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Old 2008-08-13, 13:50   Link #1041
Evangelion Xgouki
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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Indeed.
Might have more ammo for your fic, Kyral.

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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
That rises the question.

Why are all combat cyborgs female?

Yeah, Jail used girls to breed. But why the same in the new TSAB?
Maybe they just kept it that way because Jail's already perfected that technique and didn't want to worry about complication arising should they use males
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Old 2008-08-13, 13:53   Link #1042
Keroko
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Mahou Shoujo, remember?
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Old 2008-08-13, 13:54   Link #1043
Kyral
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Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Might have more ammo for your fic, Kyral.
Nah, I don't think I will use this for Nightfall.

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Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Maybe they just kept it that way because Jail's already perfected that technique and didn't want to worry about complication arising should they use males
Maybe... or Himura just didn't really thought about it and went: "Well they were all girls in StrikerS so I'm making them all girls here."

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Mahou Shoujo, remember?
For heroines, not for grunts!
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Old 2008-08-13, 18:22   Link #1044
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All I say is BetrayerS looks like it'll have lots of good action...
But I'm not expecting much plot-wise. At least from the teasers I can't possibly imagine why the break up would happen... Or at the very least why Fate wouldn't come with Nanoha and Hayate considering how close the trio is.

Sounds more like the manga has a flimsy reason to split up canon characters for the pure purpose of HOTBLOODED AWESOME combat
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Old 2008-08-13, 19:01   Link #1045
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
All I say is BetrayerS looks like it'll have lots of good action...
But I'm not expecting much plot-wise. At least from the teasers I can't possibly imagine why the break up would happen... Or at the very least why Fate wouldn't come with Nanoha and Hayate considering how close the trio is.

Sounds more like the manga has a flimsy reason to split up canon characters for the pure purpose of HOTBLOODED AWESOME combat
Naturally when it comes to HOTBLOODED AWESOME, the denizens of the Nanoha forum heartily (or lustily... as in healthy, people) approve.

At least I do.

Man, that reminds me, wasn't there a picture of Hayate acting like the "Fuhrer" or something on the image thread, someone has got dig it out.
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Old 2008-08-13, 19:37   Link #1046
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Sounds more like the manga has a flimsy reason to split up canon characters for the pure purpose of HOTBLOODED AWESOME combat
Pretty much. I know that after I looked at the BetrayerS preview page, the biggest thing in my mind was, "Holy shit, I want to see the NanohaxFate fight!" Not sure if I'm the only one, but I want Fate to smash Nanoha.
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Old 2008-08-13, 19:44   Link #1047
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Originally Posted by Xellos View Post
Pretty much. I know that after I looked at the BetrayerS preview page, the biggest thing in my mind was, "Holy shit, I want to see the NanohaxFate fight!" Not sure if I'm the only one, but I want Fate to smash Nanoha.
Oh I promise you, you are not the only one...*evil laugh*
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Old 2008-08-13, 20:20   Link #1048
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Heh. I'm not sure what I want to see D=.
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Old 2008-08-13, 20:49   Link #1049
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This will be one helluva a dark extension. Those of us who damned Alpha might be eating our words over this (I'm not immune too...), but clearly this is no longer a Mahou Shoujo type story, but a Real Mahou Shoujo type. The only difference may well be that we have all the angst, but only a bit of militarism, for Hayate to lead a coup'd'atat and succeed, many many miltakus cried out in unison then were quickly silenced forever.

So... Should we throw ourselves fully and wholehearted at this? I don't know. Barring jokes, I'm personally skeptical about this.

But yes, cosmic horrors are not needed for drama. If anything, they are only for Battle of Helmsdeep; it's the political intrigue and angst that make a work readable I understand that.

But at the same time, remember what genre we're in. Too much intrigue, and we'll lose the flavor. Just like having too much horrors will spoil the broth too.

I advocate balance, and I'm not sure if BetrayerS will be balanced. It would be a great Shounen manga, but I'm not sure if that's what we want Nanoha to be.

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Originally Posted by ThEJeDI6911 View Post
I think Nanoha is on the "darker" side in this one lol. Don't think there's going to be much befriending in this since this is a lot darker than the canon series.

If befriending actually does happen I think Fate would be the one doing it because she's the one sticking to the old ideals of using only magic to uphold the peace. But I don't think this doujin could have a happy ending.
I was wondering when Fate and Nanoha will go Suzaku VS Lelouch.

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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I am rather amused over how we are discussing over this doujin as if it was really canon. Maybe some of us are seeing this as what StrikerS could have been?

The hell, I am liking it!
Its because many elements in BetrayerS seem to mirror the leaked art of SSM and beyond. I mistook Keroko's comment about Hayate leading a cyborg company for the one in the Megami mag.

Hey, notice that we now have Yagami Hayate as the God of the New World and possesses a powerful Book capable of erasing her foes. Sky Note much? XD
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Old 2008-08-14, 03:31   Link #1050
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
All I say is BetrayerS looks like it'll have lots of good action...
But I'm not expecting much plot-wise. At least from the teasers I can't possibly imagine why the break up would happen... Or at the very least why Fate wouldn't come with Nanoha and Hayate considering how close the trio is.

Sounds more like the manga has a flimsy reason to split up canon characters for the pure purpose of HOTBLOODED AWESOME combat
The OC thread could take a lesson from this, your story doesn't need to make perfect sense in the universe in order to be enjoyble.

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Originally Posted by Xellos View Post
Pretty much. I know that after I looked at the BetrayerS preview page, the biggest thing in my mind was, "Holy shit, I want to see the NanohaxFate fight!" Not sure if I'm the only one, but I want Fate to smash Nanoha.
Not me. I'm hoping to see Fate get another pounding.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Its because many elements in BetrayerS seem to mirror the leaked art of SSM and beyond. I mistook Keroko's comment about Hayate leading a cyborg company for the one in the Megami mag.
You mean SSX, SSM was the 'answering viewer questions' sound stage.

Also, SSX was said to have no Nanoha, Fate and Hayate at all.
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Old 2008-08-14, 04:27   Link #1051
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
This will be one helluva a dark extension. Those of us who damned Alpha might be eating our words over this (I'm not immune too...), but clearly this is no longer a Mahou Shoujo type story, but a Real Mahou Shoujo type. The only difference may well be that we have all the angst, but only a bit of militarism, for Hayate to lead a coup'd'atat and succeed, many many miltakus cried out in unison then were quickly silenced forever.
Hayate leading a coup d'etat and succeeding, why not? She was flaunted as a smart girl, capable tactician and strategist in A's epilogue. StrikerS and 7Arcs are to be blamed to have failed to portray her well in that department.

Quote:
So... Should we throw ourselves fully and wholehearted at this? I don't know. Barring jokes, I'm personally skeptical about this.
Read Sword Dancers. While Kiseki Himura may have strayed off F/SN and Nasuverse holy canon, he has shown to be able to deliver. Not a lot of us are half-able to do that. And yes, I stand by the belief that anyone must remember there are always someone who can top him or her.

Quote:
But yes, cosmic horrors are not needed for drama. If anything, they are only for Battle of Helmsdeep; it's the political intrigue and angst that make a work readable I understand that.

But at the same time, remember what genre we're in. Too much intrigue, and we'll lose the flavor. Just like having too much horrors will spoil the broth too.
Kiseki Himura wont dwell so deep in intrigue, I'll point you again to Sword Dancers.

Quote:
I advocate balance, and I'm not sure if BetrayerS will be balanced. It would be a great Shounen manga, but I'm not sure if that's what we want Nanoha to be.
It's not like the actual series was above showing "CHARGIIIIN MAH LAZER" moments.
Quote:


I was wondering when Fate and Nanoha will go Suzaku VS Lelouch.
Delivered by Nighty yesterday in IRC:



Fate: Snap out of it, Nanoha-chan!! Hayate-chan!! Was this the justice, the happiness you fought for!?

Hayate: NO! NO IT WAS NOT!!

Hayate: We fought fruitlessly, they killed millions...while we saved no one.

Hayate: But with small sacrifices, we now have the power to save millions.

Hayate: We tried to be decent soldier in indecent times! We failed! Not just ourselves, but those we swore to protect!!



This is the kind of drama that this kind of scenario can deliver. As pointed by Nighty, the parallel with Gil Graham, another officer and leading figure who has chosen a necessary evil as solution to one problem is interesting.


Quote:
Hey, notice that we now have Yagami Hayate as the God of the New World and possesses a powerful Book capable of erasing her foes. Sky Note much? XD
I have pointed out in the image thread that all Yagami are wicked, Iori Yagami, Light Yagami and Himura's Hayate Yagami.

This is indeed an ill-fated name.
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Old 2008-08-14, 04:44   Link #1052
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
The OC thread could take a lesson from this, your story doesn't need to make perfect sense in the universe in order to be enjoyble.
Let's not get too ahead of us here... So far, this manga is only hanging by its author's creds, so please exercise caution.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Not me. I'm hoping to see Fate get another pounding.
Depending on the outcome I'm either gonna like it or hate it...

...but I always favor the rebels in most scenarios. Fate getting defeated will be as sad as Black Knights' ownage in S1.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You mean SSX, SSM was the 'answering viewer questions' sound stage.

Also, SSX was said to have no Nanoha, Fate and Hayate at all.
Yeah SSX. There was one panel that match everything you said, except a shadow I couldn't see clearly. After reading your comment I thought that was Hayate.

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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Hayate leading a coup d'etat and succeeding, why not? She was flaunted as a smart girl, capable tactician and strategist in A's epilogue. StrikerS and 7Arcs are to be blamed to have failed to portray her well in that department.
No no no... The whole premise will have the likes of Goose, TK and their APC trampling in and screaming that's not how it works!!!, and then go about thrashing the party. THAT'S what I meant.

I remember when the last time I proposed something like a coup'de'atat, I got gloriously gunned down.

And so, from that perspective, this scenario is completely Khrack. The sheer silence from those miltaku is annoying me. Where's the flames? Where's the blazing gunfire they are so fond of? This silence is hypocracy.

It's annoying politics, just because of the author alone we throw flowers at him like the audience to a Spanish bullfighter, or burn him at the stake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Read Sword Dancers. While Kiseki Himura may have strayed off F/SN and Nasuverse holy canon, he has shown to be able to deliver. Not a lot of us are half-able to do that. And yes, I stand by the belief that anyone must remember there are always someone who can top him or her.
Yes it was awesome, but it was also in the canon's genre. Going so noir in tone for a Nanohaverse work runs dangerously close to going off track. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and condone this wholeheartedly until I read the manga for myself, especially after the big fiasco in the OC thread.

It'll be a good and inventive work, but whether or not its going to get full marks from me depends on how completely it deviates from the so-called "proper tone" of a canon extension, amongst other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Kiseki Himura wont dwell so deep in intrigue, I'll point you again to Sword Dancers.
Yeah it was a completely different story eventually. Too bad it didn't have a clear end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Delivered by Nighty yesterday in IRC:



Fate: Snap out of it, Nanoha-chan!! Hayate-chan!! Was this the justice, the happiness you fought for!?

Hayate: NO! NO IT WAS NOT!!

Hayate: We fought fruitlessly, they killed millions...while we saved no one.

Hayate: But with small sacrifices, we now have the power to save millions.

Hayate: We tried to be decent soldier in indecent times! We failed! Not just ourselves, but those we swore to protect!!



This is the kind of drama that this kind of scenario can deliver. As pointed by Nighty, the parallel with Gil Graham, another officer and leading figure who has chosen a necessary evil as solution to one problem is interesting.
...that smelt like Code Geass.

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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I have pointed out in the image thread that all Yagami are wicked, Iori Yagami, Light Yagami and Himura's Hayate Yagami.

This is indeed an ill-fated name.
Hell yeah.
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Old 2008-08-14, 05:14   Link #1053
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...but I always favor the rebels in most scenarios. Fate getting defeated will be as sad as Black Knights' ownage in S1.
I usually favor the rulers. Or at least the party that has the least politics and most military. Star Wars? Imperial sympathiser through and through. Mass Effect? Oposed the council as much as I could, and the galaxy is currently under human rule. Siding with Hayate is only natural. Plus, they have Nanoha.

Maybe in BetrayerSverse, the spectres can be more homage to their origins. :3

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No no no... The whole premise will have the likes of Goose, TK and their APC trampling in and screaming that's not how it works!!!, and then go about thrashing the party. THAT'S what I meant.

I remember when the last time I proposed something like a coup'de'atat, I got gloriously gunned down.

And so, from that perspective, this scenario is completely Khrack. The sheer silence from those miltaku is annoying me. Where's the flames? Where's the blazing gunfire they are so fond of? This silence is hypocracy.

It's annoying politics, just because of the author alone we throw flowers at him like the audience to a Spanish bullfighter, or burn him at the stake.
Hence why I said the OC-thread could take a lesson of this. Lord knows how many times I shut up instead of screaming 'that's not how it works!' and smacked myself when I did.
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Old 2008-08-14, 05:38   Link #1054
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post

No no no... The whole premise will have the likes of Goose, TK and their APC trampling in and screaming that's not how it works!!!, and then go about thrashing the party. THAT'S what I meant.

I remember when the last time I proposed something like a coup'de'atat, I got gloriously gunned down.

And so, from that perspective, this scenario is completely Khrack. The sheer silence from those miltaku is annoying me. Where's the flames? Where's the blazing gunfire they are so fond of? This silence is hypocracy.

It's annoying politics, just because of the author alone we throw flowers at him like the audience to a Spanish bullfighter, or burn him at the stake.
You know, it is easy to throw such accusations against the interested parties when they were NOT even here.

Has you seen Goose and tk in IRC yesterday? Even in the forums? Has you not noticed that ATC was too busy doing things like actually writing his own crack instead of theorycrafting and getting shot for his crack?

And last time I checked, I was certain that khrack was mostly 40k refs and theorized VN-like endings that has made a couple of people facepalm.

I go back to my point that is, please do not throw hasty accusations against the other party when you are not even certain they knew about this doujin.
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Old 2008-08-14, 06:05   Link #1055
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Yes its easy to throw accusations, but I'm just as ready to take the fight back to them. But what I raised was supposed to be a what-if.

My main point of doing this is to be the voice of reason. We're all giving it accolades according to the author not according to the work. I'm saying we should wait for Comiket before we decide for sure, "Yes this is what Nanoha StrikerS should be." For I do not want a repeat of the disaster in the OC thread.

What I see in my mind: We all love it, and when Comiket comes and goes we love it according to herd mentality and miss that maybe its out-of-canon in tone. Things go along fine, we can and will grow stories according to it, then the miltaku finally wake up and bang, shit happens in the thread again. I do not want that, and hence I'm acting preemptively while it can be still contained.

At the same time, I'm not advocating the miltaku view; I merely expressing caution because these discussions are getting a little unbalanced. I do want to be proven wrong, and I expect to be, but to keep our eyes on the big picture, I had to say this.

Also, I find it sad that many authors are not given a chance, while the few with better creds are greeted with more anticipation and larger tolerance for bullshit simply because they know how to package it better. It's so damn obvious in the OC thread, and I swear it wasn't like that before. That is what I really find hypocritic, and I wanted to take this chance to bring it out into the open, and hopefully fix it.

I know I'm going to ruffle many feathers, but I've always stuck my neck out for silly stuff, doing it for something serious is no biggie.

Hence why I side the rebels, because I am a natural revolutionary.
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Old 2008-08-14, 06:30   Link #1056
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You talk about 'acting preemptively while it can be still contained.' and yet all this is is flamebait. This doujin has nothing to do with the OC-thread, and while it may serve to inspire us to take more risks, gamble a bit and throw things in a blender, there is no reason to turn that into a 'who is right' debate, especially in a thread that is clearly not the OC-thread.

In other words: Just start writing, don't debate whether you are right or wrong, just write.
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Old 2008-08-14, 06:51   Link #1057
Sheba
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I am writing! A prologue + first chapter. Right now I am at what? 5.6 words and it is not over yet. I am torn between the slacker who want to get things done already and the perfectionnist who want to make sure that the protagonists has been shown all cards in their hand, so the further developments of the story doesn't feel pulled off a top hat. I am not even satisfied with the dialogues, but I'll see that with the beta readers when I'll be done... Maybe this week-end?
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Old 2008-08-14, 07:11   Link #1058
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Ahahaha... It's been a while since we were gloriously "off-topic, Nanoha-style" ne?

I've made my point, so my job here is done. Though I wish I weren't so busy; my fic portfolio sorely needs a long-stalled overhaul, and the OC Vault Zwei renovations have gotten no further than a ground-breaking ceremony. :/
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Old 2008-08-14, 09:04   Link #1059
krisslanza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
The OC thread could take a lesson from this, your story doesn't need to make perfect sense in the universe in order to be enjoyble.
Well to a limit
Since the doujinshi's focus IS to get AWESOME BATTLES OF EPIC... You can ignore the fact the plot is REALLY weak and makes little to no sense from how I view it

Shouldn't go encouraging people to think you can write ANYTHING without some kind of plot though. But just that sometimes the plot can be sacrificed, partciularly if it's a one-shot or something?
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Old 2008-08-14, 10:01   Link #1060
Estavali
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A thought on why Nanoha had chosen to side Hayate and the "lesser of two evils"...

Vivio.

If the new rule can give her beloved daughter a safer, better world to live in, would Takamachi Nanoha, the Ace of Aces and also the loving mother of a young child, throw this chance away for an old regime that could have been proven to be no longer enough to protect the world that she so deeply loves? Such a person can no longer be afforded to be burdened down by the ideals of the crumbling past, especially when a greater weight is now placed on her shoulders, her future and her daughter's future.

Note that we are now using our "Orator" way of talking .
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