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Old 2008-08-10, 05:42   Link #81
kari-no-sugata
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They use different kinds of ki. Zoro is a more conventional thing and Asura is specifically Kiki (demon ki, many characters have commented on the nature of that also.)

Haki on the other hand shares absolutely no similarity as far as I know save for the fact that they both have ki. And I suppose Zoro might also pressure people (but bloodlust and 'ambition' are fairly different.)
Yeah, Haki hasn't been explained yet... but I'd think it's similar but ultimately different to what Zoro does, which could be described as "touki" (battle aura) or "kenki" (warrior spirit) and so on. I'd imagine that Haki is the most advanced.

Haki seems to be very rare - very few users outside of the New World it seems.


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And I'm hoping Haki isn't a system to beat logia users. I'd rather it be the case that you just have to be experienced and know how to deal with them to win (as Luffy has done.) As opposed to having some magical (not in a literal sense) answer to fighting them.
Shrug... well, personally I think it would be awkward if every time Luffy and co come up against a Logia user they first have to figure out the weakness. It's not like that's always possible in time and place. If there's no reliable way of beating Logia users, every single battle with Logia users will have to be contrived (because otherwise Luffy and co will lose). It's hardly likely to be the case the Haki allows for an easy victor against Logia users either.

Besides, Haki is certainly a multi-purpose skill. As Rayleigh showed, it's great for taking out grunts

May also be why Roger was able to hear the "voices of all things" too...
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Old 2008-08-10, 05:51   Link #82
kari-no-sugata
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Random thought: If Kizaru is a Logia user, why did he ride a canon ball to arrive on the island?

I suspect from a story-telling point of view it was to make his powers less obvious at the start.... but might also hint at a weakness.
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Old 2008-08-10, 10:19   Link #83
marvelB
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
Random thought: If Kizaru is a Logia user, why did he ride a canon ball to arrive on the island?

I suspect from a story-telling point of view it was to make his powers less obvious at the start.... but might also hint at a weakness.

Well, when he's on the cannonball he definitely used his powers to warp onto the island, since there was a flash of light before the cannonball exploded (something I pointed out when the chapter was released). My guess is that he rode on the cannonball so that he could get close enough to "teleport" via a window or something... which would most likely mean that he can't warp very far with his powers, unless he has a bunch of reflective objects to guide him (windows, mirrors, etc.).
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Old 2008-08-10, 11:09   Link #84
The Imadori
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I had hoped not to have to bring this up again but what do you think will happen to the supernovas? Was that it and they were in fact as predicted by some people only punching bags to show off Kizaru and the Kuma clones? Or will they, as I hope, play a further role in the manga?

Just curious about your opinion on that.
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Old 2008-08-10, 11:11   Link #85
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I only saw the anime version (maybe it differs from the manga), but I didn't get the impression, that Smoker really hates pirates.
IMHO he admired Gold Roger like everyone else at the execution, and the reason he is hunting for pirates is, that he thinks most of them don't live up to Gold Roger and aren't worth beeing Pirates.
Luffy on the other hand seems to be well on the way.
Yes I think the same way too.After Zoro saving him from drowning by Luffy's command Strawhats may gained some sympathy for Smoker.At least he still owns them his life (letting them run from marines is just not enough)
Since Strawhat is an unique crew that cares for civilians in a friendly way and always defeating bad guys to protect everyone (they saved both drum&alabasta kingdoms), Smoker may be seeing Lufy as his equal nemesis.They both care for justice stuff in their own but very different sides.Maybe they really showed Smoker that not every pirate is just a scum that tries to kill/steal but some of them are still noble and mighty as Gold Roger style...


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Originally Posted by The Imadori View Post
I had hoped not to have to bring this up again but what do you think will happen to the supernovas? Was that it and they were in fact as predicted by some people only punching bags to show off Kizaru and the Kuma clones? Or will they, as I hope, play a further role in the manga?

Just curious about your opinion on that.
We've seen some random punching bags like Galley-la muscular guy or paulie against CP9.Since power terms are a bit changing in here with admirals and rest wasting some supernovas still possible.The most important step showing us this result is the least no bounty Urouge, storyline didnt even give him a chance to shine except 3-4 combo punch on kuma and kuma clone always countered him with another attack no matter how hard he tried...Maybe Oda doesnt want to complicate story even longer by so many supernovas running around.At the end of this Only top 3 strongest may survive...like Kidd-Luffy-Hawkins.I have a strong feeling that Law is gonna get pretty badly owned by Kuma clone.It's Kidd+Law vs 1 Kuma.In order to give pacifista some credit there must be some loss for supernovas and if someones gonna get waste I'll prefer it to be Law since Kidd is just more mysterious and interesting to me
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Old 2008-08-10, 11:17   Link #86
marvelB
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Originally Posted by The Imadori View Post
I had hoped not to have to bring this up again but what do you think will happen to the supernovas? Was that it and they were in fact as predicted by some people only punching bags to show off Kizaru and the Kuma clones? Or will they, as I hope, play a further role in the manga?

Just curious about your opinion on that.


While it's inevitable that some of them will fall, I still think that some of them will become future rivals/allies to Luffy and co. in the New World (for me, Law's almost a given to reach the NW at this point). It's obvious that these guys were introduced to show that the Straw-Hats aren't the only big, bad pirates to watch out for in the Grand Line's first half, so I don't see all of them falling too easily. Plus, their designs and powers are too unique for them all to be considered cannon foder....
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Old 2008-08-11, 07:47   Link #87
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While it's inevitable that some of them will fall, I still think that some of them will become future rivals/allies to Luffy and co. in the New World (for me, Law's almost a given to reach the NW at this point). It's obvious that these guys were introduced to show that the Straw-Hats aren't the only big, bad pirates to watch out for in the Grand Line's first half, so I don't see all of them falling too easily. Plus, their designs and powers are too unique for them all to be considered cannon foder....
actually i think Kizaru will ignore the falling super nova since he only care about the catching the primary offensive kid, law and SH.




Actually ever since they showed Kuma clone i always though they where machine and not human, also i was confused but since this chapter stated that there is human inside those Cyborgs, the confusion is gone and i came up with different idea.

i think those Cyborgs have clones inside of them, but those clones are not Kuma but instead i think they are Kizaru clones, the outside appearance is just an armour, well what i found strange is that when kuma said that Vegapunk think he is incomplete so i kinda felt confused since those machine doesn't look stronger than him, then i though that the reason why vegapunk consider Kuma incomplete is
1- because Kuma even though he do exactly as the WG ask him to do he have mind of his own and sometime ignore order which mean that he think.

2- Kuma power can only work with a person that can think and plan his action, which mean for a puppet using Kuma power is going to be very difficult while Kizaru power can be used easily so that why he mostly cloned Kizaru and he slaved the clones probably non of them have a mind of his own, also since they are clones they mostly can't fully used Kizaru powers.

now the armour mostly was created or he came up with it when he created Kuma the first time, if so then the difference in size between Kizaru and Kuma is filled with armour, weapon and many other things, he gave them the face of kuma just for the seek of creating fear and confusions to the enemy, and to hide some facts he doesn't want people to knows about his Cyborgs army.
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Old 2008-08-13, 12:35   Link #88
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i actually have this feeling that these supernovas other than law and kid won't have their role furthered in the manga. The reason for this is because luffy, law and kid have promised to meet each other in the new world as rivals. While the others, even if they reach new world, they won't have any significant roles.
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Old 2008-08-13, 15:38   Link #89
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i actually have this feeling that these supernovas other than law and kid won't have their role furthered in the manga. The reason for this is because luffy, law and kid have promised to meet each other in the new world as rivals. While the others, even if they reach new world, they won't have any significant roles.
Hey what about Jewelry Bonney? She said she would crush Luffy and his crew in the new world. Don't you think her role in the manga should be more important? I mean I would like to see her try to knock some common sense into Luffy at least.
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Old 2008-08-13, 16:48   Link #90
marvelB
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Like I said before, the Supernova who strikes me most as being "marked" at this point is Hawkins. He constantly predicted his own survival sure, but he still came really close to being killed by Kizaru. In the end there's a good chance that he'll be captured, especially considering how badly he was beaten....


After him I'd have to say the next to fall is Capone (as much as I don't want to admit it), though not because of Kizaru or the Pacifistas. I have the feeling that a crappy coating job will prevent him from making it to Merman Island, let alone the New World....
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Old 2008-08-14, 08:11   Link #91
MooMooFarm
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
Random thought: If Kizaru is a Logia user, why did he ride a canon ball to arrive on the island?

I suspect from a story-telling point of view it was to make his powers less obvious at the start.... but might also hint at a weakness.
Wow I can't believe you asked such a simple question.

If you were Kizaru, would you just take the simple route and laser your way there? Or pull off some stupid stunt to make yourself look really cool? LOOK AT THAT FACE AND TELL ME TRUTHFULLY. A MUG LIKE THAT WILL NEVER HAVE A CHANCE AT BEING COOL IF YOU DON'T MAKE USE OF THESE LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES.
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Old 2008-08-14, 21:40   Link #92
Bonta Kun
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Wow I can't believe you asked such a simple question.

If you were Kizaru, would you just take the simple route and laser your way there? Or pull off some stupid stunt to make yourself look really cool? LOOK AT THAT FACE AND TELL ME TRUTHFULLY. A MUG LIKE THAT WILL NEVER HAVE A CHANCE AT BEING COOL IF YOU DON'T MAKE USE OF THESE LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES.
LOL I said before his entrance was just brillant, only in OP could that happen.

Just like Garp says "its more impressive to make an entrance like that!!"
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Old 2008-08-15, 00:38   Link #93
Would?
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Its to bad that it is a holiday week in japan, or else we could find out more about our Kunie Tanaka like friend (thats Kizaru for the uninformed public).
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Old 2008-08-15, 03:55   Link #94
Trax
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
Random thought: If Kizaru is a Logia user, why did he ride a canon ball to arrive on the island?

I suspect from a story-telling point of view it was to make his powers less obvious at the start.... but might also hint at a weakness.
No need to overthink that, I think he just likes to make a flashy entrance.
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Old 2008-08-15, 05:58   Link #95
The Imadori
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I think MOST strong one piece characters do Remember Luffy in Water 7 in Icebergs house? Or Crocodile? Ok Enels wasn't THAT dynamic but Enel is personated coolness on my watch so no need.
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Old 2008-08-17, 01:28   Link #96
Master Mold
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The only thing I see stopping Yellow Monkey from stomping the SH crew into the center of the earth, is Silvers.
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Old 2008-08-17, 10:35   Link #97
marvelB
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The only thing I see stopping Yellow Monkey from stomping the SH crew into the center of the earth, is Silvers.

I agree. And as I said before, Garp is a possibility, as well. Seeing how much effort the crew put into wrecking that one Pacifista, I don't see Luffy being on a high enough level to take on Borsalino mano-a-mano at this point (how can he hit someone who moves at the speed of light?). Heck, we don't even know how strong Kizaru's subordinate Sentoumaru is, yet....
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Old 2008-08-17, 11:42   Link #98
Master Mold
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I agree. And as I said before, Garp is a possibility, as well. Seeing how much effort the crew put into wrecking that one Pacifista, I don't see Luffy being on a high enough level to take on Borsalino mano-a-mano at this point (how can he hit someone who moves at the speed of light?). Heck, we don't even know how strong Kizaru's subordinate Sentoumaru is, yet....
Oh Yea, I forgot about Grap, he has to play a major role in getting Luffy and crew out of this heat, I also noticed all the effort the SH crew had to put in to take down that Kuma bot, there lucky the Real Kuma isn't there, but you know what's been on my mind for the past week, what if the Nova's get captured and sent to Impel Down, and later bust out during the Whitebeard invasion?
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Old 2008-08-18, 13:25   Link #99
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Yellow Monkey is kicking everybody's butts, Your all dead.
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Old 2008-08-18, 13:42   Link #100
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Someone really should make an overpowered Kizaru fighting card.
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