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Old 2008-08-25, 09:28   Link #1021
Inanimated_object
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@ sumowow
Spoiler for Cover?:
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Old 2008-08-25, 10:38   Link #1022
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Originally Posted by Inanimated_object View Post
@ sumowow
Spoiler for Cover?:
I could see how that might create problems for publishers in any country, even Japan.
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Old 2008-08-25, 11:19   Link #1023
sumowow
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Originally Posted by Inanimated_object View Post
@ sumowow
Spoiler for Cover?:
The thing is, im not sure which cover was the chapter 40 one. I just wanted to see it. It looks very controversial so i can understand why they don't put it up on onemanga. Thanks, i appreciate it.
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Old 2008-08-25, 12:20   Link #1024
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LOL@cover, "Pedobear" in a strategic position.

Anyway, why does Kuro-chan hate it when Aoki exposes her forehead? Well, I'm glad though that Aoki finally has a countermove against her.
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Old 2008-08-25, 17:57   Link #1025
sumowow
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Originally Posted by CaptGloval View Post
LOL@cover, "Pedobear" in a strategic position.

Anyway, why does Kuro-chan hate it when Aoki exposes her forehead? Well, I'm glad though that Aoki finally has a countermove against her.
It's probably the same thing with ino from naruto. She has a huge forehead and everyone makes fun of it, but with kuro it seems the hair covers hers up. Also would kuro-chan be thought of as having a napoleon complex?

Edit: Also isn't the clothes they're wearing a little too risque? I mean for crying out loud kuro-chan is wearing a thong. Isn't this enough for watashiya to get into trouble?

Last edited by sumowow; 2008-08-25 at 23:05.
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Old 2008-08-26, 07:20   Link #1026
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Cover FIGHTO, i never got why a thong would be sexually more offensive than wearing nothin lol? would it be better if she would be naked on the cover?!
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Old 2008-08-26, 08:48   Link #1027
sumowow
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Originally Posted by LeaD36 View Post
Cover FIGHTO, i never got why a thong would be sexually more offensive than wearing nothin lol? would it be better if she would be naked on the cover?!
Actually it's more of the fact that they're usually naked on the inside of the manga, and the outside they're usually wearing clothes. Or did i miss something? Oh well i guess its no holds barred since it got cancelled in the US.
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Old 2008-08-26, 15:51   Link #1028
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Originally Posted by sumowow View Post
Actually it's more of the fact that they're usually naked on the inside of the manga, and the outside they're usually wearing clothes. Or did i miss something? Oh well i guess its no holds barred since it got cancelled in the US.
On that note, I wonder if K-no-Jikan would get the green light in the EU zone, where nudity in advertisement and public use is much more liberal. Maybe, maybe not.
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:35   Link #1029
sumowow
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Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector View Post
On that note, I wonder if K-no-Jikan would get the green light in the EU zone, where nudity in advertisement and public use is much more liberal. Maybe, maybe not.
I don't know, but probably not. Considering that it got canceled for being loli nudity instead of just the nudity.
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:45   Link #1030
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector View Post
On that note, I wonder if K-no-Jikan would get the green light in the EU zone, where nudity in advertisement and public use is much more liberal. Maybe, maybe not.
We're more liberal, but not we're not goddamn pedos. I don't think that kind of cover, with naked children, would get green-lighted. And, uh, at least in France and in Belgium, pedophilia's a bit of a touchy subject these years.
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Old 2008-08-27, 04:57   Link #1031
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
We're more liberal, but not we're not goddamn pedos. I don't think that kind of cover, with naked children, would get green-lighted. And, uh, at least in France and in Belgium, pedophilia's a bit of a touchy subject these years.
Does reading Harry Potter makes you a real Wizard?
Does seeing 24 (with Jack Baueur) makes you a killer?
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Old 2008-08-27, 07:24   Link #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
We're more liberal, but not we're not goddamn pedos. I don't think that kind of cover, with naked children, would get green-lighted. And, uh, at least in France and in Belgium, pedophilia's a bit of a touchy subject these years.
?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector View Post
On that note, I wonder if K-no-Jikan would get the green light in the EU zone, where nudity in advertisement and public use is much more liberal. Maybe, maybe not.
In france mb lol, for sure not here in hungary ><
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Old 2008-08-27, 15:16   Link #1033
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Franckisted View Post
Does reading Harry Potter makes you a real Wizard?
Does seeing 24 (with Jack Baueur) makes you a killer?
What does that have to do with anything?

I'm talking about our societal taboos. While we can show breasts to advertise shampoo, and we occasionally see naked children in the news without the censors going apeshit, I think a series linking kids and sexuality as much as KnJ does, and showing so many naked children, especially on the goddamn covers, would be a bit much, even for us.

You think those taboos are irrational? Fine, you're entitled to your opinion.
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Old 2008-08-27, 16:10   Link #1034
Franckisted
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It's pretty clear though.

Quote:
we're not goddamn pedos
is what you told, correct?
Sorry to disapoint you, but viewing/reading about lolikon anime/manga doesn't makes you a "pedo", just like viewing/reading harry potter and 24 doesn't makes you a wizard and a killer.

So watching KnJ doesn't makes you a pedo.

Quote:
You think those taboos are irrational? Fine, you're entitled to your opinion.
By the way... yes I think. BUT that wasn't what I was talking about. I was reffering to the word "pedo" of yours.
But now that you talk about that.
A children is a human being, she/he has a gender (male or female), like anybody else in this society, stop talking about children like asexual beings. ( don't know if it's the correct word, but some people think that children don't have a specific gender until they goes to puberty.)
I'm against forcing children to do things they don't want of course, I think someone who does something like that must have... capital punishment. (I tell you that, just so you don't misunderstand me)

But, I'm also against people who doesn't go as far as their own nose.
Like I said, whats the difference between watching:

1- Harry Potter?
2- KnJ
3- 24
4- A movie with a serial killer.

All is FICTIVE, nothing is real.
Does watching those makes you: a pedo? a killer? a wizard?

Why do you have to tell "pedo" when you watch a lolikon anime, but not "killer" when you watch a movie about a killer?
It's all the same thing.

Now when we see a pedo we tell "it's KnJ fault/ it's anime fault"
But... when we see a killer, why don't we tell the same thing?

But, the 2 things (pedophilia and killing) are forbidden by the law...
So... I'm outraged when I learn that KnJ got canceled, and that we can watch other things with murders, serial killers etc... freely, without nobody telling anything about it!
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Old 2008-08-27, 17:00   Link #1035
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Franckisted View Post
It's pretty clear though.



is what you told, correct?
Yes. I was writing hyperbolically of the statement that we're more liberal, and that KnJ could thus be OK in Europe. In effect, I was saying "Yes, we're more liberal when it comes to nudity. But not that liberal."

Quote:
Sorry to disapoint you, but viewing/reading about lolikon anime/manga doesn't makes you a "pedo", just like viewing/reading harry potter and 24 doesn't makes you a wizard and a killer.
I know. However, the stigma associated with it remains. Why do we tolerate live action simulated violence more easily than animated or drawn child pornography? I don't know, but that's the way things are.

Quote:
So watching KnJ doesn't makes you a pedo.



By the way... yes I think. BUT that wasn't what I was talking about. I was reffering to the word "pedo" of yours.
But now that you talk about that.
A children is a human being, she/he has a gender (male or female), like anybody else in this society, stop talking about children like asexual beings. ( don't know if it's the correct word, but some people think that children don't have a specific gender until they goes to puberty.)
I'm against forcing children to do things they don't want of course, I think someone who does something like that must have... capital punishment. (I tell you that, just so you don't misunderstand me)
So... In other words, you're for sex with children, as long as they're consenting? Either I'm not the only one having trouble formulating my thoughts, or we really have nothing to tell each other.

Quote:
But, I'm also against people who doesn't go as far as their own nose.
Like I said, whats the difference between watching:

1- Harry Potter?
2- KnJ
3- 24
4- A movie with a serial killer.

All is FICTIVE, nothing is real.
Does watching those makes you: a pedo? a killer? a wizard?
Nobody here cares if a kid reads Harry Potter. But we don't want young children to watch violent movies or TV shows. Or violent news. And we don't want anybody to indulge in child pornography, even fictive. It's not entirely about logic, but about feelings. Though wanting to protect children from violent media may actually be grounded in science.

Quote:
Why do you have to tell "pedo" when you watch a lolikon anime, but not "killer" when you watch a movie about a killer?
It's all the same thing.

Now when we see a pedo we tell "it's KnJ fault/ it's anime fault"
But... when we see a killer, why don't we tell the same thing?
Actually, yes. We're pretty prompt to blame violent media. And by "we", I really mean "they". Media blaming isn't done much around here. But I still don't think covers of naked children are going to fly. As I said, pedophilia is a bit of a touchy subject. And don't try to deny it - while KnJ is a lot more than that, it is also wank material for pedophiles, even if you or I (well, I, certainly. I can't speak for anybody else.) don't use it that way.
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Old 2008-08-27, 17:18   Link #1036
Franckisted
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Please pay attention here.
I'm talking about you using the word "pedo" AND NOTHING ELSE.


Quote:
I know. However, the stigma associated with it remains. Why do we tolerate live action simulated violence more easily than animated or drawn child pornography? I don't know, but that's the way things are.
I'm fully aware of that.


Quote:
So... In other words, you're for sex with children, as long as they're consenting? Either I'm not the only one having trouble formulating my thoughts, or we really have nothing to tell each other.
Not really. Well, maybe with Kokonoe Rin.

Joke aside... I'm not. Not until they are at least 16-18.

What I was talking about with children, is more of an understanding that other perverted things you think about.
Well, I can't seems to explain it fully.
I want to change mentality ( yea yea I know, I can't make it, i'm not "all mighty" xD) about things like "it's anime fault that they are pedo" ( Or like the thing with School Days ending also.)
KnJ got canceled because it has a loli chara, true? ok. I want to cancel 24 because it has a serial killer in it, can I? Of course not, cause it's "normal" that a killer is not influenced by 24 to kill but a pedo is influenced by KnJ ( or other loli anime...)
So what I want to tell is "just stop thinking as children can't think/act by themselves."

That's just a stupid way of thinking.


Quote:
Nobody here cares if a kid reads Harry Potter. But we don't want young children to watch violent movies or TV shows.
Huh? Then they don't watch them.
Just put KnJ at midnight... kids are in beds at this hour.

Anime is not only for kids.
Movie is not only for adults.


Quote:
And we don't want anybody to indulge in child pornography, even fictive. It's not entirely about logic, but about feelings. Though wanting to protect children from violent media may actually be grounded in science.
Personaly I think that killing is a far greater crime that showing KnJ... oh well...


Quote:
And don't try to deny it -
I will.
At least for me.
Well, it's a bit touchy for "they". I will not deny that. ^^

Quote:
while KnJ is a lot more than that, it is also wank material for pedophiles, even if you or I (well, I, certainly. I can't speak for anybody else.) don't use it that way.
Ok. I'm the same as you.
But then again, with the "material for pedophile"... "material for killers", I can just make a list of 200 000 pages with like... ALL the "american" action movies. That's just so a stupid way of thinking. ( Of course I'm not talking about yours, but whom thinking the way you describe it)


BUT.. again, all this just because I was telling you not to use the word "pedo", because watching KnJ does not makes you a pedo (and you agree with that...)

Matter closed for me.
( Yeah that's selfish, after I write all this I tell on my own that the matter is closed...)
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Old 2008-08-27, 20:51   Link #1037
Vexx
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The interesting thing lately in the US are all the crime shows (CSI, Law&Order) that are now airing plots involving pedophile crimes, telling stories about such situations. Many of them are fairly explicit and quite disturbing. Yet they air on prime time evening television and involve live actors.

Yet an animated story about a similar situation (but without violence and only potential crime) .. which is portrays a mixed bag of principles and ethics and to a large extent is a positive story about getting through such issues. Well that gets stopped dead from exportation

Literature is full of such stories written with all sorts of slants ... some of them are required reading in humanities coursework.

Last edited by Vexx; 2008-08-29 at 13:29.
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Old 2008-08-28, 15:43   Link #1038
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
without violence
Maybe that's the problem. The moral of the story isn't good if the perp isn't caught. Considering the length of KnJ, to make it acceptable, Aoki will have to light Reiji on fire, drop kick him off a high cliff onto sharp rocks, and shoot what's left. With a bazooka.

Another problem is that Kokonoe isn't exactly presented as a helpless victim, here. Or Reiji as a complete monster.
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Old 2008-08-29, 20:54   Link #1039
jigenbakuda
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Maybe that's the problem. The moral of the story isn't good if the perp isn't caught. Considering the length of KnJ, to make it acceptable, Aoki will have to light Reiji on fire, drop kick him off a high cliff onto sharp rocks, and shoot what's left. With a bazooka.

Another problem is that Kokonoe isn't exactly presented as a helpless victim, here. Or Reiji as a complete monster.
But please remember that this is an acceptable outcome from your position as a westerner. This story is japanese and adheres to japanese values. So in japan where being a pedo is not "heavily" stigmatized ...is that a real word?...(I believe most of the conformity in child abuse/ pedo worthy stuff is coming from america, I don't think its from the japanese), what needs to happens to a "pedo" in this story to make it "acceptable", may be different. (although violence is just as important to japanese as westerners, lol, this could end dragon ball Z style, lol)

Also why must the story end happily (or morally correct). This whole story could be a tragedy. It could end with reiji marrying rin against her will and making love to her before her 16th birthday, and mimi cutting her wrists because she couldn't have her true love reiji. We have no idea how the story will end up.

Aoki is just as bad as reiji "technically. Rin has seen both of their dicks (at the very least the print of aoki's dick) Aoki kissed rin (willing or not), Aoki touched rin's breasts (or lack thereof...). Now regardless of aoki's intentions, these things happened. Is he really that much better than reiji? Or is intent more important than actions? For example is it okay to touch rin's breats if you think she is a male. Is it okay to have sex with a 15 year old girl if she tells you she is 18?
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Old 2008-08-30, 03:41   Link #1040
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Also why must the story end happily
'Cause the author said so? ^^
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