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Old 2003-11-18, 23:04   Link #1
Silent Spring
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Military fanboys

I started this thread because me and some other members would get really off topic discussing military weapons and stuff on some other threads (even in the cutest intro thread.... don't ask me how that happened) Anyways some members (or should I say member) said we should stay on topic and start our own thread (rudely) I'm not going to name names, but let's say his name rhymes with menmaster.

This thread is for all you military fanboys or fangirls (perferably fanboys) jk, like myself, to discuss or throw out your 2 cents on anything military, weapons, technology, wars, military history,etc For those of you who have watched Full Metal Panic, remember that guy who was sorta Sagara's friend and he knew all the weapons and clasifications of the arm slave and stuff, well that pretty much describes this thread.

So I'm going to start off this thread with a questions, which battle tank do you think is the best overall in both efficent, cost effective, mobility, armor, and firepower.

For me I want to say the United State's M1 Abram but it's turbine engine uses too much fuel, even though it can go fast, is it's very expensive to maintian. So I guess I would have to go with the Chinese Generation 3 (Type 98). It has a 125mm cannon (which even out guns the M1), but still only weights a little over 50 tons making it very mobile. It also has a 12.7mm air defense gun, to take out choppers.

Edit: oops, I posted this in the wrong section, can anyone move it to the general chat section.
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Old 2003-11-18, 23:11   Link #2
monir
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Just a heads-up question before the discussion begins...How is this thread going to relate to the General Anime discussion, I mean are these military weapons solely from anime?
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Old 2003-11-19, 01:31   Link #3
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Spring
I started this thread because me and some other members would get really off topic discussing military weapons and stuff on some other threads (even in the cutest intro thread.... don't ask me how that happened) Anyways some members (or should I say member) said we should stay on topic and start our own thread (rudely) I'm not going to name names, but let's say his name rhymes with menmaster.

This thread is for all you military fanboys or fangirls (perferably fanboys) jk, like myself, to discuss or throw out your 2 cents on anything military, weapons, technology, wars, military history,etc For those of you who have watched Full Metal Panic, remember that guy who was sorta Sagara's friend and he knew all the weapons and clasifications of the arm slave and stuff, well that pretty much describes this thread.

So I'm going to start off this thread with a questions, which battle tank do you think is the best overall in both efficent, cost effective, mobility, armor, and firepower.

For me I want to say the United State's M1 Abram but it's turbine engine uses too much fuel, even though it can go fast, is it's very expensive to maintian. So I guess I would have to go with the Chinese Generation 3 (Type 98). It has a 125mm cannon (which even out guns the M1), but still only weights a little over 50 tons making it very mobile. It also has a 12.7mm air defense gun, to take out choppers.

Edit: oops, I posted this in the wrong section, can anyone move it to the general chat section.

well the US military are planning to get rid of tanks, and instead replacing them with light mobile vheicals (AHHH SPELLING!) with high power guns... so i dont know

PAnzers and Tiger tanks are my all time favourite, its outdated of course since its a ww2 model.

DAMN ISRAEL!!! hahaha HOW CAN THEY SELL PATRIOT MISSLES TO CHINA!?!!?! thats right, these ppl didnt know how to use it, so they sold all of it to china, now they have US patriots.... *sigh*. Lets hope they dont do that with the new laser defense system we're working on and planning to give to the israelies.
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Old 2003-11-19, 01:49   Link #4
Kamui4356
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It isn't that they want to get rid of tanks completely, it's just that the current world political situation calls for a lighter, more mobile force. There will be a place for the tank on the battlefield for the foreseeable future. The army is working on a smaller, lighter, cheaper tank to replace the m-1 in most roles, an armored vehicle that would perform many of the roles of a tank, and several tanks with exotic weapons such as directed energy weapons and magnetic rail guns. I wouldn't expect to see either of them on the battlefield anytime soon though.
Lazy weapon designers stop experimenting with tanks and start building giant mechs.
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Old 2003-11-19, 01:58   Link #5
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
It isn't that they want to get rid of tanks completely, it's just that the current world political situation calls for a lighter, more mobile force. There will be a place for the tank on the battlefield for the foreseeable future. The army is working on a smaller, lighter, cheaper tank to replace the m-1 in most roles, an armored vehicle that would perform many of the roles of a tank, and several tanks with exotic weapons such as directed energy weapons and magnetic rail guns. I wouldn't expect to see either of them on the battlefield anytime soon though.
Lazy weapon designers stop experimenting with tanks and start building giant mechs.
actually i have a military future plan books with me. and theyre eventually completely getting rid of them. Same with battleships, and we're using carriers.
the best test equipment was the NASA ROD DROP. ITs a space plane tat orbits the earth, than when it finds its target drops a uranium rod, blows the hell out of underground bases.
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Old 2003-11-19, 03:22   Link #6
Silent Spring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356
It isn't that they want to get rid of tanks completely, it's just that the current world political situation calls for a lighter, more mobile force. There will be a place for the tank on the battlefield for the foreseeable future. The army is working on a smaller, lighter, cheaper tank to replace the m-1 in most roles, an armored vehicle that would perform many of the roles of a tank, and several tanks with exotic weapons such as directed energy weapons and magnetic rail guns. I wouldn't expect to see either of them on the battlefield anytime soon though.
Lazy weapon designers stop experimenting with tanks and start building giant mechs.
Wow, magnetic rail guns but most of these weapons are in experimental phases and that can take along time. The comanche choppers were suppose the have entered production in 2001 but I still don't think it is. Also I have an idea for a simple sort of shell or bomb. It's magnetic so once fired it will attach itself to a vechicle's metal and then explode. I mean if tank shells were magnetic, the shells are already pretty acurate, if they are magnetic there's be hardly any missing. It would also work well in carpet bombings of air fields what do you guys thing?

And mechs look and sound cool and all but I think the legs would be really easy to trip the thing. I just say if they really want to be lazy they just build a tank 10 times larger with the same designs, but bigger every thing. Then it'll be like the godzilla of tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
well the US military are planning to get rid of tanks, and instead replacing them with light mobile vheicals (AHHH SPELLING!) with high power guns... so i dont know

PAnzers and Tiger tanks are my all time favourite, its outdated of course since its a ww2 model.

DAMN ISRAEL!!! hahaha HOW CAN THEY SELL PATRIOT MISSLES TO CHINA!?!!?! thats right, these ppl didnt know how to use it, so they sold all of it to china, now they have US patriots.... *sigh*. Lets hope they dont do that with the new laser defense system we're working on and planning to give to the israelies.
I don't see what's wrong if the Chinese have patriot missles. Yeah they are advanced and all but, I don't think any major power is going to war with the People's Republic anytime soon, plus I the patriot is mainly a defensive weapon, it's not like it'll be a theat to us. In fact I doubt any military super power would go to war with each other anytime soon either. It's only the small countries with oil or bananas that really have to worry. And the laser defense system research right now is crap, so far it's just a bunch of engineers playing laser tag.
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Old 2003-11-19, 03:26   Link #7
Anlushac11
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Best current tank for economy and costs?

I really like the Abrahms but I have to go with the Leopard II. Which is similar to the tanks seen in End of Evangelion. See theres the anime link in the post.

And the Mobile Protected Gun System which was intended to replace the M551 Sheridan has been cancelled due to budget costs.

What gets me is that the US Army wanted a new APC. They were going to cooperate on a design. Marines chose the MOWAG Piranha. US Army says no. Spends countless hundreds of millions of dollars to build hte Bradley IFV...which doesnt meet any of the original design requirements. And now instead of a 16 ton APC that was cheap and mobile the Army has a overpriced, inadequate 35ton medium tank capable of hauling troops. And now the US Army wants to put a 50mm gun on it. Maybe they should just rename it Sherman.

My favorite tank of WW2 was the Panzerkampfwagen V Ausf G Panther. It was the pioneer of what we call today the Main Battle Tank. It was the first tank to combine all the qualities we see today in one chassis.

The kicker is now the US Army has decided they need a lightweight cheap APC for scouting and urban combat and picked the LAV Gen-III, aka The Stryker. A VERSION OF THE LAV-25 THEY TURNED DOWN OVER 10 YEARS AGO!!!

I dont think the large mecha like seen in Gundam, Robotech, and Battletech will ever be really popular. They are too big to hide and even stand off weapons and laser guided bombs would be easy to target them.

I think if they do build anything similar to mecha it will be about the size seen in Full Metal Panic Fumoffu (Bonta-kun), Heavy gear(the computer game), and Battletech( Elementals body armor)
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Old 2003-11-19, 03:57   Link #8
144M_HYPERION
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Fuel is always the issue when it comes to the M1 series tanks. Their 1500 hp engine is powerful, but it is just too fuel inefficient.

Most tanks in the modern days use a crew of 3 instead of 4 (Automatic loader) while the US is still stick with the old 4 man crew system.

Personally I like the Leopard II A6 MBT, Type-90 MBT (JSGDF), and Type-98 MBT (PLAA) I don't know why but I kinda dislike the design of the British Challanger II MBT

IMO I think mecha will be a good weapon of choice for open ground combat. I hope some country will build some of them in the future (In my dreams I guess)
Mecha from Gundam and Macross just looks too complicated and too costly. I think the ones from Patlabor will be more realistic and more applicable to modern warfare.
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Old 2003-11-19, 04:04   Link #9
hunterx
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tanks are still needed, maybe not as much as they used in GF2 but if you're infantry and you engage enemy troops you'll sure feel better with an m1 on your side. What it is not good for is city fighting or dealing with guerilla attacks. Imho major combat is over, the m1s don't need to be used to chase a few guys with some ak47s. THey could use the bradley or even special forces or something. But then again, when you don't want to lose any troops you end up having to rely on machinery instead of going toe to toe
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Old 2003-11-19, 04:14   Link #10
144M_HYPERION
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What we need is some Terminators at our side for urban warfare.
We should tell Mr. Arnold to build some

But I agree, Tanks are phasing out from modern warfare.
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Old 2003-11-19, 04:18   Link #11
Nazgul8
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Silent Spring: Your idea has been tried before in WWII. Navys and Armys on both sides used magnetic mines. The main problem I can think of using something like that today is all the composite non-ferros materials used in weapon systems today.

The railgun concept could be viable, but I think the main problem would be the power source used. And would it be more effective than regular artillary rounds. Best area of application for something like this would probably be space.

Zoro: why uranium? any relatively dense material dropped from that height would work I would think.

You should really read "Footfall" by Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle. This is a science fiction book but a lot of the weapons used are either conventional or could be buit. My vote for the ultimate weapon platform would be the Archangel from this book.

As far as mechs go the only thing I could see being built any time soon would be more like the loader suit from "Aliens".
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Old 2003-11-19, 04:52   Link #12
Forse
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Great thread I am myself into guns..sniper rifles actually. I don't know much about them, but I am learning and I love the way they look and the power they give

Here is my current favorite (Barrett M82A1):

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Old 2003-11-19, 05:48   Link #13
Mad Cat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forse
Great thread I am myself into guns..sniper rifles actually. I don't know much about them, but I am learning and I love the way they look and the power they give

Here is my current favorite (Barrett M82A1):

Tsk tsk the gun is to heavy and if your going to carry ammo in it, it gets even heavyer.
My favorite is AI Arctic Warfare Super Magnum also known in Cs as AWP

Its light for a sniper rifle and it has a desent kill range of 800 and more depening on the sniper rifle typ (yes there is more types then one)


My favo assault rifle gotta be my swedish AK-5.
The AK-5 is built to work in all weathers, mostly artic becouse thats what we have here in Sweden.
Its just a very good gun but the only flaw it has is that its a little to heavy, 4kg with the mag in.



Forgot to add somethings

The best tank EVER built was T-34. It had it all, armor, the gun and the speed.
The Germans had sever problem with thoes tanks and it was only the 88mm Flak Cannon that could take them out.
To bad that the Russian tank crew was poorly trained and inexperiancet.

Mechs would be better then tanks but they wouldnt be that big.
Have would you choose? a mech that is very mobile (like a human that is) or a tank?
The Mechs would be so much better then the tank becouse its mobile, very moblie and it could probly carry more firepower then a tank but again its a huge target for chopers, planes, tanks and other mechs :/

Last edited by Mad Cat; 2003-11-19 at 06:01.
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Old 2003-11-19, 07:42   Link #14
0ink
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Nothing to heavy about my AK...

I love it but then again, its... MY gun.

Ps: Im no fanboy, im the real deal
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Old 2003-11-19, 08:48   Link #15
BME
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Soon...

I´ll get the AK-5 too when my service starts soon.

Always play with the FNC (the Belgian Rifle that the AK-5 is based on) in Rainbow Six: Raven Shield.
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Old 2003-11-19, 08:57   Link #16
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I got rid of my G3A4 a few days ago but I guess I'll miss it

Info about G3A3 & G3A4(retractable buttstock)
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Old 2003-11-19, 09:55   Link #17
Mad Cat
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Originally Posted by BME


Soon...

I´ll get the AK-5 too when my service starts soon.

Always play with the FNC (the Belgian Rifle that the AK-5 is based on) in Rainbow Six: Raven Shield.
When and were are you going to do your service?
Im just going to do 3 months värnplikt then ill be in the hemvärnet and i get my OWN GUN BWHAHAHAA.

Ps. its still heavy if you compare it to Famas
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Old 2003-11-19, 11:04   Link #18
K_R
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Originally Posted by Forse
Here is my current favorite (Barrett M82A1):

There was an M82 on aution not so long ago:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=5121474
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Old 2003-11-19, 11:05   Link #19
Anlushac11
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The T34 was the best tank when it came out. The problem was the Russians didnt make the necesary improvements fast enough to keep up.

A PZ-III with the long barreled 50mm gun could penetrate the side armor of the T34 but had to get in close.

By summer of 1943 at Kursk, the Russians still were using the 76.2mm gunned T34 model 1943, the 76.2mm gunned KV-1 model 942 and had some 85mm gunned KV-85's.

The Germans had the 88mm gunned Tiger IE, the long barreled 75mm L/70 gunned Panther A, and the 75mm L/43 gunned PanzerIV. Any of these tanks could knock out the T34 at ranges before it could return effective fire. The Tiger and Panther could knock out any of the Tanks at over 1500M. The best gunned Soviet tank was the KV-85 and even it had to close to 500M to penetrate a Tiger or Panther.

T34 did have sloped armor but it only had 45mm of sloped armor on the front. Same as a US M4 Sherman. By late 1943 the Germans could knock out T34's and Shermans at ranges of over 2000M. Not good when the same Shermans and T34's had to close to 500M and even then stood only a 50/50 chance of knocking out a Tiger or Panthers side armor. They still could not penetrate the frontal armor. The Russians did develop a HVAP round for the 85mm gun called the Arrowhead. Unfortunately it was horribly inaccurate and the T-34/85's still had to close to 500-800M to have a chance of hitting.

And Panther and T34 both suffered from Transmission problems. T34's early in the war used to go into combat with a spare transmission strapped to the rear deck since they were that unreliable. Both tanks eventually had the bugs worked out and proved to be excellent tanks. T34 production didnt end til about 1964 and France was using Panthers in its Army til the early 60's.

Last edited by Anlushac11; 2003-11-19 at 14:45.
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Old 2003-11-19, 11:23   Link #20
BME
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Cat
When and were are you going to do your service?
Im just going to do 3 months värnplikt then ill be in the hemvärnet and i get my OWN GUN BWHAHAHAA.

Ps. its still heavy if you compare it to Famas

Just 3 months? I´m in for 10 Months of conscription starting 26th of January, first 12 weeks at Karlskrona I believe and then the rest at Berga Naval Base.

http://www.os.mil.se/article.php?id=9052


We´ll be playing fun games like Pistolwhip the punk and Bury the Skinhead´s face in the snow
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