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Old 2008-08-04, 12:20   Link #41
GyroidFanatic
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I actually ended skimming over that part because it was too confusing. I got the general idea though.
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Old 2008-08-05, 01:00   Link #42
kingsky123
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Words cannot describe how much i appreciate you translators !! (but i shall try)

ORZ! THANK YOU


PS: i read one fanfiction article about rena being the batman... it seems like Rei is pushing it close =/
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Old 2008-08-06, 03:53   Link #43
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I thought that Saikoroshi-hen works really well as an epilogue. Also, it really helps explain the relationship between Rika & Bernkastel. Thanks for translating all of it theacefrehley.

Spoiler for Saikoroshi-hen:


By the way, since people plan to turn this into a patch, I thought it might be helpful to look out for grammar or syntax errors in the translation. I've made a list of the ones I spotted while reading it:
Spoiler:
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Old 2008-08-06, 05:26   Link #44
theacefrehley
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Dude,
Really
I think you guys think too much over things
Hanyuu says in the end she created the dream with all the words and reasons
Why doubt she would be lying?


As for Rika behaving like bernkastel before her arrival,
I think this world doesn't work for comparisons because everything is upside down from the beginning
Maybe the stuff with Akasaka is one of those set facts (like Satoko's parents death), but that became set over the loops, whatever
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Old 2008-08-06, 09:00   Link #45
kingsky123
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i think it was really all planned by hanyuu when rika got into the accident, i think hanyuu felt that rika was too complacent with her life, and that she wasnt behaving normally.

I believe that hanyuu already planned something like that for her BEFORE she got into the accident so that she is able to cope once hanyuu returns to godland.
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Old 2008-08-06, 11:29   Link #46
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Chapter 1 is done... only 4 more chapters to edit.
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Old 2008-08-06, 12:52   Link #47
Eryops
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theacefrehley View Post
Dude,
Really
I think you guys think too much over things
Hanyuu says in the end she created the dream with all the words and reasons
Why doubt she would be lying?
Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by theacefrehley View Post
As for Rika behaving like bernkastel before her arrival,
I think this world doesn't work for comparisons because everything is upside down from the beginning
Maybe the stuff with Akasaka is one of those set facts (like Satoko's parents death), but that became set over the loops, whatever
Rika states that she isn't Rika Furude in Tsumihoboroshi-hen, but that since she had used that name for over a hundred years she might as well be called that. This indicates that the separation of identities between the world-skipping Rika (who in Saikoroshi-hen names herself Bernkastel) and the Rikas that exist in individual worlds before Bernkastel's arrival there has existed from the beginning of Higurashi.
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Old 2008-08-06, 16:51   Link #48
theacefrehley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryops View Post
Spoiler:
Well,
Hanyuu's explanation convinced me well enough, along with the mood of the scene
It was all a dream she created to teach Rika a lesson

Beyond that is supposition


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryops View Post
Rika states that she isn't Rika Furude in Tsumihoboroshi-hen, but that since she had used that name for over a hundred years she might as well be called that. This indicates that the separation of identities between the world-skipping Rika (who in Saikoroshi-hen names herself Bernkastel) and the Rikas that exist in individual worlds before Bernkastel's arrival there has existed from the beginning of Higurashi.

????

I think you're thinking too much

I always thought of Higurashi as a videogame with a 'save mode'/'save points' option. Things of the past keep on preserved to some extent.
Otherwise Rika'd always suffer a huge transformation from being a little girl who knows nothing to the time traveler after a sudden load of memories. If I'm not mistaken, whenever she arrives back in time, she is already 'famous' for her past 'predictions' (I think Himatsubushi shows that, and the last arcs too).

Obviously, saikoroshi doesn't need to fit into this because, after all, I think it was just an 'artificial' dream.
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Last edited by theacefrehley; 2008-08-06 at 17:09.
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Old 2008-08-06, 17:06   Link #49
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I agree with Eryops, I don't think Saikoroshi-hen was just a dream. Hanyuu has a pretty good motive to lie and even Rika/Bernkastel wasn't convinced that Hanyuu was being honest.
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Old 2008-08-06, 19:24   Link #50
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Spoiler:

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Old 2008-08-07, 02:39   Link #51
kingsky123
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?
Spoiler for 3 rikas:
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Old 2008-08-07, 03:07   Link #52
Eryops
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theacefrehley View Post
????

I think you're thinking too much

I always thought of Higurashi as a videogame with a 'save mode'/'save points' option. Things of the past keep on preserved to some extent.
Otherwise Rika'd always suffer a huge transformation from being a little girl who knows nothing to the time traveler after a sudden load of memories. If I'm not mistaken, whenever she arrives back in time, she is already 'famous' for her past 'predictions' (I think Himatsubushi shows that, and the last arcs too).

Obviously, saikoroshi doesn't need to fit into this because, after all, I think it was just an 'artificial' dream.
Rika doesn't seem confused by the fact that she doesn't have the memories of Saikoroshi-hen's Rika when she arrives there, which makes it appear natural for her to not have access to the memories of the local Rika when she enters a new world. That, combined with the fact that she doesn't realize that Akasaka's wife lived in Minagoroshi-hen's world (also, when she arrives in that world she has no idea what the date is, which you;d expect her to know if she had access to the local memories) indicates to me that Dark Rika/Bernkastel's memories and personality replace those of the local Rika.

I agree that the fact that Rika acting as Bernkastel before that point (e.g. warning Akasaka in Minagoroshi-hen) is the biggest problem with this theory, however perhaps this indicates that, just as there are many worlds, there are multiple Rikas moving around and "our" Rika is replacing them rather than the original Rika. Interestingly Rika does seem to transform from a little girl into a hundred-year old witch according to this TIP: "But that child has changed ever since kindergarten."

The problem with Higurashi working as savepoints is that Rika clearly lacks memories from the world she's in from before her arrival. If it worked incrementally, then you'd expect her to know what happened in the world she arrives to. The reason Rika can adapt smoothly in every world other than Saikoroshi-hen despite lacking the local Rika's memories is that most worlds are extremely similar to ones she has already been to (though extremely unusual occurrences such as Akasaka's wife living still throw her off).

I wonder if we could send Ryukishi07 an email and have him give us an unambiguous explanation.
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Old 2008-08-07, 04:10   Link #53
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You should consider the "world traveling" as both a dimension AND time manipulation.
Personally, I used that view to have an idea how it happened:

Basically, I assume each time Frederica goes in a world with Hanyuu, both are actually "creating" that world, but not from scratch: from the "blueprint", the world they are from. However, as entering in that world they are not able to rewind a certain period of time. Also, the "copy" keeps its general settings though X events might give another outcome, "dice roll".
As shown before, Some events are unrelated to Rika/Frederica actions, and in rare "worlds", Keiichi didn't arrive in Hinamizawa, which means that some good time before, his father didn't visit hinamizawa or wasn't attracted by the village. The same goes how Akasaka can be convinced or not in the Himatsubushi period.

The thing is: any past actions done by Frederica becomes rock solid and transmigrated for the next worlds, whatever what Frederica does, since it is "in the past".

Actually, in all past worlds, Frederica actually "overwritten" herself over and over. Well, rather "Rika" first, but a certain number of occurance twisted her "soul" (as the amount of memories and the personality changes are notcieable) and unknown to herself, she became "Frederica", which she finally understood completely in Saikoroshi-hen (though she had already an idea of being "different" in Tsumihoroboshi and Minagoroshi).
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Old 2008-08-07, 05:33   Link #54
theacefrehley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryops View Post
Rika doesn't seem confused by the fact that she doesn't have the memories of Saikoroshi-hen's Rika when she arrives there, which makes it appear natural for her to not have access to the memories of the local Rika when she enters a new world. That, combined with the fact that she doesn't realize that Akasaka's wife lived in Minagoroshi-hen's world (also, when she arrives in that world she has no idea what the date is, which you;d expect her to know if she had access to the local memories) indicates to me that Dark Rika/Bernkastel's memories and personality replace those of the local Rika.

I agree that the fact that Rika acting as Bernkastel before that point (e.g. warning Akasaka in Minagoroshi-hen) is the biggest problem with this theory, however perhaps this indicates that, just as there are many worlds, there are multiple Rikas moving around and "our" Rika is replacing them rather than the original Rika. Interestingly Rika does seem to transform from a little girl into a hundred-year old witch according to this TIP: "But that child has changed ever since kindergarten."

The problem with Higurashi working as savepoints is that Rika clearly lacks memories from the world she's in from before her arrival. If it worked incrementally, then you'd expect her to know what happened in the world she arrives to. The reason Rika can adapt smoothly in every world other than Saikoroshi-hen despite lacking the local Rika's memories is that most worlds are extremely similar to ones she has already been to (though extremely unusual occurrences such as Akasaka's wife living still throw her off).

I wonder if we could send Ryukishi07 an email and have him give us an unambiguous explanation.
My savepoints are from multiples game branchings
It's like she she has too much savegames on her PS2 card
That's why she doesn't know what was happening before added to some random events (ex: Mion's games, Teppei coming back...)
She doesn't know if she's in a watanagashi-hen type world or in a failed-himatsubushi world or in a success-himatsubushi world or in totally failed world (keiichi doesn't move) or... too many options


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The thing is: any past actions done by Frederica becomes rock solid and transmigrated for the next worlds, whatever what Frederica does, since it is "in the past".
Yeah
That stuff of strong will becomes fate.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:24   Link #55
kingsky123
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The stuff of strong will becomes fate, therefore leading himatsubushi hen's warning to become a reality for all worlds that rika is going through, that being said er ... doesnt that mean a 4 year old rika waited on the busstop for nobody without any explanation ??? or wha?? (in rei)

PS: does ryukishi07 speak english?
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Old 2008-08-07, 18:21   Link #56
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Originally Posted by kingsky123 View Post

PS: does ryukishi07 speak english?
Nope, that was disscussed before.
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Old 2008-08-07, 18:25   Link #57
Rias
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The stuff of strong will becomes fate, therefore leading himatsubushi hen's warning to become a reality for all worlds that rika is going through, that being said er ... doesnt that mean a 4 year old rika waited on the busstop for nobody without any explanation ??? or wha?? (in rei)

4 years old? She's at least 7 with the lower grade theory...nothing wrong with Rika-chama taking a rest in the bus station Maybe she gets to meet other people who came to tour the village...
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Old 2008-08-08, 05:36   Link #58
theacefrehley
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Originally Posted by Rias View Post
4 years old? She's at least 7 with the lower grade theory...nothing wrong with Rika-chama taking a rest in the bus station Maybe she gets to meet other people who came to tour the village...
If I'm not mistaken Rika's age is always shown as 1 digit (X), so she's 9 at most (while keiichi an rena are shown as XX). So, at Akasaka's time, she'd be 4, wouldn't she?
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Old 2008-08-08, 05:37   Link #59
kingsky123
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if she was 7 then during the time akasaka came to visit she would be like 1 or 2 years old... that would be impossible. if she was 9 then she is 4 years old at of the time during the bus station.
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Old 2008-08-08, 11:31   Link #60
Rias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theacefrehley View Post
If I'm not mistaken Rika's age is always shown as 1 digit (X), so she's 9 at most (while keiichi an rena are shown as XX). So, at Akasaka's time, she'd be 4, wouldn't she?

My mistake...I kept remembing the lower grade means she was around gr5-6...you are right, she should be around 3-5 for lower grade theory, 7 for higher grade theory.
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