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Old 2008-08-26, 15:27   Link #241
Royal_Devil
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post

The problem I have with English VA's are:

1 Most of them do not watch Anime or read Manga so they don't care about the role.
I've seen enough interviews to know the actors on Bleach do care about the anime they perform in. You can make some BS up that they're lying, but anime doesn't pay enough to make someone want to do it unless they have some personal liking for it.

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2 they can't act. They either talk in dead dry monotone or they are shrill and annoying, or they overact and everything sounds campy.
seiyuu are infamous for overacting. I don't hear you complaining.

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3 they can't act. We tend to get has and never was-been's. Unless it's a Disney or Pixar film we get actors who depend on expressions and gestures, and cannot do it with voice alone. In Japan it's a respected craft, so the acting is quality.
The thing with Disney and Pixar, is that the animations are done AFTER the voice acting. Same with American cartoons. In other words it's tailor-made for the actors and they have free range to do whatever they want to help the performance because the animation will be modified to fit. No such luxury when everything's already animated and you need to make a script that makes sense and doesn't leave the characters' mouths moving like in Godzilla. dubs actually do this better than most Japanese productions unless they have a good enough budget. Make no mistake, dubbing a foreign product anywhere in the world is the most difficult form of voice acting. Not even Hollywood level actors are always cutout for them. Miyazaki dubs show they can be either really good or really bad.

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4. Their pronunciation is horrible. It is to me, even if it doesn't bother you. You had to have heard it. It just doesn't get on your nerves like it does mine.
It doesn't get on my nerves because I don't want to have double standards. If I tolerate engrish then I can tolerate the opposite. Neither is perfect and to say otherwise is hypocritical. I've heard good English from Japan and I've heard bad. I've heard good Japanese in English and bad Japanese.

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The only dub I have ever seen that was actually better than the original was the Full Metal Panic! English dub. They really picked a star cast for that one. The original Japanese voice actors are so unemotive it's painful to listen to.
I would recommend the Desert Punk, Hellsing (the commentary for this basically disproves OD's accusations of not caring), Black Lagoon, FLCL, IMyMe Strawberry Eggs, Princess Tutu, and Heat Guy J dubs.
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Old 2008-08-26, 15:36   Link #242
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
They don't sound natural when saying the names. I don't speak it but it's all I have watched for the past 7 years. I can tell accented Japanese, proper and improper. If it's an Osaka dialect. (Kansa Ben is only one of em).
For instance Ichigo is the only one who pronounces Zangetsu -Zangets. Everyone else says Zan-get-su. So it's not like I can't tell the difference.
I have been watching subbed animes for only a year, and I can tell the difference between the different dialects, can pronounce the names properly and even picked up one some Japanese (well, mostly from dramas because anime Japanese is so effed up, but some from anime too).

If the English VA's spent like, 1 week watching their anime in the original language, I bet they would do a bit better.


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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
The problem I have with English VA's are:

1 Most of them do not watch Anime or read Manga so they don't care about the role.
It's like playing Romeo and Juliet when you've never heard of Shakespeare.

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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
2 they can't act. They either talk in dead dry monotone or they are shrill and annoying, or they overact and everything sounds campy.
YES, this is the most annoying thing about dubs. They speak like they have some sort of mental disorder (not trying to offend those so really do ), are plain bored, or like they are commenting on a golf game.

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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
4. Their pronunciation is horrible. It is to me, even if it doesn't bother you. You had to have heard it. It just doesn't get on your nerves like it does mine.
This is my personal pet peeve too. It irritates me that they cannot be bothered to spend the time to learn how to pronounce the names correctly. Honestly, it takes about a minute to learn.
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Old 2008-08-26, 15:45   Link #243
Royal_Devil
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definitely needs an accent, he speaks like a proper Englishmen I swear...you can give him the Southern accent, you just don't have to go overboard w/ it, like Kitsune from Love Hina
Take from someone surrounded by Southern accents of all kinds, there is nothing Gin-ish about any of them. Oh he'd sound less sophisticated like he's supposed to but there would be none of the intimidation and creepiness of the original. It's basically half and half. Either an accent with no "stab you with a smile" feel to it or a "stab you with a smile" feel without an accent.

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Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
If the English VA's spent like, 1 week watching their anime in the original language, I bet they would do a bit better.
You realize this can be a dubs biggest liability right? Often, they are discouraged from watching the original because then they get in their heads that they have to sound like that. So they end up trying too hard to imitate instead of act and it sounds even worse and more unnatural (which you claim to not want).

I seriously wonder, if a seiyuu for the show up and died and had to be replaced, would you people be this hard on his replacement?
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:05   Link #244
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
I've seen enough interviews to know the actors on Bleach do care about the anime they perform in. You can make some BS up that they're lying, but anime doesn't pay enough to make someone want to do it unless they have some personal liking for it.



seiyuu are infamous for overacting.
Ishida'a voice actor disdains anime in general. It's a side-job. His "Real Job" was architecture.(<--something in that field) He refused to do other voices because it would take away from his "Real Job" at the start of Bleach JYB did not read Bleach nor had he heard about it. He didn't find out till he went for the part. That was said months before the english release. A lot had those attitudes.

I didn't say that no Japanese actors didn't overact? There are one or two.
However you can't deny that the Japaneses is better at it. When I watch a sub the excitement and intensity is amazing. it's not the same in English.

Bleach sucks...Did you hear Gai-Sensei's voice on Naruto? Cringe-worthy.
Adult Swim is called that but all the adult themes are edited. Why don't they just call it TEENAGE SWIM?! Dubbers censor...I HATE THAT MOST OF ALL!

My family rues the day I discovered anime. Even they complain if it's in English.

Cowboy Be-bop I saw in english. I liked it just fine. It was a great dub!
Samurai Champloo was better in subs (I watch both versions because it's not fair to compare them without doing so)

Great dubs are rare. Japanese subs are better. The commands sound cooler. I like the way they pronounce certain words...

Er, Devil why are you so mad because I hate dubs? They suck imo, if you like them that's cool...


We will finish later ...Sorry but the Democratic Convention is starting and I don't want to miss it.

(A vote for McCain IS NOT a vote for Hillary *PSST!* Hillary is a democrat)
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:13   Link #245
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
I seriously wonder, if a seiyuu for the show up and died and had to be replaced, would you people be this hard on his replacement?
If the replacement sucks, then yeah.

What's wrong with hating dubs? O_O Everyone's liable to their own opinion
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:19   Link #246
Royal_Devil
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Ishida'a voice actor disdains anime in general. It's a side-job. His "Real Job" was architecture.(<--something in that field) He refused to do other voices because it would take away from his "Real Job" at the start of Bleach JYB did not read Bleach nor had he heard about it. He didn't find out till he went for the part. That was said months before the english release. A lot had those attitudes.
Bosch rarely does it for many of his roles. Doesn't stop him from putting on good performances in a number of anime (Heat Guy J, Wolf's Rain, and Trigun in particular). It really comes down to the director to get a good performance out of someone. And really, I don't see much wrong with how he portrays Ichigo. Then again, I despise Ichigo as a character so maybe that made me care less.

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Did you hear Gai-Sensei's voice on Naruto? Cringe-worthy.
What are you on? Skip's awesome as Gai. It's even more awesome that he can discuss it with us on Narutofan. Same with a number of people on the Naruto cast, particularly Kyle (who does Aizen and Ganju and also posts at BA), Liam (Ukitake, Sora, and that sixth division guy that idolizes Renji), hell even Maile (Naruto himself).

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Cowboy Be-bop I saw in english. I liked it just fine. It was a great dub!
What always makes Bebop the exception? I've heard better performances from those actors in other works. I've seen dubs with more accurate scripts. So what's the thing that makes this the exception?

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Er, Devil why are you so mad because I hate dubs? They suck imo, if you like them that's cool...
Who said I was mad?

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If the replacement sucks, then yeah.
How would you determine he or she sucks if the Japanese do voice acting as well as you claim them to?

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What's wrong with hating dubs? O_O Everyone's liable to their own opinion
It's not the hate I have a problem with, it's making broad blanket statements and treating the Japanese like some imperfect people who can do no wrong. Not to mention making claims about acting on both sides that are often not true (saying only one side sounds unnatural for example). I don't claim to know everything, most of what I've said is repeated from people in a position to know these things.

In fact, that reminds me of something I forgot to point out.

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In Japan it's a respected craft, so the acting is quality.
Only among anime otaku and the anime industry though. Otherwise, they're not really treated all that differently from here. Hell, Miyazaki refuses to use them in his works, instead opting for bigger Japanese celebrities. To the general public, seiyuu aren't anything special, believe it or not.
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:27   Link #247
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
Bosch rarely does it for many of his roles. Doesn't stop him from putting on good

Who said I was mad?
Sorry if I misconstrued it but the tone of your post is "Disgusted" Maybe it's not directed at me but directed at what you think is stupid bias against subs?

I hated his Vash too...

As soon as I played it the first dubbed episode. My mother said "Why does Ichigo sound like a Power Ranger? The one I hated..." I think his acting sucks...I hated him since I first saw him
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:31   Link #248
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
How would you determine he or she sucks if the Japanese do voice acting as well as you claim them to?
I never said the Japanese are all good VA's. Take Naruto for an example. I hate his voice in either language.

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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
It's not the hate I have a problem with, it's making broad blanket statements and treating the Japanese like some imperfect people who can do no wrong. Not to mention making claims about acting on both sides that are often not true (saying only one side sounds unnatural for example). There will always be nuances in a foreign language you can't get without at least a thorough understanding. I don't claim to, most of what I've said is repeated from people in a position to know these things.
Again, I never said that the Japanese are godly people without any flaws at all.
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:34   Link #249
Nervous Venus
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil
I seriously wonder, if a seiyuu for the show up and died and had to be replaced, would you people be this hard on his replacement?
Going with Michiru on this one: If the replacement sucks, or doesn't do the role justice, then yes. Those were my sentiments while watching the last episode of Honey and Clover 2, when Takemoto's seiyuu was replaced with someone else due to an illness (??).

The Bleach dubs don't sound so bad to me. I prefer Japanese, but I understand the language enough not to need dubs. Also the English script sounds corny to me, but that's just personal bias.
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:38   Link #250
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by Nervous Venus View Post
The Bleach dubs don't sound so bad to me. I prefer Japanese, but I understand the language enough not to need dubs. Also the English script sounds corny to me, but that's just personal bias.
I agree: the Japanese dialogs sound deeper, and more poetic in a way, while the English version just dumbs everything down most of the time.
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:40   Link #251
Royal_Devil
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Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
Again, I never said that the Japanese are godly people without any flaws at all.
Yet you've yet to address any of the flaws I've put up with more than a meh or a shrug yet can rant on and on when the same flaws come from English VAs.

And I'd still like to know the credentials for a seiyuu sucking as a replacement besides not being the original actor.

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Maybe it's not directed at me but directed at what you think is stupid bias against subs?
I haven't seen any stupid bias against subs here.

And someone please tell me why Bebop's dub is the best? I wouldn't even put it in the top 10.

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I agree: the Japanese dialogs sound deeper, and more poetic in a way, while the English version just dumbs everything down most of the time.
Just say you like the Japanese language more than English. That's basically where all your posts are pointing to and would have saved both of us a lot of typing.
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:41   Link #252
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
I never said the Japanese are all good VA's. Take Naruto for an example. I hate his voice in either language.



Again, I never said that the Japanese are godly people without any flaws at all.
I like his voice in both. I think it's very fitting. I like Rukia's voice in either language. Just like I prefer Inuyasha's voice in subs
. (Dem convention didn't start just yet. They are just discussing those bullshit polls) :
I started out a dubbie. When I started watching Inuyasha CN picked the first 20 episodes and played them to death. I got impatient and while I was ranting my boyfriend said you can get the subbed. So I got it. I hated it and it sounded like gibberish. CN began airing new seasons...I was excited but to my horror. I could no longer stand dubs. The "Ye"'s drove me nuts. They are in feudal Japan and not England!!! Another thing I noticed was Kappei Yamaguchi spoke as if he was barking like a dog. He growled in-between-words. The english VA did not do that ...

That was the point in which I realized subs were better than dubs . Every dub I see I get the sub if I can and compare them. Only few were as good as , and none were better than their Japanese Counterparts.

Gai-Sensei made me cry...literally when I heard him in English. I cry every time I watch the Bleach dub.

Last edited by BleachOD; 2008-08-26 at 16:43. Reason: subs were better than dubs
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:48   Link #253
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Originally Posted by Bleach_OD
That was the point in which I realized subs were better than dubs .
That's not true. And neither is the statement "Dubs are better than subs". I think it all boils down to our personal preferences.
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:54   Link #254
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
I like his voice in both. I think it's very fitting. I like Rukia's voice in either language. Just like I prefer Inuyasha's voice in subs
. (Dem convention didn't start just yet. They are just discussing those bullshit polls) :
I started out a dubbie. When I started watching Inuyasha CN picked the first 20 episodes and played them to death. I got impatient and while I was ranting my boyfriend said you can get the subbed. So I got it. I hated it and it sounded like gibberish. CN began airing new seasons...I was excited but to my horror. I could no longer stand dubs. The "Ye"'s drove me nuts. They are in feudal Japan and not England!!! Another thing I noticed was Kappei Yamaguchi spoke as if he was barking like a dog. He growled in-between-words. The english VA did not do that ...

That was the point in which I realized subs were better than dubs . Every dub I see I get the sub if I can and compare them. Only few were as good as , and none were better than their Japanese Counterparts.

Gai-Sensei made me cry...literally when I heard him in English. I cry every time I watch the Bleach dub.
don't forget to mention the DBZ dub XD my god.. their voices are so annoying... everyone except Vegita and piccilo sounded so childish and squeeky it hurt my ears. the English DBZ is way better in all espec.

now back to Bleach lol

I think Kenpachi and Pinky's voice acters are good but not a good as the japanese. atleast they didnt get Arnald to do Kenpachi XD
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:01   Link #255
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by Nervous Venus View Post
That's not true. And neither is the statement "Dubs are better than subs". I think it all boils down to our personal preferences.
It is true to one who believes it. subs are better in my opinion
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:02   Link #256
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don't forget to mention the DBZ dub XD my god.. their voices are so annoying... everyone except Vegita and piccilo sounded so childish and squeeky it hurt my ears. the English DBZ is way better in all espec.
What is "espec", Kyero?
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:12   Link #257
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The sounding corny excuse has always seemed a case of finally realizing how odd it is for anyone to say such a thing. And Bleach is filled with cheese and corn in the manga alone.

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Gai-Sensei made me cry...literally when I heard him in English. I cry every time I watch the Bleach dub.
Gai is one of those cases where you now understand everything and what it must be like for a Japanese person watching him. Because the performances are virtually identical, you just understand English better and can pick it apart while remaining blissfully ignorant as to how you'd probably get the same reaction if you understood Japanese.

The best example of this is Excel Saga, where you can now understand just how annoying she is supposed to be to the viewer.

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and none were better than their Japanese Counterparts.
I take it you've never seen Black Lagoon, Hellsing, or Desert Punk then? Hell, even Berserk but the Japanese version sucked in the first place with that. And in the case of the first two listed, I don't see how anyone can say the Japanese actors sound more natural when people of the characters' ethnicity or country of origin are the ones dubbing them (with the exception of Rock in BL)
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:32   Link #258
Hari Michiru
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And I'd still like to know the credentials for a seiyuu sucking as a replacement besides not being the original actor.
If they can't match the original tone of voice, with the right attitude, then they suck. They ARE replacements, after all, so they have to match up to the original.

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Just say you like the Japanese language more than English. That's basically where all your posts are pointing to and would have saved both of us a lot of typing.
The subs put them nicely, and those are in English. They just have to change it a little bit and make good VA's say them and then, bam! it's a better dub.
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:40   Link #259
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The subs put them nicely, and those are in English.
Or you think they put them nicely. Shounen is generally very corny. That's the nature of the medium. I don't know why you think it's such a bad thing. Young boys like corny stuff and that's what Shounen Jump caters to. Death Note is really the only exception to this and even it had its moments.

My favorite example is "I'll never forgive you!" Sounds weak and cheesy in English no matter how you get it across yet the phrase holds deeper meaning to the Japanese. Hell, I never liked it when someone said that in a serious situation until I learned of the background and even now I have to remind myself "it works if you're Japanese."

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They just have to change it a little bit and make good VA's say them and then, bam! it's a better dub.
By this, you just mean better, not good correct?
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:59   Link #260
Nervous Venus
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Originally Posted by Royal Devil
The sounding corny excuse has always seemed a case of finally realizing how odd it is for anyone to say such a thing. And Bleach is filled with cheese and corn in the manga alone.
We'd be hailing back to the culture argument. It sounds good in Japanese, if you know where it's coming from (like you mentioned). However, I have to agree that BLEACH is filled with muchos x 100 cheese. People just get distracted by all the swinging swords and occasional breasts.
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