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Old 2008-08-20, 06:20   Link #2261
Stretch5920
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Lelouch probably never beat Schneizel because of the same reason in that chess game. His pride.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:21   Link #2262
ZeroSama
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
I mean EVER. Lelouch even says he never beaten Schneizel. This was no different and he knew it when he saw him there that he had no way out. He could have Geassed the BKs into killing themselves, but that wouldn't have stopped the KMFs from blasting him and splattering him across the wall.
I meant at the very start of the show at the begining of S1. If Lelouch was a truly, evil, heartless person he would have won no problem. However his humanity has always held him back from using the geass to its fullest potential.

Without it geassing Suzaku(primary cause of his downfall) and discarding Nunnally(secondary cause) would've been none issues.

Evil will always triump over good.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:21   Link #2263
DarkLordOfkichiku
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I would say he defeats him in China. He stopped the China/Brittiania union and got a very good general out of in the process.
Well,t here's that. Still, that's only one battle and Schneizel has for now completely turned the tables. Still, as long as Lelouch is alive, the war has not ended and he has yet to come up with a counter-attack of his own at Schneizel...
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:30   Link #2264
Orga777
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I meant at the very start of the show at the begining of S1. If Lelouch was a truly, evil, heartless person he would have won no problem. However his humanity has always held him back from using the geass to its fullest potential.
Except... Lelouch would need Geass to beat Schneizel at that point. Meaning he is too weak on his own to do it. Lelouch's humanity didn't hold him back. It was his PRIDE. Lelouch is very arrogant and egotistical. He isn't just going to Geass to get his way. He still wants to WIN to gloat about it.

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Evil will always triump over good.
Not in fiction. ANd I can find examples in real life too for that matter.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:32   Link #2265
Var
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Not in fiction. ANd I can find examples in real life too for that matter.
I triumph over you daily. >.>

I'd say that for Lelouch, it is both pride and humanity that keep him barred down. He's unable to remove his weakest links which are his connections to the people he holds dear. On several occasions, they have made him crumble or act in order to save them instead of himself/his original plan.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:33   Link #2266
ZeroSama
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Except... Lelouch would need Geass to beat Schneizel at that point. Meaning he is too weak on his own to do it. Lelouch's humanity didn't hold him back. It was his PRIDE. Lelouch is very arrogant and egotistical. He isn't just going to Geass to get his way. He still wants to WIN to gloat about it.



Not in fiction. ANd I can find examples in real life too for that matter.
You may be able to find examples in real life yes but those examples will be overshadowed by the sheer number of atrocious acts that have been carried out.

Also where do you think the term "downer ending" came from? The good guys don't win then either.

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I triumph over you daily. >.>

I'd say that for Lelouch, it is both pride and humanity that keep him barred down. He's unable to remove his weakest links which are his connections to the people he holds dear. On several occasions, they have made him crumble or act in order to save them instead of himself/his original plan.
Thats why i said if he was truly cold, heartless, manipulative and without morals from the start of season 1 he would have won know problem. His humanity would not have interefed with his plans and screwed him over so spectacularly.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:38   Link #2267
Orga777
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I triumph over you daily. >.>
Pfft. I guess I will just stop being nice is all.

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I'd say that for Lelouch, it is both pride and humanity that keep him barred down. He's unable to remove his weakest links which are his connections to the people he holds dear. On several occasions, they have made him crumble or act in order to save them instead of himself/his original plan.
Well, yeah.

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Also where do you think the term "downer ending" came from? The good guys don't win then either.
Which is why I favor "everyone dies!" at the moment.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:41   Link #2268
ZeroSama
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Which is why I favor "everyone dies!" at the moment.
Well i suppose if they can kill Nunnally the only truly innocent character in the show everyone else might as well go straight to hell as well.

At least everyone will be partially happy then. The Suzaku haters will be happy because he's dead, lelouch haters will be happy because he's dead and everyone will rejoice because Nina's dead.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:43   Link #2269
Var
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Pfft. I guess I will just stop being nice is all.
Just thought I'd note that.


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Well, yeah.
You seemed more inclined to blame it on his pride when it is both that bring him down.

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Which is why I favor "everyone dies!" at the moment.
Everyone except Orange.

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At least everyone will be partially happy then. The Suzaku haters will be happy because he's dead, lelouch haters will be happy because he's dead and everyone will rejoice because Nina's dead.
"And there was much rejoicing."
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:45   Link #2270
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...and everyone will rejoice because Nina's dead.
Guan Yu is in Heaven and All Is Right With The World.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:46   Link #2271
Orga777
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You seemed more inclined to blame it on his pride when it is both that bring him down.
Well, if you get rid of his humanity, his egotistical pride would STILL be there and any good villain needs to gloat at a true victory after all... So it still may not have been the way Lelouch did things even without humanity.
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Old 2008-08-20, 06:50   Link #2272
Var
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Well, if you get rid of his humanity, his egotistical pride would STILL be there and any good villain needs to gloat at a true victory after all... So it still may not have been the way Lelouch did things even without humanity.
Fair enough but that is an assumption. Pride is, after all, a side-effect of being human. If we turned Lelouch into the most evil, inhuman asshole ever, he may not even have pride. He may be just like Charles... in fact he would be just like Charles. Lelouch without his humanity is more likely to be Charles 2.0 than Schneizel.
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:10   Link #2273
Orga777
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Fair enough but that is an assumption. Pride is, after all, a side-effect of being human. If we turned Lelouch into the most evil, inhuman asshole ever, he may not even have pride. He may be just like Charles... in fact he would be just like Charles. Lelouch without his humanity is more likely to be Charles 2.0 than Schneizel.
Impossible. Even the most evil of villains *cough*Joker*cough* have an ego. It comes into the territory of being a villain.
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:15   Link #2274
raikou
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Impossible. Even the most evil of villains *cough*Joker*cough* have an ego. It comes into the territory of being a villain.
no villan is without an ego. Then why would they be a villian?
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:18   Link #2275
Orga777
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no villan is without an ego. Then why would they be a villian?
I am confused here. I said all villains have an ego...<.<' Now what are you saying?
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:20   Link #2276
ZeroSama
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no villan is without an ego. Then why would they be a villian?
Well the terminator didn't have an ego yet it didn't stop it from filling the part of the villain.

To have fun. Its always to more fun to be the villain. Take Mass Effect, KOTOR or NWN you can either be a human doormat by being the good guy or be evil and just be fabulous.
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:24   Link #2277
raikou
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wait, egos must direct a person to become a villian..
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:25   Link #2278
aurr
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Hm. In NWN2 there were more benefits to be a good one.
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:28   Link #2279
ZeroSama
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Hm. In NWN2 there were more benefits to be a good one.
I have the second one but have yet to play it because from what i've heard its still quite buggy. Plus i can't seem to give up the WarCrack.
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:32   Link #2280
raikou
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frozen throne or adrenaline powder?
nightelves ftw!^
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