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Old 2008-08-28, 03:10   Link #81
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
As for Matsumoto, in every fight she has been shown in she has acted weaker then she realy is to throw her oppent off guard. She flat out states to Kira she was not going all out vs him much to his chagrin since he was, Nakim looked to be crushing her untill it was shown that all she was doing was waiting for them to give the ok to drop the limiter and she easly got out of being stomped on by a released Nakim by blocking his foot with her arm with out straining at all before releaseing her limiter. As for the luppi fight the only time she looked remotely worried was when he brought out the spikes but Urahara took them out in seconds after that she seems to have been stalling for time again waiting for her captain to take him out.
I think she would have attacked at that moment but Urahara prevented it. I still think Haineko is wack...

then again I haven't really seen it in action since fillers don't count.
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Old 2008-08-28, 03:24   Link #82
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
I think she would have attacked at that moment but Urahara prevented it. I still think Haineko is wack...

then again I haven't really seen it in action since fillers don't count.
What do you mean whack? I think Haineko is quite useful cos it prevents it from being captured by the opponent like if someone like Luppi used his tentacles to take away Haineko, Matsumoto would simply have to call out Haineko's command then use the particles to cut the opponent. I wonder what her bankai would be if she has achieved it though.
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Old 2008-08-28, 06:35   Link #83
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Originally Posted by TeNMaN View Post
Actually, Kenpachi has shown he is very good at analyzing his opponent and seeing through their abilities. In some cases, he has made his opponent look very stupid because he has great smarts in battle. So in a way, Kenpachi does know how to strategize when fighting his opponents. Sure, he may not like fighting that way but he has shown he will do it. I think this comes from his tremendous battle experience and is also one of the things that currently separates him from Ichigo.
Exactly, Kenpachi is more than just a berserker on the battlefield. In fact, I'd think that the strategic part of battle adds more fun to him.

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then again I haven't really seen it in action since fillers don't count.
No one's fault but your own, OD.
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Old 2008-08-28, 07:23   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
No one's fault but your own, OD.
And not considering the anime as manga canon existence is a fault now? Whatever happened to the anime manga delineation that you argue about all the time again?

just wondering though, anyone mind telling me when has kenpachi shown signs of strategy? As in, not that part where he stood there and waited for someone to stab him. As in, real smart strategy. Seen that being said so many times i never got it.

About matsumoto, that's probably plot device. Though i must say, i personally never considered the situation
in such a light. But it makes alot of sense. Nice points.
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Old 2008-08-28, 07:26   Link #85
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Got me. Apparently he's a very philosophical man and a strategist. And standing there getting slowly but surely mutilated is strategically effective...how exactly?
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Old 2008-08-28, 07:33   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Scep View Post
And not considering the anime as manga canon existence is a fault now? Whatever happened to the anime manga delineation that you argue about all the time again?
There's no reason that Haineko's Shikai would be different in the manga.
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Old 2008-08-28, 11:25   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
There's no reason that Haineko's Shikai would be different in the manga.
Uh yeah it is...

Anime takes from Manga and not the reverse. The anime just figured it would look like that. Kubo didn't say it does.

Lol at your comment Scep. Because of it, I keep picturing Ken-chan as a megame-kun
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Old 2008-08-28, 13:13   Link #88
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Uh yeah it is...

Anime takes from Manga and not the reverse. The anime just figured it would look like that. Kubo didn't say it does.
There's nothing official saying so. Nothing. At all. The anime established what Haineko's Shikai looks like. You're not giving it the credit it deserves.
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Old 2008-08-28, 13:24   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Scep View Post
just wondering though, anyone mind telling me when has kenpachi shown signs of strategy? As in, not that part where he stood there and waited for someone to stab him. As in, real smart strategy. Seen that being said so many times i never got it.
though the situation suited him perfectly, his fight against Tousen using his bankai is a good example imo. I think Kenpachi is potentially more dangerous if he has to think.
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Old 2008-08-28, 13:52   Link #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scep View Post

just wondering though, anyone mind telling me when has kenpachi shown signs of strategy? As in, not that part where he stood there and waited for someone to stab him. As in, real smart strategy. Seen that being said so many times i never got it.
Well, I'm going to bring anime filler into it (*prepares to take red-rep manfully*).

Ichinose, the Bounto loving shinigami, once challenged Zaraki to a fight. Kenpachi agreed, but only if Ichinose could cut him once. So Ichinose released his shikai, which creates a "rainbow haze" of illusionary swords that cannot be blocked or tracked. Zaraki countered by simply ignoring the sword and cutting Ichinose's hands instead, forcing him to drop the blade. In comparison, Ichigo didn't even attempt such a strategy in his fight against Ichinose later. Another example is Zaraki's fight against Noitorra. When he realized that he couldn't cut Noi's steel skin (with eye-patch on), he decided to target the eyes instead.

Zaraki's smart strategies usually aren't hax like Mayuri conveniently placing potions inside Nemu. They're just little things that an experienced fighter does. (Admittedly, two handed ownage was lame. And the maniacal fight enjoyment is slightly insane).

Last edited by Amirali; 2008-08-28 at 15:52.
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Old 2008-08-28, 16:33   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Amirali View Post
Well, I'm going to bring anime filler into it (*prepares to take red-rep manfully*).

Ichinose, the Bounto loving shinigami, once challenged Zaraki to a fight. Kenpachi agreed, but only if Ichinose could cut him once. So Ichinose released his shikai, which creates a "rainbow haze" of illusionary swords that cannot be blocked or tracked. Zaraki countered by simply ignoring the sword and cutting Ichinose's hands instead, forcing him to drop the blade. In comparison, Ichigo didn't even attempt such a strategy in his fight against Ichinose later. Another example is Zaraki's fight against Noitorra. When he realized that he couldn't cut Noi's steel skin (with eye-patch on), he decided to target the eyes instead.

Zaraki's smart strategies usually aren't hax like Mayuri conveniently placing potions inside Nemu. They're just little things that an experienced fighter does. (Admittedly, two handed ownage was lame. And the maniacal fight enjoyment is slightly insane).
Thank god someone else is using critical thinking skills here.

It ain't hard to comprehend people. I know a lot of you don't like Kenpachi but give credit where it is due.

Maybe, it's not as much strategy as it is battle smarts, but Kenpachi is not the idiot half of you think he is.

He has shown it multiple times.

Tousen - Kenpachi used his wits to figure out a strategy to beat his bankai. Nothing was working and Kenpachi had no senses except his touch. So Ken-chan then deduced that he could use his sense of touch to feel when Tousen's sword was nearing him and dodge his strikes. Then he deduced that by letting Tousen hit him he could grab him and attack him. This in effect is how he figured out the secret to Tousen's bankai and beat him easily afterward. If that isn't smarts and strategy, I don't know what is!!!

Nnoitra - Once again, Ken-chan had to find a way around the toughest hierro (skin) of the espadas and a way to defeat a six armed monster. As amirali pointed out, Ken-chan then started aiming for the one weak spot on Nnoi, his eyes! Also, when Kenpachi realized that all else was going to fail, he used his two hand kendo technique.

Ichinose - Yes, it is anime filler but it still further proves a point that Ken-chan is no dummy. I'm not going to go over what amirali said again but I do want to make another related point. The best part about this was Kenpachi making Ichinose look like a fool by totally dispelling how lame and pointless his whole technique was. Ichinose said that his technique would engulf everything in light and dispel all the shadows in the world. Kenpachi then refuted him by telling him that wherever there is light there will always be shadows, baka!!!!!

Kenpachi is awesome. Face Facts!!

Last edited by TeNMaN; 2008-08-28 at 17:13. Reason: correcting myself
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Old 2008-08-29, 04:08   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
There's nothing official saying so. Nothing. At all. The anime established what Haineko's Shikai looks like. You're not giving it the credit it deserves.
It's doesn't have to be official. It never happens!!! That makes it a fact. The anime established in a filler episode what they perceive the Shikai looks like. Kubo didn't create it. So it is not her true release. It was invented by someone else. It's fact that it isn't her Shikai because it has never been shown in the Manga. It never happend
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Old 2008-08-29, 06:52   Link #93
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Strategy, is formulating a best battle plan that lets you win but dosen't put yourself at risk. Standing there and waiting for your opponent to attack you without calculating the possibility that he could kill you in one hit -- that is not strategy, seriously. Its called overreliance on plot armor.

And about the two hands? I don't see how someone who lets himself get cut up like mad and then finally decides to use his stronger move is strong in anyway. Same when he happily allows ichigo to attack him without using the said move. Think that proves that he's awesome and GAR? Think again.You can call it the kubo bleach fighting formula, but it just doesn't reflect well on kenpachi's strategy.

@Thewanderer:
Quote:
There's nothing official saying so. Nothing. At all. The anime established what Haineko's Shikai looks like. You're not giving it the credit it deserves.
But i thought you said in the filler discussion thread.....

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The manga is the perfect place to pretend those events never existed though, because they didn't exist in the manga. But the manga isn't the same as the anime, the rules are different.
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Old 2008-08-29, 07:36   Link #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
It's doesn't have to be official. It never happens!!! That makes it a fact. The anime established in a filler episode what they perceive the Shikai looks like. Kubo didn't create it. So it is not her true release. It was invented by someone else. It's fact that it isn't her Shikai because it has never been shown in the Manga. It never happend
Kubo does not have to think it up for it to be true. That is a fact. It is her true release. It don't matter who "invented" it or how it got in continuity. It's her Shikai because it IS in anime continuity, and I really doubt the manga would change something that's already been established, especially considering that the manga is being directly translated to the anime. You're talking as if Kubo is the one and only official source for anything and everything Bleach and everyone else regardless of status are just fanfiction writers, and that's not true. Not in the least. They wouldn't do anything to mess up continuity like show one thing in the anime, then directly contradict it in the manga. Kubo would look very unprofessional if he decided to do that.

The bottom line is, it happened. Whether you or I like it or not.

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@Thewanderer:
But i thought you said in the filler discussion thread.....

Who the fuck is sabotaging my threads to make me look like an idiot now? I'm the only one not being immoral about this, and someone's being butthurt about it. Heh, this is a pretty mature forum, huh...

If you read the rest of that post, you'll see that the last line totally contradicts everything else. Why the fuck would I say something as pathetic, ignorant, and discriminative as that? Short answer: I wouldn't.
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Old 2008-08-29, 15:31   Link #95
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Originally Posted by Scep View Post
Strategy, is formulating a best battle plan that lets you win but dosen't put yourself at risk. Standing there and waiting for your opponent to attack you without calculating the possibility that he could kill you in one hit -- that is not strategy, seriously. Its called overreliance on plot armor.
LOL, that is just your opinion of what a strategy is!! A strategy can involve using ANY kind of tactic to achieve a goal - in this case winning a battle. That is why there are tons of strategies out there and not just one. Give me a break dude...

It is clear you just don't like Kenpachi. Just accept him for who he is and how he chooses to go about things. Do you want every character in Bleach to think the same way and handle their battles the same way??
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Old 2008-08-29, 19:42   Link #96
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What a hell? I came here to see discussion about newest chapter, and I find a discussion about Kenpachi oO.

But I would like to point up some things that you've discussed. First of all, we all know that he has brains in fight with Tousen. If we are about to analyze other man caught in his bankai, most of them would panic? Well who wouldn't? I would myself go berserk and started screaming around like a maniac. But what he did? MothaFocker enjoyed it instead :/. And yes, in state of panic you certainly couldn't think straight, but he did. He found hole in his fuxing bankai. He used his vitality against his hole. He did had thinkig (just remember when he remembers his comrades and their suggestions).

Ichinose - He is goddamn lame character with lame personality about all the moral thing (personally, I'm fuxing sick of those kind of people...).
Kenpachi actually could manage to make Ichinose snap just with talking (That short monologue is very good) rather than just with fighting.

Nnoitra - Them two are the same. Kendo was the only thing that separated them, along with NoiNoi multiple arms... If we conclude that both of them were screwed up physically... So one really powerfull hit could end it (and Kenpachi said that the joking is over because he could srsly die... do you remember what happened when he fought with ichigo?He joked with him all time along.)


Scep, please don't be sceptical


For a heck of a strategy and tactics, remember that this is SHOUNEN ANIME. I know It's lame, but it's just the way it is. No logic here, gentlemen!
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Old 2008-08-30, 02:18   Link #97
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Who the fuck is sabotaging my threads to make me look like an idiot now? I'm the only one not being immoral about this, and someone's being butthurt about it. Heh, this is a pretty mature forum, huh...

If you read the rest of that post, you'll see that the last line totally contradicts everything else. Why the fuck would I say something as pathetic, ignorant, and discriminative as that? Short answer: I wouldn't.
Meh, don't use such strong language. You're making yourself sound really butthurt And seriously, answering your own rhetoric is just.... nothing short of retarded If a rhetoric doesn't have such a definite answer that you have to clarify it yourself, it just means your rhetoric fails, don't use it.

But back to the topic, meh, you're the only one who thinks its ignorant and discriminative. You think the anime continuity should affect the manga, thats you who is discriminating against the manga reader demographic. Most readers in japan have never seen the anime before. Assuming you can just take from the anime and plonk it into there --> Now thats called being unprofessional.

About kenpachi.

Tousen:- Sure, he did not panic, and that was a good thing. However, his strategy is flawed, thats what im saying. (i was just reading this sentence again, and does anyone think it kinda rhymes ) The thing is, if tousen wasn't such a total idiot who would stand there blabbering about his justice, he would have cut kenpachi's head off in one hit. Or he would have just hammered kenpachi with kidou. Vitality or not, nothing much matters if that happens, does it?

Nnoitra:- I think the vital difference here lies in how he fights. Ichigo's a good example. He didn't place enough priority on winning, and he lost. In fact, he said himself when vs noitora that if it had gone on, he would have died. So like it or not, you can call kenpachi being badass, being a devil, whatever, but you can't really call him a strategist.

Quote:
For a heck of a strategy and tactics, remember that this is SHOUNEN ANIME. I know It's lame, but it's just the way it is. No logic here, gentlemen!
Truer words have never been spoken in this forum
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Old 2008-08-30, 03:53   Link #98
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But back to the topic, meh, you're the only one who thinks its ignorant and discriminative. You think the anime continuity should affect the manga, thats you who is discriminating against the manga reader demographic. Most readers in japan have never seen the anime before. Assuming you can just take from the anime and plonk it into there --> Now thats called being unprofessional.
But it IS ignorant and discriminative. The whole idea of it just sickens me.

And... ME discriminating against the reader demographic? lol, that's like people being intolerant with intolerant people. Of course I'm discriminating against them, because they're the ones who choose this illogical discrimination in the first place. There's nothing moral about it, and it clouds their opinions. It's just blind prejudice, no matter how you look at it.

And where's the logic in the last thing you said? Not acknowledging something because most people don't anyway? That's the epitome of ignorance, IMO.
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