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Old 2008-08-04, 01:47   Link #1261
PhoenixG
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Well half of the tracks were directed toward the listener.
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Old 2008-08-04, 03:14   Link #1262
Kha
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Ah I see...

So... The one PG posted was not the SSM?
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Old 2008-08-04, 03:58   Link #1263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Ah I see...

So... The one PG posted was not the SSM?
It is. It's just that it's canon just as much as it's not.

SSM works by half-addressing the questions (( of viewers )) and told/explained through the canon characters by half-breaking 4th walls to give a look into the characters and their situations as the moment goes. And despite Hayate, Nanoha, Fate, Vivio supposedly being in the same place doing this talk and questionnaires, it's also done so that conversations can be seemingly ignored by others there, like Vivio not saying anything in regards to Hayate and Nanoha's opinion of her and Fate.

M2 was also done similar this way, but I don't recall it being that wall-breaking.
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Old 2008-08-04, 05:17   Link #1264
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
Yeah, Nanoha agreed with Hayate, but I had the impression that she didn't know what to say and that she agreed with her friend when she came with that just to get out of the problem I think we'll never know when the characters are being honest with each others in this kind of controversial issues, that's why this will always be an open scenario... which is not a bad thing either
Even if Nanoha wasn't sure, and agreed with Hayate's observation, she did so because she thought it was the most accurate one. Remember, Nanoha hates to lie.

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Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
Oh, you're right, thanks for the correction, I really appreciate when people help me to improve my English ^^
Anytime.

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Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
About the drama, I can see too much of it Nanoha, almost nothing at all. Most of the drama was induced by the community ^^U
Well, there was Fate-Precia, Wolkenritter-Hayate, Teana, Subaru-Ginga, Nanoha-Vivio... there's quite a lot of drama in Nanoha, just not a lot of romantic drama, but that's mostly becuse Nanoha lacks enough romance to dramatize.

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Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
Also, a show only about drama isn't necessarily boring, just look at anything from Key, Air-Tv is one of my favorites series of all the times, and it's only drama. A masterpiece, if you ask me. The other series by Key and KyoAni are mostly have drama as their predominating genre too, but also include romance and light comedy. All of them are pretty good, I highly recommend them.
It's only my opinion anyway. I can't stand too much drama, but mixing it up with other ellements makes it better for me. Kinda like how chicken on its own is bland, but throwing a few other spices with it makes it delicious. I really enjoyed Clannad's balance of comedy and drama, it made it just right for me.
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Old 2008-08-04, 05:34   Link #1265
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Thanks for the clarification guys, i wish i could understand japananese, a whole SS dedicated to the numbers and the Nakajima sisters and i will not be able to access the infos
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Old 2008-08-04, 05:39   Link #1266
Keroko
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Even worse, its going to have actual plot, enemies, fights and whatnot.

Translating the thing would be a pain, but I hope someone will provide a detailed summary.
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Old 2008-08-04, 06:09   Link #1267
Thisguy
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Yeah, maybe we shouldn't take SSMs too seriously
For one thing though, in SSM2 they talk as if time flows at different speed ("It's been 10 years for us, well, maybe not that long for you though."), yet Arisa & Suzuka still are same age with Aces etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Not quite. Hayate says he's been to the 108th a lot recently, to work with Ginga. Zafira seems to have developed an interest in investigative work, Ginga is acting like his instructor there. And, in wolf form, he's not bound by limiters.
Corrections;
Fate says Zafira is teaching about investigation to Ginga... as much as you feel it's weird, I do as well
And that limiter talk is meant that as long as he keeps his wolf form, he doesn't generate "unit cost" so he can stay there without worrying about 108th unit's cost limit.

EDIT:
Just listened SSM3 again, it was Fate that mentioned about "Zafira being Ginga's teacher of investigation" \(^o^)/
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Old 2008-08-04, 06:38   Link #1268
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that's the opposite of what the chinese translators got, are you sure?
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Old 2008-08-04, 06:46   Link #1269
Kha
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Latin and Japanese tenses always get me running into walls. I was there thinking if Zafira or Ginga was in the genitive...

Maybe our approach to the SSM should be like the novel; take some parts that work, and alter those that don't slightly? Only problem is, we're gonna need them fully translated before making any decision...
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Old 2008-08-04, 07:01   Link #1270
Thisguy
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Pretty sure, for not only I heard it that way, I haven't seen anyone on 2ch heard it the way "Ginga teaches Zafira", whereas more than a few of "Zafira teaches Ginga, that's weird " responses were there.

Well, Fate said;
Quote:
「ギンガ、今はザフィーラが捜査の師匠だって。」
"Ginga, ima ha Zafira ga sousa no shishou datte."
That line is spoken in inversion manner, and verb was omitted, so formally it should be something like this;
Quote:
「今はザフィーラが捜査の師匠だってギンガは言ってた」
"Ima ha Zafira ga sousa no shishou datte Ginga ha itteta."
Literally replacing these words to English equivalents, it would be something like this
Quote:
"Now Zafira is teacher of investigation Ginga said"
Hmm... there you go, maybe not, but I can't think of better explaination as of now.

EDIT:
Tried a bit more harder... orz

Last edited by Thisguy; 2008-08-04 at 07:24.
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Old 2008-08-04, 07:34   Link #1271
Jimmy C
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Well, maybe they'll sort it out soon.
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Old 2008-08-04, 12:16   Link #1272
BPHaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Even if Nanoha wasn't sure, and agreed with Hayate's observation, she did so because she thought it was the most accurate one. Remember, Nanoha hates to lie.
In general therms, I think that we'll never know if a response to this kind of question will be accurate or not, even if the asked person doesn't want to lie, because it's only a matter of opinion, and you can't lie in your opinion. That's why both of us can discuss an issue while neither of us is lying.

About the this specific case, the question was kind of forced and it isn't specifically about the asked person, but about the people surrounding her, so if her opinion matches or not the objective reality is just a matter of chance, of her current mood, of her knowledge about the issue and the involved persons, and about what she wants to say.

Cuídate y sigue sonriendo
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Old 2008-08-04, 12:22   Link #1273
Nagumo
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Hm, I've been wondering what the complete list of Nanoha Sound Stages there are.

I know there are
Nanoha SS01, SS02, SS03
Nanoha A's SS01, SS02, SS03
Nanoha StrikerS SS01, SS02, SS03, SS04, M3 and Megami Sound Stage...

So why are people saying there's a M2?
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Old 2008-08-04, 12:44   Link #1274
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagumo View Post
Hm, I've been wondering what the complete list of Nanoha Sound Stages there are.

I know there are
Nanoha SS01, SS02, SS03
Nanoha A's SS01, SS02, SS03
Nanoha StrikerS SS01, SS02, SS03, SS04, M3 and Megami Sound Stage...

So why are people saying there's a M2?
The Megami Sound Stage and M3 are the same, though I don't know of another StrikerS Megami Sound Stage. Perhaps M3 is refering to the third season?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
In general therms, I think that we'll never know if a response to this kind of question will be accurate or not, even if the asked person doesn't want to lie, because it's only a matter of opinion, and you can't lie in your opinion. That's why both of us can discuss an issue while neither of us is lying.
This is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
About the this specific case, the question was kind of forced and it isn't specifically about the asked person, but about the people surrounding her, so if her opinion matches or not the objective reality is just a matter of chance, of her current mood, of her knowledge about the issue and the involved persons, and about what she wants to say.
True to an extent, there will always be a manner of subjectivity involved if people ask about opinions, especially when you ask others (like you said, the best answer would have been from Vivio) however, you have to remember that Nanoha is Vivio's mother, even if her opinion is somewhat different the difference between 'mother' and 'sister' is quite obvious, if Hayate was wrong and Vivio still sees Fate the same way as she did when she was first introduced, Nanoha would have said so. I'll admit though I probably am a bit deffensive on this point , mostly because it blatantly confirms what I thought would happen to Vivio all along.

I'm curious how Vivio views the rest of the Wolkenritter (especially Vita) was there anything about that in the Sound Stage?
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Last edited by Keroko; 2008-08-04 at 13:10.
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Old 2008-08-04, 12:51   Link #1275
JINNSK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagumo View Post
Hm, I've been wondering what the complete list of Nanoha Sound Stages there are.

I know there are
Nanoha SS01, SS02, SS03
Nanoha A's SS01, SS02, SS03
Nanoha StrikerS SS01, SS02, SS03, SS04, M3 and Megami Sound Stage...

So why are people saying there's a M2?
SSM1 is an appendix of Megami Vol.68(Jan 2006 edition)
SSM2 is an appendix of Megami Vol.84(May 2007 edition)
SSM3 is an appendix of Megami Vol.100(Sep 2008 edition)
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Old 2008-08-04, 15:34   Link #1276
ramunes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JINNSK View Post
SSM1 is an appendix of Megami Vol.68(Jan 2006 edition)
SSM2 is an appendix of Megami Vol.84(May 2007 edition)
SSM3 is an appendix of Megami Vol.100(Sep 2008 edition)
I thought Megami Vol.84 had the Strikers Sound Stage M-The Strikers

Megami Vol.100 does have the M3 Sound Stage

I still have no idea which one has the M2 Sound Stage. Megami Vol.68 has the Christmas Special thing.
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Old 2008-08-04, 16:06   Link #1277
BPHaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
True to an extent, there will always be a manner of subjectivity involved if people ask about opinions, especially when you ask others (like you said, the best answer would have been from Vivio) however, you have to remember that Nanoha is Vivio's mother, even if her opinion is somewhat different the difference between 'mother' and 'sister' is quite obvious, if Hayate was wrong and Vivio still sees Fate the same way as she did when she was first introduced, Nanoha would have said so.
I think we should also consider that in the series we haven't seen Nanoha talking about the "Vivio has two mamas" thing outside of her new family. The rest just assumed that fact for their daily behavior, hearing how Vivio addressed Fate and Nanoha was a big hint for them ^^U. So we nothing can't guarantee about how Nanoha feels about their relationship and how she should react to that kind of question, specially if it's made by one of her closest friend, being honest and direct is only one curse of action, but isn't the only one, and after responding the question almost without thinking about such a deep an important issue about her daughter, just when Hayate proposed a response, it was for me like screaming "An escape! Let's take it!!!1!!"

In the other hand, in the extreme case that Nanoha were to see, or better if directly Vivio were to see her relationship with Fate really as sisters, then we still have the problem of what means sisters for all of them. We have our Nanoha born in Japan with a real sister, living now in Mid-Childa, with a culture potentially conceiving different concept of community and family, and we have our Vivio with a very twisted situation, but not more twisted than Fate's. Depending on their treat, the time they spent together, and other factors an older sister or brother in many or cultures can play a role even more important than the parents, probably some of you are familiar with this too, so we have a problem here, and we can even consider something like "we're both parents, but she's more close to our daughter, she's like her sister, too"....

...so as you can see this is far away to be something conclusive, personally I don't mind about what is canon and about what isn't, since the fandom will keep going with its own force even if they kill Nanoha and Fate, because that's the greatest about this series, the fans, it isn’t the show by itself. But I believe too that there isn't any more a thing such as "canon" in this series, when the scenario is this open there are only things that are accepted by the community due to convention or for self interest of the fandom, that way the producers of the franchise can listen to their public and give them what they really want, I think this is that kind of anime. You know that I don't like this series too much, but 7 Arcs is doing a good job with the fans, I can't wait to see what they will do with the movie and the next season ^^

Cuídense y sigan sonriendo
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Old 2008-08-04, 16:29   Link #1278
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisguy View Post
Corrections;
Fate says Zafira is teaching about investigation to Ginga... as much as you feel it's weird, I do as well
"So, to track down the criminal, put your nose close to the ground like so, and take several small snifffs"?



About Vivio seeing Fate less like a mother... Wouldn't it be because Fate isn't around as much any more? She plays with Vivio when she's home, but she doesn't have the time to really "raise" her, does she? (I'm reminded of that comic where Vivio ended up concluding that Fate was her "papa"...)
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Old 2008-08-04, 16:40   Link #1279
Nagumo
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Originally Posted by ramunes View Post
I thought Megami Vol.84 had the Strikers Sound Stage M-The Strikers

Megami Vol.100 does have the M3 Sound Stage

I still have no idea which one has the M2 Sound Stage. Megami Vol.68 has the Christmas Special thing.
.... which means I'm missing the Megami Vol 68 Christmas special thingy.

Anyways according to this:

http://nanoha.julynet.jp/?DVD%2CCD#d1c8742e

is what CDs have come out for sound stages and albums and stuff.

Yeah Japanese Nanoha wiki!
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Old 2008-08-04, 16:44   Link #1280
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I'm not quit cut off the internet yet, thankfully. Tomorrow I shall have to revert to the dark ages of dialup to get my regular fix. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
I think we should also consider that in the series we haven't seen Nanoha talking about the "Vivio has two mamas" thing outside of her new family. The rest just assumed that fact for their daily behaviour, hearing how Vivio addressed Fate and Nanoha was a big hint for them ^^U. So we nothing can't guarantee about how Nanoha feels about their relationship and how she should react to that kind of question, specially if it's made by one of her closest friend, being honest and direct is only one curse of action, but isn't the only one, and after responding the question almost without thinking about such a deep an important issue about her daughter, just when Hayate proposed a response, it was for me like screaming "An escape! Let's take it!!!1!!"
It could be considered an escape I suppose. I haven't heard it first hand so I can't judge how abrupt it is. Consider how carefully one's own feelings are treated by the Japanese, though, and indeed are often hidden in a broad effort to conform. Indeed, it is topic of frequent cultural commentary that it is in the Japanese nature to make personal sacrifice for the sake of the group; if they know the answer that people want to hear, they'll give that answer despite themselves. It's hard to judge the relevance, as measurements of Nanoha's relationships are what is under discussion here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
In the other hand, in the extreme case that Nanoha were to see, or better if directly Vivio were to see her relationship with Fate really as sisters, then we still have the problem of what means sisters for all of them. We have our Nanoha born in Japan with a real sister, living now in Mid-Childa, with a culture potentially conceiving different concept of community and family, and we have our Vivio with a very twisted situation, but not more twisted than Fate's. Depending on their treat, the time they spent together, and other factors an older sister or brother in many or cultures can play a role even more important than the parents, probably some of you are familiar with this too, so we have a problem here, and we can even consider something like "we're both parents, but she's more close to our daughter, she's like her sister, too"....
This is true. I didn't even consider the potential role of a sibling. I know I'll remain important to my own siblings while my parents will drift away inevitably. This applies particularly to abnormal upbringings, don't you think? And who has had a more abnormal upbringing than Vivio?

I'm not sure of the Japanese familial culture when it comes to siblings, though, but they do have particularly strong family bonds; they'd have to to survive such a hectic lifestyle. Another speaking from a purely hypothetical angle, wouldn't a sibling be of more importance that a father, when the father works such extremely long hours, every weekday, spends so long commuting, and has barely enough energy to collapse onto a sofa on their day off? Someone has to fill the gap, and one would surely look to an older sibling in this case? I feel deep responsibility for my siblings (I am the oldest) as I think I have greater power to shape them than either of my parents. Out of principle, my brother rejects much of what our parents say, and comes to me for advice. I cite abnormal upbringings again.

The little guy cried when I went off to Tokyo for a couple of weeks, but he has no trouble leaving his father.

Little note: You mean “treatment” not “treat” in this sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
...so as you can see this is far away to be something conclusive, personally I don't mind about what is canon and about what isn't, since the fandom will keep going with its own force even if they kill Nanoha and Fate, because that's the greatest about this series, the fans, it isn’t the show by itself. But I believe too that there isn't any more a thing such as "canon" in this series, when the scenario is this open there are only things that are accepted by the community due to convention or for self interest of the fandom, that way the producers of the franchise can listen to their public and give them what they really want, I think this is that kind of anime. You know that I don't like this series too much, but 7 Arcs is doing a good job with the fans, I can't wait to see what they will do with the movie and the next season ^^
I think Seven Arcs typically play more to the yuri crowd. Yuuno crept over Nanoha as a ferret when she was a child, and saw her undress when she didn't even realise he was, indeed, a boy of similar age underneath. On the other hand, they've dug themselves the "Vivio has a mommy and a mommy", despite how they might be perceived to be scrabbling at the edges now, and we've seen the sleeping together, Fate in underwear. I still don't see that as a normal thing for friends to do (although Fate has that abnormal upbringing, as Vivio does), no matter whether I looked at this from my own cultural perspective, or my knowledge of the Japanese one.

Maybe one day Seven Arcs will let the hammer fall, probably in the finale, where they have nothing to loose. And you mean you aren't keen on StrikerS, right?
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