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Old 2008-07-26, 10:35   Link #2081
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
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Pretty much, yes.
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Old 2008-07-26, 12:05   Link #2082
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Yeah but it would be nice to see servants with Ex on one of his/her abilities.
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Old 2008-07-26, 12:17   Link #2083
Village Idiot
Fate/ Stay Night
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Caster have an EX-Rank skill, Golden Fleece.

Gilgamesh's Noble Phantasm ability ranking is EX.
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Old 2008-07-26, 23:22   Link #2084
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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What is Golden Fleece?

Also I want to see what Clairvoyance at EX rank can actually do.
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Old 2008-07-27, 02:37   Link #2085
rastilin
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One of Caster's Abilities is that she owns the Golden Fleece, an artifact that could in theory be used to summon dragons. However she doesn't know how to use it so it's more of a curiosity.
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Old 2008-08-01, 09:08   Link #2086
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
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Who is this Grandmaster or Archmagus Schweinorg? The name is used when Tosaka Tokiomi summon Gilgamesh and also when Rin summon Archer in manga.
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Old 2008-08-01, 11:20   Link #2087
Kyomi
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I should really think about updating my profile..
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Sorry to come in like that in the middle of this convo but I've been having a quick question; If one is looking to buy the game is there any preferred version to chose? I noticed both CD/DVD version seems to hang around the same price and I couldn't find any info on added or extra material.
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Old 2008-08-01, 13:14   Link #2088
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
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I just watch a video when archer decided to betray caster. Looks like Iamandragon is right and wrong the same time. Archer can trace noble phantasm without holding and can shoot them them after he says trace on. I thought he can only do this in his Unlimited Blade Works where everything goes to his rule.
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Old 2008-08-01, 13:17   Link #2089
OceanBlue
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Unlimited Blade Works where everything goes to his rule.
1. Yes, Archer can shoot Noble Phantasms out of UBW.
2. I'm just making sure you don't have this misunderstanding, but he doesn't control the rules in Unlimited Blade Works. It manifests itself [And therefore, its rules.] based on the person. You probably know, but just phrased it incorrectly.
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Old 2008-08-01, 15:30   Link #2090
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
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Quote:
1. Yes, Archer can shoot Noble Phantasms out of UBW.
I think you just repeating what I said....or are you?
Anyway my point is I ask Iamandragon whether he can fire his swords like Gilgamesh does?
She said no he can only do it when he activated his Unlimited Blade Works. So I kinda like okay....until I see the video.Really the phrase "You can only believe your eyes and your ears" is applied here.
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Old 2008-08-01, 19:07   Link #2091
Village Idiot
Fate/ Stay Night
 
 
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Yes, Archer can fire swords without deploying UBW.

Pretty much does the same thing as Gilgamesh, cept he takes them out of UBW instead of GoB.

The difference between Archer and Shirou, is that Shirou actually traces each indivdual sword, following all the steps in tracing magic for each individual blade.

He learns later on that his magic circuits are not ment for projection, but rather for UBW, and he could just remove the swords from UBW into the outside world. (like Archer).

The main advantage of UBW is that Archer/Shirou doesn't need to take the time to remove them from UBW --> outside world, as all of them already exist in UBW.
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Old 2008-08-01, 19:58   Link #2092
rastilin
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However; when Shirou is countering Archer's sword spam using the UBW, the swords appear out of thin air. It is mentioned that he was using Archer's UBW to do this. I was thinking it's probably not so much pulled from as using it to manufacture them in place.
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Old 2008-08-02, 00:59   Link #2093
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
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Back to my first question.Who is this Grandmaster or Archmagus Schweinorg? The name is used when Tosaka Tokiomi summon Gilgamesh and also when Rin summon Archer in manga.
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Old 2008-08-02, 02:46   Link #2094
rastilin
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He's a really old sorcerer. He's also a vampire. Note that he's a Sorcerer, not a magus. The difference is that he can cast "True Miracles" as well as normal magic. For example "Gand" and "Reinforcement" is a magic while "Unlimited Blade Works" and Caster's "Matter Control" are almost but not quite "True Miracles" although how not is never clearly defined.

At this point there are only 5 "living" sorcerers, Ayoko from Tsukihime is the only other known one.

Also, Sorcerer's specialize extensively. The Archmage can use "Probability Control" while Ayoko can use "Destruction". If Archer's a Sorcerer and he appears to fit the definition, he would probably get something like "Creation".
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Old 2008-08-03, 07:40   Link #2095
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
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Firstly it's Aoko and what's the difference between magician and sorcerers and what is miracles
that is said can only be done by Sorcerers? Also why does Archer fit the definition Sorcerer?

Ayoko is said to be able to destroy entire city...but how??
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Old 2008-08-03, 09:30   Link #2096
iamandragon
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If you read Kara no Kyoukai(or pay future attention to the upcoming movie series), you'll soon learn about the difference of magic and sorcery.

Simply put, magic is a technique used by magus to do things which can be achieved with money, man-power, time and preparation in an alternative method. For example, 'Gand' is a magic that makes the victim weak, which any normal person can do the same if equipped with a tranquilizer/poison bullet loaded gun. Gand only makes it more mobile, but the cost and preparation might just be as/more expensive than buying the gun.

Same for Unlimited Blade Works--any person can hire a whole load of workers and machines to construct a new world of blades. Though it is so hard that it is infinitely close to sorcery, but as long as one's magic is possible to be done by mere humans with an unlimited man-power, money and resource, it's still magic.

Sorcery, or 'miracle', on the other hand, cannot be done no matter how much you pay for it. Like traveling through time. Of course, it might be possible to be able to do so in the future. But for now, as long as it is defined as 'impossible' by common sense, it is True Magic. And the reason why 'sorcery' in the past is now viewed as 'magic' in the present(of F/SN story time). In the past, being able to hail fire at targets thousands of miles away is seen as 'impossible' while nowadays it can be done by a simple click-on-the-switch(maybe not...) of a cruise missile launcher...


Aoko is a magician seen in the beginning of Tsukihime, and during the storyline of Melty Blood. She by some chance(not mentioned how) learned the true magic 'destroy' which would allow her to destroy anything. However such skill requires quite some mana so she can't perform it since her magic circuits are few. But regardless, if given enough mana, Aoko can literally destroy anything--even the Sun which is 'impossible' for us humans for now.
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Old 2008-08-03, 14:18   Link #2097
rastilin
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Quote:
Same for Unlimited Blade Works--any person can hire a whole load of workers and machines to construct a new world of blades. Though it is so hard that it is infinitely close to sorcery, but as long as one's magic is possible to be done by mere humans with an unlimited man-power, money and resource, it's still magic.
No, I doubt they can. Although given infinite resources it would eventually be possible to smash the sun. UBW is less plausable than destroying the sun. Which is why I don't get the distinction.
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Old 2008-08-03, 14:30   Link #2098
Deadwings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
No, I doubt they can. Although given infinite resources it would eventually be possible to smash the sun. UBW is less plausable than destroying the sun. Which is why I don't get the distinction.
Well... think of UBW like a hologram generated by the most powerful and advanced projector, with a few hundreds of people hiding/camouflaged, equipped with many dozens of blades and a new kind of projectile lancer, who are all ready to fire their blades at the target whenever you give the signal. Also, they do not hesitate to aproach to the middle of the battle so that you can get and use their blades. Maybe a bit precarious, but I think it can work
However, I cant' really think of a way of blowing up the sun, no matter how much resources we have.
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Old 2008-08-03, 14:52   Link #2099
rastilin
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UBW can also be used to dodge any attack as well as penetrate any barrier no matter how it works or how powerful it is. Since it side-steps reality. No amount of current tech would work. You could destroy the sun with enough anti-matter, which we can make today. You'd need a ball roughly the size of Jupiter, but it IS physically possible. For reference purposes, it takes us something like a century to make one gram. But....
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Old 2008-08-04, 09:25   Link #2100
Wernicke
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i have a little question @ Blade Lord or somebody other that can answer it: Were did you find the hole manga to read? I doesn´t find it at all. That would be a great help for me. And sorry for my bad english, but i´m not very good in talking in other languages
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