far as i remember we've seen all the captains fighting already... not vs Ichigo but we've seen their powers.
We have? What ep is Shunsuui's and Ukitake's and Unohana and Amagai and Soifon and Yamamoto's bankai's? Just to name a few lol...we have hardly scartched the surface of powers in SS.
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Old 2008-08-02, 16:51   Link #100
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A good episode but can people please stop making baseless arguements on how Ichigo would destroy all captains at once.

We have no way to gauge the apparent 4 strongest captains Yama, Unohana, Ukitake and Shunsui so we can't tell how good they are or what they can do.

Also if Ichigo is fast and somehow he managed to take everybody out (which I doubt) Mayuri could call out his bankai use it's poison and then when he gets hurt turn into liquid and scurry away leaving Ichigo to die.
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