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Old 2008-08-25, 20:22   Link #2021
FoxxFireArt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite_Coke View Post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...72#post1834172

I get some doubts about Marianne.

Also btw, in the Anya&C.C. scene inside the Moldred, did Marianne say "Kallen" in her last line? The Sub doesn't say so, but I'm sure I heard "Kallen". Maybe a Japanese speaker could enlighten us?
You know I thought the very same thing. That really confused me at first. How would MariAnya know about Kallen. It ws explained to me that she was just talking about Lelouch and saving him as well.
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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
Question! If the "real" C.C. was locked in C's World all this time, does she or does she not remember her experiences with Lelouch as C.Chi?
I was thinking about that today as well.

While I'm much more of a Kallen fan I don't want C.C. to die.
I'm concerned about her now though. It's now shown that she was in league with whatever Marianne had planned. She knew what he was about.
C.C. has been keeping great secrets from him all that time. Marianne asked if she was still on "our" side. That implies that someone else is apart of this.
Could this plot be the reason C.C. was in the first episode watching over young Lelouch? Like a caretaker until he was ready for the plan?

It just looks really bad that she was apart of something so big that involved him and she never even told him she gave his mother a Geass. That it could implant her memories into another.

Even if C.C. was using Lelouch from the start I think she cares about him now. That's more important. I think whatever happens she will redeem herself. I just really hope it isn't some kind of death redemption. Like saving him, but sacrificing herself. I want her to live on and be happy as a mortal to live a normal life, with memories.
As much as i would like Lelouch to be with Kallen. I certainly don't want the price to be that C.C. has to die.
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Old 2008-08-25, 22:07   Link #2022
yondy
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You want a selfish person like C.C live happily?! A lot of people died because she gave Lulu a geass so he can grant her wish. Did she even care that Shirley, Euphie and the others died because that selfish wish of hers?!

C.C: screw all of you, I got my wish!
Euphie, Shirley, Mao: BITCH!
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Old 2008-08-25, 22:43   Link #2023
nanatsusaya
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Originally Posted by yondy View Post
You want a selfish person like C.C live happily?! A lot of people died because she gave Lulu a geass so he can grant her wish. Did she even care that Shirley, Euphie and the others died because that selfish wish of hers?!

C.C: screw all of you, I got my wish!
Euphie, Shirley, Mao: BITCH!
Yes I do.

If C.C. is selfish then so is Lelouch. She gave him the geass but it's up to him to use it for his purpose. And you can see that in both Euphie and Shirley case he unintentionally caused their death and regretted it later, not that he coldly sacrificed them.
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Old 2008-08-25, 22:47   Link #2024
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Originally Posted by yondy View Post
You want a selfish person like C.C live happily?! A lot of people died because she gave Lulu a geass so he can grant her wish. Did she even care that Shirley, Euphie and the others died because that selfish wish of hers?!

C.C: screw all of you, I got my wish!
Euphie, Shirley, Mao: BITCH!
I give you a gun. You shoot someone with it. Am I the only person guilty?
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Old 2008-08-25, 22:51   Link #2025
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Originally Posted by yondy View Post
You want a selfish person like C.C live happily?! A lot of people died because she gave Lulu a geass so he can grant her wish. Did she even care that Shirley, Euphie and the others died because that selfish wish of hers?!

C.C: screw all of you, I got my wish!
Euphie, Shirley, Mao: BITCH!
If she hadn't given him the Geass he would of died and this would of been one boring ass show.

I do wonder why she's been keeping the secrets about his mother from him. Now that's a big lie I hope they explain in the next episode.
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Old 2008-08-25, 22:58   Link #2026
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I wish people just STFU and stop blaming everything Lelouch does on C.C. He himself did say that even without her and her geass, he would still done the same, one way or another. Or else he'd rather die.
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Old 2008-08-25, 22:59   Link #2027
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Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt View Post
If she hadn't given him the Geass he would of died and this would of been one boring ass show.

I do wonder why she's been keeping the secrets about his mother from him. Now that's a big lie I hope they explain in the next episode.
Code Geass: The Rebellion that Never Happened
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Old 2008-08-25, 23:05   Link #2028
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
I wish people just STFU and stop blaming everything Lelouch does on C.C. He himself did say that even without her and her geass, he would still done the same or else he'd rather die.
I don't blame C.C. for everything. I'm waiting to hear what she has to say before passing judgment on her. I want to hear why she never told him about giving Marianne a Geass. That it gave her the ability to implant her mind into others. She must of known. As well as what happened with her body. Marrianne asked C.C. is she was still 'our' ally. That implies one other person. Was it Charles or was it Schneizel? It could explain why Schneizel claimed her body. I always wondered that. Also that it was Marianne who ordered the guard reduced.
Perhaps she will be able to replant her mind back into her body.

If C.C. knew about all of this, and didn't tell him. I'm willing to give her a chance to explain for all the times she's saved Lelouch. I think she does care about him from the kindness he's always shown her.
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Old 2008-08-25, 23:10   Link #2029
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I beleve that C.C.'s original plan was to go along with whatever it is Marianne is scheming about, but clearly her rejection of the chance to get her death wish granted and her reluctance to be direct about it with Marianne mean that C.C. has repeated the mistake she swore she wouldn't and fallen in love with Lelouch. I actually think Marianne is the far more manipulative and cold bitch of the two at this point, even if it didn't start out that way.
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Old 2008-08-25, 23:20   Link #2030
nanatsusaya
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Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt View Post
I don't blame C.C. for everything. I'm waiting to hear what she has to say before passing judgment on her. I want to hear why she never told him about giving Marianne a Geass. That it gave her the ability to implant her mind into others. She must of known. As well as what happened with her body. Marrianne asked C.C. is she was still 'our' ally. That implies one other person. Was it Charles or was it Schneizel? It could explain why Schneizel claimed her body. I always wondered that. Also that it was Marianne who ordered the guard reduced.
Perhaps she will be able to replant her mind back into her body.

If C.C. knew about all of this, and didn't tell him. I'm willing to give her a chance to explain for all the times she's saved Lelouch. I think she does care about him from the kindness he's always shown her.
You maybe not, but I've seen a lot of KL fans saying and hating her for that I think she never told him about her mother maybe under the request of Marianne herself, just as she trusted C.C. to watching over her children. Hell, maybe C.C. approached Lelouch in the first place because he was Marianne's son.

I see both Anya/Marianne's eyes is glowing, it's probable that her geass has come to the final stage and she too is now able to take C.C.'s code

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
I beleve that C.C.'s original plan was to go along with whatever it is Marianne is scheming about, but clearly her rejection of the chance to get her death wish granted and her reluctance to be direct about it with Marianne mean that C.C. has repeated the mistake she swore she wouldn't and fallen in love with Lelouch. I actually think Marianne is the far more manipulative and cold bitch of the two at this point, even if it didn't start out that way.
I think C.C. shutting herself is not a part of whatever she and Marianne have schemed, so Marianne asked her with the unexpected change in her relationship with Lelouch if she's still their ally. Clearly C.C. is confused by her own action so she needed time to think and make a decision before facing the real world and Lelouch again. When Marianne found C.C. in the World of C, she seemed to be deep in thought.
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Old 2008-08-25, 23:30   Link #2031
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Agreed. If anything, it will probably turn out that CC had planned to follow Marianne and co's plan. However, after spending so much time with Lelouch is was probably inevitable for her to develop feelings for him, (and hopefully vice-versa ) and these feelings are probably what threw a wrenth into the plan. Still, even if you look at it from that point of view, Marianne questioned CC why she did not allow Charles to kill her, to me this sounds as if CC has little to do with Marianne's scheme, as she came off as basically stating it would of been OK, and perhaps even ideal for CC to have died.

If anything, I don't think CC is involved nearly as deeply in this plot that we've been conspiring against her. Most likely the only real crime she has committed here is that she knew of Marianne's existence, and even this is questionable to some degree. On the other side of the coin, we can't really blame CC for not telling Lelouch. When she first met Lelouch, you have to argue with yourself where her loyalty resided. If you look at it from a different perspective, would you expect her to turn on Lelouch after being with him all this time, right after she met another Geass candidate?

There are a lot of unanswered questions regarding CC, but I'm pretty positive she will weather the storm. We can pretty much assess that CC will not die until her "true wish" is granted. This wish is debated, but personally I believe it means to receive an unconditional love from another, one arguably that Lelouch confirmed he would fulfill. However, I am also of the CC x Lulu persuasion (obviously) and a lot of this comes off as a strained bias. We should just relax and realize that we could all be completely wrong regarding everything that has happened. Undoubtedly, I suspect that no matter how big or small CC is involved in this mysterious connection with Marianne, Lelouch will most likely return backlash towards her. CC x Lulu shippers like myself can only hope redemption occurs, and not in the form of death. I am pulling for my happy ending all the way to the end.
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Old 2008-08-25, 23:31   Link #2032
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
You maybe not, but I've seen a lot of KL fans saying and hating her for that I think she never told him about her mother maybe under the request of Marianne herself, just as she trusted C.C. to watching over her children. Hell, maybe C.C. approached Lelouch in the first place because he was Marianne's son.

I see both Anya/Marianne's eyes is glowing, it's probable that her geass has come to the final stage and she too is able to take C.C.'s code



I think C.C. shutting herself is not a part of whatever she and Marianne have schemed, so Marianne asked her with the unexpected change in her relationship with Lelouch if she's still their ally. Clearly C.C. is confused with her own action so she needed time to think and make a decision before facing the real world and Lelouch again. When Marianne found C.C. in the World of C, she seemed to be deep in thought.
That's what I'm talking about. The fact Anya's eyes are glowing shows that it's an effect and not the actual Geass. Like when Suzaku's "Live On" Geass activates. Anya is just a girl who was used to house Marianne's mind. It's Marianne who has the Geass power. Her ability might have been that she can transfer her mind into someone else and then transfer it back.
I think C.C. started out involved in this plot, but the kindness Lelouch showed her gave her second thoughts. Now she really care for him.

I saw Marianne say "OUR" ally. She didn't say Lelouch. If he was in on it why did C.C. hide it. Far as I know right now she could of meant Lelouch and there is a very good reason C.C. never told him she gave his mother a Geass.
I just think that Schneizel being involved would explain why he claimed her body. So they couldn't bury her and maybe repair he damage from the bullets and she can place her mind back in her body.

I'm wondering if Marianne's body could be on the Avalon. In the tale of King Arther Avalon was the resting place of the dead. It's where Merlin took King Arther after he died.

I think no matter what the plan was C.C. will save Lelouch and hopefully get free with him.
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Old 2008-08-25, 23:55   Link #2033
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
I wish people just STFU and stop blaming everything Lelouch does on C.C. He himself did say that even without her and her geass, he would still done the same, one way or another. Or else he'd rather die.
No, I'm not blaming it entirely on C.C only, Lulu is guilty as well that's why he doesn't deserve a happy ending too. My point is C.C is moe, hot, tragic character, and a selfish one. I just can't imagine someone like her enjoying their lives after all this while others have suffered because of her decision to give Lulu a geass. Wether Lulu would become a mass murderer or not with or without a geass, doesn't change the fact that C.C have been a selfish person since S1.

OT: I'm a fan of Michael Jordan but I can't deny the fact he was an asshole to his teammates and deserved a slap in the face at least once.

Last edited by yondy; 2008-08-26 at 00:09.
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Old 2008-08-26, 00:39   Link #2034
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Originally Posted by yondy View Post
No, I'm not blaming it entirely on C.C only, Lulu is guilty as well that's why he doesn't deserve a happy ending too. My point is C.C is moe, hot, tragic character, and a selfish one. I just can't imagine someone like her enjoying their lives after all this while others have suffered because of her decision to give Lulu a geass. Wether Lulu would become a mass murderer or not with or without a geass, doesn't change the fact that C.C have been a selfish person since S1.

OT: I'm a fan of Michael Jordan but I can't deny the fact he was an asshole to his teammates and deserved a slap in the face at least once.
Ok, so she should stand there silently and let zero be killed by the britinia and let them capture her again to do experiment? AND she doesnt force the geass power down zero's throat, it is his choice of whether to accept it or not. Plus she doesnt talk into his ears to do this and that, every actions of zero has been done willingly by him alone. And if she is guilty of giving the power to zero, then I gues every legal gun dealers should be trial for the deaths cause by those guns. Heck, every kitchen's knives stores should be closed because people buy those knives to stab human, not animal on the cutboard. And do we forgot that she has to carry the burden of immortality because she was tricked by the only person that had given her hope and love (the NUN) when she was still a slave child at the bottom of society. Depending on how the next episodes reveal about her and Mariane's plan, I will take another look at her again. And you know what, the NUN had been selfish but she still got a happy ending, getting her wish to die, so I can also imagine CC gets a happy ending in her own way. Given how Codegeass is not some show where there is a clear black and white but quite realistic, every character has a chance to get a good end. I can already imagine CC stand in the field where Mariane, Charles and VV are in the flash back. But this time only she and Zero stand there and live their peaceful lives for ever.
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Old 2008-08-26, 00:47   Link #2035
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Ok, so she should stand there silently and let zero be killed by the britinia and let them capture her again to do experiment? AND she doesnt force the geass power down zero's throat, it is his choice of whether to accept it or not. Plus she doesnt talk into his ears to do this and that, every actions of zero has been done willingly by him alone. And if she is guilty of giving the power to zero, then I gues every legal gun dealers should be trial for the deaths cause by those guns. Heck, every kitchen's knives stores should be closed because people buy those knives to stab human, not animal on the cutboard. And do we forgot that she has to carry the burden of immortality because she was tricked by the only person that had given her hope and love (the NUN) when she was still a slave child at the bottom of society. Depending on how the next episodes reveal about her and Mariane's plan, I will take another look at her again. And you know what, the NUN had been selfish but she still got a happy ending, getting her wish to die, so I can also imagine CC gets a happy ending in her own way. Given how Codegeass is not some show where there is a clear black and white but quite realistic, every character has a chance to get a good end. I can already imagine CC stand in the field where Mariane, Charles and VV are in the flash back. But this time only she and Zero stand there and live their peaceful lives for ever.
Again, she gave Lulu a geass to fulfill the contract, she doesn't care what Lulu would do to it. It's like giving someone a gun not even considering what he would do to it later on just to get your wish, and just observe while he shoots some people.

An ideal ending for C.C is to redeem herself, like sacrificing her life for Lulu, and removing the cursed geass from him. She lived long enough and spend some happy days with Lulu, that's more than enough for her. Lulu actually saying I love you to her before she die would be a bonus one for her. But living with Lulu like a happy family would be unfair for all of those people who suffered from geass.

Look, if you think she deserve a happy ending good for you.
For me, no, she doesn't deserve one, that includes Lulu, Charles, and Nina. They all contributed to this mess, it doesn't matter who started it all or who contributed the most.

Last edited by yondy; 2008-08-26 at 01:16.
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Old 2008-08-26, 00:52   Link #2036
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Look, if you think she deserve a happy ending good for you.
For me, no, she doesn't deserve one, that includes Lulu, Charles, and Nina. They all contributed to this mess.
Fine with me. And if you include who contributed to the mess, it will be a much longer list then just zero, CC, emperor and nina. Most of characters in this show has their own plan or goal that more or less, direct or indirect lead to the current situation.
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Old 2008-08-26, 00:54   Link #2037
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Fine with me. And if you include who contributed to the mess, it will be a much longer list then just zero, CC, emperor and nina. Most of characters in this show has their own plan or goal that more or less, direct or indirect lead to the current situation.
I think even if she was a part of this plan she should get a happy ending.
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Old 2008-08-26, 02:01   Link #2038
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I think even if she was a part of this plan she should get a happy ending.
Me too..There's a reason why she is so twisted... remember her past? It was so sad..not only was she a slave that knew nothing of love, (remember memory wiped C.C was saying I never had parents, siblings, friends) and plus the only person she trusted was that nun.. and she screwed her over...

I dont know why but I think there is a reason why they introduced memory wiped C.C to us, and as much as I hate it, I think she will be back..I mean what the hell was the point of her?

I hope I am wrong though..
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Old 2008-08-26, 06:16   Link #2039
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The nearsightedness in this thread is baffling, downright baffling. It seems all people do is bounce from one rediculous extreme to the other.

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Originally Posted by yondy View Post
You want a selfish person like C.C live happily?! A lot of people died because she gave Lulu a geass so he can grant her wish. Did she even care that Shirley, Euphie and the others died because that selfish wish of hers?!

C.C: screw all of you, I got my wish!
Euphie, Shirley, Mao: BITCH!
A bit much, it is never right to deny a person happiness, what is more in question is do they deserve that happiness. For some people the answer is yes, for others its no, and for those with eyes in their head its 'maybe, depends on the conditions'.

Quite simply, her receiving an unconditional happy ending (memories, mortality, and desire fulfilled) would be hopelessly anti-climactic and insulting to every character who's corpse she's stepped over to get her wish(es). No matter her final decision, her actions in the past bar her from (rightfully) deserving a perfect ending. Does that mean she won't get it? No, but it would be a bit of a stretch to give it to her.

The reverse is true, she does not deserve to burn in the proverbial fires of hell. She suffered and her decisions have been warped by it to seek her contract (though, arguably, the moment she starts questioning her contract she does in a way invalidate all the people she's stepped over for her original contract because she herself would not allow herself to be loved. So its hardly a boon but we'll skip this.)

She does not deserve to lose everything, or more her original self does not. The ten-year old that was a victim of circumstances is as innocent as Anya in this, just an unwitting victim of Geass. The elder C.C., on the other hand, does not really deserve to have everything given to her without a price. From here we get my personal belief that she will have both wishes granted simultaneously. I find it very likely, that the 10-yer old C.C. is what we might get after this upcoming episode.

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Yes I do.

If C.C. is selfish then so is Lelouch. She gave him the geass but it's up to him to use it for his purpose. And you can see that in both Euphie and Shirley case he unintentionally caused their death and regretted it later, not that he coldly sacrificed them.
Your example falls after the first hurdle with a firepocker sticking out of its head. Lelouch's initial use of Geass was a reaction of survival, any person would have done the same, from there every use was based on false pretenses to which C.C. did have the answers and the truth.

I'm quite certain Lelouch regretted what happened to Euphemia and Shirley the moment it occured. He was broken by both. I do, however, recall a certain Mao getting shot because he was simply in the way though.

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I give you a gun. You shoot someone with it. Am I the only person guilty?
If I give you a gun and don't tell you that the person breaking into your home is actually your father who forgot his keys and you shot him, who's guilty here? Both, one for pulling the trigger, and one for not disclosing important, situation altering information. Suffice to say, the manipulator is usually the one held more culpable than the unwitting puppet.

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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
I wish people just STFU and stop blaming everything Lelouch does on C.C. He himself did say that even without her and her geass, he would still done the same, one way or another. Or else he'd rather die.
He would have tried, does not mean he'd have succeeded. Without C.C. it is possible for the only casualty to be Lelouch. But this does not overlook the point that C.C. never told Lelouch the truth and allowed him to wage a war on false pretenses.

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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
You maybe not, but I've seen a lot of KL fans saying and hating her for that I think she never told him about her mother maybe under the request of Marianne herself, just as she trusted C.C. to watching over her children. Hell, maybe C.C. approached Lelouch in the first place because he was Marianne's son.
Then she clearly cares more about Marianne then she does about Lelouch.

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Originally Posted by lovecakecookies View Post
I dont know why but I think there is a reason why they introduced memory wiped C.C to us, and as much as I hate it, I think she will be back..I mean what the hell was the point of her?

I hope I am wrong though..
I think you're on the right track as to why C.C.'s little form was introduced. They simply wrote off the older C.C. for five episodes and then suddenly brought her back. That's rarely a good sign.
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Old 2008-08-26, 06:22   Link #2040
Narona
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The nearsightedness in this thread is baffling, downright baffling. It seems all people do is bounce from one rediculous extreme to the other.
What a crap comment <_<
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