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Old 2008-08-20, 17:55   Link #201
Rias
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Finally finished reading...I see many people have already finished reading a long time ago. Not in the deducing mood yet, so here are my thoughts about this story:

Spoiler for Main Story: Definitely better than 1/2...but Ryukishi07's bad habit of over-describing is back.:


Spoiler for tea party: Funny at start, super development in the middle:


Spoiler for ??? (Hidden Tea Party): Some time after 1986...:

Spoiler for TIPS: more afterthoughts:

It has been an awesome episode. So until next time, "see you again, have a nice day."
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Last edited by Rias; 2008-08-20 at 18:45.
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Old 2008-08-20, 23:22   Link #202
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Looking through the many translation.

Really, I just like Hideyoshi, out of the parents he just seems the be the most "mature" of them all, followed by Rudolf and Kyrie.

Enju has a brother complex what is this interesting no?
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Old 2008-08-21, 00:06   Link #203
Nadeor
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I would say if I don't know Ryukishi-sensei better, I'd say he had given up on Umineko...
Due to the fact that EP3 sounds more screwed up than ever...
With the Stakes being NEET now and Some other random creeps running around on loose
...
Ginzo: Screw that, I'mma outta here
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Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep1: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep2: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep3: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep4: Finished

Umineko no Naku Koro ni EP5: ...??

Accumulating 07th point -.-
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Old 2008-08-21, 00:22   Link #204
Apathy
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It only seems to get more confusing... ._.;

Spoiler for more annoying questions:


I suppose it's even more confusing in 3, as it mostly takes place in the witches' world...
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Old 2008-08-21, 00:28   Link #205
Sterling01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apathy View Post
[SPOILER="more annoying questions"]Kuma = bear?
Supernatural events in 1 and 2 are just the witches' claims... were they happening or not, in that case?
Don't ask about Kuma = Bear... It's just stupid
They "happened" in the eyes of the Witches
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Originally Posted by Nadeor View Post
I would say if I don't know Ryukishi-sensei better, I'd say he had given up on Umineko...
Due to the fact that EP3 sounds more screwed up than ever...
Don't worry for the third arc of Higurashi... people thinking that as well
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Old 2008-08-21, 00:40   Link #206
Rias
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I guess the ultimate question is: If the meta world does behave like schrodinger's cat theory, then

Spoiler:


That would make the story quite boring actually.

Also, seems that there are much mention that ワルギリア = Virgil. As ウェルギリウス = Vergilius, whom of course, is derived from Divine Comedy/Dante's Inferno.
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Old 2008-08-21, 01:21   Link #207
Apathy
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I know that kuma (熊 ) = bear, but that's about as far as I got with that one. ;

I never really understood the Schrodinger's cat theory. Ehe.

Although, from what I can grasp of it, it might presumably cause things to make sense in the witches' 'claims' versus reality, if it came to that.
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Old 2008-08-21, 01:44   Link #208
kj1980
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I know that red text sometimes shows up at crucial/frightening points of the game (and, of course, the red 'na' has significance in the title), but it seems to hold another sort of significant power?
Actually, the red text is a visual effect which provides Battler (the game player) the absolute truth. A sample would be:

George W. Bush is the President of the United States. He is the dumbest president ever.

The red colored texts mean that the witches' and their minions' statements are true. Uncolored text are opinions.



Come to think of it, I wonder how this will be done in anime form? Red texted Japanese subtitles?
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Old 2008-08-21, 03:30   Link #209
tobiast88
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Schödinger's cat is an illustration of quantum theory. You have a cat in a box, with a mechanism to kill it at a random time - completely random, in a millisecond or in a million years. The box is hermetic. Having no information about what's inside, the cat is in a state of flux: not alive, not dead, since you don't know. Once you open the box, that state of flux is over: you've observed and therefore perturbed the system, but gained information - but you don't know the state of the cat before you opened the box. The cat could have died, found Beatrice's gold, ate Maria's rose, pooped on each of the stakes' and the siestas' heads individually and turned itself inside out for all you know. All you know is what you observed, and when you observed you disturbed the system, possibly modifying the result. Meaning human consciousness can theoretically have an effect on the universe.
That's the theory.
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Old 2008-08-21, 03:33   Link #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apathy View Post
I never really understood the Schrodinger's cat theory. Ehe.
The schrodinger's cat theory is used in Umineko as a visual theory to determine a case with several truths.
Walgiria explained that until the "box is open", the cat may or may not be alive (she used the example of a cathode ray tube of a television, which may or may not contain a gremlin). In a case where you don't have any confirmation, several statements can be considered as "truth" until you actually open the box.
This is very different to the "probatio diabolica" as you force the fact that a fact cannot be discarded as long as there is no proof against that fact. In the schrodinger theory, you are actually allowing several truths to be real, and they decrease in numbers over time, as you probably gather more and more clues/points about the case, thus, like said earlier, the observation is lead to have consequence to a said unclear case.

So, in Beato and Battler witty battle, BOTH magic and science sides are true until any of the side deliver the smashing blow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980 View Post
The red colored texts mean that the witches' and their minions' statements are true. Uncolored text are opinions.
I would say that these can also be conclusion, deduction and even facts, though beato herself says they "may not" be the truth.
Quote:
Come to think of it, I wonder how this will be done in anime form? Red texted Japanese subtitles?
Either that, or Beato will have a "funny" voice for such lines... kinda.
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Old 2008-08-21, 03:53   Link #211
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My guess is that it'll cut to the words in red against a black screen while she says it.
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Old 2008-08-21, 04:01   Link #212
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Depends on how clever the studio doing the anime is now doesn't it?
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Old 2008-08-21, 04:06   Link #213
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Oh god, and DEEN has SUCH a great track record...
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Old 2008-08-21, 07:02   Link #214
Thisguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling01 View Post
Yeah I'm still wondering how they were able to do that
Spoiler:


Now, it must be reminded that Battler's ~ and most likely our's, too ~ prime goal is denial of magic as a whole, and to prove that all murders are done by mere humans.
Come to think about it, by denying magic we'll be getting rid of these beautiful clothes from these murderous scenes that invloves magics...

No bravery fightings, No last touching moments of lovers. No Stake Sisters and Siesta too.

There waits us will be hidous scenes where brothers killing each other and their children for their own benefit, and Beatrice won't be there to take accusation of crimes.
... and, to make it worse, that'll be where we'll be heading in Answer arcs, unless Ryu-chan decides to make hell of twist to story.

EP3 made me realise this, and I now actually think it might be a good idea to surrender to Beato.
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Old 2008-08-21, 07:12   Link #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisguy View Post
EP3 made me realise this, and I now actually think it might be a good idea to surrender to Beato.
Well, that's exactly what Battler suffers ever since episode 1.
Until we can prove that a 19th person (or more) that isn't a witch exists, it WILL be ugly (as it is hardly a matter of coincidence or accidents anyway. I honestly cannot understand how it would be an "accident" in the first 6 sacrifices case in ep3).

Thankfully, the cousins are absolutely unable to pull the strings considering their range of actions and alibi in the 3 episodes until Ryukishi is just reversing more cuckoo twists.
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Old 2008-08-21, 07:28   Link #216
Apathy
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So, if I'm understanding this:

Schrodinger's cat theory: there are several things which could be true, based on probability (in the experiment, whether the element decays or not). As long as the true state of affairs (whether the cat is alive or dead) is unknown, the cat is both alive and dead simultaneously due to this. It is only when one is confirmed that this one becomes truth. However, by seeking to confirm this, a person interferes with the experiment, and could have influenced it just by that.

... Ah, it's still kind of confusing to apply...

Still can't really wrap my head around probatio diabolica, other than it's 'an impossible proof'. =/ These things seem a bit over my head...
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Old 2008-08-21, 07:45   Link #217
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Correct. The theory implies that the cat is simultaneously alive and dead.
If it was the "probatio diabolica", it would be "the cat is alive until you prove it is dead!" which is used when you have absolutely no mean to prove it (vice versa, you can claim the cat is dead until there is a proof it is alive).

The theory makes the vision far much more broad in such case, and observations and random applications/interventions might change the outcome/result the observer seeked for.
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Old 2008-08-21, 08:20   Link #218
Apathy
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The difference being that there's a way to prove it (or a way to prove it without contradicting the situation) with Schrodinger's, but not the probation diabolica?

... I sort of get Schrodinger's cat now. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

It seems to be more applicable to Higurashi, in any case? Well, pertaining to Rika/Bernkastel's view about 'a single piece changing the outcome of a world', or the various observations or actions that can lead to certain outcomes. Actually, there was a reference to Schrodinger in one of Bernkastel's poems, wasn't there? Although I really don't know if it's significant at all...
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Old 2008-08-21, 10:33   Link #219
Sterling01
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Originally Posted by tobiast88 View Post
Oh god, and DEEN has SUCH a great track record...
Well the good thing is DEEN might not be doing it
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Old 2008-08-21, 13:54   Link #220
Kets
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What happened to Kumasawa and what's the bear theory?
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